Sauron vs Tom

lgot · Post by **lgot** » 2003-10-26 12:08pm

On the contrary, they are the only people with informations - Elrond and Gandalf does seems to agree with them and they are the fewe people with some notion (Just because we do not have access to their information source, does not mean there is not one) of the power of Sauron and Tom.
Turns even harder when they are the only informaiton we have about the subject, any opinion in contrary is less crediable than theirs..

Smiling Bandit · Post by **Smiling Bandit** » 2003-10-28 11:10am

We can safely assume that the Balrog would be able to wield the Ring and gain tremendous power from it, but since Tolkien never broached the subject, or at least I never have seen it, we cannot know if the Ring would effect the Balrog's mind and personality the same way it effected everyone else, which is the question at hand. My guess is that it would, since it appeared that he was just as bound to his body as any wizard, but that is a guess.

The balrog was already horrifically evil, a true demon of Melkor, one of the most powerful beings in Middle Earth. What was the Ring going to make him do or think? That he should be eviller? If he'd had the chance, he probably would have tried to do what Sauron did.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2003-10-28 01:37pm

Smiling Bandit wrote:The balrog was already horrifically evil, a true demon of Melkor, one of the most powerful beings in Middle Earth. What was the Ring going to make him do or think? That he should be eviller? If he'd had the chance, he probably would have tried to do what Sauron did.

I'm thinking that the Balrog would get visions of becoming the next Gothmog and go stomping around Middle Earth for a while before visiting Barad-dur and evicting Sauron. It's possible that without the Ring, the Durin's Bane might have recognized Saurons authority as being a higher up, but once it got the Ring, it would almost certainly decide to promote himself to second in command of Team Morgoth.

Smiling Bandit · Post by **Smiling Bandit** » 2003-10-29 08:06am

Well, yeah, but the post I responded to implied he was going to find himself corrupted and more "eeeeeeeevvvviiiiillllllll!" And I was sort of wondering how you can get more evil than demonic fire devil trying to murder holy wizard-angel and so forth.

nightmare · Post by **nightmare** » 2003-10-29 01:59pm

IIRC, Tom said that he had no more power over the ring than it had over him.

Typhonis 1 · Post by **Typhonis 1** » 2003-10-29 03:29pm

Wasn`t in one of Frodos visions (( he was sitting on the throne with the ring)) of the darkness covering all of Middle Earth save for a spot of light that was Bombadills home??

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-10-29 04:42pm

Typhonis 1 wrote:Wasn`t in one of Frodos visions (( he was sitting on the throne with the ring)) of the darkness covering all of Middle Earth save for a spot of light that was Bombadills home??

Yes to the vision, no about it being Tom. It was Gandalf giving Frodo some telepathic attaboys.

Johonebesus · Post by **Johonebesus** » 2003-10-29 05:10pm

Smiling Bandit wrote:Well, yeah, but the post I responded to implied he was going to find himself corrupted and more "eeeeeeeevvvviiiiillllllll!" And I was sort of wondering how you can get more evil than demonic fire devil trying to murder holy wizard-angel and so forth.

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear, but that is not what I said at all. It's not a question of his becoming more evil, for the Ring did more than just make people evil. It did not simply corrupt them, but it enslaved them, dominating their minds and hearts. The question is if the balrog would be similarly ensnared by the Ring, or if he could totally bend the Ring to his will. We really don't know just how strong a will the balrog had.

Smiling Bandit · Post by **Smiling Bandit** » 2003-10-30 10:05am

It's not a question of his becoming more evil, for the Ring did more than just make people evil. It did not simply corrupt them, but it enslaved them, dominating their minds and hearts.

Sort of. The Ring coudn't enslave or control people by itself , but it could make them obsessed with it. You are, after all, holding a large chunk of Sauron in your hand, vastly more powerful than any weapon. I'm sure the Balrog wouldn't want to lose it.

baelfire1945 · Post by **baelfire1945** » 2003-11-04 03:11am

MHO: Let's say, hypothetically, that it came down to Sauron and Tom in a fight, one on one, Sauron with the Ring. The Ring would be irrelevant (according to Gandalf in FotR, it has no power over Tom), so it becomes a simple matter of whether you think Tom could own Sauron in a duel. I think it would be interesting, but I also think that Sauron would win in the end. He would probably just send his armies against Tom, who would be unable to hold out forever, so my one-on-one situation would never happen.

Smiling Bandit · Post by **Smiling Bandit** » 2003-11-04 09:44am

Not exactly. The Ring may simply have no power over him apart from Sauron. But anyway, Sauron is strong enough to kicxk the Balrog's ass back to Moria, let alone Tom Bombadil.

MrAnderson · Post by **MrAnderson** » 2003-11-05 05:19pm

The Ring had no power over Tom it could not affect him at all. The Ring though was basically a huge reservior of Saurons spirit or soul whichever he would have.

So if his very spirit can have no power over Tom then how is Sauron going to have any power?

Smiling Bandit · Post by **Smiling Bandit** » 2003-11-06 08:04am

The Ring had no power over Tom it could not affect him at all. The Ring though was basically a huge reservior of Saurons spirit or soul whichever he would have.

So if his very spirit can have no power over Tom then how is Sauron going to have any power?

The only thing the Ring alone could do is try to corrupt people. With the Ring, Sauron can supposedly command the obedience and worship of whole races. And his power without it, though undescribed, is sufficient that even Gandalf with the Ring would be at best an even fight against him.

Its the difference between a gun and an armed Marine. The gun can't urt you unles you shoot yourself. The Marine with a gun can simply point it at you and shoot.

Darth Gojira · Post by **Darth Gojira** » 2003-11-18 08:25am

http://flyingmoose.org/tolksarc/theories/bombadil.htm