nBSG: 1/20/06 "Epiphanies" (spoliers obviously)

Battlehymn Republic · Post by **Battlehymn Republic** » 2006-01-22 01:22am

Did anyone else find the Baltar-Six talk in the first ten minutes to be incredibly funny?

...and they ruined it by not making him president. Just having Jumpy McWeaselAccent be the leader of the colonies would have been hilarious.

I also think the irrational peace terrorist movement is simply previously disenfrachised people blowing off steam by blowing up people. With Cain gone, they think they'll have free rein to determine the fate of humanity.

...and they're probably full of Cylons in disguise.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2006-01-22 01:29am

Battlehymn Republic wrote:Did anyone else find the Baltar-Six talk in the first ten minutes to be incredibly funny?

...and they ruined it by not making him president. Just having Jumpy McWeaselAccent be the leader of the colonies would have been hilarious.

[wussy voice while answering the telephone]Hello?[/Baltar]

Metrion Cascade · Post by **Metrion Cascade** » 2006-01-22 03:06am

I figure that Boomer's kid and perhaps all Cylons have some sort of bloodborne antigens, just of a sort that Baltar wouldn't recognize. They must have something, or they'd suffer the same fate as the Martians in WOTW. Since the anthroform Cylons are genetically based on humans, maybe they were all given an immune system deliberately designed to deal with certain well known human illnesses like cancer. It just so happens that if you put Cylon immune cells in humans, they do the same thing to human cancer cells that they would do to Cylon cancer cells.

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2006-01-22 03:28am

This whole ‘peace movement’ thing seems very poorly thought out and comes across as some kind of Freeper strawman view of present day ones.

Considering that the Cylons have just killed 99.999…% of humanity and have been making a great show of trying to kill of the surviving 50,000, it more than strains credibility to suggest that a significant block of the of the survivors would be convinced that it was possible to make peace with the cylons. Never mind having enough people so committed ‘peace’ that they could get together & organise a covert movement with the extensive support network that such groups need. A movement which then seemingly rushes straight into sabotaging their own fleet and ‘martyrdom operations’ before even trying peaceful methods.

The suicide bombing makes no sense either, I’ve never heard of a movement starting off with suicide bombing, a tactic which is opted for out of desperation when other methods have been repeatedly tried and failed. Even then it is rarely used when a timed or remote detonated device could do the job which it easily could have on the refinery ship.

The only way in which it is even vaguely plausible is if the ‘peace movement’ is riven with cylons who have in some way brainwashed the human participants.

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2006-01-22 03:32am

Another question I have about the episode is to do with the nuke, they seem to have very effective sensors for detecting nuclear warheads, wouldn’t they pick up the presence of a nuke on the transport and then in the civilian fleet?

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2006-01-22 03:43am

Plekhanov wrote:Another question I have about the episode is to do with the nuke, they seem to have very effective sensors for detecting nuclear warheads, wouldn’t they pick up the presence of a nuke on the transport and then in the civilian fleet?

I would assume no. If it were an unauthorised nuke on the Galactica, sure. But on 'Cloud nine'? I doubt it. It was a pleasure yaht/agricultural ship. Hardly the type of vessel that would have to worry about nukes.

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2006-01-22 03:49am

Knife wrote:
Plekhanov wrote:Another question I have about the episode is to do with the nuke, they seem to have very effective sensors for detecting nuclear warheads, wouldn’t they pick up the presence of a nuke on the transport and then in the civilian fleet?
I would assume no. If it were an unauthorised nuke on the Galactica, sure. But on 'Cloud nine'? I doubt it. It was a pleasure yaht/agricultural ship. Hardly the type of vessel that would have to worry about nukes.

No i mean why don't the battlestars sensors detect the nuke? They seemed to do so very effectively whenever a raider was carrying them.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2006-01-22 03:55am

Plekhanov wrote:
Knife wrote:
Plekhanov wrote:Another question I have about the episode is to do with the nuke, they seem to have very effective sensors for detecting nuclear warheads, wouldn’t they pick up the presence of a nuke on the transport and then in the civilian fleet?
I would assume no. If it were an unauthorised nuke on the Galactica, sure. But on 'Cloud nine'? I doubt it. It was a pleasure yaht/agricultural ship. Hardly the type of vessel that would have to worry about nukes.
No i mean why don't the battlestars sensors detect the nuke? They seemed to do so very effectively whenever a raider was carrying them.

Internal v external security. I would imagine. Get it past the outside defenses, and you get a free pass inside?

bilateralrope · Post by **bilateralrope** » 2006-01-22 03:55am

Good question.

It could be that the nuke has no radioactive material left in it as someone removed it.

