Thoughts on Order of the Phoenix *Spoilers*

[generator_g1]

Ok, I haven't read any of the books at all, no time really, only seen the two movies, I've heard that a major character gets killed in this latest book. Since this is a spoiler thread and most of what is being talked here is really confusing me since alot happens the the books not yet made into movies, Who died and how? Please forgive my ignorence about the subject if someone did indeed bring it up in the thread. I just want to know who and who he was in the movies if he's already been introduced in the movies. Thanks.

I think it would be better if you do read the books first since the character that dies hasn't appeared yet in the 2 movies. He'll only appear in the 3rd movie which is still in production.

[Exonerate]

I keep thinking about how Neville has changed...

He was once an incompetent baffoon who could only be trusted as a gardener. He even referred to himself as someone who was nearly a squib.

His training in the Defense Against the Dark Arts by Harry has really changed him. His problem seemed to have been confidence, because once he got going in the duels he was a force to be reckoned with. Remember this was a kid who couldn't even master the simplest 1st year spells.

What really suprised me was his ferocity against the Death Eaters at the end of the book.

He squared off against them and did quite well for himself. He didn't panic, freeze, run, or otherwise shrink from his charge. He was kicked in the face, breaking his nose and possibly his jaw and he continued on despite his injuries. He couldn't even pronounce the spells properly, yet he kept trying, and when he finally realized they wouldn't work he used his wand as a spear and jabbed it into the eye of a death eater. Finally, when he was subdued and faced certain death, he told Harry not to give it the prophecy up, quite certain he would be killed if Harry didn't.

Though he may have had a rough start, this kid is starting to look like he is quite the lion.

They stuck him in Gryffindor for a reason.

Harry seems a lot more irritable and violent... Might just be his teenage years, or could be something else. But the part about the Crucatious Curse (Too lazy to look it up) concerns me a bit.

Anybody considered the possibility that Neville is actually the one spoken of in the prophecy?

I have a weird hunch that Cho is being controlled or influenced by Voldemort... Her suddenly friendlyness to Harry seemed a little too... convenient. And Harry cares (or did) for her, meaning Voldemort would have the motivation to go after her.

[BenRG]

Anybody considered the possibility that Neville is actually the one spoken of in the prophecy?

I did actually consider the possibility that either Neville or Harry could fulfill the prophecy. However, Dumbledore did very clearly state that only the one marked by the Dark Lord would fulfill the prophecy. Unless Neville has any scars we don't know about, it is definately Harry.

[Macross]

They stuck him in Gryffindor for a reason.

Yeah, remember what he did at the end of first year!

Harry seems a lot more irritable and violent... Might just be his teenage years, or could be something else. But the part about the Crucatious Curse (Too lazy to look it up) concerns me a bit.

I thinks a bit of both. Remember he saw Voldemort rise and Cedric die and was called an attention seeking liar, or something to that effect. He never had time to come to terms with those events before being shipped back to the Durslys. He was completely cut off from the magical community, knowing that a Dark Lord was after him. Then we he is back with the magical world, they all treat him like a child, and leave him out of the loop.

If this happened to me, i would sure as hell be pissed off to. So Harry's violence didnt really seem to surprise me. Especially at the end when he performed the Curse, remember he performed it on someone who had just killed the closest thing to only "real" family he ever had.

Though I am a bit surprised by Hermiones violent side, that took me off guard. She deliberatly lead Umbitch into the forest to be hurt or even killed by the Centuars.

Anybody considered the possibility that Neville is actually the one spoken of in the prophecy?

Yup, I mentioned it in my last post. Cant wait to see Nevilles reaction to hearing the full prophecy. I think he has a right to know.

I have a weird hunch that Cho is being controlled or influenced by Voldemort... Her suddenly friendlyness to Harry seemed a little too... convenient. And Harry cares (or did) for her, meaning Voldemort would have the motivation to go after her.

Well I dont know about that. I think its just a classic case of Teenage Bitch Syndrome.

[Dahak]

Anybody considered the possibility that Neville is actually the one spoken of in the prophecy?

