Zone of the Enders

Dark Hellion · Post by **Dark Hellion** » 2003-07-21 08:22pm

Anubis and Naked Jehuty from ZOE2 at the height of there power (both are assumed full power, even though in game anubis must be trashed for jehuty to be at full power) vs. the following opponents.

1.tiger tank
2.M1 abrams tank
3. Ogre (low mark
4. AT-AT
5. Ogre (high mark)
6. Bolo (high mark)
Now space
1.Runabout
2. Tie fighet
3. Galaxy class
4. Sovereign class
5. Carrack cruiser
6. ISD

Have fun. I will post some stats later, I got to run for a couple hours, so while I am away, any other ZOE fans can fill you in.

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2003-07-21 09:23pm

(I don't know ZOE2, it's not out here, so Ill be basing everything on Jehuty-1 and Testament)

Land:

1. Orbital Frame wins.
2. Orbital Frame wins.

Tanks do not stand a chance. 155mm shells put mild dents in even a mid power frame like Orcrist or Vjaya.

4. Orbital Frame wins.

Too manoeuverable for an AT-AT. No way the great lumbering beast could get it's puny fire arc around to a speeding frame.

Space.

1. Orbital Frame wins.

Too manoeuverable again, and too fast. Would get in close and useenergy blades to shred hulls.

2. Potential for danger. TIE victory if hits are scored..

Star Wars weapons are exceedingly powerful. More so than Jehuty-1 and Testament ever show ,or ever have to withstand (although Testament comes in for some severe punishment). though Idolo and Jehuty-2 become sick.

3&4. Frame loses if it takes a Torpedo. An ICBM grade nuke wiped out both Iblis and Testament, two very strong frames (though they managed to project a shield powerful enough to protect folks on the ground). Wins if it gets close, as it could get inside targetting and start hacking bits off.

5&6. Frame loses if it's hit. Ever. Only way to defeat one of these would be to get in very close, be incredibly lucky, and cut a way in to damage it from the inside.

Dark Hellion · Post by **Dark Hellion** » 2003-07-21 11:34pm

N-jehuty is fully capable of taking a nuke. In fact, it survived the vaporazation of Phobos, one of Mars' moons. Assuming that it took the full brunt and that phobos is mostly hard granite, thats 69000 gigatons. Now, it only took about 2/3 of this so the a good medium figure is that Anubis and Jehuty can survive 40,000 gigatons.
This puts there weapons at a ridiculous level. The average shot is in excess of 200 gigatons, and a Burst Shot is fully capable of dealing 10,000 gigatons of damage.
The acceleration of Jehuty puts it in the neighborhood of <60,000 gees. This is seen when Jehuty travels from Deimos to Mars in approxamately 30 seconds.
The zero shift system allows Jehuty and Anubis to teleport (actually a space fold system of some sort) about 1 kilometer, with a recharge time of around .5 seconds.
Jehuty and Anubis also can generate an energy shield capable of withstanding 1000's of gigatons of energy.
In my opinon, the frames are capable of taking down all land forces and match up rather evenly to the carrack. The ISD is supperior to the suits. Its shields simply too tough and its guns simply too numerous and powerful for the frames to handle.

Lord of the Farce · Post by **Lord of the Farce** » 2003-07-22 02:06am

Dark Hellion wrote:N-jehuty is fully capable of taking a nuke. In fact, it survived the vaporazation of Phobos, one of Mars' moons. Assuming that it took the full brunt and that phobos is mostly hard granite, thats 69000 gigatons. Now, it only took about 2/3 of this so the a good medium figure is that Anubis and Jehuty can survive 40,000 gigatons.
This puts there weapons at a ridiculous level. The average shot is in excess of 200 gigatons, and a Burst Shot is fully capable of dealing 10,000 gigatons of damage.

Please provide backing evidence.

The acceleration of Jehuty puts it in the neighborhood of <60,000 gees. This is seen when Jehuty travels from Deimos to Mars in approxamately 30 seconds.

