Can you really conquer a planet?

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2004-07-06 04:32pm

I realize that with Star Wars level technology planetary assualts are simply a matter of hanging back with Stardestroyers and bombing a world into submission, but with far less tech advanced cultures is it really feasible to attack and capture a planet?

The way I see it is that you need a MASSIVE number of troops to assault and take a world much less hold it in occupation. I mean how do you effectively occupy 5 billion people.

I know you could simply bomb a world into submission with nukes but then again you've just ruined that world so whats the point in holding it? I'm talking about your basic conquest where you want or need a world and so you must take it and hold it relatively intact. Is it feasible that one world can assult another?

For instance, say a culture that is on a level of advancemnet like the movie MI in Starship troopers or Space above and beyond. If they tried to take and hold our Earth of now, is it possible?

Would plantary conquests need the resources of a multi world alliance or Empire to pull off?

Post by **Lagmonster** » 2004-07-06 04:40pm

It depends on the planetary population and their attitudes. Look at the Battle of Hastings, for example - it doesn't take much of an armed force to destroy the defences of, and render leaderless, a larger population, especially if that population lacks the wherewithall or gumption to fight back except as minimal resistance groups.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2004-07-06 04:40pm

Stravo wrote:I realize that with Star Wars level technology planetary assualts are simply a matter of hanging back with Stardestroyers and bombing a world into submission, but with far less tech advanced cultures is it really feasible to attack and capture a planet?

The way I see it is that you need a MASSIVE number of troops to assault and take a world much less hold it in occupation. I mean how do you effectively occupy 5 billion people.

I know you could simply bomb a world into submission with nukes but then again you've just ruined that world so whats the point in holding it? I'm talking about your basic conquest where you want or need a world and so you must take it and hold it relatively intact. Is it feasible that one world can assult another?

For instance, say a culture that is on a level of advancemnet like the movie MI in Starship troopers or Space above and beyond. If they tried to take and hold our Earth of now, is it possible?

Would plantary conquests need the resources of a multi world alliance or Empire to pull off?

I think would very hard if not impossible to control an Earth like planet unless you many planets to draw troop from. Since Earth has population in billions and you control every major population center at least to control a planet

Black Admiral · Post by **Black Admiral** » 2004-07-06 04:48pm

It depends on the universe TBH.

For example, in the Honorverse, you're allowed, with sufficient provocation and up to a point, to use kinetic strikes as a method of dealing with uprisings.

beyond hope · Post by **beyond hope** » 2004-07-06 04:56pm

Rather than use nukes, you could drop a sufficiently large mass (asteroids or something) from orbit to replicate their effects.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-07-06 05:08pm

The most efficient way to subjugate a planet is to seize control of its existing government via threat of orbital bombardment at best or invasion at worst. That way, you can use its existing security apparatus and bureaucracy to maintain control without needless bloodshed.

Or, you could use the American method and tear down all existing institutions, allow chaos to reign, and then attempt to slowly build them back up again in the ensuing vacuum

Zor · Post by **Zor** » 2004-07-06 05:34pm

Whell, here is an Idea of mine for conquoring a planet.

You bring in a capital ship into orbit, then you fire Either railgun rounds or Kenetic kill missles at the surface into the centers of major cities. Assume air superiority as soon as posible. After a day or two, begin to dump Paratroopers or MI type drop from orbit troopers down onto the planet's surface, along with at least 300% there number of dumby troops as well. These are to be Heavaly armed elitly trained soldiers armed with Assault Rifles, Machine guns (Squad level), RPG launchers, AA missle launchers, There job is to nutrilize any resistance quickly. I say 1 soldier for every 1,000 people, so a world with 5 billion people will need 5 million soldiers. More soldiers will arive as needed. Then we begin to hand out food, stop crime, assist in rebuilding and offer medical care to wonded civilians, as we rebuild the planet in our own image.

DocHorror · Post by **DocHorror** » 2004-07-06 06:04pm

Obviously its possible to conquer a planet, since we have loads of examples of planets actually being conquered in sci-fi. However if you don't choose to go the bombing-them-into-the-dust-from-high-orbit route I reckon you'd need to have either a pretty huge army, or a very good one.

If you have a large army you can just swamp them with numbers, wipe out their resistence and hold the planet in an iron grip.

Or you could use your very good army to perform surgical strikes at the enemy's high command and then use propaganda to win over the leaderless masses.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2004-07-06 06:05pm

Zor wrote:Whell, here is an Idea of mine for conquoring a planet.

You bring in a capital ship into orbit, then you fire Either railgun rounds or Kenetic kill missles at the surface into the centers of major cities. Assume air superiority as soon as posible. After a day or two, begin to dump Paratroopers or MI type drop from orbit troopers down onto the planet's surface, along with at least 300% there number of dumby troops as well. These are to be Heavaly armed elitly trained soldiers armed with Assault Rifles, Machine guns (Squad level), RPG launchers, AA missle launchers, There job is to nutrilize any resistance quickly. I say 1 soldier for every 1,000 people, so a world with 5 billion people will need 5 million soldiers. More soldiers will arive as needed. Then we begin to hand out food, stop crime, assist in rebuilding and offer medical care to wonded civilians, as we rebuild the planet in our own image.

