Grand 40K Quantification Thread

SF: discuss futuristic sci-fi series, ideas, and crossovers.

Moderator: NecronLord

Post Reply
User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27382
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Grand 40K Quantification Thread

Post by NecronLord »

Last edited by NecronLord on 2006-05-22 01:35pm, edited 4 times in total.
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27382
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Post by NecronLord »

Introduction & Statistical Notes:

Introduction of the Introduction:
The idea behind this thread is to both serve as something of a 40K tech-FAQ, and to provide an accessible resource showing calculations and sources for various aspects of technology in the Warhammer 40,000 universe. Obviously, the reason this is being done on SDN is to solicit calculations from the rest of our abundant 40K-reading population. Eventually, I hope to have quantifications of practically every weapon and device explicitly mentioned in the setting from the various descriptions of their effects.

Canon:
The ‘rules’ of canonicity as they stand so far are that fluff supersedes game-statistics, and that new products supersede old ones.

Where contradictions occur, they should, for the purposes of this thread, be included as upper and lower limits, with a note on the modal numbers for each: for example, if roughly cotemporaneous heights are given for the same class of titan, all should be included, with an aside on the number which is used most often.

Format:
At the moment, I think the format is very inclusive, though I can insert and rearrange posts on this board, the procedure for doing so is time consuming in the extreme, so I’d rather stick with this one unless someone points out a serious flaw or omission.

Conclusion of the Introduction:
So, in conclusion, please feel free to post with links, quotations, and calculations, and I’ll edit them into the appropriate post.

---

Units of Measure:
Where appropriate, in this thread, units of measure given in-universe will be assumed to be equal to their modern equivalents. An Adeptus Mechanicus Watt will be assumed to be the same as an-derived SI Watt. Those units that have multiple modern interpretations, such as League, will be assumed to be the UK (40K is after all, mostly written in Great Britain) standard. Obscure units, such as League, will be converted into metric where possible, with annotations showing the derivation of this conversion.

Megathules: A contentious issue, I generally assume this to be a corrupted spelling of megajoules, given the existence of Watts in-universe. Others may vary, and I hope to derive performance-based measures of the power of lasguns, rather than relying on the megathule quote.

---

Sample Calculation:
Imperial Plasma Pistol Firepower:
Harlequin – Ian Watson, 2002 paperback edition, Black Library, Page 8:
“Olafson’s last sight could hardly be claimed to be the discharge of this pistol [a plasma pistol] that sight was far too blinding and all-consuming. Already the sun-hot plasma had vaporised Olafson’s eyes, his face, his whole head. […] The headless corpse lay…”

Average weight of a human head: 4.5 Kg upwards source.
Heat of Vaporisation (water): 2,260 kJ/kg
Assuming the head is entirely water, we get a lower limit firepower of 10,305 kJ per shot from this quote.

---

Repetition:
To avoid repetition, weapons and equipment used by multiple races in the same form will be categorised thus:
Eldar technology used by multiple factions will be listed under ‘Craftworld Eldar’
Imperial technology used by multiple factions will be listed under ‘Imperial Guard’

---

Inhabitable Planets:

Unless otherwise stated, inhabited planets will be assumed, for the ease of calculation, to be similar to earth in air pressure, size, gravity, composition, orbit and so forth.
Last edited by NecronLord on 2008-06-01 12:12pm, edited 7 times in total.
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27382
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Post by NecronLord »

General Notes on the Setting & Technology:
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27382
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Post by NecronLord »

General Technology: Power Sources & Storage Devices :
---
Power Generators:
---
Plasma Reactors, Imperium of Man:
Excecution Hour - Gordon Rennie, Black Library, Page 18
"At the magos's command, the truly stellar levels of energy contained within the ship's [speaking of an Imperial Navy] cruiser plasma reactors were released into the warp engines"

This would imply a power output on the order of 3.86e+26 watts, the sun's output, however, there are smaller stars, and an output so high does not match with observed energy outputs of Imperial ships, generally on the order of e20 watts or slightly higher, as in the example of the nova cannon, which requires a reactor outputting at least 1.54e21 watts in order to operate. Stars mostly white dwarves, exist with luminosities in the e20 W range, so while this quote is certainly accurate, it does not necesserily prove anything about the output of the ship's reactors.
---
Necron Power Generation:
Battlefleet Gothic Magazine #2 - Various, Fanatic Press, necrons article, inset box.
"Closing on unidentified spatial anomaly EXK99-0002. Distance 10,000... 9,000... 8,000.. Wait... that's odd... augers are starting to detect energy fluctuations... <subject gasps> by the Emperor... that's impossible these readings are off the scale! ABORT, get us out of here n..."

