Would vampires even be a threat in today's modern world?

Shortie · Post by **Shortie** » 2003-10-09 05:50am

The Duchess of Zeon wrote: Someone who's been alive for centuries could have a huge fortune, and use it to manipulate politics in the country they live in. Would you want a serial killer to have bought all the cops in the city you live in and be partying it up with the politicians in your federal capital?

Alternatively they could be just another down and out. There's this brainbug that living for a couple of centuries automatically makes you rich, but that assumes you get the money in the first place, and then don't spend it, lose it or get it taken away. What if you invested in Confederated Slave Holdings and Amalgamated Spats, or the government got suspicious the fourth time a mysterious great-nephew appeared as the only heir, or the death duties and parties in the capital fritter it all away.

Post by **haas mark** » 2003-10-09 05:57am

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:Vampires could be quite dangerous in today's world. So could serial killers. What's the difference? They're not a large-scale threat; they're a small-scale threat. Vampires could do their absolute worst and cause far less death and destruction than youth gangs or cigarettes. They would be an annoying pimple on the ass of society, not a serious threat.
Someone who's been alive for centuries could have a huge fortune, and use it to manipulate politics in the country they live in. Would you want a serial killer to have bought all the cops in the city you live in and be partying it up with the politicians in your federal capital?

A quick question.. what if these supposed vampires were inborn into today's society? What then?

I mean, they could certainly be born out of corporate presences just as easily as a menial dishwasher type person, right? Or do I have that all wrong?

~ver

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-10-09 07:04am

Vampires, a natural resource we must controll, hopefully we can extract from them the secrets to things like immortality and whatnot.

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2003-10-09 08:10am

lgot wrote:Darth_Shinji

You are not understanding. I can think and I know thousands of versions of Dracula giving options beyond the book. Expect , like all options you gave, they are beyond the book. By the Book alone he is dead. To use some familiar word - The Cannon - Stoker's Dracula ends with his death. Non-Cannon - Dracula have lived more and far than anything.

No, you miss the point, the book gives enought information some people to belive he faked his death and thats the debate. And then Bram Stoker agreed with them. Which means canon by the book dracula never died, he faked his death, and we didn't know that becuase the book is from the point of veiw of the good guy. People have come to that conclusion naturally before.

and yeah, I am waiting for this fragment. I want to see it. I ask again, is this fragment "Dracula's Guest" ? Or any other ? Where I can find it to see ?

Yes, I belive so.

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2003-10-09 08:29am

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:
Someone who's been alive for centuries could have a huge fortune, and use it to manipulate politics in the country they live in. Would you want a serial killer to have bought all the cops in the city you live in and be partying it up with the politicians in your federal capital?

Even then they still won't be much of a danger, after all, any power they have it just for one purpose: survival. He's too busy keeping himself out of the lime-light. Even these massive vampire conspiraicies are mainly interested in just maintaing the statue quo.

Though Shortie I disagree with it being a brainbug on the fact that most vampires in fiction are not that rich, a hundred years would at least have some great opputunities for riches and its very likly with vampire's with dracula powers.

Post by **haas mark** » 2003-10-09 09:19am

Darth_Shinji wrote:
The Duchess of Zeon wrote:
Someone who's been alive for centuries could have a huge fortune, and use it to manipulate politics in the country they live in. Would you want a serial killer to have bought all the cops in the city you live in and be partying it up with the politicians in your federal capital?
Even then they still won't be much of a danger, after all, any power they have it just for one purpose: survival. He's too busy keeping himself out of the lime-light. Even these massive vampire conspiraicies are mainly interested in just maintaing the statue quo.

And before several centuries, how many "recruits" do you think there may have been?

Though Shortie I disagree with it being a brainbug on the fact that most vampires in fiction are not that rich, a hundred years would at least have some great opputunities for riches and its very likly with vampire's with dracula powers.

Again.. if this were several ceturies later, as DoZ suggests, there could be vast amounts of wealth created.. are you blind to that?

~ver

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2003-10-09 10:58am

verilon wrote:
Darth_Shinji wrote:
The Duchess of Zeon wrote:
Someone who's been alive for centuries could have a huge fortune, and use it to manipulate politics in the country they live in. Would you want a serial killer to have bought all the cops in the city you live in and be partying it up with the politicians in your federal capital?
Even then they still won't be much of a danger, after all, any power they have it just for one purpose: survival. He's too busy keeping himself out of the lime-light. Even these massive vampire conspiraicies are mainly interested in just maintaing the statue quo.

