Yoda vs The Hulk

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Post by Darth_Shinji » 2003-06-25 10:18am

Steven Snyder wrote:

Being able to control one's temper on a single occasion is not enough. I find it very odd that you bring up an example of Banner and not the Hulk, Banner's mind is submerged when the Hulk is dominate.
Its not controling your anger on a single occasion, its controlling your anger during extreme duress.... Something a jedi has fallen to do nurmios times. He contolled his anger for most of his adult life even when it could still transform him to a limited degree. Heck, the Hulk isn't just banner's "I'm angry" persona....It's a seperate personaility. It stayed the Hulk twice when not angry, it stayed the hulk whem uncoisnce (and it shows the hulk submerging banner's personalility in that scene). And Banner showed sigms of transforming when having no angewr towards anybody in specific. Anger looks more like the only times the Hulk can defeat Banner. And whats this about "your talking about banner? You forgot the whole Banner took over the Hulk to fight his father thing?
You still have yet to show how the Hulk's or even Banner's will is stronger than the average human.
I don't actually have too, despite the fact that I did show he was strong will. He needs a weak-mind, not a normal one for Jedi force powers to work.
Red Herring The self-control of a padawan Jedi who is already admitted to having anger problems is completely irrelevant to this argument.
Nope, not at all a red-herring, you are stating anger problems is a sure sign that his will is weak enought to allow jedi mind-powers when his rages do not even come close to the rages made by a specal destined Jedi! Jedi have emotional problems and/or generaly need to learn to control thier emotions as a rule.
It seems you have no defense against my argument that neither the Hulk nor Banner have enough self-control to resist the manipulations of Yoda.

Concession Accepted.
Now your just talking to yourself wanting to claim victory becuase you don't believe a word I am saying. Thats fine, the only person here who belives you've proved anything is yourself. By Obi-wans direct cannon quote and dictonary.com's defination of strong-mind Hulk/Banner is not going to be affected by Jedi mind powers.
Yes you do. Jedi powers not only work on the weak minded, but on Gungan tribal rulers, drug dealers, and so on.
Bullshit, You're claiming that these people are strong-willed becuase of thier TITLES? By Obi-wans quote on the matter they must have weak-minds and thier titles mean shit as far as proving anything about thier personal characterists.
You made the claim that the Hulk (a childish brute) would be immune to the mental manipulations of an ancient Jedi Master. The burden of proof is on you.
All I had to have done was prove that he didn't have a weak mind, which I did. Now you're just calaiming I didn't without giving a good reason why. And the phaise "mental manipulations of an ancient Jedi Master" would sound so much cooler if the generaly population of this planet wasn't immune to the "mental manipulations of an ancient Jedi Master".



Really??? You just specified magic...
Marvel universe magic.....
And yes, MU magic has many sources of energy, life energy being one of them.
By your own words the force and "MU Magic" operate on different principals and are not the same thing.
Hmm? I did how? They both are life energy right? Thou to be fair marvel magic energy comes from a shit-load of different sources.... So when a person can seanse marvel magic.... there's not many forms of magic you couldn't pick up in sceince fiction.
Concession Accepted.
Keep chanting that to yourselve....I['m sure someone here might belive you one of these days.....or maybe not.
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Post by Graeme Dice » 2003-06-25 10:56am

Ghost Rider wrote:So are you going to actually come to a refute of how at the supreme upper level limit he's going to avoid Yoda from grabbing his heart and crushing it...given how far a Jedi's Telepathic and Telekinetic control is at this point of the whole gambit?
He doesn't need to avoid having Yoda attack him with the force. Yoda won't do that because such a thing would invite the dark side.
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Post by Steven Snyder » 2003-06-25 12:21pm

Darth_Shinji wrote: *garbage*
Dear Village Idiot;

The fact that you can't spell doesn't bother me, you might not have english as your first language, or you may be a child. That you can't even use the simple quoting system to make your remarks readable is beyond me.

Fix your response's formatting, and I will bother to read it.

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Post by Darth_Shinji » 2003-06-25 12:38pm

Steven Snyder wrote:
Darth_Shinji wrote: *garbage*
Dear Village Idiot;
Dear true deserver of that title.There are people on this baord a hundred times more idiotic than I could possible hope to achieve in my short lifetime. So take your potshots.
The fact that you can't spell doesn't bother me, you might not have english as your first language, or you may be a child. That you can't even use the simple quoting system to make your remarks readable is beyond me.
If it doesn't bother you..... why are you making such a big deal out of it? And considering my latest one is legible except for that really messed up one you replied to last time this is a mere smoke screen.
Fix your response's formatting, and I will bother to read it.
This one isn't hardly as bad as that last piece of shit one you responded too (Which is becuase of my computer acting up at home) so why the problem now?