Final message, research craft God's Eye."

Necron vessel (unless the God's Eye had the misfortune to run into something else, say, a necron space station) power supplies can be assumed to be beyond those of their Imperium of Man equivalents by at least one order of magnitude. Possibly several, given the shock evidenced here at observing the power readings.
Last edited by NecronLord on 2006-05-23 12:42pm, edited 7 times in total.
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27382
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Post by NecronLord »

General Technology: Travel Speeds & Communications Efficacy:
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27382
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Post by NecronLord »

General Technology: Industry & Scope of Operations:
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27382
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Post by NecronLord »

General Technology: Other/Miscellaneous Information:
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27382
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Post by NecronLord »

By Race: Chaos:
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27382
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Post by NecronLord »

By Race: Eldar (Craftworld):
Combat Equipment, Personal:
---
Warp Spider Jump Generator:
Codex Eldar - Various, 2001 edition (40K Third Edition), Games Workshop, Page 6
"their warp generators set him and the squad a hundred yards behind the nearest of their adversaries, within the shelter of the ruins of an old human building; its walls long since crumbled with time."
The Warp Spiders here have jumped away from a quad of humans (who have just been killed). It seems safe to assume from this that the range of the jump generators is not less than 100 yards (91.44 m).
---
Weapons:
---
Ranger Long Rifle:
Codex Tau - Various, First Edition, Games Workshop, Page 49
Source
This weapon appears, if we assume Kroot to have a similar water content to humans, to have at least between five and eight megajoules per shot. Not counting overpenetration. It should be noted that the long rifle contains various pieces of complicating targeting gear, and may have a lower firepower than comparable weapons because of this, and its potentially longer range.
Last edited by NecronLord on 2006-05-23 11:39am, edited 2 times in total.
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27382
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Post by NecronLord »

By Race: Eldar (Dark):
Weapons:
---
Dark Lance:
Codex: Dark Eldar - Various, 2001 edition (40K Third Edition), Games Workshop, Page 35
"Its primary function is to destroy heavily armoured targets. [...] more than capable of destroying any vehicle regardless of the thickness of its armour, or totally vapourising a foot soldier."
The Dark Lance must have more than 120,000 Kj per shot to achieve this feat. Most likely far more, well into the gigajoule range, when we account for the overpenetration and semi-explosive nature of this weapon, compared to the controlled 'stripping' of the gauss flayer.
Last edited by NecronLord on 2006-05-22 08:56am, edited 1 time in total.
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27382
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Post by NecronLord »

By Race: Eldar (Other):
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27382
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Post by NecronLord »

By Race: Imperium (Adeptus Mechanicus):
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27382
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Post by NecronLord »

By Race: Imperium (Imperial Guard):
---
Combat Equipment, Personal:
---
Caves of Ice - Sandy Mitchell, Black Library, Page 132
Valhallan comm bead minimum range in blizzard conditions is 300m.
---
Caves of Ice - Sandy Mitchell, Black Library, Page 158
Valhallan comm beads can be used to subvocalise.
---
Caves of Ice - Sandy Mitchell, Black Library, Page 179
Valhallan comm beads (and those in the Gaunt's books) can be located by tracking their carrier wave.
---
Armoured Vehicles:
---
Leman Russ Conquerer(?):
Gaunt's Ghosts: Honour Guard - Dan Abnett, Black Library, Page 174
"Re-laying the gun took a vital second. In that time, the second tank fired again and hit the Wrath squarely. The impact was enough to lurch all sixty-two tonnes of armoured machine several metres sideways. But it didn't penetrate the twenty centimetre-thick armour skin. Inside, the crew were dazed and they'd lost most of the forward scopes."

This seems to indicate that a Leman Russ can handily survive impactors with hundreds of thousands of Kg*m/s. Kinetic energy would be between seventy and one thousand megajoules.
---
Weapons:
---
Conquerer Cannon:
Gaunt's Ghosts: Honour Guard - Dan Abnett, Black Library, Pages 182 & 183
"When it fired, the breech of the main gun hurtled back into the turret space with one hundred and ninety tonnes of recoil force."
This weapon could project a 500 Kg projectile with four gigajoules of kinetic energy and close to two million newtons of force.
---
Earthshaker:
The projectiles of this weapon are believed (source check, Honour Guard?) to have a mass of three tons, and create 15 meter (radius or diameter?) craters.
---
Lasgun
---
Storm of Iron - Graham Mcneill, Black Library, Page 208
"Hawke fired a hail of las-bolts, ripping the man's chest to bloddy ruin"

A generous (low end) estimate of 20 shots gives an estimated firepower of (low end) 1.2 megajoules here. It is important to remember that lasguns have a high and low setting. The oft-quoted 19 "megathules" would persumably be the maximum per-pulse setting.
Source Thread This is a post from a debate thread, but calcs are in there.
---
Caves of Ice - Sandy Mitchell, Black Library, Pages 55 & 56
"I took a glance around the chamber. It looked bigger from down here, and the hail of las bolts had melted a number of small pits into the walls. Something seemed to be embedded in one, and I tried to focus on it, to stop my head spinning.
[...]
It was a human hand, severed at the wrist, the stump scored with viscious bite marks."