And before several centuries, how many "recruits" do you think there may have been?
What exactly do you mean? Number of vampires or vampire stoogies?

Again.. if this were several ceturies later, as DoZ suggests, there could be vast amounts of wealth created.. are you blind to that?
No I'm aware of it. I even went father than DoZ suggested by bringing in the "massive conspriacy vampire organization". Most vampires are mearly going to be concerned with protecting thier habits and living cofortable. Afterall this is the perfect world for vampires already, the chances of the population of earth becoming aware of actaully vampires is slim. Why instagate change were you can be picked out?

~ver

Post by **haas mark** » 2003-10-09 11:02am

Darth_Shinji wrote:What exactly do you mean? Number of vampires or vampire stoogies?

Vampires..

No I'm aware of it. I even went father than DoZ suggested by bringing in the "massive conspriacy vampire organization". Most vampires are mearly going to be concerned with protecting thier habits and living cofortable. Afterall this is the perfect world for vampires already, the chances of the population of earth becoming aware of actaully vampires is slim. Why instagate change were you can be picked out?

Well, who says they can automatically be picked out? Eventually it will be commonplace, and no one will know the difference. They may be protecting their habits, as you say, but nothing is there to stop them from doing anything else. And as with any culture, there are sure to be radicals and rebels.

~ver

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2003-10-09 12:09pm

Would a rich vampire even want to live in the US or Europe? Anonymity is synonimous with longevity, and it strikes me as being much easier to remain anonymous somewhere like Paraguay.

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2003-10-09 12:11pm

There was a 1990 TV show called Dracula (http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0098779/) where Alexander Lucard (aka Dracula) is some kind of Lex-Lutherish businessman. Here, Vampires weren't killed by sunlight (they just couldn't use their powers, but they could still mark people necks, I think). It was a pretty funny show, there were two kids and their uncle ("Gustav Helsing") who were always trying to twart Drac's evil plans.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-10-09 01:49pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Ender wrote:They aren't human, they are the natural predators of humans. And they would fall under the same category of predators as other species.

Might be interesting if they get declared endangered though.
We'd put the vampires in zoos?

Well, I know thee is a zoo over in europe that displays humans (they pay people to live in a house on site, I read the story on Fark some months back), so I would not rule it out.

Post by **haas mark** » 2003-10-09 02:36pm

Ender wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:
Ender wrote:They aren't human, they are the natural predators of humans. And they would fall under the same category of predators as other species.

Might be interesting if they get declared endangered though.
We'd put the vampires in zoos?
Well, I know thee is a zoo over in europe that displays humans (they pay people to live in a house on site, I read the story on Fark some months back), so I would not rule it out.

Key words: THEY PAY PEOPLE. Thus making it voluntary. Animals that are in zoos are not there of their own cognition or consent.

~ver

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-10-09 02:47pm

GrandAdmiralPrawn wrote:Would a rich vampire even want to live in the US or Europe? Anonymity is synonimous with longevity, and it strikes me as being much easier to remain anonymous somewhere like Paraguay.

You know, Prawn, there are far more wealthy businessmen in the USA and Europe than in Paraguay. Being an extremely wealthy businessmen in such a country is what you might call conspicuous.

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2003-10-09 11:14pm

When the prodedure to kill them becomes blur we could always just follow Aylee's way. Rip them all to pieces.

beyond hope · Post by **beyond hope** » 2003-10-10 06:02am

I still say its going to be difficult, perhaps even impossible, to completely eradicate a vampire brood. The number one fear preying on any vampire's mind is going to be the possibility that human society will discover them and hunt them down. Our hypothetical brood of vampires has had decades or centuries to think about the problem and plan for ways to deal with discovery. They'd likely have minions in the government, especially in the police force and the coroner's office, to cover up bodies drained of blood. They'd probably want the hospitals too, both to cover up victims brought in with bite wounds and also as a convenient supply of blood. They'd also want the media covered so they can bury (pun intended) any stories (or reporters, for that matter) that would expose them. They'll also have more brainwashed minions guarding their lairs. All those minions are human, so a simple body temperature test isn't going to be enough to figure out who's who.

