Most Repulsive Sci-Fi

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-11-19 06:51am

And yes, please no further discussion of Gor beyond the reference to it's name. If you feel you must 'vote' for it, say 'Gor' and nothing more. Though really, the series does not compare in is hideousness with 40K.

Kitsune · Post by **Kitsune** » 2005-11-19 10:37am

I just simply did not want to use thr "G" word because I was told earlier it can be a way that this site will be found through google searches and the likes.

So, it sounds like many people consider Earhammer 40K to be the worst followed by the Draka society.

So do people consider the "Starship Trooper" society to be repulsive or just imperfect but no so bad?

Trytostaydead · Post by **Trytostaydead** » 2005-11-19 11:10am

Could someone provide a bit more specific reasons why 40k is so hideous? I know almost nothing about the series except it has some cool artwork.

Sidewinder · Post by **Sidewinder** » 2005-11-19 11:49am

ggs wrote:Xeelee-verse.

Interesting place to read about, but when you see things like;
We are already dead. It's our duty to be dead. A brief life burns brightly
It shows how horrify such a civilization is.

Forgive me if I sound like an ignoramus, but the description of the Xeelee reminds me of the Necromongers from 'Chronicles of Riddick'-- a sci-fi race just barely better than the various tentacle demons in H-anime. (There are worse things than death, after all-- such physical and emotional violation would be one of them.)

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2005-11-19 11:50am

Trytostaydead wrote:Could someone provide a bit more specific reasons why 40k is so hideous? I know almost nothing about the series except it has some cool artwork.

Authoritarian, superstitious, xenophobic, genocidal, and at war with most of the rest of the galaxy. Despite the existence of high technology, many of its worlds are technologically backward. In many places, the average citizen lives a life of squaler. The system is monstrously ruthless with the lives of its own citizens, enslaving and consuming many. Its feudal nature means it may share the worst traits of facism, but none of the advantages a massive government could provide. For the most part the various organs of government are intersted in purging, controlling, and making use of its people, not their welfare. Corruption, self serving policies, and incompetence are common among high officials.

Examples might be helpful. The largest institution for treating combat fatigued Imperial soldiers converts all the ones they can't rehabilitate into combat servitors, cyborgs that have had many of their brainfunctions destroyed so they are essentially organic robots. An unlucky few might dimly remember what it was like to have full, human mental faculties.

Xon · Post by **Xon** » 2005-11-19 11:59am

Sidewinder wrote:Forgive me if I sound like an ignoramus, but the description of the Xeelee reminds me of the Necromongers from 'Chronicles of Riddick'-- a sci-fi race just barely better than the various tentacle demons in H-anime. (There are worse things than death, after all-- such physical and emotional violation would be one of them.)

These arent the Xeelee I'm talking about, but Xeelee-verse humanity. The Xeelee themselves dont give a shit about humans. Like most people dont give a shit about a colony of ants which get crushed when a mega-building of significant value is being constructed.

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2005-11-19 12:07pm

The Xeelee are quite nice to humanity considering that humanity tried to exterminate them.

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2005-11-19 12:13pm

Imperial Overlord wrote:The Xeelee are quite nice to humanity considering that humanity tried to exterminate them.

Yup, they may even lt Humanity out of the cube once they finish moving to their new universe.
They never attacked the humans aggresively and only launched an offense when the Humans endangered the first race to come into existence (The Baryonic things that created an ark a few milliseconds into the universes existence)

Xon · Post by **Xon** » 2005-11-19 01:18pm

DEATH wrote:
Imperial Overlord wrote:The Xeelee are quite nice to humanity considering that humanity tried to exterminate them.
Yup, they may even lt Humanity out of the cube once they finish moving to their new universe.
They never attacked the humans aggresively and only launched an offense when the Humans endangered the first race to come into existence (The Baryonic things that created an ark a few milliseconds into the universes existence)

Nope. Apparently, they only really get anoyed with humanity when the laws of physics for the entire universe get changed due to some really stupid actions by humanity.

I havent read the latest Xeelee book (still waiting for it to show up, fucking shipping times), but some minor spoilers I've seen show some rather far-reaching changes as a result of Xeelee-humanity's actions in Exultant.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2005-11-19 01:50pm

how about Amber and Choas where destroying an entire universe is just something you do as a prank against your cousin.