Blasting a pit of the required depth and width requires something between 122 Kj and 2.2 Mj
Source Thread
---
Caves of Ice - Sandy Mitchell, Black Library, Page 97
"A las bolt burst against the roof of the thing's [an Ambull's] mouth, blowing a large chunk of brain matter backwards which clung to the frozen wall, solidifying like an obsecne outgrrowth as the creature toppled backwards."

A number of assumptions, based of the RT era models and novel descriptions of Ambulls, place this instance of lasgun firepower at around 2.7 megajoules
Source Thread
---
Caves of Ice - Sandy Mitchell, Black Library, Page 159
Lasguns can be fired fully automatic, one handed. This indicates almost negligable recoil. This contradicts other sources, especially the lasguns used by the Tanith First.
---
Caves of Ice - Sandy Mitchell, Black Library, Page 159
A shot from a laspistol and a lasgun blow away most of an ork's head. Assuming cauterisation occurs (likely, no blood mentioned) and that an Ork head masses around 10-15 kilos ("Ghostmaker" indicates that ork heads are about twice the size of a human's, and this is conservative: head mass generally represents 7-8% of total body mass, and orks can mass up to 400 kilos, again according to Ghostmaker.) going with the conservative "boiling point" estimate, we're probably talking at least 2.7-3 megajoules, minimum, for the combined shot.

This of couse, means it also includes a bolt from a laspistol.
---
Various Sources, Connor's Comprehensive Lasgun Analysis

To summarise, a number of estimates of firepower can be derived from a more complex analysis:
860 KJ to 1.9 MJ to
1.6 MJ to 3.55 MJ
325 to 724 KJ to do damage equivalent to a large bullet.
~ 451 KJ to 1 MJ to do damage equivalent to a shotgun shell.
1.14 to 3.8 MJ from Excecution Hour. This may actually be a pistol.
1.3 to 1.8 or 3 to 5 megajoules from supposedly incinerating a brain with minimal external damage in Gaunt's Ghosts.

All of these seem to indicate something between half a megajoule and three megajoules for a standard lasgun shot.

Source Thread
---
Laspistol
---
Inquisition War Omnibus - Ian Watson, Black Library, Page 550
"By contrast, laspistols were silent in operation. If the aim was inaccurate, the scalpel-blade of energy soon dispersed. Whener a las-pulse met its target: such lacerating flare-up, such a scream of agony, if the victum still had the breath and lungs and heart to scream. Perhaps ten of the pilgrams had fled. A score more lay dead or dying, almost all thanks to the laspistols."

This seems to indicate that laspistols are easily capable of vapourising the water content of a human heart and lungs in a short time. A low end estimate of this firepower is 0.75 to 1.1 megajoules.
Source Thread This is a post from a debate thread, but calcs are in there. This calculation is updated as part of the Lasgun Analysis thread below.
---
Nightbringer - Graham Mcneill, Black Library, Page 220
"Danil Vorens lowered his smoking laspistol and returned his attention to the viewscreen before him. A stunned silance filled the defence control room, the technicians agog at what had just happened. Lutricia Vijeon stared in open mouthed hoor at the corpse lying in the center of the room with a ragged hole where its face had been."

The laspistol shot here has been estimated at around 0.3 to 0.47 megajoules.
Source Thread This is a post from a debate thread, but calcs are in there. This calculation is updated as part of the Lasgun Analysis thread below.
---
Caves of Ice - Sandy Mitchell, Black Library, Page 134
Cain's laspistol was able to generate a hole through the torso of an ork, though this is a non fatal wound, it indicates substantial penetrative ability.
---
Various Sources, Connor's Comprehensive Lasgun Analysis
600 KJ to 3 MJ from Nightbringer.
1.7 to 6.4 MJ from the Inquisition War.
1.14 to 3.8 MJ from Excecution Hour. This may actually be a rifle.

All of these seem to indicate similar power (at least on a low setting) in a laspistol to a standard lasgun shot. However, it would seem logical to infer that the higher power settings on rifles allow more damage. In some cases, these are actually more damaging, especially Inquisition War; though it may be that, as an (admittedly renegade) Inquisitor's retinue, the laspistols in use there were of unusually high quality.