Answer: Avoidance?
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Post by Steven Snyder » 2003-06-25 03:41pm

Darth_Shinji wrote: *garbage*
How much time did you waste on that, when you could have been reformatting your response?

I have standards, and you are not meeting them.

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Post by Jonathanos » 2003-06-25 04:42pm

I haven't read many of the Hulk comics, but do a Thunderclap's effects project forward, or do they just wipe out anything in a sphere of a given radius? If it only projects forward, then all Yoda has to do is get behind him and keep him from turning around (not too hard, even for an infinitely strong being like The Hulk, of you can deprive him of anything to act against by holding him in the air) in order to beat him. If not, then Yoda's probably screwed.
Amazing Spider-Man #383(I believe)-- Spider-Man leaps onto the Hulk's back and Hulk claps his hands. Spider-Man drops like a stone.

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Post by Drooling Iguana » 2003-06-25 06:09pm

Jonathanos wrote:
I haven't read many of the Hulk comics, but do a Thunderclap's effects project forward, or do they just wipe out anything in a sphere of a given radius? If it only projects forward, then all Yoda has to do is get behind him and keep him from turning around (not too hard, even for an infinitely strong being like The Hulk, of you can deprive him of anything to act against by holding him in the air) in order to beat him. If not, then Yoda's probably screwed.
Amazing Spider-Man #383(I believe)-- Spider-Man leaps onto the Hulk's back and Hulk claps his hands. Spider-Man drops like a stone.
So we know it works backwards at extremely close ranges. Any info one what its maximum effective range would be?
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Post by Darth_Shinji » 2003-06-25 09:24pm

Steven Snyder wrote:
Darth_Shinji wrote: *garbage*
How much time did you waste on that, when you could have been reformatting your response?

I have standards, and you are not meeting them.
You know if you honestly asked instead of mearly insulted me to hide the fact that you replied to worse when you honestly had a point and it hadn't sunk to the bottom of the ocean yet. Now I'm going to call a real "concession accepted" on your debate avioding ass and not respond to anything to you answered my rebutals.

And if you honestly had problems I would of made a descent attempt to meet your requests.... But I have standrads of good manners and intellegence and you are not meeting them.

Thanks for the debate and the laughs.
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Post by Jonathanos » 2003-06-25 11:15pm

Drooling Iguana wrote:
Jonathanos wrote:
I haven't read many of the Hulk comics, but do a Thunderclap's effects project forward, or do they just wipe out anything in a sphere of a given radius? If it only projects forward, then all Yoda has to do is get behind him and keep him from turning around (not too hard, even for an infinitely strong being like The Hulk, of you can deprive him of anything to act against by holding him in the air) in order to beat him. If not, then Yoda's probably screwed.
Amazing Spider-Man #383(I believe)-- Spider-Man leaps onto the Hulk's back and Hulk claps his hands. Spider-Man drops like a stone.
So we know it works backwards at extremely close ranges. Any info one what its maximum effective range would be?
It's sound as well as concussive force. It's range depends on how hard he slams his hands together.

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Post by ShinjiGohan » 2003-06-26 03:04am

First the topic never explicitely say that it was movie Hulk.

2. All examples of Force TK have required the user to use his hands to go through the movements. Even in the ESB movie, Vader stops swinging his sword and uses TK, and uses his hand to follow the motions.

3. Hard for Yoda to react when the Hulk (who has leaped at speeds greater than mach 35 to catch objects (missles and the like going at that speed when the Hulk leaped faster than that), and applies a punch that could destroy an asteriod 2X the size of earth.

Heck one Thunder clap and Yoda's dead (another reason having those big ears is a bad thing).

4. Hulk survived Supermans ehat vision, the same that was said to be hotter than the sun. I doubt a lightsaber is doing anything to him. Especially in the time frame that this fight will be over.

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Post by Dillon » 2003-06-26 03:19am

ShinjiGohan wrote:First the topic never explicitely say that it was movie Hulk.

2. All examples of Force TK have required the user to use his hands to go through the movements. Even in the ESB movie, Vader stops swinging his sword and uses TK, and uses his hand to follow the motions.
TESB, Vader force chokes Admiral Ozzel without moving his hand.
ShinjiGohan wrote:3. Hard for Yoda to react when the Hulk (who has leaped at speeds greater than mach 35 to catch objects (missles and the like going at that speed when the Hulk leaped faster than that), and applies a punch that could destroy an asteriod 2X the size of earth.
Bull shit, we've never seen him go mach 35, try doing some calculations rather than pulling numbers out of your ass.
ShinjiGohan wrote:Heck one Thunder clap and Yoda's dead (another reason having those big ears is a bad thing).
You're assuming he'll have time to do that before Yoda has control of his mind.
ShinjiGohan wrote:4. Hulk survived Supermans ehat vision, the same that was said to be hotter than the sun. I doubt a lightsaber is doing anything to him. Especially in the time frame that this fight will be over.
When his heat vision is said to be hotter than the sun, it's obviously exaggerated. If his heat vision was hotter than the sun, than it should kill any innocent bystanders who happen to be nearby.
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Post by Steven Snyder » 2003-06-26 08:45am

Darth_Shinji wrote: *garbage*
Tell me, how long did it take you to finally decide to just rehash what I just said to you and then post it as your response?

