Grand 40K Quantification Thread

[Imperial Overlord]

I'm well aware of the pedigree of Connor's quotes. All that Space Fleet game material has been retconned. In fact they went to considerable trouble to keep the versions of the ships similar in terms of role and capabilities in Battle Fleet Gothic to their counterparts in the earlier game, so as to minimalize the fluff damage.

Gothics, although demoted to cruisers, are still laser and torpedo armed ships of the line. The Emperor class is still a carrier type battleship, Cobras are still destroyers, and Firestorms are still heavily armed frigates. Gothics are specifically described to be common throughout the Imperium. Probably the best way to rationalize the different classifications is through the use of different terminology in differrent parts of Imperial Space due to their feudal systems. In backwater parts of the Imperium (as oppossed to the fairly industrialized Gothic Sector) they might call the Gothic a battleship not a cruiser and an Emperor a capital ship not a battleship.

Difference appearances are explainable by the fact that different patterns of the same warship design differ in outword appearance . A Voss pattern Gothic looks different from a Mars pattern Gothic, although they both share common capabilities.

As for force fields and Castellans, we have cannon evidence of several different defensive field technologies existing within the Imperium of Man.

As for size their is a clear reference (although I have yet to find that part of Execution Hour again) of a Dictator class cruiser being 3 km long.

[Lost Soal]

Aft lay the engine section, comprising fully one third of the ship's three kilometer length,

Can't give the actual page number as this is from an except which lasts from the Mecharius's departcher from Cypris Mundi to the destruction of the Contagion.

[Connor MacLeod]

More stuff from that site:

Hive Worlds
Hives are huge urban conglomerations which can stretch across continents and which may reach miles into the sky. A planet may comprise many individual hives divided by areas of polluted waste - in some cases the world is completely built-up forming a single planet-wide hive. Hive worlds have huge, unmanageable populations and rely upon constant recycling to produce food. Such planets are usually rife with anarchic and destructive forces and as a result provide the richest source of fighting men for the Imperial Guard.

- I'm simply noting this description because of the implication it may have for Exterminatus events. To quote from Mike's BDZ page

The realistic energy requirements for this kind of all-encompassing destruction are much larger than a naïve observer might initially assume. The destruction of all edible sea life (ie- "fisheries") requires the boiling of large quantities of the planetary oceans, and the destruction of all mines (which are underground structures by nature) and underground bunkers requires much deeper ground penetration than is possible with a 1 metre melt depth. A BDZ also requires the melting of all cities, and the kind of urban agglomeration seen in typical Republic worlds would require a great deal of energy to melt in such a manner. It is obvious even without detailed analysis that a 400 metre tall skyscraper requires much more energy to melt than the one metre thick layer of rock upon which it once stood, yet we know from the example of Milagro17 (where entire cities were reduced to shimmering glassy lakes) that such complete melting is not unusual.

This may mean that the firepower involved in an Exterimatnus event may be far in excess of the 1e9 megaton threshhold elaborated on by me elsewhere. Note that other implications noted in that same page (IE the 2000 psi to take out hardened targets for a "zero survivor" mission) can also apply here, which only reinforces the idea that a 1e9 megaton threshhold is "conservative."

In addition to ships under the control of the Imperial Commander, planets lying in vulnerable positions or having a history of trouble may also have a Fleet base. Although Fleet ships are independent of those of the Imperial Commander, both would be ready to meet an emergency. Fleet ships may also be stationed in one system so that they can patrol a number of nearby star systems.
Ships built by Imperial Commanders are pure interplanetary craft with no warp drives. Fleet patrol ships would of course be interstellar ships with warp drives but they'd also have many small interplanetary ships operating from the launch bays built into their hulls.
In times of war or danger, fleet ships from all over a sector may be diverted from their normal duties to form a battlefleet. Rarely is it necessary to divert ships from other sectors, nor would it be worth moving vast numbers of ships just to defend a solitary world. A common Imperial ploy is to let a world fall, knowing that it can easily be retaken once sufficient craft can be mobilised. This is not a popular tactic with the populations of such planets, but spacecraft are valuable and difficult to replace whereas humanity is prolific

- Naval chain of commands are independent of the "sub-stellar starship" chains of command, or implied to be.
- Implication of "standard" planetary defense fleet sizes are in teh scores (50-75 ships per sector, presumably.) although offensive ventures can (and are) larger, given an ealrier mention of "thouisands" of ships diverted to fight the Tyranids.
- Warp capable starships are seen as being far more valuable than whole planets of huumans (or indeed their defenses.). This also makes sense in light of what I outlined above about defensive fleet sizes. This of course, makes sense, given the long build times on warp-capable vessels.

The vast majority of spacecraft in the Imperium are sub-stellar ships which travel only within the confines of their own star system. The laws governing the ownership and operating of sub-stellar ships are the concern of the Imperial Commander of each system. The Imperial authorities take no great interest in what happens on this, galactically-speaking, tiny level.
Sub-stellar ships divide into many kinds, from warships to industrial craft.

Sub-stellar craft are far more numerous than "warp-capable" ones (as theorized above). This apparently applies to both the local Commander's sub-stellar craft as well as Naval Fleet sub-stellar craft (divisions already discussed and elaborated further below)
Also of note is the apparent fact that sub-stellar craft seem to be divided along similar lines like warp craft (IE warships, cargo ships, etc.)

Warships
Most space warfare centres around planets, installations and other important targets within a solar system. It is therefore sensible to maintain sub-stellar craft in the proximity of vulnerable systems. These craft may be Fleet vessels operating out of a Fleet base, or they may be vessels belonging to the Imperial Commander of the system.