Source Thread
---
Eye of Terror - Barrington J Bayley, Black Library, Page 116
"Out came the laspistol. Calliden was unused to wielding weapons. It took him a moment or two to wrap his fist around the handgrip, release the safety, aim, and press the firing stud.

Steam bubbled all along the length of the laser beam as it hissed through the water. But it failed to reach Aegelica. Instead, it struck a fish, nearly a yard long, which at that moment had glided between them. The fish exploded as the water in its body turned to steam. Fragments of flesh, skin, and bone drifted to the sea bed."

300 KJ through to 20 MJ, depending on how you interpret the apparent vapourisation of fish and water.

Source Thread
---
Lasgun Wedding - Will McDermott, Black Library, Page 241
""Pull him to his knees," roared Ramone. "I want him to kneel before his better before I incinerate that little brain of his.""

Assuming that this is an accurate decription, this would be at least 3 to 4 MJ and potentially up to 21 MJ. However, this may not be a single shot, or it may be a sustained beam.

Source Thread
---
Meltagun
28,544,376 kJ continuous discharge, unknown time.
Source
---
Imperial Plasma Pistol Firepower:
Harlequin – Ian Watson, 2002 paperback edition, Black Library, Page 8:
“Olafson’s last sight could hardly be claimed to be the discharge of this pistol [a plasma pistol] that sight was far too blinding and all-consuming. Already the sun-hot plasma had vaporised Olafson’s eyes, his face, his whole head. […] The headless corpse lay…”

Average weight of a human head: 4.5 Kg upwards source.
Heat of Vaporisation (water): 2,260 kJ/kg
Assuming the head is entirely water, we get a lower limit firepower of 10,305 kJ per shot from this quote.
---
Gaunt's Ghosts: Honour Guard - Dan Abnett, Black Library, Page 128
"Then he [Hark] spun round abruptly, brought up his weapon, and cremated an Infardi who had risen from the roadside weeds with a rifle."

If this 'cremated' the majority of the body, it would be indicative of yeilds in the hundreds of megajoule range.
---
Power Fist Power:
Codex Space Marines - Various, 1999 edition (40K Third Edition), Games Workshop, Page 36
Servo-assisted Power Fist (1-8mw disruptive field)

This power fist is listed as a component of the Gauntlets of Ultramar, as such it may be superior to ordinary Power Fists. 1-8 megawatts variable output.
Last edited by NecronLord on 2008-06-02 11:28am, edited 10 times in total.
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27382
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Post by NecronLord »

By Race: Imperium (Space Marines):
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27382
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Post by NecronLord »

By Race: Imperium (Other):
---
The Inquisition:
---
Recruitment:
---
Caves of Ice - Sandy Mitchell, Black Library, Page 185
"Because the real reason for the practice is to provide properly indoctrinated foot soldiers for the Inquisition. Of course, fewer than five per cent reach the exacting standards required, leaving the ones who don't make the grade to be palmed off on the Guard."

At least some Inquisitorial stormtroopers are the top few percent of those trained for the Imperial Guard.
Last edited by NecronLord on 2008-06-01 01:13pm, edited 1 time in total.
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27382
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Post by NecronLord »

By Race: C'tan and Necrontyr:
---
Combat 'Equipment,' Personal:
---
Caves of Ice - Sandy Mitchell, Black Library, Page 168
"Despite decades of intensive study by both the Ordo Xenos and the Adeptus Mechanicus the sensory mechanisms of the necrons remain a mystery. Sometimes they seem almost preternaturally able to detect an enemy, while at others, as in this instance, they overlook targets literally under their noses. At this time the Inquisition has no explanation to offer for this paradox; and if the Adeptus Mechanicus has one they're not sharing it"

Necron senses.
---
Caves of Ice - Sandy Mitchell, Black Library, Page 223
"The Aura of terror projected by necron pariahs appears to be at least partly a psychic phenomenon, so its quite reasonable to assume a blank would repel them and mask the effect. However, since no other record exists of a blank coming into such close proximity to a group of pariahs, and they're far too rare and valuable to risk in deliberately testing this hypothesis, it must remain conjectural."

An Inquisitor's early forty second millennium understanding of pairah effects. Seems to suggest no necron pariahs have been captured by the Ordo Xenos at this time.
---
Caves of Ice - Sandy Mitchell, Black Library, Page 140
"A few of the shots were more effective than the rest though, more by luck than judgement. As we watched, one of the ork bolts detonated against the power pack attached to the weapon of the leading automaton, and an instant later an explosion ripped apart both the weapon and the necron carrying it."