I am willing to overlook your horrible spelling that reminds me of a 'slow' 3rd grader.

I was even willing to let slip your inability to properly use the quote feature, once.

But now I realize that you have indeed earned the title "Village Idiot". You weren't being picked on, or otherwise mistreated, you were properly labeled.

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Post by Omega-13 » 2003-06-26 08:51am

If Jedi can take over minds so well, why did Obi wan or Anakin try and calm the minds of the beasts in ATOC?
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Post by Darth_Shinji » 2003-06-26 09:21am

How fast do Hellfire missles go? I'm looking but not able to find anything so far.


And observer_20000 he does vary the intensity of his blasts on call, but that means we need a specific qoute on Supes heat vision being that strong at the time. But Hulk has teken nukes and other etremly powerful stuff, plus he can phyisicaly manipulate energy....so.

Movie hulk is iffy too. But he can regenerate from it.
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Post by Jonathanos » 2003-06-26 10:41am

observer_20000 wrote:TESB, Vader force chokes Admiral Ozzel without moving his hand.
Useless tactic against the Hulk. See Future Imperfect.
observer_20000 wrote:Bull shit, we've never seen him go mach 35, try doing some calculations rather than pulling numbers out of your ass.
We've seen him clocked at hundreds of miles per hour in leaps. He has overtaken missles and jets. Mach 35, I don't recall off-hand, but Yoda will have a hard time reacting if the Hulk gets the jump (literally) on him.
observer_20000 wrote:You're assuming he'll have time to do that before Yoda has control of his mind.
You're assuming Yoda can take over the Hulk's mind. He has several examples of resisting mental domination--one from a cosmic being.
observer_20000 wrote:When his heat vision is said to be hotter than the sun, it's obviously exaggerated. If his heat vision was hotter than the sun, than it should kill any innocent bystanders who happen to be nearby.
Don't know for sure about Superman's heat vision level but if you're going to apply that logic, then practically everything in comics and sci-fi gets thrown out. After all, if Banner had truly taken that much radiation, he wouldn't become the Hulk--he'd just die. The Flash would set the atmosphere on fire when he began his light-speed plus movements. Almost every major feat of lifting strength can no longer be used because the object should crumble under its weight. And so on and on.

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Post by Omega-13 » 2003-06-26 12:38pm

Ok just watched ATOC again, the scene where Yoda fights Dooku.

Dooku rips the cylinder off the wall and retreats into the ship, Yoda slips the ligthsabre away immediately and almost shits his pants trying to keep that beam level and not dropping. He is concentrating so much, his eyes are closed and has to peak with 1 eye just to verify.

This is a beam that had very very slow acceleration, and low momentum,

It would be magnitudes harder to stop the hulk, and once he is stopped and is thrashing about, what is Yoda going to do? he couldn't even move when he was trying to stop the beam....
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Post by Dillon » 2003-06-26 01:57pm

Omega-13 wrote:If Jedi can take over minds so well, why did Obi wan or Anakin try and calm the minds of the beasts in ATOC?
Try watching the movie, it was stated several times that the Jedi were a lot weaker in AOTC and getting weaker.
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Post by Dillon » 2003-06-26 02:02pm

Jonathanos wrote:
observer_20000 wrote:TESB, Vader force chokes Admiral Ozzel without moving his hand.
Useless tactic against the Hulk. See Future Imperfect.
observer_20000 wrote:Bull shit, we've never seen him go mach 35, try doing some calculations rather than pulling numbers out of your ass.
We've seen him clocked at hundreds of miles per hour in leaps. He has overtaken missles and jets. Mach 35, I don't recall off-hand, but Yoda will have a hard time reacting if the Hulk gets the jump (literally) on him.
observer_20000 wrote:You're assuming he'll have time to do that before Yoda has control of his mind.
You're assuming Yoda can take over the Hulk's mind. He has several examples of resisting mental domination--one from a cosmic being.
observer_20000 wrote:When his heat vision is said to be hotter than the sun, it's obviously exaggerated. If his heat vision was hotter than the sun, than it should kill any innocent bystanders who happen to be nearby.
Don't know for sure about Superman's heat vision level but if you're going to apply that logic, then practically everything in comics and sci-fi gets thrown out. After all, if Banner had truly taken that much radiation, he wouldn't become the Hulk--he'd just die. The Flash would set the atmosphere on fire when he began his light-speed plus movements. Almost every major feat of lifting strength can no longer be used because the object should crumble under its weight. And so on and on.
I don't have Future Imperfect, whatever that is, so please tell what this evidence is you have that shows the Hulk resisting multi ton compressive forces on his neck.