Sidewinder · Post by **Sidewinder** » 2005-11-19 02:04pm

DEATH wrote:
Imperial Overlord wrote:The Xeelee are quite nice to humanity considering that humanity tried to exterminate them.
Yup, they may even lt Humanity out of the cube once they finish moving to their new universe.
They never attacked the humans aggresively and only launched an offense when the Humans endangered the first race to come into existence (The Baryonic things that created an ark a few milliseconds into the universes existence)

I haven't read any of the Xeelee books yet, so can you tell me if it's one of those "humans are evil, they're destroying the universe, they must be destroyed to save the universe" stories that killed any and all interest I had in sci-fi, outside of 'Star Wars' and various manga and anime?

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-11-19 02:06pm

Sidewinder wrote:I haven't read any of the Xeelee books yet, so can you tell me if it's one of those "humans are evil, they're destroying the universe, they must be destroyed to save the universe" stories that killed any and all interest I had in sci-fi, outside of 'Star Wars' and various manga and anime?

Nah, it's, AFAIK, the humans deciding they've had enough of being stepped on by all the uber-aliens, and going beserk, then getting stepped on by bigger aliens.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2005-11-19 02:10pm

Erm... I thought this was "most repulsive science-fiction", not "most repulsive science-fiction setting".

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-11-19 02:13pm

The Yosemite Bear wrote:how about Amber and Choas where destroying an entire universe is just something you do as a prank against your cousin.

Those are Fantasy, no?

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-11-19 02:16pm

Peregrin Toker wrote:Erm... I thought this was "most repulsive science-fiction", not "most repulsive science-fiction setting".

Much the same thing, no? Or the Draka would be ineligable for entry, because their author doesn't attempt to promote them as good in the way some other authors do their horrible societies. (*Glances at the aformentioned shame to all BDSM enthusiasts everywhere*)

In the same way, the Daleks from Dr Who are objectively worse than the Imperium of Man by far (mostly because they're actually competant) but the setting isn't nearly as screwed up, because in the end, they're taken down, and they're not one of the best factions in the setting.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2005-11-19 02:33pm

NecronLord wrote:In the same way, the Daleks from Dr Who are objectively worse than the Imperium of Man by far (mostly because they're actually competant) but the setting isn't nearly as screwed up, because in the end, they're taken down, and they're not one of the best factions in the setting.

Speaking of how the Imperium objectively just is a lesser evil, am I the only one who notices that the Tau Empire, who frequently are seen as the "goodest guys" in 40K are, if anything else, a hybrid of Stalinism and the Hindu caste system?

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-11-19 02:48pm

No, you're not. They are indeed pretty awful by modern standards.

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » 2005-11-19 04:45pm

That the point - the nicest bunch in 40k is probably worse than Stalinist Russia. While the Tau do have this strange concept of 'integration' and 'cooperation' if you don't cooperate they'll invade your planet.

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2005-11-19 11:55pm

Wait, the Slaan (descendants of the old ones) live on non death worlds with moderate technology, almost no chaos attraction and in a hunter society that does not involve cannibalism.
Do they count? Or are they too small

dworkin · Post by **dworkin** » 2005-11-20 03:06am

Oceania (1984) is a pretty damn crappy place to live.

There's no chance of high tech at all. In fact there's not much chance of a new shaving razor.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2005-11-20 03:11am

also on the lines of Oceania David Drake's "Lacey Verse" which is a prequel verse to hammer's slammers. thought control, monitoring, and like the clockwork orange they take the most sadistic and inventive criminals and make them the cops.....

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-11-20 03:12am

dworkin wrote:Oceania (1984) is a pretty damn crappy place to live.

There's no chance of high tech at all. In fact there's not much chance of a new shaving razor.

Indeed. The description of that world was one of the few times I have been genuienly frightened by fiction, especially the dissertation on the purpose of Oceania, and what they do to non-conformers.

Morilore · Post by **Morilore** » 2005-11-20 03:13am

dworkin wrote:Oceania (1984) is a pretty damn crappy place to live.

There's no chance of high tech at all. In fact there's not much chance of a new shaving razor.

Is 1984 really sci-fi?

At any rate, remember scale. 1984 makes life shitty for one planet of a few billion people. Warhammer 40k makes life shitty for a million planets with billions of people each.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2005-11-20 03:23am

Also note the wars that got hammer and his boys their jobs and positions was actually started by a group of scientists and non conformists literially going underground, and starting the violent overthrow of the establishment with powerguns, fusion reactors, and nuclear weapons.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2005-11-20 04:07am

Morilore wrote:
dworkin wrote:Oceania (1984) is a pretty damn crappy place to live.

There's no chance of high tech at all. In fact there's not much chance of a new shaving razor.
Is 1984 really sci-fi?

Well, the technology described in 1984 is far beyond what was described when the book was written - for example, the surveillance technology is far beyond what they had in the late 1940s and helicopters were still fairly rare back then.