Here, we see a lucky shot to what Cain describes as the power pack of a necron gauss flayer cause it to explode, destroying necron and weapon completely.
---
Protection, Personal:
---
Caves of Ice - Sandy Mitchell, Black Library, Page 97
Necron warriors are capable of walking through hellgun fire as if it were a "refreshing spring rain" indicating little damage, or even scoring, according to Ciaphas Cain
---
Caves of Ice - Sandy Mitchell, Black Library, Page 213
""Place your shots" Welard said calmly, and the surviving storm troopers unleashed a hail of hellgun fire against our attackers. The glare of lasbolts impacting against the leading necron dazzled my eyes, then its chest gave way, seared and blasted by the precision volley, and it tumbled to the ice-slick floor revealing a fresh target behind it, already levelling another gauss flayer."

A concentrated volley of hellgun fire from six storm troopers can kill a necron. It gets better, though.
---
Caves of Ice - Sandy Mitchell, Black Library, Page 214
".. with the death of our first casualty they fell into a practiced routine , the men at the front falling prone, those behind kneeling, and the ones at the rear standing up so that the whole squad was able to concentrate their fire as one. The second necron lost its head, quite literally..."

Fire from five hellguns destroy or blast the head off a necron warrior.
---
Caves of Ice - Sandy Mitchell, Black Library, Page 219
"On cue, my aide unleashed another blast from his melta into the centre of the group, cutting a swath through them as efficiently as before. Once again the necrons caught by the full force of the blast were simply annihilated, flashing into vapour as thoroughly as the victims of their own terrible weapons, while the ones at the fringe of that ravening burst of energy staggered, limbs and torsos seared and softened like candle wax."

A meltagun blast can vapourise necrons, and injure others, though these may repair themselves of course.
---
Weapons:
---
Gauss Blaster:
Speculative, double the firepower of the standard 'rifle' flayer? The weapon appears to have double the volume.
≈240,000 KJ per shot, lower limit?[Speculative]
---
Gauss Cannon:
Speculative, quadruple the firepower of the standard 'rifle' flayer? The weapon appears to have four times the volume.
≈480,000 Kj per shot, lower limit?[Speculative]
---
Gauss Flayer:
Generic Canon Data Primarily Codex Necrons, 3rd Edition
source
124,028.8 Kj per discharge minimum, probably far higher if we were to account for armour.
---
Ancient Threat - Codex Necrons Preview - White Dwarf # 270, Games Workshop, Page 97
"Ahead, he could see Adept Faistos flattened against the second of the bulkheads interposed between them and the advancing aliens, fervently chanting the rite of excorcism, tears streaking his face. Suddenly, Faistos began to shake, shrieking hideously as his body convulsed in pain, his chest collapsing to leave a gaping, crimson hole. His corpse slumped, revealing the ragged tunnel the necron weapons had burrowed through the metre thick bulkhead."

These seem to be mere necron warriors. At best, they would be immortals, carrying gauss blasters. One would assume that a single necron would be doing this. If so we can asssume it's a sustained 'blast' from a single gauss flayer, in order to provide a generous calculation. Assuming the bulkhead was made of iron, and that the hole burrowed was roughly thirty centimetres wide (to account for 'chest collapsing') this would mean that the necrons vaporised
Estimated Size: 0.0707m³
Density of Iron: 7874 Kg/m³
Total Mass: 7874*0.0707= 556.6918 Kg
Latent heat of fusion: 0.289 MJ/kg
Latent heat of Evaporation 6.34 MJ/kg
(556.6918*0.289=160.8839302)+(556.6918*6.34=3529.426012)
3529.426012+160.8839302=3690.3099422 Mj
3690.3 MJ energy over a short time for one gauss flayer? This should be assumed to be an upper limit, suggesting yeilds in the single gigawatt range? (Note, additional energy required to increase temperature of iron to boiling point omitted at this stage)
---
Caves of Ice - Sandy Mitchell, Black Library, Page 139
"In less than a second, he [an ork struck by a gauss weapon] seemed to dissolve; skin, muscle, and skeleton whipping away to vapour, leaving only the echo of a howl of inhuman agony to mark his passing."

Here we see a distinct mention of at least some vapourisation as part of the gauss flayer effect. Orks are of course, substantially larger than humans, yet this does not seem to provide any problem for the gauss flayer.

