Lord of the Rings : Battle rediculous (spoilers)

Omega-13 · Post by **Omega-13** » 2003-12-19 02:55am

Just got back from the 10 pm show, after 3 and a half hours of watching the fat hobbit cry,
I couldn't help but squirm in my seat at the battle of Gondor.

How in the living shit, did the Gondor army not get crushed BEFORE the ghost army appeared?

Those elephants (which must have weighed 500 tons) were being taken down, the skin on them alone must have been a foot thick, nevermind the muscle and fat....

I think the entire battle was rediculous,
anyone else feel this way?

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2003-12-19 02:57am

Omega-13 wrote:*snip*

Did you miss the thread in the Fantasy forum dedicated to this discussion?

Icehawk · Post by **Icehawk** » 2003-12-19 02:58am

Omega-13 wrote:Just got back from the 10 pm show, after 3 and a half hours of watching the fat hobbit cry,
I couldn't help but squirm in my seat at the battle of Gondor.

How in the living shit, did the Gondor army not get crushed BEFORE the ghost army appeared?

Those elephants (which must have weighed 500 tons) were being taken down, the skin on them alone must have been a foot thick, nevermind the muscle and fat....

I think the entire battle was rediculous,
anyone else feel this way?

I do, but only in the sense that I feel the complete polar opposite of that. and that the I felt the entire battle was absofuckinglutely amazing

Sporkzen · Post by **Sporkzen** » 2003-12-19 10:23am

I think it was fanfuckingtastic personally. Over the top can be a very good thing sometimes when done right

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2003-12-19 10:31am

I had to move this with my eyes closed so I wouldn't get spoiled ... *grumble*

Robert Treder · Post by **Robert Treder** » 2003-12-19 06:21pm

I did think that at least one of the Oliphants was taken down a little too easily (the one that Eowyn sliced with her sword; it's skin seemed a little thicker than that...), but overall the battle seemed pretty cool, even if it was just guys running into each other. It was certainly better than Helm's Deep, and CERTAINLY better than Matrix Revolutions.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2003-12-19 06:36pm

Instead of the disciplined Uruk-Hai spear wall (which would have broken the charge of the Rohirrim cold if not for the fact that Gandalf broke the wall with his magic), the Mordor-orcs formed a loose, ragged wall of short spears which in no way was going to stop a horse charge. And they found out in short order what happens when infantry fights cavalry at such close ranges.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-12-19 08:40pm

Iceberg wrote:Instead of the disciplined Uruk-Hai spear wall (which would have broken the charge of the Rohirrim cold if not for the fact that Gandalf broke the wall with his magic), the Mordor-orcs formed a loose, ragged wall of short spears which in no way was going to stop a horse charge. And they found out in short order what happens when infantry fights cavalry at such close ranges.

The Mordor-orcs were also rather undisciplined. I mean, they broke rather readily; the Uruk-Hai only broke after their lines were completely rent.

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2003-12-19 09:29pm

I would have watched, but I kept looking for Waldo....

No really I thought the ghosts merely running into people to kill them was pathetic, and the entire battle looked, fake, instead of the Battle of Helms Deep which looked cool, real, and had a dramatic background behind it.

Ubiquitous · Post by **Ubiquitous** » 2003-12-19 09:43pm

Omega-13 wrote:Just got back from the 10 pm show, after 3 and a half hours of watching the fat hobbit cry,
I couldn't help but squirm in my seat at the battle of Gondor.

How in the living shit, did the Gondor army not get crushed BEFORE the ghost army appeared?

Those elephants (which must have weighed 500 tons) were being taken down, the skin on them alone must have been a foot thick, nevermind the muscle and fat....

I think the entire battle was rediculous,
anyone else feel this way?

Geesh, it's a fantasy film. LOTR never pretends to be anything but fantasy. I thought the movie was breathtaking and the battles key moments in cinema history, but that's just me.

Jadeite · Post by **Jadeite** » 2003-12-20 01:35am

The battle and siege got tedious to watch and rather unbelievable at parts. It seemed neither side really had all that much discipline, there were so many scenes of Gondorian troops running like hell.

Jim Raynor · Post by **Jim Raynor** » 2003-12-20 02:55am

Iceberg wrote:Instead of the disciplined Uruk-Hai spear wall (which would have broken the charge of the Rohirrim cold if not for the fact that Gandalf broke the wall with his magic), the Mordor-orcs formed a loose, ragged wall of short spears which in no way was going to stop a horse charge. And they found out in short order what happens when infantry fights cavalry at such close ranges.

Wouldn't this highlight the superiority of the Uruk-hai over regular, undisciplined Orcs? I did think that some parts of the battle were hard to believe (Eowyn cutting down elephants with her sword, and beating the head Nazgul), but overall it was amazing.

m112880 · Post by **m112880** » 2003-12-20 11:11am

The battle and siege got tedious to watch and rather unbelievable at parts. It seemed neither side really had all that much discipline, there were so many scenes of Gondorian troops running like hell.

Cant say I blame them. Their leader was nuts.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2003-12-20 11:35am

Jim Raynor wrote:
Iceberg wrote:Instead of the disciplined Uruk-Hai spear wall (which would have broken the charge of the Rohirrim cold if not for the fact that Gandalf broke the wall with his magic), the Mordor-orcs formed a loose, ragged wall of short spears which in no way was going to stop a horse charge. And they found out in short order what happens when infantry fights cavalry at such close ranges.
Wouldn't this highlight the superiority of the Uruk-hai over regular, undisciplined Orcs? I did think that some parts of the battle were hard to believe (Eowyn cutting down elephants with her sword, and beating the head Nazgul), but overall it was amazing.

