How does Latveria stay independent?

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MKSheppard
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How does Latveria stay independent?

Post by MKSheppard »

I mean, Doom might be an evil genius, but one guy and a bunch of robot duplicators can't stop a few Soviet Tank Armies from stomping him flat and overthrowing the tyrannical Latverian Monarchy for the proletariat, or the US pulling off a coup to oust him. That's one of the biggest mysteries of the Marvelverse, why there seems to be no real politics or international events going on at all.
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Post by Superman »

To me the biggest Marvelverse mystery is `why the fuck do people hate mutants so much even after they save people? Why are super heros hated? With the way we worship celebrities, people would literally WORSHIP these types...especially if they are saving people.
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Post by Rye »

Even more confusing than other militaries not invading him is why countries like the US have Latverian embassies! Latveria simply must have some resource that the US is dependent on, or the US knows about the cosmic cube making ability and don't want to offend him.
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Post by Chmee »

Doomie does under-the-table deals for the superpowers, and nobody else will screw with him.
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Post by MKSheppard »

Chmee wrote:Doomie does under-the-table deals for the superpowers, and nobody else will screw with him.
Even doing under the table deals is no gurantee of your longevity; Coup Counter Coup were fairly common in the cold war.
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Post by MKSheppard »

Stupid thought, but WHERE IS Latvia? If it's in the balkans, it was either allied with the Axis (and got curbstomped by the Red Army in 1945), or was conquered by Hitler. Which makes the monarchy of Latvia a very odd thing indeed to exist; because postwar the Soviets just created people's republics in the balkans ruled by Tito, et al
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Re: How does Latveria stay independent?

Post by Cosmic Average »

MKSheppard wrote:I mean, Doom might be an evil genius, but one guy and a bunch of robot duplicators can't stop a few Soviet Tank Armies from stomping him flat and overthrowing the tyrannical Latverian Monarchy for the proletariat, or the US pulling off a coup to oust him. That's one of the biggest mysteries of the Marvelverse, why there seems to be no real politics or international events going on at all.
Nukes. During one of the periods when Doom was dead(The Unthinkable sotryarc), the Fantastic Four went to Latveria. They stumbled on a military installation that was filled with nuke-tipped ballistic missles.
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Re: How does Latveria stay independent?

Post by Stofsk »

Cosmic Average wrote:Nukes. During one of the periods when Doom was dead(The Unthinkable sotryarc), the Fantastic Four went to Latveria. They stumbled on a military installation that was filled with nuke-tipped ballistic missles.
You make it sound like the missiles were hidden from prying eyes, if the FF just happened to stumble onto them. For a nuclear deterrant to have any effect their existence must be KNOWN. What good is it having all these ballistic missiles to threaten aggressors with, if you don't allow them to know your own capabilities?
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Re: How does Latveria stay independent?

Post by SAMAS »

MKSheppard wrote:I mean, Doom might be an evil genius, but one guy and a bunch of robot duplicators can't stop a few Soviet Tank Armies from stomping him flat and overthrowing the tyrannical Latverian Monarchy for the proletariat, or the US pulling off a coup to oust him. That's one of the biggest mysteries of the Marvelverse, why there seems to be no real politics or international events going on at all.
Doom keeps his power for several reasons:

#1: He is the foremost Supervillian in the Marvel Universe. And by that I mean that he has an impressive win record against everybody, from Spider-Man to the Avengers. Hell, he's actually managed to conquer the world a few times, only to voluntarily give it up. In other words, you don't just mess around with a guy who's beaten your ass before unless you have a real good reason. Even if you steamroll into the country, you can expect a personal visit from Doom within the week, and either the speedy removal of your forces, or your even speedier (and far more painful)death.

#2: Latveria is rediculously High-Tech. Generally several levels above any other country with the possible exception of Wakanda(Black Panther's nation). Doom doesn't just have a handful of duplicates, he has an entire army of high-tech robot soldiers.

#3: Unlike other dictators, Doom takes care of his people, and looks out for their best intrests. As a result, he is generally loved by the populace. Dooms rule may be strict, but he is mostly fair. Hell, he once found himself in a future Earth, and actually became President of the United States and restored democracy to the nation, all for the sake of improving the lot of the people of Latveria. So starting a coup is a very difficult proposition.
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Re: How does Latveria stay independent?