Good job you just;

Destroyed an existing bureaucracy.
Killed half the population.
Gave the people every incentive to resist you.

You're pulling Iraq on a larger scale, and it would drain more resources than you could hope to get back.

Zor · Post by **Zor** » 2004-07-06 06:19pm

Ok, New plan

Come into orbit with a capital ship, use KKMs or Railguns to destroy major military bases, Jam comunications, Asssume air superiority as quickly as posible. Send down Elite, Heavly armed Paratroopers or MI type troopers down on Urban areas. One soldier for every 1,000 natives.

Military strike force Ubjectives
1-Nutrilize any reminants of the enemy army
2-Force the government to surrender
3-Keep Civilian causilties down a minimum

Once the government is overthrown, begin rebuilding planet's infastruture in our own image.

Is that plan better?

Super-Gagme · Post by **Super-Gagme** » 2004-07-06 06:27pm

DocHorror wrote:Obviously its possible to conquer a planet, since we have loads of examples of planets actually being conquered in sci-fi.

And here we have conclusive proof. Thank you Science Fiction.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2004-07-07 12:59am

Kill most of the people with intense radiation bombardment, to the point where the few remaining stragglers won't be able to do much at all, then move in and colonize later. The natural resources will still be there, with little to no security risk from insurgents whatsoever. Granted, the labor pool will be gone, but I imagine the morale boost from being able to freely breed like crazy for awhile could very well make up for it.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-07-07 01:24am

If you are conquering a planet, you want to avoid at all costs killing alot of the population. Remember, there are few good reasons to invade a planet and it's a very expensive venture. The only way to make a planetary invasion worthwhile is by keeping its infrastructure intact. Consider that in any high tech civilization, the population of the planet is the most important part of the infrastructure, killing them will make the planet useless to you. It means you have to import your own people to fill roles in the complex strata of infrastructure on top of the material resources destroyed, which means large complex planning, relocation of your own citizens from elsewhere, buildinga new bureaucracy from the ground up... it's not worth it. Best to kick out the top heads of state and military and replace them (under threat of megadeath assault) and take over management of the existing infrastructure.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-07-07 01:27am

Uraniun235 wrote:Kill most of the people with intense radiation bombardment, to the point where the few remaining stragglers won't be able to do much at all, then move in and colonize later. The natural resources will still be there, with little to no security risk from insurgents whatsoever. Granted, the labor pool will be gone, but I imagine the morale boost from being able to freely breed like crazy for awhile could very well make up for it.

Why would you do that? You can get resources anywhere, space is filled with uninhabited asteroids and planets. Plus, there is even more living space out there that doesn't involve the massive costs of interstellar war and you don't have a mega or gigadeath crime on your hands that you have to justify to your own population.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2004-07-07 01:34am

Put several large asteroids in orbit, and push one of them down towards crashing into the planet with enough speed to cause massive damage

Then at the last minute, either destroy the asteroid or put it back into orbit.

Let the world governments know they know work for you, or you start dropping asteroids on them.

Since you just demonstrated not only your ability to drop the asteroids, as well as neutralize them if they give in, they should fold quickly.

Now, start slowly feeding in non-military technology the locals will like you for, i.e medical technology improvements, followed by creature comforts

So a good plot-line to conquer Earth would be

1- Park asteroids into orbit
2- Lob one at Earth
3- Completely destroy (i.e ESB asteroid shot) it before it hits the ground, or simply pull it back into orbit
4- Inform the world who's the boss now.
5- Let the local authorities deal with the civilian uprising
6- Once the uprising is done go 'Hey, I never said I was like the current governments I need to run this place. I actually care. As proof, here's the cure for all forms of Cancer. Behave, and next year, I'll give you the cure for HIV, AIDS and a variety of other STDs. And to keep you entertained in the meantime, I present you with VR suits that will let you play your favour 3D video games in realtime, any of these many new ones I'm giving you"
7- Hand the governments of the world your restructuring plan.

Either that, or addict the hole planet to a chemical/substance only you can provide (ala the Changelings control of the Jem'ha'dar), or pollute the water-table with a chemical that makes everyone compliant and obident.
(various Sci-Fi franchises, including how my version of the Empire from Darktales (see the timeline in the Fanfici Archive) controlled the galaxy)

Or my personal favourite if you have the technology

Beam up major population centers, brainwash them, repeat until done

It IS possible to conquer a planet without alot of bloodshed, you just have to get creative with it

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2004-07-07 01:45am

The high tech ones make sense but what about a low tech futuristic society by that I mean something like the movie MI's, The Colonial Marines in Aliens or Space Above and Beyond? They are high tech enough to have routine space exploration and superior weaponary but not magical tech like trasnports and the like. In a way forcing a direct confrontation but even with that tech edge would they be forced to use the resources of several worlds to take and hold a prize like Earth?