Well, as the prophecy says, it was Voldemort who choose him...

[Steven Snyder]

Ok, I haven't read any of the books at all, no time really, only seen the two movies, I've heard that a major character gets killed in this latest book. Since this is a spoiler thread and most of what is being talked here is really confusing me since alot happens the the books not yet made into movies, Who died and how? Please forgive my ignorence about the subject if someone did indeed bring it up in the thread. I just want to know who and who he was in the movies if he's already been introduced in the movies. Thanks.

Okay, first things first. The movies are crap! Compared to the book they are feeble mockeries that should never have been made. You simply can't capture the world of Harry Potter and put it on film. The only useful thing they accomplish is to provide a face for the characters and show us what Quidditch looks like.

Take time and read the books, they won't take as long to read as you might think. You will enjoy them much more than the movies and you will also have much more of a clue as to what is going on.

As far as the character that dies, you don't know of him yet. I could tell you who he is, but it wouldn't mean anything to you.

[Dahak]

Ok, I haven't read any of the books at all, no time really, only seen the two movies, I've heard that a major character gets killed in this latest book. Since this is a spoiler thread and most of what is being talked here is really confusing me since alot happens the the books not yet made into movies, Who died and how? Please forgive my ignorence about the subject if someone did indeed bring it up in the thread. I just want to know who and who he was in the movies if he's already been introduced in the movies. Thanks.

Okay, first things first. The movies are crap! Compared to the book they are feeble mockeries that should never have been made. You simply can't capture the world of Harry Potter and put it on film. The only useful thing they accomplish is to provide a face for the characters and show us what Quidditch looks like.

Take time and read the books, they won't take as long to read as you might think. You will enjoy them much more than the movies and you will also have much more of a clue as to what is going on.

As far as the character that dies, you don't know of him yet. I could tell you who he is, but it wouldn't mean anything to you.

I beg to disagree. The movies do a wonderful job of portraying the world of Harry Potter...
They can't put all the mini sub-plots and such in it, but then they don't need it to get the feeling across for the world.

[Steven Snyder]

Anybody considered the possibility that Neville is actually the one spoken of in the prophecy?

Yup, I mentioned it in my last post. Cant wait to see Nevilles reaction to hearing the full prophecy. I think he has a right to know.

The prophecy could have referred to either Harry or Neville. Voldemort had to attempt to kill one of them, thereby marking that one as an equal. He chose Harry, he did not choose Neville.

Because of Voldemort's decision, the prophecy has nothing to do with Neville. The prophecy applies as much to him as it does to Dobby. Neville will not be the one to kill Voldemort, it is simply not his destiny.

I have a weird hunch that Cho is being controlled or influenced by Voldemort... Her suddenly friendlyness to Harry seemed a little too... convenient. And Harry cares (or did) for her, meaning Voldemort would have the motivation to go after her.

Cho wanted to get friendly with Harry so she could lament about her loss of Cedric. She wanted to know about his death, if he said anything, and so on. Cho wasn't really interested in Harry at all, it just took him awhile to figure that out.

At the end of the book it leaves little doubt that Harry has no feelings for Cho anymore and is content to let her fade into the crowd.

[Dahak]

When I first started reading, I sort of thought Tonks might make a nice love interest But she's too old...
Hermione seems to still have her thing going for Krum, and Ron... Maybe Luna?
Ginny seems to get grown up awfully fast At least Mrs. Weasley wouldn't mind Harry

[Crown]

This brings me onto my own thoughts: The series is getting more and more 'shades of grey'. Book 2 revealed that Tom (Voldemort) is as much a victim as anyone else, driven by internal demons. Now we see that a lot of the supposed 'good guys' are anything but. James Potter was a bully. Sirius Black's family are in with the Dark Side and Sirius himself was the author of his own downfall because of his racist attitudes towards Kreature. Dumbledore has shown that he is capable of immence self-deception and that this has blinded him to several real threats facing Harry.