Post by SAMAS »

Stofsk wrote:
Cosmic Average wrote:Nukes. During one of the periods when Doom was dead(The Unthinkable sotryarc), the Fantastic Four went to Latveria. They stumbled on a military installation that was filled with nuke-tipped ballistic missles.
You make it sound like the missiles were hidden from prying eyes, if the FF just happened to stumble onto them. For a nuclear deterrant to have any effect their existence must be KNOWN. What good is it having all these ballistic missiles to threaten aggressors with, if you don't allow them to know your own capabilities?
I think he's mentioning it to show that it's there. Doom has access to some frightening resources, combined with a really high IQ, plus his mystical knowledge.
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Post by Joe »

Superman wrote:To me the biggest Marvelverse mystery is `why the fuck do people hate mutants so much even after they save people?
During WWII, The Tuskegee Airmen were some of the best pilots in the army Air Corps. They were the only fighter group to never lose a bomber to enemy fighters, and it is undeniable that they saved at least hundreds of American lives. Their service, nonetheless, did not win them any love from committed racists. The same analogy applies for the X-Men.

Besides, there are other reasons as well. The X-Men have a serious PR problem; they claim to be peaceful educators, but they wear high-impact kevlar in public and act as a paramilitary group in many ways. They've let a gazillion ex-terrorists on their team, for fuck's sake, they had Magneto, Mutant Terrorist #1, teaching at their school at one point. That kind of association presents an obvious problem.

Most importantly, though the X-Men need to be hated because of what they represent. What do the X-Men represent? Change. Evolution. Even if this hasn't always been reflected in the books, this is what the X-Men franchise is about. And what is the natural human response to change? To be uncomfortable with it, to oppose it, to resist it, to hate it. That's why it is so important for the X-Men mythos that they are hated by the general public, even if it hasn't always been handled well in the books.
Why are super heros hated?
They aren't all hated. The Fantastic Four and The Avengers are beloved by the general public. The X-Men are hated for reasons already covered, and Spider-Man is hated because 1) he never got to make a good first impression 2) a constant stream of libel from the Daily Bugle literally from Day 1.
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Re: How does Latveria stay independent?

Post by CaptainChewbacca »

SAMAS wrote:#3: Unlike other dictators, Doom takes care of his people, and looks out for their best intrests. As a result, he is generally loved by the populace. Dooms rule may be strict, but he is mostly fair. Hell, he once found himself in a future Earth, and actually became President of the United States and restored democracy to the nation, all for the sake of improving the lot of the people of Latveria. So starting a coup is a very difficult proposition.
Woah, woah, WOAH! When did DD become President of the US? How'd he get around the constitutionality, not to mention the FF? I don't remember Doom ever actually conquering the US, let alone the world.
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Post by Stofsk »

Did you read what SAMAS wrote? DOOM! didn't conquer the US, he was elected POTUS. This happened in the future, where presumably the constitutional roadblock was removed (possibly to allow Schwazenegger a term or two in office?).

To be specific, this took place in the 2099 storyline. And DOOM! was quite a good POTUS IIRC, but was ousted by a time travelling Captain America. I really don't know the fucking story behind that.
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Post by Imperial Overlord »

Stofsk wrote:Did you read what SAMAS wrote? DOOM! didn't conquer the US, he was elected POTUS. This happened in the future, where presumably the constitutional roadblock was removed (possibly to allow Schwazenegger a term or two in office?).

To be specific, this took place in the 2099 storyline. And DOOM! was quite a good POTUS IIRC, but was ousted by a time travelling Captain America. I really don't know the fucking story behind that.
Actually, I believe he did conquer it and then restored democracy.
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Post by Stofsk »

Are you sure? Thinking back, I seem to recall him bragging he actually bought America. But I only stuck with Spidey 2099 because that was the only title that didn't suck (having PADD as your writer goes a LONG way to making a title kick all sorts of arse).
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Post by Imperial Overlord »

I read the comic where his military seizes control of Washington DC with the help of Wakanda mercenaries. The bomb the corporate controlled new Congressional Building (evil black monolith) and the corporate puppet POTUS shoots himself as Doom's boys storm the White House.
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Post by Stofsk »

Truly, none can stand against DOOM! :shock:
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Post by Imperial Overlord »

Future Castle Doom is a flying uber tech fortress with an uber cloaking device. Surprise attack with Dooms army plus a fleet of badass Wakandians and its all she wrote.
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Re: How does Latveria stay independent?