This page also provides examples of gauss flayers being moved while active, to generate a sweeping/raking/cutting effect. Despite this, there is no damage described by Cain to the enviroment.
---
Caves of Ice - Sandy Mitchell, Black Library, Page 141
"The ork's triumph was short lived, however, as the conerted beams of the two surviving necrons ripped it to vapour in a heartbeat"

Again, an indication of at least some direct vapourisation of matter by gauss flayers.
Last edited by NecronLord on 2008-06-01 01:56pm, edited 11 times in total.
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27382
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Post by NecronLord »

By Race: Orks:
---
Caves of Ice - Sandy Mitchell, Black Library, Page 185
Ork gargant maximum weapons range implied to be 'a few kilometers.'
Last edited by NecronLord on 2008-06-01 01:12pm, edited 1 time in total.
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27382
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Post by NecronLord »

By Race: Tau, Kroot, and Servitor Races:
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27382
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Post by NecronLord »

By Race: Tyranids:
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27382
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Post by NecronLord »

By Race: Other Races:
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27382
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Post by NecronLord »

Space Combat:
---
Weapons Loadouts:
---
Imperium of Man:
---
13th Legion - Gav Thorpe, Black Library, Page 134-135
"Their anti-ordnance defence turrets have weapons larger than those carried on Titans, their barrels over ten metres long, dozens of the point-defences studding the hull of a ship the size of a cruiser. Their broadsides vary, sometimes having huge plasma cannons capable of incinerating cities, other times its mass drivers that can pound metal and rock into oblivion. Short-range missile batteries can obliterate a smaller foe in a matter of minutes, while high-energgy lasers, which Jamieson tells me are called lancecs, can shear through three metres of the toughest armour with one devastating shot. Most cruisers carry huge torpedoes as well, loaded with multiple warheads charged with volatile plasma bombs, carrying the power to unleash the energy of a small star on the enemy. It makes my humble laspistol look like a spit in an ocean. More like a hundred oceans, actually."

General rundown of cruiser loadout.
---
Ground Support:
---
Chaos:
---
Horus Heresy Sourcebook - Various, Black Library(?) Page 14
"Enormous fleshhounds of Khorne loped forward in their wake. Titans armed with specially constructed siege weapons lumbered inte position. Battle cruisers dropped megatons of explosive death onto the defenders."

An indication of the abilies of chaos ships to operate in a ground support capacity.
---
Weapons Range:
---
Imperium of Man:
---
Battlefleet Gothic Rulebook, Games Workshop, Page 97:
"The two Blackstones have taken up station five thousand leagues from each other, some seventy five thousand leagues from Fularis II and just out of range of the weapons platforms, except for the torpedo launchers."

One league is roughly equal to 5.56 kilometers, so the Blackstone fortresses were just out of range of Imperial weapons (except torpedos) at 417,000km.
---
Battlefleet Gothic Rulebook, Games Workshop, Page 6:
"The actual base of a ship model represents very close range around the ship, no more than a few thousand kilometers"

Bases are typically several centimeters across, indicating ranges of tens to hundreds of thousands of kilometers for various weapons. However, this is partly to allow planets and such to be modelled with any degree of clarity, and is therefore somewhat less than other ranges. It provides an extreme low end to combat range.
---
Battlefleet Gothic Rulebook, Games Workshop, Page 18:
"Direct fire attacks include weapons such as lasers, fusion beams, and plasma launchers which when fired hit almost immediately, even across tens of thousands of kilometers."

Another quote supporting typical combat ranges on the order of tens of thousands of kilometers.
---
Dark Eldar:
---
Nightbringer - Graham McNeill, Black Library, Page 61&62
"'New contact, lord admiral. Sixty thousand kilometers in front of us,' said Philotas, adjusting the runbes before him and squinting at the readout before him, 'I have just detected a plasma energy spike on the mid-range auguries.'
[...]
'Target approaching lance range, Dread Archon.'"

These scenes seem to be roughly simultaneous. Could eldar weapons range be overstated?
---
Weapons Power:
---
Imperium of Man:
---
Lance Batteries and Main Weapons:
Caves of Ice - Sandy Mitchell, Black Library , Page 141
122 Teratons per salvo per battleship ≈ 5.1e23 J per salvo

See below also for more recent calcs.
Source

Caves of Ice - Sandy Mitchell, Black Library, Page 141
"Nothing in our inventory would even come close to doing the job, but an astropathic message to the nearest naval unit would bring a task force here within weeks, and a flotilla of battleships ought to be enough to level the continent. A couple of barrages from their lance batteries would be enough to excise this cancer, however deeply it was buried.

Of course the planet would be rendered uninhabitable for generations, but no one in their right mind would be willing to set foot here once the necron presence was known in any case, so the question was moot."

If we assume that the 'couple of barrages' are also capable of levelling the continent, then this would imply something on the order of 167 teratons in a few shots from a battleship flotilla of (presumably) two to three ships. However, we may be talking about a concentrated lance strike on the necron tomb, followed by a general attack on the area with all weapons for a longer period of time.