I really like that aspect. Rowling has cleverly latched onto the basic fundamental of life. As a child, the world (from its perspective) is made up of black and white. It's not til later, that shades of grey start creeping into the outlook. I love the fact that Rowling demostrates this without preaching about it, and doesn't make a big song and dance. Plus it helps us adults enjoy the books more!

Dumbledore's mea culpa is interesting on several fronts. It shows that he has been cynically manipulating Harry to create the ideal weapon to use against Voldemort. You can argue that he had no choice, and I certainly agree that he now regrets that decision, but it might be too late for that. Harry has gone a long way down the Dark Path.

Indeed. One wonders if Harry, or rather Dumbledore is bent on thwarting one Dark Wizard, that he might not be noticing that he is creating another to fill his place. While I don't see Harry going down that path easily, the 'might is right' mentality is really starting to blossom in young Harry's chest.

You see a lot of steel in Dumbledore in this book. His comments to Fudge were particularly chilling, telling the Minister that he can spare half an hour for him later on, but he will have to wait his turn. His speed and efficiency against Voldemort in the Department of Mystries finally demonstrates what a master-level wizard is capable of, as well as why his former apprentice is so afraid of him.

Yes, and long overdue in my opinion.

On that subject, does anyone want to see Dumbledore quote Yoda at Voldemort? Deflects a curse with a gesture, shakes his head, sighs sadly and says: "You still have so much to learn, my young apprentice..."

He sort of did

I also shudder to think what the centaurs did to Uxbridge.

No more than that troll deserved.

I do think that a girl may have a critical role to play. If Harry is to be anchoed to the Good Side, he needs something to promote positive emotions (Dumbledore seemed to think that power based on positive feelings is Voldemort's weak-point). Having a girlfriend could be critical for Harry gaining sufficient power, balance and will to defeat Voldemort.

Can you still say that, after witnessing how inscensed by Sirius' death? Imagine what kind of leverage Voldemort would have over Harry if he had a girlfriend! Mind you I think Rowling will put one in, as a demonstration of Harry's character.

There are three obvious candidates:

1. Hermione remains top (despite my personal preference for Ginny). There have now been several occasions when she and Harry double-teamed against a threat when no one else was able or willing to do so.
2. Ginny's sudden promotion to the senior team is another point in her favour, on top of the life-saving bond and the pre-teen crush. JKR does seem to be indicating that there is some kind of joint destiny between the two characters.
3. Luna is a fascinating character, and is similar to Harry in many ways. However, she is a late-comer, like Cho. While she may have a role to play, it seems more as Harry's instructor in the weirder arts and the use of his more unique abilities.

I am staying away from trying to guess her next moves...

[Crown]

WHY DID DUMBLEDORE'S EYES FLASH IN VICTORY?

That was actually brought up, it wasn't that he used Harry's blood, it is that Harry escaped. Voldemort's plan required that there be no witnesses to the event that would tell anyone he was on the way back. The dark lord intended on coming back slowly and quietly, Harry's escape compromised his strategy. Dumbledore realized that and then understood how he could use it against him.

I think you are confusing the parts where Sirius and Remus are explaining things to Harry. The scene I was refering to was at the end of Goblet, when Harry is recalling all the nights events to Sirius and Dumbledore, at the mention that Voldemort used his blood in the Dark spell, Sirius goes balistic, and Dumbledore's eys flash in victory (for a second), before saying 'So he has circumvented that obstacle' or something to that affect. Ben had a nice theory on it (see above).

Percy. Is he truly that ambitious? Why wasn't he in Slytherin then? What's going to happen now with him

I think he was just so full of himself that he felt his family was beneath him and errant. I have a feeling that the Weasley's aren't going to be too eager to bring him back into the fold.

True, but he was placed into Gryfyndor for a reason, I suspect we might eventually see some heroics from him.

I wonder if there will be any ramifications to that curse...Crucio is an unforgivable curse right?

Absolutely. However the only witnessess are Harry, Bellatrix and possibly Voldemort. It all rests on whether Harry chooses to devulge this information to anyone, and whether he even considers it worth the bother.

