Comparing god-like beings

[Setzer]

I remember the "Middle Earth vs. Narnia" thread a while back. I argued that since Aslan represents Jesus, he would have all God's powers. At that point it was argued that if we were going to used god-like beings, the Valar would be included. Well, I have settled on a way to decide which gods would be more powerful, and this can apply to any scenario.

In the Terry Pratchett book "Small Gods", it is stated that the power of a god/goddess is directly influenced by the number of believers a god has. Therefore, when comparing god-like beings, we should take into account thee number of believers they have. When the Christian God is being compared to another god, Jehovah gets a belief sum of roughly 2 billion (not counting Jews and Muslims, although they technically worship the same god) When Jews and Muslims are factored in to Jehovah's Belief Sum (or BS. I know this group's athiests will have no compunctions about matching Jehovah and BS )
God gets a rating of roughly 3 billion (I don't know how many Jews there are worldwide) Compare this to say, Om. IIRC, Omnia comprises some 2 million citizens. Therefore, in a case of God vs. Om, God wins.

Now, for someone to factor into a god's BS, they have to believe that god exists. They don't necessarily have to worship that god. Take Q. Picard believes Q exists, even though he doesn't worship him.

An outright worshipper of a god adds twice as much to a BS, on the grounds that their belief is stronger.

I will change this as necessary.

[SirNitram]

Divinities will be rated by their demonstrated/stated powers. The deity Torm, for example, has done most of what the Christian God has done in the past few thousand years, yet he has a few thousand worshippers at best.

[Setzer]

Are there any extenuating circumstances? For example, what kind of opponents does Torm have?

[SirNitram]

Are there any extenuating circumstances? For example, what kind of opponents does Torm have?

The most notable was Bane, God Of Tyranny, who Torm took down in one-on-one combat(This was a situation full of extenuating circumstances, however), but Torm has demonstrated on normal times to be capable of raising the dead, hearing his name being uttered anywhere, teleporting, teleporting across planar boundaries, creating some material, and fighting like, well, a God. Keep in mind we only have Jehovah's word that he made the Universe.

On the converse, the deity Ao from Forgotten Realms receives no belief whatsoever! Yet, he did create the Universe(Witnesses involve thirteen shadow demons), create multiple Gods from nothing, promote Gods, demote Gods, kill Gods, ressurect Gods, and be completely immune to any reprisal from them. This is clearly beyond the Christian God, who can only create Angels, yet he has no believers(Only a debating club in Waterdeep).

[Xon]

On the converse, the deity Ao from Forgotten Realms receives no belief whatsoever! Yet, he did create the Universe(Witnesses involve thirteen shadow demons), create multiple Gods from nothing, promote Gods, demote Gods, kill Gods, ressurect Gods, and be completely immune to any reprisal from them.

Actually, how canon are the Forgotten Realms novels?

If the Forgotten Realms novels are canon (since the people who own the Forgotten Realms control who publishes books in that universe), then Ao definatly has a creator, and definatly was not immune to any reprisal from them.

A God when insane & believe he could challenge Ao, when Ao confronted him, all the other gods & Ao all decided the insane god was more powerful than Ao. When that god came to his senses(ie wasnt insane), his 'power' returned to 'normal'.

So this basicly states that in the Forgotten Realms, a god's power is directly related to the about of belief in their powers.

Now it has been a while since I read that series(I can try & dig up the series name & see if I still have the book), and I dont know much about the Forgotten Realms canon policy, so that might all be bullshit or not.

[SirNitram]

On the converse, the deity Ao from Forgotten Realms receives no belief whatsoever! Yet, he did create the Universe(Witnesses involve thirteen shadow demons), create multiple Gods from nothing, promote Gods, demote Gods, kill Gods, ressurect Gods, and be completely immune to any reprisal from them.

Actually, how canon are the Forgotten Realms novels?

It goes...

Core Books -> Setting Books -> Novels -> Adventures as of TSR/WOTC's last comments.

If the Forgotten Realms novels are canon (since the people who own the Forgotten Realms control who publishes books in that universe), then Ao definatly has a creator, and definatly was not immune to any reprisal from them.

Yes, the Luminous Being. This is largely a series of unknowns, however.

A God when insane & believe he could challenge Ao, when Ao confronted him, all the other gods & Ao all decided the insane god was more powerful than Ao. When that god came to his senses(ie wasnt insane), his 'power' returned to 'normal'.

Which book? This sounds like Crucible: Trial Of Cyric The Mad, which I largely dismiss as being lies told by Cyric.

So this basicly states that in the Forgotten Realms, a god's power is directly related to the about of belief in their powers.

Ao specifically rewrote Reality to conform to this after the Time Of Troubles(Epilogue, Waterdeep)

Now it has been a while since I read that series(I can try & dig up the series name & see if I still have the book), and I dont know much about the Forgotten Realms canon policy, so that might all be bullshit or not.

Again, it sounds like Crucible, which is basically one guy's writing what he saw and what Cyric told him, so I think that's Cyric telling lies(He is God of Lies, after all).

[Peregrin Toker]

Divinities will be rated by their demonstrated/stated powers. The deity Torm, for example, has done most of what the Christian God has done in the past few thousand years, yet he has a few thousand worshippers at best.

However - what if we only have the scripture of these gods' religions to judge by and not deeds confirmed to have been done by these gods? Should we then judge by hearsay?? (I suppose this, since appealing to the deities' popularity seems somewhat irrational)

And what about gods who operate under pseudonyms? (eg. the Chaos Gods of Warhammer, and Nyarlathotep from H.P. Lovecraft's mythology who is better known as Satan)

[SirNitram]

Divinities will be rated by their demonstrated/stated powers. The deity Torm, for example, has done most of what the Christian God has done in the past few thousand years, yet he has a few thousand worshippers at best.

However - what if we only have the scripture of these gods' religions to judge by and not deeds confirmed to have been done by these gods? Should we then judge by hearsay?? (I suppose this, since appealing to the deities' popularity seems somewhat irrational)

A difficult question, and I'm not sure. I'd say anything done with a large number of witnesses should be fair game, myself, but I'm sure others will have their opinions to share.

And what about gods who operate under pseudonyms? (eg. the Chaos Gods of Warhammer, and Nyarlathotep from H.P. Lovecraft's mythology who is better known as Satan)

Again, I don't know. I suppose if we can put reasonable proof to it's them doing things, it should count.

[Tasoth]

I think, not real clear on this, that the Warhammer chaos gods feed off their traits. Like nurgle gains powers through epidemics even if he's not responsible. I do know that champions greatly increase their god's power through their deeds.

[LadyTevar]

I think, not real clear on this, that the Warhammer chaos gods feed off their traits. Like nurgle gains powers through epidemics even if he's not responsible. I do know that champions greatly increase their god's power through their deeds.

In theory, wouldn't a Champion be the god's most fervent believer, and that god's agent? If so, it simply makes sense that the Champion's deeds would increase that god's power, as well as cause an increase in morale/belief among the god's followers... which again, increases the god's power.