Cain also talks about sterilising the planet, which may anything up to 1e11 or 1e12 megatons from a prolonged bombardment, as the planet would still be (such as it was) habitable in the long term.

Source Thread
---
Battlefleet Gothic Rulebook, Games Workshop, Page 8:
"Battleships are the largest fighting ships in space. They can absorb a tremendous amount of damage and mount weapons batteries capable of laying waste to entire continents."
More support for many teratons from battleship weapons, though this quote is unspecific about time frame.
---
Nova Cannons, various sources:
2.77e24J / 662 Teratons kinetic energy (note, Nova Cannons are a proximity detonation weapon, and this is not their primary form of inflicting damage) Lower Limit. 30 Minute Cycle Time Such a weapon would require a reactor capable of at least 1.54e21 watts to power it.
Source Thread
---
Bombardment Cannons, various sources:
Ultra conservative calculations (assuming a 99% empty projectile) give a firepower of 2.129e21 joules. More generous, but still highly conservative estimates place the weapon at 2.089e22J. For 100% iron, increase the estimate by another order of magnitude. This fits quite well with the above Nova Cannon (which is apparently a larger but less flexible version of the same technology) calculations. It should be noted that the bombardment cannon is capable of firing much more rapidly than the nova cannon, every few seconds, perhaps indicating a reactor output as high as the e23 watt range (for the 100% solid shell).
Source Calculations
---
Necrons:
---
Lightning Arcs:
---
Staffuen's Last Stand - Battlefleet Gothic Magazine #2, Fanatic press.
"It looked like a great flat disk, crescent shaped, with a long thin tail. Aries squadron desperately manoeuvred to avoid the leviathan as it rounded the planet rim, but too late. From the enemy ship came a great arc of lightning, illuminating the void with crackling the void with crackling fingers of writhing energy which engulfed the entire squadron. Each frigate seemed held in the energies grasp, unable to move as the lightning crackled about their hulls.

After a few seconds all three escorts exploded in a blinding flash. They were torn apart from within sending chunks of hull, prow and engines spinning into the void."

A necron harvest ship is capable of destroying three frigates (Cobra class) in a few seconds with its main weapons. It also demonstrates an immunity to the weapons of three destroyers (Sword class) and a Dauntless class light cruiser, which do not so much as dent it's hull. It then summerily defeats them in a few more seconds. It seems implicit from the contemptuous ease with which this Shroud and two escorts, which play little part in the battle, destroys an entire patrol group, that the game's rendition of necron ships is somewhat watered-down and that they are even more potent than they are when represented there. It also seems that lightning arcs have a kinetic component too, able to hold a ship stationary relative to the necron vessel.
Last edited by NecronLord on 2008-06-01 01:11pm, edited 12 times in total.
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27382
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Post by NecronLord »

Exterminatus and Mass Destruction:
---
Abaddon’s Planet Killer:
Battlefleet Gothic Rulebook - Various, First Edition, Games Workshop, Page 95
“Within [the Planet Killer's] central cavity, we could detect a massive power surge. Energy crackled from a number of ports on the hull. Then, with a blast that blotted the sun from our scanners, it opened fire. The energy beam lasted for about a half hour. Emperor knows how they could generate that much energy. We linked in to the planetary surveyors to see what was happening on the surface. That bolt bored its way through miles of the planet's crust and seared through the mantle beneath. As the attack finished, the magma surged forth through this continent-sized wound, breaking apart Savaven from within. The seas boiled into the skies, the ice caps melted and whole continents sunk beneath the tidal wave. With such an unimaginable release of energy Savaven was blown out of her natural orbit and flipped over on her axis. I guess nobody was alive by then, but if they were they didn't last long. Like a rations pack crushed in your fist, Savaven just crumpled in on herself, then broke up into thousands of fragments. There's just an asteroid field there now, really dense, impossible to navigate. There were fourteen billion people living on Savaven. Fourteen billion dead in an hour.”

These calculations assume roughly Earth-like parameters for Savaven.

Full Version
Summary:
Ocean Boiling: 3.92e27 joules
Ice Cap Vaporisation: 9.4e25 joules
Vaporising a Continent Sized Hole in the Crust: 1.22e28 joules
Burning (Vaporising) Through the Mantle: 1.41e30 joules
Absolute Upper Limit: 1e32 joules

Conclusion: Given the above range of values and the half-hour timeframe, we can estimate that the sustained firepower of Abbadon's Planetkiller is somewhere between e22watts and e27 watts of firepower.

It should be noted that the effective firepower of the planet-killer is apparently far higher, possibly exceeding 1e32J, when one accounts for inexplicable effects as a result of its semi-magical nature.