As above.

Jehuty and Anubis also can generate an energy shield capable of withstanding 1000's of gigatons of energy.

As above.

In my opinon, the frames are capable of taking down all land forces and match up rather evenly to the carrack. The ISD is supperior to the suits. Its shields simply too tough and its guns simply too numerous and powerful for the frames to handle.

Zone of the Enders sounds like blatant mecha-wank.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-07-22 02:09am

FPS Flying mech game where you toss around city destroying weapons that do very little damage to the bosses....

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-07-22 02:13am

OK, should we move this to FANTASY or to Games and Gaming.

IT's an FPS for crying the smeg outloud, the only reasonable comparison would be against Crazy Ivan or Battlezone or HALO.

Because everything in an FPS takes an insane amount of Overkill.

SAMAS · Post by **SAMAS** » 2003-07-22 05:32am

Lord of the Farce wrote:
Dark Hellion wrote:N-jehuty is fully capable of taking a nuke. In fact, it survived the vaporazation of Phobos, one of Mars' moons. Assuming that it took the full brunt and that phobos is mostly hard granite, thats 69000 gigatons. Now, it only took about 2/3 of this so the a good medium figure is that Anubis and Jehuty can survive 40,000 gigatons.
This puts there weapons at a ridiculous level. The average shot is in excess of 200 gigatons, and a Burst Shot is fully capable of dealing 10,000 gigatons of damage.
Please provide backing evidence.

Ending Cinematic, so good luck trying to get a sample of it.

But in it, Dingo is trying to stop the destruction of either Aumaan(Which will take out the entire solar system), or Jehuty, which ADA has just started the self-destruct sequence of. Dingo takes the core of Anubis and detonates that, causing a blast, possibly of compressed space, that vaporizes Phobos completely. Jehuty and Vic Viper, both heavily damaged(it should be noted that they were already damaged prior to the blast), are the only things shown in anything remotely considered one piece.

Later, after the rest of the ending, we see Jehuty quietly repairing itself to perfect form.

The acceleration of Jehuty puts it in the neighborhood of <60,000 gees. This is seen when Jehuty travels from Deimos to Mars in approxamately 30 seconds.
As above.

This could be gained through two possible scenes, but I'm not sure if either of them are very good.

The first is when Jehuty flies from a BAHRAM Battleship to escape a very pissed off Nephitis. But I think there's a break between that scene and the next, starting a battle between Jehuty and Vic Viper, so I don't know if it's that continuous.

The second is the battle between Jehuty and Anubis, going between Mars and Phobos. But they were being carried in that one.

Jehuty and Anubis also can generate an energy shield capable of withstanding 1000's of gigatons of energy.
As above.

This, I believe, is from a direct quote from the first Zone of the Enders, where ADA is describing what would happen if Jehuty's reactor were to overload.

In my opinon, the frames are capable of taking down all land forces and match up rather evenly to the carrack. The ISD is supperior to the suits. Its shields simply too tough and its guns simply too numerous and powerful for the frames to handle.
Zone of the Enders sounds like blatant mecha-wank.

[/quote]

By that token, so would Star Wars.

The Yosemite Bear wrote:FPS Flying mech game where you toss around city destroying weapons that do very little damage to the bosses....

I wouldn't call it an FPS. Especially since the game is in Third Person.

1.tiger tank
2.M1 abrams tank
3. Ogre (low mark
4. AT-AT

Stomp stomp stomp stomp stomp. All of these lack the speed or firepower, with the exception of the AT-AT(possibly), and even that's still way too slow.

5. Ogre (high mark)
6. Bolo (high mark)

Not sure about the power, but the Ogre still has to worry about speed.

The Bolo, on the other hand, has the speed, and prossibly the firepower to pull off a win.

Now space
1.Runabout
2. Tie fighet

Both crushed.