Both Fleet and planetary forces employ sub-stellar craft, as implied elsewhere. It is assumed that "Fleet" sub-stellar warships exclude fighters for purposes of this discussion, though logically fighters would make up static defenses as well. (As mentioned elsewhere, its also possible sub-stellar craft operate out of dedicated carriers as well as Fleet Bases. Sub-Stellar craft under a local commander are presumed to be purely static defenses.)

Cargo Ships
If a system has several inhabited planets it will need cargo ships of one kind or another. These may be owned and run by the planetary government or by private individuals, cartels or companies. Most systems would have both government- controlled and privately-owned craft.

Presumably given their inability to travel in warp, not many Imperial systems run sub-stellar cargo ships in any practical numbers (though they may be used to ferry s upplies among outposts and bases on other planets for military purposes such as resupply, of course.) Its also likely that while the percentage of sub-stellar cargo ships is not insignificant, its also probably not major either.

Industrial Ships
These include all manner of ships used for maintenance, manufacture and mining, owned by governmental or private groups in the same way as cargo ships.

- Self explanatory. This is probably more numerous than dedicated cargo ships, but whether or not these (or warships) make up similar or larger percentages of the overall "sub-stellar" craft in the Imperium is a matter of debate.

Research Ships
Very few systems are fully explored - there are always parts of a solar system which are uninvestigated. The exact nature of research or exploration varies from system to system. A common ship of this type is the mineral prospector which investigates potential mining areas.

- Again, self explanatory. It is assumed this vessel represents a tiny percentage of "stellar craft"

Space Stations
It is not always possible to build bases or docking facilities on planets or asteroids, so space stations may be constructed instead. These are huge craft which provide all the facilities normally available on a planet.

I would assume this also includes orbital weapons platforms as well as docking facilities or bases.

Beacons
Beacons are small space stations. They serve three functions. Firstly they act as navigational beacons by broadcasting a local signal. Secondly, they monitor passing spacecraft, sending information regarding size, course and registration signal. Thirdly, they act as emergency refuges where the crews of crippled ships can survive until they can be rescued. Beacons usually have a small crew, although some are entirely automated. The position and number of beacons in a system varies from none at all to hundreds.

- implied sensor ranges of the beacons of anywhere from several light minutes (or several tens of light minutes) to possibly several light hours. Unknown whether or not this includes any FTL capability, although it is curious that no means of communication is provided.

Warfleet Commander
The highest ranking of the military officers is the Warfleet Commander. He is in charge of the entire naval contingent of a Segmentum, numbering many thousands of warships. There are only five Warfleet Commanders, one for each of the Segmentae Majors. They rank equally, although command of the Warfleet Solar is generally regarded as the most prestigious position.
The Warfleet Commander formulates the naval fleet strategy throughout the entire Segmentum, overseeing repair schedules, supervising construction programs and ensuring the general space-worthiness of the fleet. His personal staff is divided into armament, maintenance, design, construction and a thousand other working committees.

Again, note the referencee to "many thousands" of warships per segmentum, establishing a firm lower limit.

Space Commanders
Under the Warfleet Commander are individual Space Commanders responsible for naval operations within each sector. The Space Commander is based at the Sector Fortress, along with other sector-level administrative staff of the Administratum and other branches of the Adeptus Terra. He must answer not only to his naval superior, the Warfleet Commander, but also to the Adeptus Sector Commander in overall charge of the sector.
The Space Commander has direct command of a portion of the Segmentum's warfleet. A typical command comprises about 50 interstellar ships, although the number would obviously vary depending upon the needs of the sector. Fifty ships is very few when you consider that a typical sector has between 30 and 40 thousand stars forming a cube with sides approximately 200 light years long!
These warships are divided up into patrol vessels, ships on permanent station in one star system and the reserve fleet. The reserve fleet is usually stationed at the Sector Fortress.

A sector is composed of 30-40,000 stars, but the percentage of "inhabited" and 'Imperial-held" planets to non-held is not known. If the total number of systems (both held by the Imperiasl as well as those outside their control/uninhhabited) were known or estimated, a comparison MIGHT be possible, although this isn't a guaranteed number.

Group Commanders
Group Commanders are in charge of a portion of a sector's fleet. They are sometimes based around the Sector Fortress or, more often, on one of the permanently-manned docking stations in one of the sub-sectors. Group Commanders are responsible for patrolling and keeping order within sub- sectors and inter-sectors around their base.
A typical command consists of a sub-sector base, noncombatant staff and a couple of squadrons of ships. One squadron is usually a patrol squadron, while the other is held in reserve to meet specific threats.
Group commanders often serve as Battlefleet Commanders when the need arises. The battlefleet is a temporary force, summoned to meet a single crisis or defeat a particular enemy. It usually consists of spaceships from only two or three neighbouring sub-sectors at most. The Battlefleet Commander is generally the most senior of the Group Commanders whose warships are involved in the battle.

Given that a "Typical" squadron is indicated to be 3 ships below, this suggests that most sub-sectors contain between 6-9 ships on average. With around 1-2 million systems in the Imperium, and about 2 planets per sub-sector, this might imply a fleet size of around 6-9 million ships (not a firm upper limit, but a pretty high-end estimate.)

Squadron Commanders
A Squadron Commander is in charge of a squadron of spaceships. He is also a ship Captain and leads his squadron from the bridge of the ship he commands. A typical squadron might be three spacecraft of which the Commander's ship is one.
While the Battlelfeet Commander dictates the overall tactics of the force, the Squadron Commander's task is to make decisions about the formation and manoeuvres of the spaceships he leads.

Implied typical "squadron" is 3 above. Also suggests a possible number of ships for the "flotilla" mentioned in the Caves of Ice "lance-bombardment" calc.

Captains
Captains are in charge of individual ships. In terms of fleet organistion, they are the lowest ranking officers - on their own ships, they are absolute commanders. On a spaceship that is vast beyond belief, crewed by tens of thousands of men and women, the Captain's position is one of huge prestige and honour. To the spaceship's crew, far distant from the higher organisation of the fleet, their Captain is the voice of the Emperor and the symbol of supreme power in their ship- bound lives.

