*chops limb off*Guess what WR? I didn't claim that Assault marines are overspecialised
Where did I say you did ? Read the fucking words.
Oh bollocks, like the two or three posts that led to this one don't illustrate a broader whine.I'm specifically commenting on the pro-meelee comments that they would outfit themselves with meelee weapons so as to gain an increased tactical edge..... This even though such an outfit would actually go against Marine tactics and roles
Having a sword doesn't "go against" any marine tactics or roles.
Having a sword doesn't not cause a problem with this, hell, having a powerweapon is like lugging a portable demo-charge/breaching charge around, the battle of Stalinvast has power weapons being used to carve through walls for example.Unless Fifth Edition changed something, Assault Marines were not supposed to be sluggers like Orgyn. They're supposed to be raiders, using their mobility and shock value to destroy pinpoint targets.
Because he CAN, he's a giant superhuman shock-trooper, whose role is to "take the ground", or something similar. Touching on being exposed to firepower, Imperial Armours little tactics skits has them operating in tandem with a demi-squad of tacticals and their vehicle, who suppress the target while the Assault troopers zoom in and mulch the defenders as one approach to their role.its not a why shouldn't he? Its more of a why should he? He can just as easily take on and kill more opponents with his ranged weapon than his meelee, which requires him to go up close, exposing him to enemy firepower and being swarmed under by numbers. Gun-kata so as to speak.
Why "shouldn't" he hack someone up with his "free" sword when he's got the chance ? It plays to his strengths, and if he's in a different situation, well, thats what the plasma rifle his buddy is toting is for. Five blokes with plasma rifles is gratuitous overkill for most things short of a superheavy tank, and the guns themselves aren't overflowing with capacity.
While I freely admit that "add more guns" isn't exactly an unreasonable strategy, I find it unlikely that simply giving larger guns to the small contingent of guys with shorter ranged weapons isn't what you'd call a groundbreaking paradigm shift, and is unlikely to change anything.If so, then simply apply N square law. Or are you going to suggest that doesn't work in WH40k too?
Where the FUCK did I say that ?Except that they don't fight alone and they're not going to simply stand in front of something and take punishment just because you wish so.
Oh, wait, its Painrack, snipping a reply out of context to make a strawman to knock down. I never claimed that space marines dumbly stood in a line and fought, but you've fucking cracked if you think that fighting smart means you escape logistics.
Hell, we weren't even talking about taking "punishment" we were talking about them expending ammunition!
How on earth does holding a chainsword not encumber you? Are we talking about some bizarre human mechanics here?
The same way clamping a bloody boltgun to your chestplate/thigh plate/wherever you want to stick the damn thing doesn't particularly encumber them.
Quote all you like, "being stupid" isn't a requirement for running out of something. Being exposed to more risk than gains is a completely black and white situation, obviously.Being outnumbered and outgunned? Yes. Being stupid enough to get stuck in situations where they run out of ammo or are exposed to more risk than gains? NO. Or do I have to quote the Imperium Tactica back at you from the 2nd edt SM codex?
Is this fucking it ? prattish wibbling about how they should operate more like a modern military, and stop using the silly swords because it doesn't work that way for normal humans ?
Don't think so, your dumbarse comments are usually very memorable.You got the wrong person dude.
I'm pointing out that this appears to be YOUR brainbug, not one of the nebulous "fans". I should point out that, as a fan, smiting the foe with a sword is going to make perfect tactical sense to a space marine if said foe happens to be within arms reach. One of the benefits of being a superhuman dude is that you CAN charge through the enemies fire, shooting accurately as you go, then hack up the bad guys adjacent mates.....Unless your brothers failed to take out that lascannon emplacement or something similar. You aren't particularly encumbered because your role means you aren't going to "need" that boltgun most of the time anyway, which is why you've got the handier pistol version, with its shorter effective range, balanced out by the jump pack, allowing you to avoid enemy firepower more effectively and close to a range which benefits you, not the wimpy dude with the proper gun, who is too busy hiding from your brothers covering fire to shoot your gloriously blazing arse effectively.I'm pointing out that the fan depiction that they MUST deploy meelee weapons because it makes tactical sense is nonsense
Or fuck, you've got two bolt pistols, and you shoot people instead of chopping them up, until you've run out of ammo, then you retreat resupply, or pull out your combat knife/short sword and continue.
Oh shit, theres those damn close combat weapons again.
Frankly, If you've got a problem with some mooks liking the aesthetics of close combat over on spacebattles or wherever the hell this thing crawled up your arse is from, I really wish you'd fuck off back there and moan about it with them and stop constantly referring to the "fans".
I personally would have emphasised "see" myself.We don't EVEN see such meelee weapons being used for the reasons mentioned here.
I'd like you to expand on this comment a little, what specific reasons don't we see melee weapons being used for in 40k ?
I'm not talking to him am I ? Although, yeah, I have read some/all/part of some/all/part of his posts, why don't you go pick some bits out ? I'd suggest not doing that with his last post, where he mentions why melee isn't the first choice of marines, nor is it a combat situation brought on solely by stupidity, as you've decided.Right. Have you even READ Fingolfin statements?
I'm going to come out on a limb here, and defend the Dawn of War opening cinematic. Apart from being designed to showcase the main mechanic of the game - take territory, rather than mine resources - that squad were apparently ordered to take that hill; maybe to plant a landing beacon for the drop pods. Plus, they obviously thought the Dreadnought had dealt with the Orks - they didn't see the 'uge mob over the ridge.
Its still fucking retarded, the Dreadnaught doesn't actually "hit" any orks after the first wave is murdered, what it actually does is, apparently without good reason, rake the entire hill face with fire, stopping short of the top. The charge to take the hill wouldn't have been stupid if these guys were actually space marines, as opposed to weakling morons firing blanks, who got messed up by a band of ork boyz they "should" have messed up without breaking a sweat.