3. Galaxy class
4. Sovereign class

Probably Jehuty.

5. Carrack cruiser
6. ISD

Similar to the Vascillia Battleships level. They possibly have the firepower to hurt Jehuty and Anubis, but the problem is hitting something that can be clear on the other side of you before your guns can be brought to bear on it.

Lord of the Farce · Post by **Lord of the Farce** » 2003-07-22 06:04am

SAMAS wrote:
Lord of the Farce wrote:Zone of the Enders sounds like blatant mecha-wank.
By that token, so would Star Wars.

Yeah, which is exactly why people match up ISD against M1 Abrams tanks. And where's the dedicated ships which employs larger scale version of everything on the mecha?

Dark Hellion · Post by **Dark Hellion** » 2003-07-22 01:04pm

The mecha is a prototype, its supposed to be very godlike, the Anubis and the Jehuty are two sides of the same coin, with identical abilities, only dependent upon pilot skill. Theres some moral play going on as well.
The mechawank thing, come on now, so now mecha from a purely fictional universe cannot be powerful. By that token, FTL should be impossible because it doesn't work in real life.
As for their uberness, their are 2 prototype frames, the rest of the frames are quite capable of being owned by a battleship. Battleships also do carry upscaled versions of jehuties weapons, its simply that jehuty is too fast to be targeted.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-07-22 01:13pm

Oooh, ooh, it can hurt SW ships, it must be technowank!

Get out the Kleenex boys!

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-07-22 01:26pm

I haven't played the game, I have only watched "Mark" playing the game while I repaired his computer. Basically, your playing a whiny kid, who runs around in some technically impossible (Self repairing, carries more firepower and missiles then could possibly fit inside the frame (Must be part Tardis too), collecting armour ups, weapon ups, etc, and blowing away minions and bosses, and trying to save people while you destroy the whole city around you.... (oh, the bosses+City destroying mecha instantly respawn everytime you re-enter a city sector, and most of the buildings respawn too....)

When your telling me that something has that capabilities, it's a construction of Magic, It's something Master Chief can go HTH with, or It needs to be fighting either the tank from Battlezone (**** you I can and will shoot you down it's only a matter of leading you properly)

This is not a logical or fair comparison.

Then again I play Square RPG's let's toss around solar system destroying attacks....

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-07-22 01:49pm

The Metatron powered device inside the craft allows TARDIS abilities which explains the power and weapons storage that would otherwise not fit in the frame. Now, unless Dr. Who is now cast off to fantasy as well, this stands.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-07-22 02:26pm

So in other words an Airsuperiority fighter with that could carry more firepower then a battleship...

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-07-22 02:33pm

So in otherwords I am not objecting to Dr. Who or the Culture.

I am objecting to bad/lopsided debate structures.

Let's face it. 1 Zulu with club vs. Sherman Tank is not a fair debate.

Now if Shaka has industrial capacity, and modern tech, I am sure he will find something to arm his soldiers with, that can do more to a Sherman then a knobkerrie.

Basically, like I said, unless your going to be bringing in something reasonable this is a pointless arguement.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-07-22 02:36pm

The thread starter's problem, naturally sending most things in sci-fi against a Tiger tank is stupid.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-07-22 02:56pm

The Yosemite Bear wrote:
Basically, like I said, unless your going to be bringing in something reasonable this is a pointless arguement.

Its just more trolling from Dark Hellion

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-07-22 03:06pm

Off to Fantasy...since this is basically, uber game charaqcter versus.

Dark Hellion · Post by **Dark Hellion** » 2003-07-22 04:45pm

Sorry, I was just using it cause its statistics are well documented.
And just to be fair, a Daishi would lose to the Tiger, as would many of the LEVs from the game.
As for the move, its fine, no problem, i guess it really is more fantasy with science thrown in to make it sound sci-fi. Kinda lke comic books.
As for reasonability, i did put a bolo and ogre in.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-07-22 05:34pm

Vendetta wrote: Tanks do not stand a chance. 155mm shells put mild dents in even a mid power frame like Orcrist or Vjaya.