Crew sizes are "tens of thousands" - unknowon ship size though.

The Imperium is large - large enough to hide in if you really want to! The Administratum has a great deal of control over interstellar shipping one way or another but, even so, there are illegally-operating interstellar craft. These ships are owned and operated by unregistered merchants, smugglers and even by pirates. They are taking a grave risk, because any unregistered ship is automatically assumed to be hostile by naval forces.
All illegal ships are at a considerable disadvantage compared to registered vessels. Navigators are, on the whole, loyal citizens. They are also quite rare. Interstellar travel without a Navigator is relatively slow because the maximum distance a ship can jump is only four or five light years compared to five thousand. There are navigators who will work on board illegal ships, but they are few and far between. The vast majority of illegal interstellar shipping is therefore locally-based, usually operating within a group of close sub-sectors or from peripheral inter-sectors.

- Mention of illegally owned warp-capable ships, but that they are shorter-ranged than Navigator-equipped craft and thus limited to very short operational ranges.

A typical interstellar voyage might begin with a cargo ship lying in orbit around an Imperial world. Tiny shutflecraft busily transfer precious minerals, foodstuffs, crew and manufactured items from the world below. The loading procedure may take weeks or months, as the shuttles return time and time again to the huge ship. Once loading is complete, the colossal craft slowly accelerates out of orbit under the power of its main drives.
The ship heads outward towards the rim of the solar system, carefully increasing speed by tiny increments as it does so. Although the vessel's engines are capable of terrific acceleration, the risk of collision with interplanetary debris is high if the ship accelerates too quickly or too much. As the sun shrinks in the ship's wake, the density of debris lessens and the ship's speed reaches approximately 1% that of light.
[/quiote]

Implied sublightl velocity of 3,000 km/s. Presumably this is for a freighter, and not a warship.

After several weeks travel, the ship arrives at its first destination. This is the jump-point lying around the star system like the circumference of a circle. This delineates the point at which inter-planetary debris falls below maximum warp density. Once this invisible line has been crossed it is safe to activate warp drives. A crew careless or foolhardy enough to prematurely activate warp drives would be lucky to find their ship hurled thousands of light years off course. More likely, the ship would be torn apart and destroyed, never to be heard of again.

- Reasons given for the dififculty/danger of performing warp-jumps inside a system
- It takes two weeks to reach a jump point on the edge of the system . Assuming a system similar to the Solar system, and starting from Earth to pluto, the distance would be approximately ~39 AU. (this is roughly consistent with a 2 week travel time at 1% of c.. although the actual speed implied is more like 1.5% of c.. close enough) Lower-limit acceleration implied to be roughly 16 m/s^2, although even for a freighter, this is considered conservative, given the caution outlined in the paragraph above.

With the safe activation of its warp drives, the ship is plucked out of the real universe and enters the dimension of warpspace. Its true interstellar journey has begun. Ships travelling in warpspace do so by means of jumps varying in length up to five thousand light years. While in warpspace, the ship is piloted by its Navigator, one of the rare human mutants who are able to see into the warp with their Third Eye.
Only a long journey would involve more than a single jump. Even so, almost two weeks pass on board ship before the craft is ready to end its jump. Meanwhile, because of time shifts in warpspace. over a year has passed in the real universe.

commentary on the size/duration of a typical jump (again, for an interstellar freighter apparently)

The ship re-enters real space just beyond the jump-point of its destination solar system. If it is lucky the ship will come out close to the jump-point, otherwise it may take many extra weeks to reach the inner planets.

Evidently, emergence from warp is alot less precise than entrance to. Another possible problem with the use of warping as a tacitcal tool.

It is always wise to allow a safe margin when jumping towards a star. The results of re-entering space within the jump-point would be the same as prematurely activating warp drives on the outward journey, and would almost certainly end in disaster.

Again, dangers and limitations of entry/exit from warp inside a star system.

The ship is now ready for its final haul, beginning by broadcasting to its destination and establishing a new time co-ordinate. Time in warpspace is so different from time in normal space that the crew has no idea whether their journey has taken a few months or years.
Initially, the ship travels at approximately 1% of light speed, decelerating gradually through the denser inner regions. Eventually, the ship reaches its destination, where swarms of tiny shuttles once more make themselves busy loading and unloading cargo and passengers in preparation for the ship's next journey.

Again, mention of freighters traveling at 1% of c. L ower limit presumably on travel times for a warship.

Sacrifices
The psychic levy inevitably harvests many whose powers are too random and their minds too vulnerable. If left unrestrained they would soon perish, and their doom would lead to further deaths and maybe even to the destruction of entire worlds. In a teeming universe their loss is of no great matter, but even in death they can serve - for the Emperor must feed upon raw psychic energy if he is to survive as the protector of humanity. These sacrifices are fed into the Emperor's Golden Throne so that the Emperor and the Imperium itself can continue.

The Emperor sustains himself on the psychic energies of psychics.

THE CHAMBER OF THE ASTRONOMICAN
The Chamber of the Astronomican is a huge hollow sphere carved from a single mountain peak. Its outward form is a giant dome, the lower half of the sphere being buried under the rock. Ten thousand multi-tiered seats cover the entire inner surface of the sphere. Each seat faces the very centre of the sphere where a raw ball of psychic energy dances in space.
This ball of energy is created by the Chosen as they release their powers into the Astronomican. In this way their psychic power is drained into the energy-ball and then through the warp, directed by the mind of the Emperor himself. As the energy of the Chosen is drained away they slowly fade and die. The average psyker lasts for about three months - about 100 die every day and their places are taken by new Chosen.