Eowyn beating the Lord of the Nazgul was in the book, silly hobbitses! In fact, that fight was filmed virtually as written (the dialogue was tightened up so it would make more sense in the span of a film fight, but that was virtually the only change I could spot).

Super-Gagme · Post by **Super-Gagme** » 2003-12-20 11:47am

I thought the battle was boring, useless, visually impressive, waste of my time. It had no direction, it seemed like the orcs just stood around for the battle while some artillery fired and trolls attacked the city. How many orcs were there? 60,000? They did NOTHING. They ran at the impact of 6,000 calvalry (umm no, that is about bullshit) without much of a fight. The Oliphants were a bit over the top the way they were depicted on screen. Helms Deep felt more real and awsome, Gondor was.. bleh

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2003-12-20 12:18pm

The Forces of Mordor were some forty-five thousand strong, to about five thousand defenders in Gondor, another six thousand Rohirrim reinforcements and a thousand rangers who arrived with Aragorn.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-12-20 03:19pm

Iceberg wrote:The Forces of Mordor were some forty-five thousand strong, to about five thousand defenders in Gondor, another six thousand Rohirrim reinforcements and a thousand rangers who arrived with Aragorn.

Going by the book, at least. The movie battle differed considerably.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-12-20 07:06pm

Is it just me (I doubt it is) or was the battle of Gondor closer to 60,000 men from Rohan fighting about two million Orcs, as opposed to the claimed 6000 men from Rohan against 200,000 Orcs?

As for the Oliphants, they indeed would have been near totally immune to arrows any everything else short of siege weapons. Though they also probably wouldn't have stomped through cavalry so willingly. It seemed like the things got way smaller in the close-ups, and espically after being killed.

But anyway the battle was okay, but it was dull comapred ot Helms Deep dispite all that battles stupidity, and the ending invincible swarm of undead warriors cleaning the fielding in less then two minutes was just stupid. They could have at least had to fight the Orcs, rather then simply wading through them.

Robert Treder · Post by **Robert Treder** » 2003-12-20 11:21pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:It seemed like the things got way smaller in the close-ups, and espically after being killed.

I hella noticed that too. When they were first introduced in the charge (and in TTT too), they seemed freaking 4-5 stories tall, but in some scenes they were more like 2-3 stories tall. Maybe some were babies, but I fucking doubt it.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-12-20 11:56pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:Is it just me (I doubt it is) or was the battle of Gondor closer to 60,000 men from Rohan fighting about two million Orcs, as opposed to the claimed 6000 men from Rohan against 200,000 Orcs?

It seemed that way, but the numbers should be accurate. IIRC, they fed two armies into their computer program and let them fight.

Soontir C'boath · Post by **Soontir C'boath** » 2003-12-21 01:19am

Straha wrote:No really I thought the ghosts merely running into people to kill them was pathetic, and the entire battle looked, fake, instead of the Battle of Helms Deep which looked cool, real, and had a dramatic background behind it.

I rather enjoyed the entire battle except for the Ghost part, here they were Gondor or Orc troops being flung around or crushed by huge stones, oilphants and trolls and this cheesy run through the field charging Ghost army saves the day with a damn pan out too and I'm like WTF?! If that ghost can make contact with Aragorn's sword they damn well should've stayed and fought them buggers.

Cyaround,
Jason

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-12-21 01:25am

Ghost thing was cool. It would only have been a copout if the last thing you saw was Aragorn going into the mountain and then all of a sudden he shows up with this huge ghost army out of nowhere.

They ran at the impact of 6,000 calvalry (umm no, that is about bullshit) without much of a fight

Do you know what happens when undisciplined, lightly armored infantry gets outflanked by charging heavy cavalry? They get fucking slaughtered, like in the movie.

Graeme Dice · Post by **Graeme Dice** » 2003-12-21 02:03am

Soontir C'boath wrote:I rather enjoyed the entire battle except for the Ghost part, here they were Gondor or Orc troops being flung around or crushed by huge stones, oilphants and trolls and this cheesy run through the field charging Ghost army saves the day with a damn pan out too and I'm like WTF?!

A touch is all that is needed for those dead to kill, so why would they bother doing more than that?

If that ghost can make contact with Aragorn's sword they damn well should've stayed and fought them buggers.

Aragorn's sword only made contact with the ghost's because he was the only person in the world who could command them. Anyone else would have died right then and there.

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2003-12-21 02:17am

There was at least one point where I couldn't help thinking that the defenders of Minas Tirith could have panicked the oliphants by releasing thousands of white mice onto the field.

Omega-13 · Post by **Omega-13** » 2003-12-21 03:43am

Sea Skimmer wrote:Is it just me (I doubt it is) or was the battle of Gondor closer to 60,000 men from Rohan fighting about two million Orcs, as opposed to the claimed 6000 men from Rohan against 200,000 Orcs?

Not sure on the numbers for either, but the humans were rediculously out numbered in either case, I'm surprised they lasted as long as they did, before the ghosts saved them.

As for the Oliphants, they indeed would have been near totally immune to arrows any everything else short of siege weapons. Though they also probably wouldn't have stomped through cavalry so willingly. It seemed like the things got way smaller in the close-ups, and espically after being killed.

probably just a CGI scaling error. Oliphants were so enormous, the feet would be so padded, and carrying so much momentum, why do you think they coudln't have stomped over the cavalry, it would be like us running over tomatos.

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Lord of the Rings : Battle rediculous (spoilers)

Lord of the Rings : Battle rediculous (spoilers)

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