I'm questioning why Baltar still had the nuke after Adama became convinced that the cylon dector didn't work because it didn't detect Sharon

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2006-01-22 04:35am

Knife wrote:
Plekhanov wrote:
Knife wrote: I would assume no. If it were an unauthorised nuke on the Galactica, sure. But on 'Cloud nine'? I doubt it. It was a pleasure yaht/agricultural ship. Hardly the type of vessel that would have to worry about nukes.
No i mean why don't the battlestars sensors detect the nuke? They seemed to do so very effectively whenever a raider was carrying them.
Internal v external security. I would imagine. Get it past the outside defenses, and you get a free pass inside?

I don’t think I’m making myself clear, my point is that in the nBSG universe external sensors seem good at detecting nukes being carried by other ships. This was the stated reason why they adopted the risky plan of the blackbird to taking out the ftl drive on the resurrection ship rather than a more straightforward attack with nuclear armed vipers.

We can assume that nukes can’t easily by concealed otherwise the cylons and humans would both do so for the obvious tactical benefits that would entail. As such we would expect Galactica or Pegusus’s external sensors to detect the nuke when it was on the shuttle and then later on ‘Cloud 9’.

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2006-01-22 04:41am

bilateralrope wrote:Good question.

It could be that the nuke has no radioactive material left in it as someone removed it.

That would be one explanation, you'd expect the 6 in his head to know if he did that though.

I'm questioning why Baltar still had the nuke after Adama became convinced that the cylon dector didn't work because it didn't detect Sharon

Than was puzzling, I know adama has a lot on his mind but nukes are something you wouldn’t just forget about and leave lying about the place, least of all when Baltar’s lab doesn’t seem particularly secure and Galactica only has a small number of nukes.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2006-01-22 04:41am

Plekhanov wrote: I don’t think I’m making myself clear, my point is that in the nBSG universe external sensors seem good at detecting nukes being carried by other ships. This was the stated reason why they adopted the risky plan of the blackbird to taking out the ftl drive on the resurrection ship rather than a more straightforward attack with nuclear armed vipers.

We can assume that nukes can’t easily by concealed otherwise the cylons and humans would both do so for the obvious tactical benefits that would entail. As such we would expect Galactica or Pegusus’s external sensors to detect the nuke when it was on the shuttle and then later on ‘Cloud 9’.

I don't see why. It was a Galactica raptor that delievered the nuke to Cloud Nine under the orders of the Vice president of the Colonies, after all. Exteranl security v internal sercurity.

Nephtys · Post by **Nephtys** » 2006-01-22 05:20am

Awfully small package. ARe we sure it's a nuke or just the core material?

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2006-01-22 05:46am

Knife wrote:
Plekhanov wrote: I don’t think I’m making myself clear, my point is that in the nBSG universe external sensors seem good at detecting nukes being carried by other ships. This was the stated reason why they adopted the risky plan of the blackbird to taking out the ftl drive on the resurrection ship rather than a more straightforward attack with nuclear armed vipers.

We can assume that nukes can’t easily by concealed otherwise the cylons and humans would both do so for the obvious tactical benefits that would entail. As such we would expect Galactica or Pegusus’s external sensors to detect the nuke when it was on the shuttle and then later on ‘Cloud 9’.
I don't see why. It was a Galactica raptor that delievered the nuke to Cloud Nine under the orders of the Vice president of the Colonies, after all. Exteranl security v internal sercurity.

How is ‘internal security’ (what exactly do you mean by that anyway?) going to stop the battlestars’ external sensors from detecting the nuke? As for being delivered “under the orders of the Vice president of the Colonies” are you suggesting that he ordered the transfer through official channels? If not what exactly is your point?

Typhonis 1 · Post by **Typhonis 1** » 2006-01-22 06:32am

Actually the nuke could be a red herring. Baltar may be vice president but without the firing codes the nuke is useless as a weapon unless they can remove the plutonium and make their own device. Even then there could be anti tamper failsafes built into it to keep that from happening.

The cylon blood could also turn out to be bad for Rosyln....it could start acting like a cancer of its own destroying her healthy cells since she isn`t a cylon human.

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2006-01-22 07:27am

Typhonis 1 wrote:Actually the nuke could be a red herring. Baltar may be vice president but without the firing codes the nuke is useless as a weapon unless they can remove the plutonium and make their own device. Even then there could be anti tamper failsafes built into it to keep that from happening.

Maybe the cylons can hack the codes or something with their uber skilz

Chris OFarrell · Post by **Chris OFarrell** » 2006-01-22 08:38am

Does anyone else find it ammusing that Caprica looks suspeciously like Tolana from SG1? In the flashback with the President commenting 'The Stakes are what we decide to make them..."

Clearly they used the same location for the shoot...

GuppyShark · Post by **GuppyShark** » 2006-01-22 08:47am

Presumably the presence of the Colonies' own nuclear warheads do not send their radiological alarms screaming.