155mm shells are not good armor penetrators. Thats not what they do. They blow up.

Strange as it may seem, something may be immune to 155mm fire and still get zapped by a modern-day tank cannon.

Dark Hellion wrote:N-jehuty is fully capable of taking a nuke. In fact, it survived the vaporazation of Phobos, one of Mars' moons. Assuming that it took the full brunt and that phobos is mostly hard granite, thats 69000 gigatons. Now, it only took about 2/3 of this so the a good medium figure is that Anubis and Jehuty can survive 40,000 gigatons.
This puts there weapons at a ridiculous level. The average shot is in excess of 200 gigatons, and a Burst Shot is fully capable of dealing 10,000 gigatons of damage.

Just because it survived the vaporization of Phobos doesn't mean it absorbed all of the energy necessary to vape Phobos

Done and done

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2003-07-22 06:13pm

The Yosemite Bear wrote:So in other words an Airsuperiority fighter with that could carry more firepower then a battleship...

Basically yes. All the higher-end frames like Anubis, Jehuty, Isis, or Hathor are packing vector traps, a nifty little dimensional fold type storage device that lets them haul around a ridiculous amount of weapons and ammy. You get a better picture of this in teh second Zone of the Enders game where you can actually see the characteristic vector trap distortion when Jehuty pulls out the vector cannon or phalanx.

Also a lot of the uber frames like Anubis and Hathor can use their vector traps to effectively teleport (and we've seen anubis use it to 'catch' incoming attacks and spit it back out at his opponent)

SAMAS · Post by **SAMAS** » 2003-07-22 09:34pm

Lord of the Farce wrote:
SAMAS wrote:
Lord of the Farce wrote:Zone of the Enders sounds like blatant mecha-wank.
By that token, so would Star Wars.
Yeah, which is exactly why people match up ISD against M1 Abrams tanks. And where's the dedicated ships which employs larger scale version of everything on the mecha?

Stage 11.

SAMAS · Post by **SAMAS** » 2003-07-22 09:45pm

The Yosemite Bear wrote:I haven't played the game, I have only watched "Mark" playing the game while I repaired his computer. Basically, your playing a whiny kid, who runs around in some technically impossible (Self repairing, carries more firepower and missiles then could possibly fit inside the frame (Must be part Tardis too), collecting armour ups, weapon ups, etc, and blowing away minions and bosses, and trying to save people while you destroy the whole city around you.... (oh, the bosses+City destroying mecha instantly respawn everytime you re-enter a city sector, and most of the buildings respawn too....)

That's the first game.

In the second, The whiny kid(Leo) has grown up a bit, and now pilots a mecha that transforms into the ship from Gradius.

Jehuty is now piloted by Dingo Egret, an older, and a lot more sarcastic guy who ends up hard-wired to Jehuty when an old friend of his puts six 9mm rounds into his body(ZoE 2 has an M rating, and this one scene is probably at least 80% of the reason why).

The game is a little more linear, as you don't have to wander around the colony anymore. And you only have one "Save the Town" mission, in which you're caught in the middle of a battle between BAHRAM and Earth forces. You also get missions such as destroying a train in 5 minutes, fighting 5 massive battleships, and participate in a huge 200-on-42 mechanized melee(Guess which side you're on).

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2003-07-22 11:47pm

That's a lot more than just 200 on 42..

Datana · Post by **Datana** » 2003-07-23 05:33am

Well, a hard number for anyone interested -- at the end of the original Zone of the Enders, ADA says that if Jehuty's main generator is overloaded, a 22.3 gigaton blast would result, equal to "fifteen positron bombs." This should give an upper limit for ZOE energy generation and attack capabilities. For comparison with a known standard, the commonly accepted firepower figure for a (medium?) turbolaser cannon is 1.9 gigatons per pulse.