Yoda is precognotive.

Please provide an example of the Hulk resisting telepathy.

And about Super Man's heat vision. The difference is the other examples aren't just dialouge, you actually see them happening. Super Man's heat vision is only described as hot as the sun, but you never see anything that actually indicates this.
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Post by Graeme Dice » 2003-06-26 02:14pm

[quote="observer_20000]I don't have Future Imperfect, whatever that is, so please tell what this evidence is you have that shows the Hulk resisting multi ton compressive forces on his neck.
[/quote]

The hulk has lifted mountains that weighed several billion tons, do you really expect that the muscles in his neck aren't just as strong? Youda has only been seen to exert about 15 tons of force.

Further, you are completely ignoring the fact that Yoda would never use the force to strangle someone like Vader did. Doing so would lead him very quickly to the darkside.
Yoda is precognotive.
Which doesn't help you at all if you can't react quickly enough, or if you can't do anything about it anyways. I'm thinking that you haven't watched AOTC very much.
Please provide an example of the Hulk resisting telepathy.
Several examples have already been provided in this very thread.
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Post by Jonathanos » 2003-06-26 02:25pm

observer_20000 wrote:I don't have Future Imperfect, whatever that is, so please tell what this evidence is you have that shows the Hulk resisting multi ton compressive forces on his neck.

Yoda is precognotive.

Please provide an example of the Hulk resisting telepathy.
Page 5, my first post.

All that and more.

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Post by Jonathanos » 2003-06-26 02:35pm

observer_20000 wrote:And about Super Man's heat vision. The difference is the other examples aren't just dialouge, you actually see them happening. Super Man's heat vision is only described as hot as the sun, but you never see anything that actually indicates this.
If it's described as being as hot as the sun, you need to provide evidence that it isn't.

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Post by Dillon » 2003-06-26 02:48pm

Jonathanos wrote:
observer_20000 wrote:And about Super Man's heat vision. The difference is the other examples aren't just dialouge, you actually see them happening. Super Man's heat vision is only described as hot as the sun, but you never see anything that actually indicates this.
If it's described as being as hot as the sun, you need to provide evidence that it isn't.
Fine, the force is described as being capable of destroying planets, that gives Yoda an easy win over the Hulk
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Post by Darth_Shinji » 2003-06-26 02:55pm

observer_20000 wrote:
Omega-13 wrote:If Jedi can take over minds so well, why did Obi wan or Anakin try and calm the minds of the beasts in ATOC?
Try watching the movie, it was stated several times that the Jedi were a lot weaker in AOTC and getting weaker.
Those phaires are often suspected in debates on how much that meant. Was it slighl at the time and they were just trying to get it out of the way when later when it would of been noticable? And no one else was concern about it or commenting on how less powerful they were. And Yoda is the most powerful Jedi there is during the movies..... One can wonder if his powers were reduced alot even if the others were.
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Post by Darth_Shinji » 2003-06-26 02:59pm

observer_20000 wrote:
Jonathanos wrote:
observer_20000 wrote:And about Super Man's heat vision. The difference is the other examples aren't just dialouge, you actually see them happening. Super Man's heat vision is only described as hot as the sun, but you never see anything that actually indicates this.
If it's described as being as hot as the sun, you need to provide evidence that it isn't.
Fine, the force is described as being capable of destroying planets, that gives Yoda an easy win over the Hulk
Nope, just that the power to destroy a planet was insifignate to the power od the force, a vague suggestion... Did he mean the overall power? If he did how much can pull at one time? If it takes concentrion to move a x-wing I doubt one Jedi can pull a planet destroyer out of thier ass.

Not to mention that would only make Yoda on comic Hulks league..... :P
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Post by Dillon » 2003-06-26 03:03pm

Darth_Shinji wrote:
observer_20000 wrote:
Jonathanos wrote: If it's described as being as hot as the sun, you need to provide evidence that it isn't.
Fine, the force is described as being capable of destroying planets, that gives Yoda an easy win over the Hulk
Nope, just that the power to destroy a planet was insifignate to the power od the force, a vague suggestion... Did he mean the overall power? If he did how much can pull at one time? If it takes concentrion to move a x-wing I doubt one Jedi can pull a planet destroyer out of thier ass.

Not to mention that would only make Yoda on comic Hulks league..... :P
Ok, and we've seen things that contradict Super Man's heat vision as being as hot as the sun, but Jonathanos is obviously unwilling to debate in a reasonable manner.
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