Despite all that, let's say that the Feds covertly attack their lairs and manage to get all but one of this hypothetical brood. Our lone survivor mind controls some bystander, flings some dirt in the trunk and gets the fuck out of Dodge. He'll have to figure that the authorities are hunting him, and that they're watching out for unusual deaths or disappearances. So, why not create some more vampires for them to hunt instead? I'm not sure what's involved in the creation of Stoker-style vampires (there must be more to it than just biting someone or all their prey would rise from the dead) but for argument's sake let's say that the process takes a week. At the end of that week our survivor leaves the new fledgling to start a brood in that town, and moves on to the next town. In a matter of months our lone vampire can create a serious infestation across an area of several states, since the new vampires will in turn create more vampires.

On the body temperature issue, I was thinking... could the vampires use electrically heated cold weather clothes to simulate body heat? Depending on where the colony is, that could make them tougher to find.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-10-10 04:42pm

verilon wrote:
Ender wrote:
Darth Wong wrote: We'd put the vampires in zoos?
Well, I know thee is a zoo over in europe that displays humans (they pay people to live in a house on site, I read the story on Fark some months back), so I would not rule it out.
Key words: THEY PAY PEOPLE. Thus making it voluntary. Animals that are in zoos are not there of their own cognition or consent.

~ver

Which has zero to do with the point, thanks for playing!

paladin · Post by **paladin** » 2003-10-10 11:58pm

BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:
GrandAdmiralPrawn wrote:So you send out a SWAT team with Predator-style goggles, dum-dum bullets, and flamethrowers, with orders to smoke anyone who's too cold. Problem solved.
Wow, what a fine idea... perfectly consistent with the American ideals of justice

Let the Roman Catholic Church handle it then. It has a different sense of justice!

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2003-10-11 12:49am

verilon wrote: Vampires..

Depends on vampires doesn't it? I would think however that vampires would be rather selective. After all, the only real proof of your existence is another real-life vampire.

Well, who says they can automatically be picked out? Eventually it will be commonplace, and no one will know the difference.

Hopefully yes. But there is the possibility of being discovered. Right now this society is perfect for a vampire, even a hobo one could live in near perfect safety. Change is not really going to give vampires much, nothing to really gain, everything to lose.

They may be protecting their habits, as you say, but nothing is there to stop them from doing anything else. And as with any culture, there are sure to be radicals and rebels.

~ver

Well there is something stopping them. Other vampires. What few renegades exist will have to deal with possible very influencal vampires who like things the way they are, and will treat any Deacon Frosts as a extreme menace. And unlike any other culture, no one is born into it. Any new member is the informed decision of another vampire. And there's going to be pressure from the vampire community on all vampires to pick someone smart (Or at least loyal) in order to keep yourselves alive.

lgot · Post by **lgot** » 2003-10-11 12:58am

Darth Shinji :

Do you reliase how contraditory is to say "the book gives enought information some people to belive he faked his death " then to say "Which means canon by the book dracula never died, he faked his death, and we didn't know that becuase the book is from the point of veiw of the good guy"...
Now, then I ask,you said you can find such fragment easily in the net, such "short story", have you not a link ? Cannt you be sure if it is "Dracula's Guest" (that is all i could find) in the end...
I am really curious about such matter.

Post by **haas mark** » 2003-10-11 01:34am

Darth_Shinji wrote:Depends on vampires doesn't it? I would think however that vampires would be rather selective. After all, the only real proof of your existence is another real-life vampire.

Of course they would be selective. And what do you mean by the other statement?

Well there is something stopping them. Other vampires. What few renegades exist will have to deal with possible very influencal vampires who like things the way they are, and will treat any Deacon Frosts as a extreme menace. And unlike any other culture, no one is born into it. Any new member is the informed decision of another vampire. And there's going to be pressure from the vampire community on all vampires to pick someone smart (Or at least loyal) in order to keep yourselves alive.

True this, but as with any culture, there are sub-cultures.. So who knows what could really happen? I mean, if these subculture vampires start taking over different American subcultures, then there would definitely be a problem, because they could still remain hidden. Inherent problems with this, of course, but there are always possibilities.

~ver

dworkin · Post by **dworkin** » 2003-10-11 11:10am

I see them ending up like any other immigrant. They'll have their own shops, sell novelty items from wherever they're from and Pat Robertson would regularly denounce them as minions of the devil.

Just like everyone else.

Post by **haas mark** » 2003-10-11 11:13am

Ender wrote:Which has zero to do with the point, thanks for playing!

You're implying that they would live in zoos. And since they pay people to live in some zoo-like places, that makes the point of the zoos null. So you would force the vamps into the zoos like animals, who have no cognitive or consensual reason to be there.

~ver