The Emperor's ability to manipulate psychic powers (and possibly his own energy levels pre Horus, see "Sacrifices" above) is at least 10,000x greater than a psyker (assume "average" psyker.)

Without Navigators to steer its ships, the Imperium would quickly fragment into thousands of separate stellar empires, each only a few dozen light years across, whose spacecraft would be obliged to use tiny and dangerous blind jumps to cover interstellar space.

Possible implication for the size of a sector-sub-sector, given the "shorrt-range" nvaigational capability option. (See "Illegal Shipping" as per above.)

[Connor MacLeod]

Last bit I pulled.. on the starships.

TYRANT BATTLESHIP
The Tyrant's design is similar to that of the larger Emperor capital ship. Each of the Imperium's ship designs is associated with a single shipyard. The shipyards orbit the forge-worlds of the Adeptus Mechanicus.
These worlds are vast manufacturing bases, their surfaces covered with massive industrial complexes, huge volcanic furnaces, skyscraping chimneys, abyss-like quarries and the great workshop-fortresses of the Titan Orders.
The Emperor, Tyrant and Dominator are typical of the spaceships produced at the Jovian shipyards. The docks and workshops circle the planet like a ring of moons, home to the millions of Servitors, Technomats and Drones that work under the supervision of Artisans and Rune-Priests to build the Imperium's warships. Each ship is a vast undertaking. Many of those working on it will live and die during its construction, never seeing the magnificent warship they proudly strived so hard to create.
Although the Tyrant resembles the Emperor, it is a more manoeuvrable ship. Where the Emperor often depends on its huge size and powerful shields to protect it, the Tyrant can attempt to outmanoeuvre the enemy in order to bring its devastating laser broadsides to bear.
Like the Emperor, the Tyrant has a large energy ram on its prow, constantly rippling with sparks of barely-restrained power. With its manoeuvrability at speed, the Tyrant can often move into a ramming position and literally carve its way through the enemy fleet.
The Tyrant battleship serves a similar role to the Gothic battleship - bringing rebellious systems into line, keeping the Imperial peace wherever it sails, and forming the core of battlefleets summoned to defeat pirates, alien raiders and other space-borne enemies of the Imperium.

- Implies each "Forge world" may also have a shipyard, which may provide an estimate on the number of interstellar craft facilities in the Imperium.
- Implied construction rate of generations, possibly a century or more, for battleships.
- Like an Emperor, a Tyrant is durable enough to survive ramming a target.

DOMINATOR BATTLESHIP
The Dominator comes from the same family of ships as the Tyrant and Emperor. It is armed with the awesome inferno cannon. This massive cannon is mounted along the entire length of the Dominator's hull. The huge shells are loaded at the rear of the ship in a cavernous chamber positioned above the roaring fury of the Dominator's plasma drives.
Each inferno cannon shell is the size of a tall building, its warhead packed with explosive. The shells are moved from the ship's magazine on great tracked transport vehicles that crawl along echoing tunnels down the length of the ship. The shells are loaded by powerful winches, guided by an army of engineers whose prayers ring through the chambers. As the huge breech closes, the gun crews leave the chamber - no man could withstand at short range the awesome concussion produced as the shell is fired.
The shell accelerates down the long barrel of the cannon, reaching a searing velocity that hurls it out into space. The whole ship shudders with the recoil of the cannon - indeed, it is constructed with massively reinforced bulkheads and hull supports to withstand the powerful shockwaves.
When the shell detonates it releases a ball of radioactive fire that forms a sphere of destruction kilometres across. Not only the cannon's target, but any ship close to it receives a deadly blast of intense heat, energised particles and huge jagged shards of shrapnel larger than most sub-stellar spaceships.
The inferno cannon is affectionately known as the Planet Buster by a Dominator's crew because it is often used in planetary assaults to rain fire down on enemy cities. A single shell is powerful enough to destroy all but the largest cities, leaving only flattened ruins around a crater many hundreds of metres deep. When an enemy planet learns that a Dominator has entered the star system, it is rare for a complete and unconditional surrender not to follow swiftly.

Inferno cannon creates a destructive radius (odd, since no fireballs in space) "kilometers" across. Possibly plasma weapon. Recoil is inferred to be less than the ship's total mass + engine thrust (unlike Nova cannon). Quite possibly much slower velocity and shorter range than Nova cannon (but larger warhead?)
- Warhead is "size of a building", may provide estimate on volume (which may be used to estimate yield, given its "packed with explosive")
- creates crater 'hundreds of meters deep", although the implied diameter is significantly larger (destroys an entire city -flattened ruins) Unknown if this refers to melting, shattering, or vaporization. May be low gigaton range to mid-to high teraton range, depending on assumed destructive mechanism and diameter.
"Planet-buster" suggests large-scale damage (gigaton/teraton range) although this is not definite.
- Implication is that Inferno cannon might be more destructive Than Emperor's broadside.

GOLIATH FACTORY SHIP
The Goliath factory ship is a vast interstellar refinery and fuel transporter. Its role is to supply fuel to energy-hungry industrial and hive worlds. It transports its cargo from star systems rich in mineral resources across vast interstellar distances to worlds which have already depleted their own natural resources.
It arrives at a mining planet and takes aboard millions of tons of unrefined rare ores - for, of course, only rare and valuable ores are worth the expense of interstellar transportation. En route, the Goliath's huge refineries extract all the precious minerals from the ores. Working at immense pressures and temperatures, these minerals are then converted into plasma fuels that are incredibly energy-rich.
The Goliath itself needs a vast quantity of energy. Each ton of enriched plasma fuel uses many times more energy in the making than it will ever provide. To power its processes, the Goliath makes use of resources not available to cities and planetary factories - the raw power of the stars themselves. The Goliath skims close to the surface of stars, sucking in the energy that is burning off them by means of power fields that funnel the energy through to the Goliath's reactors.
At the end of its long voyage, a Goliath will have produced several million tons of super-energised plasma fuel. Every ton of this fuel is a thousand times more powerful than conventional nuclear fuels. And any explosion aboard a Goliath produces an incinerating fireball a thousand times more powerful than a conventional nuclear explosion.
Most Goliath factory ships are part of the Imperial merchant fleets. They usually ply the chartered routes between mining worlds and industrial planets. When they are passing through dangerous space, they often form into convoys accompanied by a defensive force of warships.
Sometimes a single Goliath accompanying a large battlefleet for the safety it offers will get caught up in a battle. At other times, a convoy will be deliberately attacked by pirates seeking to capture the ship or enemy raiders seeking to destroy it. A lucky convoy will be well-defended by warships. More often, only a few ships can be spared to protect the convoy and a fierce battle will ensue between raiders and convoy defence ships.