Analysis of supplementary evidence
---
Brute Force Exterminatus (Imperium):
Battlefleet Gothic Rulebook - Various, First Edition, Games Workshop, Pages 78 & 96
"The attacking fleet is escorting Extermiantors, ships capable of laying waste to entire planetary populations or even obliterating all life on a world in a matter of hours."
"All had heard of Exterminatus with fusion torpedoes, virus bombs and mass drivers, but to know the enemy had the ability to destroy an entire planet, not just all life on it, must have been the most chilling thought that any naval crewman had ever faced."

Calculations

Single Cruiser's Prow Weapons output, Minimum: 5.02e19 watts to 5.82e20 watts; 12 - 139 Gigatons per second.
---
Cyclonic Torpedos:
Various Sources, especially White Dwarf 287, 'Dying Flame - Last Stand of the Firebrands' by Pete Haines.

These weapons are capable of strange effects, which do not seem to obey conservation of energy. When delivered to a planet's surface, they are apparently capable of eliminating all life in firestorms with an effective yield that can be assumed at least in the 1e8 Megaton (4.184e23 joule) range. When delivered to the mantle or deeper, of a planet, as shown in Dying Flame (and possibly the exterminatus ending of the computer game 'Final Liberation') their effective yield is closer to 1e32 joules. It seems possible that these weapons are some form of chain-reaction device, which becomes far more potent when deployed deep inside a planet via burrowing torpedos, a technology apparently lost to the Adeptus Mechanicus, resulting in the few examples remaining within the imperium being considered precious relics of the Dark Age of Technology.

Conjecture: Were Cylconic weapons designed during the Dark Age of Technology to be deployed in this manner, destroying planets completely rather than just scouring their surface?
---
Akliamor (Eldar-Empire Relics, Destroyed):
White Dwarf #236, The World of the Bloodied Sword, by Gavin Thorpe
"We departed the world's surface and watched from the stars as the akliamor began to activate. It happened slowly to begin with, I remember some of the children standing at the windows, competing to see who could spot the first few blossoms of explosions. Then a chain reaction began to build, as the dark matter at the centre of each weapon was released and began to accumulate. We watched a cloud of death spreading across the face of our ancient home. My vision was clouded with tears and the weeping of our kin weighed heavily on our hearts. Fields were stripped bare, the rocks crumbled to dust, the seas boiled into the air, creating massive electrical storms across the skies, all living things were scattered to the howling winds. We sang the Hymn of Lamentation as we watched Taqamathi dying before our eyes. It did not take long. A final eruption of power shattered the world's skin, causing great volcanoes to spring into life belching rock and dust into the already polluted atmosphere. Cracks and rents ripped across her once beautiful continents. Where the forests of Lietha once spread as far as the eye could see, there was no only rivers and lakes of lava and fire; the Gardens of Maegan were an ash-strewen desert; the majestic Zamua valleys were filled with boiling mud slides and fountaining geysers. At that final moment Taqamathi again retained something of beauty; the savage and powerful beauty of the universe unleashed and returning to its natural form, for Taqamathi had always been tamed to our will and now she was retuning to her wild origins. Satisfied that nothing could ever live on Taqamathi..."

If we assume that the seas described are similar to Earth's oceans, and were fully boiled away, this would be allow us to use the 3.92e27 joules figure described for such an event above, giving an effective yeild of around 937 petatons for the Akliamor weapons collective firepower.
Last edited by NecronLord on 2006-05-24 11:27am, edited 6 times in total.
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27382
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Post by NecronLord »

Appendix 1: Abbreviations and Sources:
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27382
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Post by NecronLord »

Appendix 2: Misc:
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
User avatar
Balrog
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2258
Joined: 2002-12-29 09:29pm
Location: Fortress of Angband

Post by Balrog »

Cool, I assume just post whatever you have and it'll be organized in the headings?

Space Combat
Imperial Weapons Range
Battlefleet Gothic Rulebook, Games Workshop, Page 97:
"The two Blackstones have taken up station five thousand leagues from each other, some seventy five thousand leagues from Fularis II and just out of range of the weapons platforms, except for the torpedo launchers."

One league is roughly equal to 5.56 kilometers, so the Blackstone fortresses were just out of range of Imperial weapons (except torpedos) at 417,000km.
'Ai! ai!' wailed Legolas. 'A Balrog! A Balrog is come!'
Gimli stared with wide eyes. 'Durin's Bane!' he cried, and letting his axe fall he covered his face.
'A Balrog,' muttered Gandalf. 'Now I understand.' He faltered and leaned heavily on his staff. 'What an evil fortune! And I am already weary.'
- J.R.R Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring
Post Reply