Kojiro suggested to me that the Colonial nukes may be IFF-tagged and may not even appear on the Galactica's instruments as they are safely accounted for.

xerex · Post by **xerex** » 2006-01-22 08:50am

Srynerson wrote:Obviously this is speculation, but (a) there may be some part of the fleet's populace that never bought Adama's story about Earth being real, and/or (b) people may be turning skeptical after being stuck on ships for six months. Of course, that doesn't justify Adama not mentioning Earth, but I don't find it implausible that some people would become desperate for a return to normalcy.

when Adama briefly took over werent there reporters asking if the whole Earth deal was a hoax ? Maybe a portion views Earth as a grand lie to maintain Military control.?

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2006-01-22 08:54am

GuppyShark wrote:Presumably the presence of the Colonies' own nuclear warheads do not send their radiological alarms screaming.

Kojiro suggested to me that the Colonial nukes may be IFF-tagged and may not even appear on the Galactica's instruments as they are safely accounted for.

Why on earth would they rig their systems so that all the cylons have to do to get a nuke through unnoticed is spoof a colonial transponder?

It would make rather more sense to have colonial nukes show up on their systems, marked as friendly.

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-01-22 08:55am

Chris OFarrell wrote:Does anyone else find it ammusing that Caprica looks suspeciously like Tolana from SG1? In the flashback with the President commenting 'The Stakes are what we decide to make them..."

Clearly they used the same location for the shoot...

Yeah where is that place supposed to be? Where do they shoot Stargate anyway?

Arrow · Post by **Arrow** » 2006-01-22 09:48am

Nephtys wrote:Awfully small package. ARe we sure it's a nuke or just the core material?

That's a good question. There may not be enough material left for the device actually explode or set off the radiological alarms, but it could still be used for a dirty bomb. A dirty bomb could be easier for these idiots to move around, and setting if off in a ship wouldn't destroy it, but would force that ship's evacuation. Depending on how got the Colonials are at cleaning up radioactive material, it could also force the fleet to abandon that ship.

CDiehl · Post by **CDiehl** » 2006-01-22 11:04am

I think their ability to move the nuclear device around is based on the fact that nobody knows they have it yet, so nobody's looking for it. So far, the nuke has been taken off the Galactica without any sort of alarm being raised, so it seems they don't passively detect nukes. While such a thing might have been standard procedure before the Cylon attack, now, with limited resources, they can't afford to scan every ship and every Raptor flight for nukes just in case. Also, they have no reason to think Baltar would do anything like this. I don't even think anyone making the decisions knows that Baltar is fucking nuts, or else he'd be removed as Vice-President and they'd definitely take away that nuke.

Centurian99 · Post by **Centurian99** » 2006-01-22 11:06am

Maybe the container was shielded in some way?

I totally don't see why people find the "peace movement" unbelievable. Everything we've seen is through the view of the military. So let's review, and skew things a bit, shall we?

Mini-Series:
Galactica is determined to leave the civilians behind, until they change their mind at the last moment and decided to run away from a fight.

Season 1:
33 - Galactica's fighter loses over 1000 civilians after a jump, then destroys the ship when it reappears.

Bastille Day - Galactica storms a ship of civilians without even attempting to negotiate.

Litmus - Galactica's shoddy security and crew allows a Cylon to perform a "martyrdom operation."

Flesh and Bone - Cylon prison is spaced without trial.

Hand of God - Galactica attacks Cylons without warning, to steal supplies. No negotiations are attempted at all.

The entire time Col. Tigh was in charge - Yeah those were high points of the civilian/military relationship.

Final Cut - the whole point of the episode was to show the anti-military feeling in the fleet.

So its been over a month since the Res. Ship was blown up. You've got existing anti-military feeling in the civilian fleet. Then you add someone to the mix who actively wants to organize a "movement." and who's probably skilled at leadership, psychology, and "assymetric warfare." (Remember, she did something to the Pegasus before she was caught.)

Never underestimate the stupidity of humanity.

Braedley · Post by **Braedley** » 2006-01-22 11:23am

Vympel wrote:
Chris OFarrell wrote:Does anyone else find it ammusing that Caprica looks suspeciously like Tolana from SG1? In the flashback with the President commenting 'The Stakes are what we decide to make them..."

Clearly they used the same location for the shoot...
Yeah where is that place supposed to be? Where do they shoot Stargate anyway?

Damn you Chris for beating me to the punch.

Both shows are shot in Vancouver, and a quick look at Simon Fraser University's website shows that this is the location for said scenes. I always assumed those scenes were shot at a university in or around Vancouver, but I never really had a reason to check. Actually I grabbed this picture from their site.

As for the episode, I think it was so-so, but it's hard to follow an episode like Resurection Ship.