- the "plasma fuel" used in plasma reactors is evidnetly NOT a conventional plasma as we know it. The "plasma fuel" is an artificially manufactured fuel, and like antimatter, its creation process is quite inefficient ("more energy goes into making it than it will provide")
- Goliath's tap the power of stars by skimming "close" and absoribng the energy via forcefields (might provide a benchmark on shield capabilities if dimensions of ship are known.)
- Each goliath produces "several million tons" of plasma fuel. The energy density of the fuel is considerably higher than "conventional nuclear fuels." If this means (in a strict definition) fisson fuels, then the energy density is close to that of an annihilation reaction (and probably quite efficient.)
Assuming it refers to fusion, teh energy density is going to be some 6.3e17 joules per kg.. which is about 7x greater than antimatter. Since this is impossible, this suggests that the "plasma" somehow can externally "tap" some sort of external source (perhaps like the Warp, or the Grid) for power, and the plasma acts as some sort tof consumable catalyst.
given the strict definition of "nuclear fuel", I am leaning towards the first explanation as the most plausible, although this does not neccesarily *mean the other is totally impossible, either.
- Explosion of "plasma fuels" is orders of magnitude more destructive than "conventional nuclear explosives."

GALAXY TROOP SHIP
The Galaxy is a fleet support ship used to transport regiments of the Imperial Guard from one star system to another. The Galaxy itself is not a proper warship although it will often operate as part of a battlefleet, supplying troops for planetary landings.
Imperial Guard regiments are recruited from a world's best warriors - gang fighters from hive worlds, planetary defence forces from industrialised worlds, tribal warriors from feral worlds and the feudal elite from medieval worlds.
At the time prescribed by the Administratum, a troop ship such as a Galaxy arrives at the planet to recruit the elite warriors. They then begin a great journey through space during which they are trained in the armaments and tactics of the Imperium. They are issued with standard Imperial equipment - lasguns, flak armour and so forth - and instructed in the Imperial faith. When they arrive at their destination, they have been trained into a crack force, their natural warrior skills honed to a razor-sharp edge.
Some regiments are sent to conquer and pacify newly-discovered planets and may remain there afterwards as a garrison, forming a new warrior elite to rule the planet. Other regiments may be moved from warzone to warzone, fighting countless battles on the Imperium's behalf.

- Implied method (or at least one method) of the collection of and training of troop ships. The troop ships are evidently large enough to hold equipment for and provide training to, thousands or tens of thousands of troops. Also, the number of troop ships implied in the Imperium must be in the millions, given the number of planets and regiments that must exist.

ELDAR SHADOWHUNTER
Like the Wraithship, the Eldar Shadowhunter is constructed from psychically-attuned Wraithbone and powered by a massive solar sail that drives the ship forward on a gale of photons released by the stars themselves. The Shadowhunter is smaller and faster than the Wraithship and is capable of both great speed and agile turns. It is best used for lightning attacks, launching its plasma torpedoes or firing laser broadsides from close range and depending on its speed and bob fields to prevent the enemy returning fire.
Unlike most Imperial ships and the Eldar Wraithship, the Shadowhunter is protected by holo fields instead of shields. Shield technology works by projecting defensive energy fields around the spaceship to absorb and deflect attacks. Each shield can only absorb so much energy and eventually it is battered down until the power built up can be discharged - a process that lasts much longer than any space battle.
The Shadowhunter's holo fields work on a different principal. The fields project a holographic dispersion pattern which disrupts enemy targeting. The effect of the holo fields increases as the ship moves faster and faster. At slow speeds, its shape is blurred and its outline indistinct. It is seen by the enemy as a dancing cloud of multi-coloured shards - this makes precise targeting of the Shadowhunter difficult. At higher speeds it disappears altogether - only a slight rippling effect like a heat haze against the backdrop of glittering stars reveals it to keen eyes. No targeter can successfully track such an indistinct, fast-moving spaceship.
However, because the fields only disrupt targeting, the Shadowhunter is easily damaged if hit. This means that it must keep moving, darting through enemy formations at maximum speed to deliver its attacks and then turning beyond the range of their guns.

- Description of Imperium shields and Eldar Holo-fields. Holo-field stealth devices seem to suggest that they are most effective at high speeds and long ranges (multi-light second?)
- again, shield limitations - absorb and reradiate absorbed weapons fire, and that the absorbed energy is only reradiated slowly/cannot be radiated while shields are up. (This may, however, conflict with shields as presented in Battlefleet Gothic, suggesting perhaps advances in shield technology were made, or that differeng grgades of shield exist.)

After a major space battle, many of the ships will have suffered minor damage. Shield generators recover over time as the excess power that has been built up is drained off. But if the shields have been breached by enemy attacks, the ship itself will have taken damage. Sometimes this can be repaired as the spaceship continues its journey - more often the ship has to return to the nearest space dock for repairs and a refit.
While his ship is docked, the fleet commander uses his authority and high prestige to get the most out of the engineers working on his flagship. And although he won't let the rest of his fleet suffer, he can requisition the best materials for his own ship. As the flagship is often the key to success or victory in a battle, it is entirely appropriate that it receives the most attention.