Post by SAMAS »

CaptainChewbacca wrote:
SAMAS wrote:#3: Unlike other dictators, Doom takes care of his people, and looks out for their best intrests. As a result, he is generally loved by the populace. Dooms rule may be strict, but he is mostly fair. Hell, he once found himself in a future Earth, and actually became President of the United States and restored democracy to the nation, all for the sake of improving the lot of the people of Latveria. So starting a coup is a very difficult proposition.
Woah, woah, WOAH! When did DD become President of the US? How'd he get around the constitutionality, not to mention the FF? I don't remember Doom ever actually conquering the US, let alone the world.
I know specifically of one incedent where he used the Purple Man to do it to 616 Earth, and he did conquer Heroes Reborn Earth for a while, starting with nothing but the ruins of the HR-world's Baxter Building, renamed it Planet Doom. While Reed Richards was stuck in Doom's armor, they ran a simulation of what would happen if/when Doom invaded, and it wasn't pretty.
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Post by mr friendly guy »

I started a thread some time back on whether Marvel George W Bush could facilitate regime change in Latveria. The answer seemed to be no even though his civilians have crappola tech, Doom himself and his military is a harder nut to crack.
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Post by Glimmervoid »

MKSheppard wrote:Stupid thought, but WHERE IS Latvia? If it's in the balkans, it was either allied with the Axis (and got curbstomped by the Red Army in 1945), or was conquered by Hitler. Which makes the monarchy of Latvia a very odd thing indeed to exist; because postwar the Soviets just created people's republics in the balkans ruled by Tito, et al
I found this.

http://members.aol.com/doomscribe/latveria.htm#Intro
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Post by MKSheppard »

Then this makes no sense at all; his country's a prime location to be ass stomped by either the Nazis in 1940 or the Soviets in 1945 as they break
through the "Little Axis" Memberstates.

Second on the "this makes no sense" list of Marvelverse is the incredible
disparity in technology, we know that superpowered teams, SHIELD, F4,
Latveria, etc whatever have really advanced technology, but we never
see this technology in common life, or propagated all over the world; it's
like there's an unwritten law of "no tech advancement" in the Marvelverse.
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Post by Vendetta »

Superheroes, and especially Supervillains, tend to be jealous with their toys.

Plus, obviously, Marvel is a franchise, and so needs to be fairly static so they can keep shilling you the same books month on month.
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Post by Tsyroc »

MKSheppard wrote: Second on the "this makes no sense" list of Marvelverse is the incredible
disparity in technology, we know that superpowered teams, SHIELD, F4,
Latveria, etc whatever have really advanced technology, but we never
see this technology in common life, or propagated all over the world; it's
like there's an unwritten law of "no tech advancement" in the Marvelverse.
And that is some of the basis for the villainous group "The Four" :wink: in the Wildstorm book Planetary. Essentially someone asked the same question as you did and decided to make a group very much like the FF except power hungry and evil. They have all kinds of goodies but tend to keep the stuff for themselves. :D
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Post by LadyTevar »

Stofsk wrote:Did you read what SAMAS wrote? DOOM! didn't conquer the US, he was elected POTUS. This happened in the future, where presumably the constitutional roadblock was removed (possibly to allow Schwazenegger a term or two in office?).

To be specific, this took place in the 2099 storyline. And DOOM! was quite a good POTUS IIRC, but was ousted by a time travelling Captain America. I really don't know the fucking story behind that.
Capt. America was a clone in 2099. He was also brainwashed into following exactly what the corporate leaders who didn't want democracy said.

And they hit Latvatia with some kinda bioweapon that left buildings intact, buy turned all organic matter into a goo that could be re-processed into food for invading troops.
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