18-Till-I-Die · Post by **18-Till-I-Die** » 2004-07-07 01:57am

What about massive EMP strikes? E-bomb them back to the stone age. Then land, take over, and start over from scratch. Yeah it's not to great, but it would work wouldnt it.

Or, if you have huge numbers of men and equipment, just send a massive wave of assualt ships down all at once. Could you imagine tens or hundreds of thousands of Republic Assault Ships landing all over the world simultainiously.

And of course, droping a few asteroids from orbit or some primary beams wont hurt. Maybe melt a few cities into molten slag and people will see the futility of resistance, if only to save their own lives.

I've used all of these ideas before, really.

beyond hope · Post by **beyond hope** » 2004-07-07 02:05am

Throwing such a large quantity of troops at a world to be conquered would probably be counterproductive. You have to provide enough supplies for them in transit, and unless the planet is sparsely populated you'll be adding quite a burden on resources like available food supplies (assuming you can eat what the locals grow at all.)

SWPIGWANG · Post by **SWPIGWANG** » 2004-07-07 02:53am

How hard it is to take a planet depends on defenses, objective, technology, logstics, and psychology. The sheer number in terms of population means little in itself.

There are trillions of ants on this planet, but that matters not as they don't organize into legions and build tanks. How well the population can resist the invasion depends on how fast weapons are build, how difficult are they to destory, how organized and motivate they are, and how much control one intends to press on the population.

Remember, there are few good reasons to invade a planet and it's a very expensive venture. The only way to make a planetary invasion worthwhile is by keeping its infrastructure intact.

The best infrastructure is the planet itself. Its favorable geology, climate and such can be valuable enough in itself to be worth taking.

If there are nice planets with 3vil ali3ns on it, lets K1LL TH3/\/\ 4LL.... muhahahaha

Post by **NecronLord** » 2004-07-07 03:17am

Gil Hamilton wrote:have a mega or gigadeath crime on your hands

AKA Genocide.

Currald · Post by **Currald** » 2004-07-07 03:45am

I agree that your objective will help to determine your approach. Look at the European invasion of North America for a possible model. The Natives turned out to be rather useless as slave labor, as they died too quickly when subjected to plantation slavery. This made them surplus population, as far as the European powers were concerned. They systematically eliminated the Native Americans while establishing their own infrastructure (with elements liberally borrowed from the Iraquois) onto the land. While the various colonies eventually attained sovereignty, the Americas are still culturally very European in their make-up. The invasion was a success.

Any planetary invasion where the population prove themselves to be insufficiently useful, either through inability or unwillingness to comply with the invader's demands, could be dealt with similarly.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-07-07 04:35am

1. Use laser weapons to vaporize tanks and other armour from orbit.
2. Do the same for enemy aircraft.
3. Land light forces and paratroopers around space ports.
4. Capture space ports.
5. Land heavy armour and assault forces using captured space ports.
6. The enemy has no tanks so you armour will have a free reign.

The Nomad · Post by **The Nomad** » 2004-07-07 05:02am

I think that a civilization capable of interstellar travel should have the means to contain civilian uprisings : there is the possibility of using electromagnetic or sonic devices to contain riots, drug/brainwash the population, threaten and take hostages... as well as using space supremacy so as to crush ennemy forces and supporting your occupation army beyond the reach of sub-military opponents.

Thus, if properly done, planetary conquest and occupation is perfectly possible IMHO. Just very difficult and expensive. A careful assessment of the assets and liabilities of such an operation is necessary.

Pu-239 · Post by **Pu-239** » 2004-07-07 05:47am

What about a long term subtle takeover? Land a bunch of agents/their families down, manipulate financial/gov records to conceal them, and over time have them run for office/join the military, manipulating records as necessary to give required credentials, and assasinations of some to speed the process. Do this for all major nations, then start wars with smaller nations after one controls all major nations. No nation will object, since you control all of them. Then slowly cut down military spending when things have become "safe" enough. Finally, openly invade, and have the governments accept this.

Attempt to keep civilians happy obviously.

Of course, you could depopulate a planet like Uraniun said if you want space to colonize. The slow invasion technique is more if you want to utilize industry (cannot use slavery though since this would cause general uprising, in which case you might as well have landed shitloads of troops), or gain control for long term strategic purposes.

Zac Naloen · Post by **Zac Naloen** » 2004-07-07 08:15am

I like the slow take over idea, An interstellar race is unlikely to be in any rush, they could theoretically spend a couple of decades destabilising the planet. Then the Race comes in with promise of world peace etc. Except they essentially end up taking over the planet. I mean, sure there is gonna be some resistance, but it will be minimal.

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Can you really conquer a planet?

Can you really conquer a planet?

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