- indicative of slow dissipation rate of shields relative to absorptionr ate (this may be as noted above, superseded by Battlefleet gothic shield descriptions)
- onboard repiar facilities cannot deal with some forms of damage, or severa amounts of damage. Ships still need to return to a space dock for refits.

ANNIHILATOR BATTLESHIP
On the Annihilator battleship, the usual laser broadsides of Imperial battleships have been abandoned in favour of two huge turret-mounted cannon. Known as Annihilator cannon, these massive weapons fire huge shells armed with powerful explosive warheads. The shells are fired at high velocity and then accelerated even further under propulsion from fast-burning plasma rockets. When they hit their target, their sheer speed and mass is enough to tear through even the armoured hull of an interstellar warship. A fraction of a second later their warheads explode and inflict devastating damage.
The turret mounting allows the Annihilator captain to bring his weapons to bear on all sides - only ships directly behind the Annihilator are safe from attack. The cannon can also be fired as the turret is being rotated - where a laser broadside has to concentrate its fire, the Annihilator cannon can pick out separate targets for attack. This is especially effective against smaller ships when a single shot from an Annihilator cannon can destroy the target.
Annihilators were the first battleships designed and built at the great Cypra Mundi forge worlds in the Segmentum Obscurus. Although they show their heritage in the rear portion of the ship, which resembles the typical design of the Jovian shipyards, the spear-headed front clearly shows the unique character of ships from Cypra Mundi. The use of unusual armament rather than the traditional laser batteries is also typical of Cypra Mundi.

- Annihilator cannons seem to be some sort of sclaed-up relative to a Bolter: the launcher provides some inital velocity, suppelmented by thrust by independent propulsion. (velocity unknown, but these weapons may be related to Bombardment cannons.) Dual damage mechanism of impact and explosion. PRojectile may also possibly be guided, although this is purely speculative.
- adiditional mention of "laser broadsides" distinct from turrets.
- Mention of "Jovian shipyards" (possibly jupiter-based Shipyards?)

THUNDERBOLT CRUISER
The Thunderbolt is a fast-moving manoeuvrable strike ship from the shipyards of Cypra Mundi. It has the classic spearheaded shape which is the hallmark of spaceships from this forge world.
Its other distinguishing features also typify Cypra Mundi's experimentation: the unusual design of the large plasma drive at the rear, its inertial stabilisers and its use of forward-firing laser batteries rather than the more common broadsides.
The Thunderbolt cruiser is remarkably manoeuvrable for a ship of its size. This is due to its unique inertial stabilisers.
These stabilisers use a similar technology to the anti-gravity devices found in weapon suspensors. They offset the effects of mass and inertia and allow the Thunderbolt to turn much faster and in a much tighter circle than other Imperial ships of its size.
The speed and manoeuvrability of the the Thunderbolt cruiser, combined with its forward-firing laser batteries, make it ideal for fast sweeping attacks that aim to hit the enemy hard and then turn quickly to re-engage while the enemy is still recovering.

- "inertial stabilizers" seem to be some sort of repulsor-like gravitic device (or possibly a giant tractor beam) that confers tremenbous agility to the ship. Only mention of non-reaction drives I can remember. Operational mechanism not known, although they probably rely on pushing/pulling on other masses (at least that would satisfy conservation of momentum!) which would make sense since most battles as noted before are fought around planets (and in cases where its not, the ship could push/pull against other masses, such as warships)
the only other explanation (and I prefer to ignore this) is that its some weird "mass-lightening" system. Given its comparison to "weapon suspensors" (no idea what that is.. anyone?) this seems unlikely.

DICTATOR BATTLESHIP
The Dictator is probably the most unusual battleship to be built at the great Jovian shipyards. It is designed specifically for close assault and is used to board, and often dismember, enemy spaceships.
The gigantic power claws of a Dictator can move with frightening speed to grab an enemy spaceship and rip it out of formation. Even if they fail to take hold, the massive force of the Dictator's claws can severely damage an enemy ship, tearing through its hull and crushing or pulling off huge sections of a ship's superstructure, engines or weapons.
An enemy ship that is firmly grabbed by the Dictator's claws is dragged onto the Dictator's huge boarding drill that bites deep into the unfortunate ship's innards. Once the drill has crunched through an enemy's hull and torn its path of destruction deep into the interior of the ship, hundreds of vast reinforced hatches swing open and the Dictator's crack assault teams pour out and take the battle into the very heart of the enemy ship.
If the first assault of the boarding action isn't successful and the enemy resistance appears to be strong, the Dictator captain may order his troops back to their own ship. He'll then use the Dictator's mighty power claws to twist and tear and crush the enemy ship. Smaller ships may be literally torn in two by the Dictator - larger ships may be disembowelled by the terrible saw-toothed drill.
Sometimes a ship will manage to break free, firing its engines at maximum power to loose itself from the Dictator's iron grip. But this is a desperate manoeuvre, often crippling the escaping ship as huge sections of its hull are torn off in the attempt

Dedicated boarding platform . One can only assume this was designed for specific roles or uses, rather than as a "general purpose" ship. Possibly an experimental design.

STALWART ESCORT SHIP
The Stalwart is a convoy escort vessel and planetary defence ship. It is used primarily to escort merchant vessels as they travel between the heart of a system to the jump point at the very fringes of the system. The Stalwart itself has no warp drives and cannot make jumps between planetary systems. A squadron of Stalwarts will escort a convoy from the space docks around the system's planets and then remain at the jump point when the merchant vessels fire their warp drives and make their leap into warpspace. The Stalwarts wait at the jump point for the arrival of another convoy, which they then escort back into the centre of the system.
Stalwarts both guide and guard the merchant vessels they escort. Drawing on an intimate knowledge of their own system, the Stalwarts plot a course to avoid potential hazards, such as asteroid belts, comets and the favoured hunting grounds of pirate ships.
If the convoy is unfortunate enough to encounter pirates or other aggressors, the Stalwarts turn their laser batteries onto the enemy. Compared to the average sub-stellar pirate ship or the rag-tag entourage of a planetary governor, a squadron of Stalwarts is a fearsome foe indeed.
As a specialist convoy escort ship, the Stalwart is fitted with powerful blind field generators. These throw out a massive field of wide-spectrum electro-magnetic interference. To the naked eye, this appears as something like a dark cloud of dense fog which is impossible to see through. It has a similar effect on the sophisticated technology of spaceship targeting systems, preventing accurate shooting of any weapons either into or through the blind field.
The blind field provides complete protection for the merchant vessels behind it It also makes the Stalwart itself an almost impossible target. And as the enemy ship closes with the Stalwart in an attempt to penetrate the blind field, it comes within range of the Stalwart's own lasers.

- A sub-stellar ship, probably a Naval sub-stellar warship, given that it is supposed to be more powerful than the "average" Planetary governor's sub-stellar ships.
- "Blind field generators" seem to be some sort of wide-area (thousands or tens of thousands of kilometers?) cloaking device, degrading the effectiveness of targeting systems as well as obscuring visual/optical tracking (not so much as being invisible as looking like a "fog/cloud".)

[Connor MacLeod]

In parrticular regard to the "plasma fuel", I should note two things:

1.) The "1000x nuclear fusion energy density" interpretation would conveniently help explain the oddities I'm experieincin in trying to estimate power generation/fuel mass based on the estimated accecleration rates from Sabbat Marttyr (I keep coming up shortt on fuel mass for some reason.. I think I might have to spend time chatting with Ender on this...)

2.) Since the 500-600 GT 'space hulk torpedo' calc refers to, IIRC, a nuclear device, we can infer that since "modern" torpedoes run on plasma reactors/warheads, that a plasma torpedo is around 100-1000x more destructive (the 100x I get is inferring that plasma fuel releases annihilatio-scale energies, ie 9e16 joules rather than the 6e17 joules. Since fusion is about 100x less powerful than antimatter... you get the idea..)

Either way you really end up with multi-TT torpedoes (or maybe low TT/High GT submuitions, ,at least... but this also means they probably can carry ALOT of submuitions.. thousands..)

(by extension, the detonation of the Nova cannon is about 12 times more destructive than a single torpedo)

[Imperial Overlord]

BFG confirms that most sector ships are smaller than naval capitalship and usually built and commanded by the Imperial Commander governing the system. The navy also employes such vessels to guard valuable systems and naval assets.

The torpedo in question is a cluster device. It is an Apocalypse class nuclear missle and spreads a salvo of 112 five gigaton nuclear warheads (from Space Hulk). The standard plasma torpedo is more of a threat to most ships.

The description of shield systems is consistent with Titanicus void shield rules and any differences between BFG rules won't be the result of technological advance as the Imperium is mostly in a state of technological stagnation. The shield rating statistics on a BFG ship is a game mechanic (cruisers only carry 2) and each turn is fairly long. The BFG rules are therefore an approximation of what happens. Void shields will take a pounding, dissipate energy, perhaps some generators will overload while others take up the slack, and then come back on line. If the whole shield network overloads the hull will be exposed to enemy fire, but the shields can be brought back up fairly quickly. Under Titanicus rules, overloaded generators could disipaite their energy reactiviated fairly quickly (you would roll to see how many VSGs were recovered every turn) and that would be roughly consistent with BFG game mechanics.

Tyrant: BFG stats it as a cruiser with torpedoes and a respectable broadside weapon batteries. Variants include superior range broadside batteries and a nova cannon replacing the torpedoes. (BFG 110)

Dominator: Heavy, close range broadside and prow nova cannon (BFG 111). It's a beast

Dictator: Now a carrier.

A power ram is a modification of Imperial ships that can be found in optional rules. The heavier armour and more powerful forward shields (which protect the ship when making nova cannon and torpedo attacks, weapons most Imperial capital ships possess) does lend itself to ramming.

[NecronLord]

Right. So I'm starting to update this thread again. I've added some material from Connor's Caves of Ice thread, and will be adding more updates soon. If anyone has any requests for any areas they'd like modernised first, feel free to post them here.

[Connor MacLeod]

I'll see if I can help by linking you to the various threads I've done NL.. I should be able to do that.

I suppose I could get around to "indexing" some of the stuff Ihave (the misc thread in particular) but that's going to be a huge pain in the butt and I'd probably have to put the analysis part off for even longer.

[Balrog]

I've some material I've been sharing with Connor, but I'll send them your way as well to help out.

[Cykeisme]

In short story Ancient History in Let the Galaxy Burn, what exactly was Kron?

His mind appeared to be subservient in some way to his cybernetic implants, he had the power to defeat a Chaos Astartes, and at the end the protagonist stipulated that he might be a traveller who is just taking the guise of a warship crewman in the course of his journeys.

What is he?


Apologies if this is necroing or the inappropriate place to post.. I didn't think a short question like that would warrant the creation of a new thread, though.

[Connor MacLeod]

My guess is he's heavily augmentic, possibly a renegade Techpriest or Electropriest, my guess would be the latter. (We see them in Soul Drinkers, and they manage to do some harm to them as well.)

[NecronLord]

He's the Deceiver.

Nah, I just thought you might enjoy that. I expect he's some kind of techpriest thing.

[Connor MacLeod]

As I recall, Andy Chambers wrote that story, ,and he's got a thing for "out there" tech priests

[Cykeisme]

Ah, somehow that didn't cross my mind.

It threw me off that he was on opposing sides with the Luminen AdMech agent (Kendrikson), so somehow I figured he had to be something else. The thought didn't hit me that he could be a renegade AdMechy fellow.

Just as an interesting note, he survived a couple of torso hits from an Astartes-sized bolter! Considering analyses of boltgun firepower, that's no small achievement.

Still I expect that if the Chaos Astartes boarder had known he wasn't dealing with an ordinary ship crewman (and therefore wasn't taken by surprise), the servant of the Ruinous Powers could have won easily by putting out more firepower and/or getting into limb-rending close combat.

Any thoughts about his head/eye implant seeming to enslave his mind?

He's the Deceiver.

!!!!!

[Connor MacLeod]

His durability/ability to take on an Astartes depends greatly on the kinds of implants he might have. HE could very well resist bolter fire (some sort of dermal armor) as well as being physically able to fight with Astartes hand to hand - enhanced strength is not the sole province of the Space Marines after all, or their only talent (We've seen Admech Magos that could take a Space Marine apart handily - cf Dark Apostle.)

[Cykeisme]

It's canon, I know, but it all seems a bit odd to me.

If there were implants that gave that kind of power, why don't at least some Astartes have such modifications, too?
And how would implants that fit onto the human frame offer more durability, strength, or power output than an eight to ten foot tall suit of armor?

[PeZook]

If there were implants that gave that kind of power, why don't at least some Astartes have such modifications, too?

They do? I thought bionics weren't rare amongst space marines.

Their power armor is arguably one huge bionic implant

[Imperial Overlord]

If there were implants that gave that kind of power, why don't at least some Astartes have such modifications, too?

Some do. Iron Hands are famous for it. High end bionics are hard to come by. A Magos is at the top of the list to get his hands on them. Marine augments, on the other hand, are available in quantity from the chapter.

And how would implants that fit onto the human frame offer more durability, strength, or power output than an eight to ten foot tall suit of armor?

Because even enhanced meat is still meat, while metal is metal. Even enhanced flesh and and ceremite laced bone isn't as tough as steel and adamantine. Astartes implants do reproduce themselves and their effects are potent. Also, unlike cybermagos, an Astartes who is shot five times and lives can be easily treated with a medic (supposing he doesn't heal naturally) instead of needing parts from a world a hundred light years away. Astartes implants include all sorts of handy things that a magos's cyber body can't do, such as not needing sleep for days on end and being virtually immune to disease.

[white_rabbit]

Just as an interesting note, he survived a couple of torso hits from an Astartes-sized bolter! Considering analyses of boltgun firepower, that's no small achievement.

Well, if you've read Souldrinker, the guy's capabilities aren't exactly a far cry from the abilities of Electro-Priests, who are essentially elite shock troops (hur hur hur!)

Physical resistence to bolter fire, enhanced physical strength, some sort of directed energy attack, the ability to kill a marine with their bare hands etc.

Any thoughts about his head/eye implant seeming to enslave his mind?

Could be loads of things, we can speculate endlessly, renegade sentience from the Dark Ages, Machine spirit that evolved beyond its strict limits, the guy play-acting, a daemon, alien entity etc.

If there were implants that gave that kind of power, why don't at least some Astartes have such modifications, too?

The same reason normal humans don't have all the cool stuff Astartes have, its expensive in time and resources to build and maintain, and you have to pry cool stuff out of the adeptus mechanicus with a thousand metre long crowbar made out of unobtainium.

[NecronLord]

Astartes implants include all sorts of handy things that a magos's cyber body can't do, such as not needing sleep for days on end and being virtually immune to disease.

To be fair, the magos in question, IIRC, had a servitor linked to him at times to purge him of disease - and given that he could take halves of his brain out and replace them with ones containing different skills, I imagine he can do the rest one half of the brain at a time thing.


Of course, he wasn't an ordinary magos. He was an army commander in an influential ({seemingly} anti-necron) faction. Despite his rather pedestrian ranking, he had an imperator titan and an ordinatus at his command.

[Falkenhayn]

And how would implants that fit onto the human frame offer more durability, strength, or power output than an eight to ten foot tall suit of armor?

Space Marines don't necessarily have the best goodies. Wolfblade is informative in this respect, in that there's a specific branch of the Inquisition which researches the best way to kill SM. It stands to reason that they'd find a way to build up a human to do the job, even if "human" is a relative term after their done. The Astartes are oblivious to the existence of this faction for obvious reasons, and protecting the IoM from treacherous Astartes cut a lot of red tape between the =I=, the AdMech, and the Adeptus Terra.

In the instance of Xenothan, an "Imperial Assassin", he had armor capable of resisting a Chainsword implanted under his skin, and the strength to resist the blow through muscular-skeletal augmentations and some pretty ferocious combat drugs. He was also capable of moving a span of yards and breaking a windpipe in the time it took a professional bodyguard to move his hand to his pistol but not draw it. So quite comparable to an SM, but visibly indistinguishable from a human.

[Imperial Overlord]

To be fair, the magos in question, IIRC, had a servitor linked to him at times to purge him of disease - and given that he could take halves of his brain out and replace them with ones containing different skills, I imagine he can do the rest one half of the brain at a time thing.


Of course, he wasn't an ordinary magos. He was an army commander in an influential ({seemingly} anti-necron) faction. Despite his rather pedestrian ranking, he had an imperator titan and an ordinatus at his command.

So we're talking dedicated servitors and obscenely high end brain augmentations on top of a top of the line cyber body. His augmentations probably cost more than a squad of Astartes.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

I just got hold of the latest Horus Heresy novel Battle for the Abyss and it mentions a few capital ship weapons. Should I wait a while for people to read it to even write it as a spoiler or?