[Crown]

Ok, I haven't read any of the books at all, no time really, only seen the two movies, I've heard that a major character gets killed in this latest book. Since this is a spoiler thread and most of what is being talked here is really confusing me since alot happens the the books not yet made into movies, Who died and how? Please forgive my ignorence about the subject if someone did indeed bring it up in the thread. I just want to know who and who he was in the movies if he's already been introduced in the movies. Thanks.

You have to read the books! They are well worth the time, and the first three are really short, it shouldn't take more than a week (reading about 40 mins each night) to finish them. You also get a clearer idea of the roles everyone plays.

[Crown]

Ok, I haven't read any of the books at all, no time really, only seen the two movies, I've heard that a major character gets killed in this latest book. Since this is a spoiler thread and most of what is being talked here is really confusing me since alot happens the the books not yet made into movies, Who died and how? Please forgive my ignorence about the subject if someone did indeed bring it up in the thread. I just want to know who and who he was in the movies if he's already been introduced in the movies. Thanks.

Okay, first things first. The movies are crap! Compared to the book they are feeble mockeries that should never have been made. You simply can't capture the world of Harry Potter and put it on film. The only useful thing they accomplish is to provide a face for the characters and show us what Quidditch looks like.

I just wanted to add to Steven's post, they also showed us how to pronounce Hermione's name, and that's about it!

[Crazedwraith]

Personally i dont the book 5 was very good. The overall plot didn't seem strong. However it has provided an insite considering what the sorting had said i think that one of the main plots of the next books will be the houses uniting. And deat lil draco coming to the side of good.

Oh yesa and the movies are crap and deserve to be boiled to death in frog-spawn

[Setzer]

The Harry Potter Movies suffered from the same problem as the Dune movie (not the mini-series) It's simply too much book to cram into an hour or 2.

[Batman]

The Harry Potter Movies suffered from the same problem as the Dune movie (not the mini-series) It's simply too much book to cram into an hour or 2.

Agreed, though in my opinion they did very well in the time they had available. I thoroughly enjoyed both of them.
Mind you, I liked the 'dune' movie, so that's not neccessarily saying much.

[Shortie]

Am I the only person who found Sirius's death kinda anti-climatic? Never mind that if Harry had just opened his damn present the whole thing wouldn't have happened, but it was just really random.

Personally I think Umbridge being killed in front of them because they lured her into the forest would have been better, though you'd have had to leave out her doing the Cruiciatus curse and setting the Dementors on Harry to give them some serious guilt. Besides, I like(d) Sirius. He was seriously hard done by all through the book.

One thing I do like is the total screw-up that is wizard society. The only reputable news is state-controlled? What was it, 20 of the most senior governmental figures trying a teenager? The government passing a stack of laws in days to take over a historically independant institution, and putting a total psycho in charge?

[Steven Snyder]

Am I the only person who found Sirius's death kinda anti-climatic?

I found it quick, and brutally realistic. Now what I mean by that is in reality if someone gets fatally shot, they generally don't expect it and die without much more than a whimper.

The fact that he didn't get a chance to tell Harry anything, or have some sort of heroic proportion makes it more tragic. Sirius died because Harry (again) didn't listen.

Never mind that if Harry had just opened his damn present the whole thing wouldn't have happened, but it was just really random.

Actually the mirror may not have done him any good, if Sirius didn't have it around or couldn't have heard it then it wouldn't have made any difference.

The real problem is that he didn't listen to all the people that told him to learn Occlumency. This makes me really want to smack Harry, Dumbledore told him to before he had to flee, he implored him to do it. And Harry, as I expected him to, just blew it off.

Sirius died because Harry couldn't swallow his pride and apologize to Snape. I really hope he learns his lesson this time.

[JodoForce]

However one of the most memorable scenes is when Fred and George leave Hogwarts.

Well, the two high points for me in this book were both related to the struggle against Umbridge--firstly Harry's interview showing up in the Quibbler and the teachers' reactions (Trelawney's prediction had me absolutely ROTFLMAO ) and secondly the two Fred & George vs Umbridge scenes and the following mayhem We readers in HK feel especially sympathetic to the power struggle at Hogwarts, especially with the parallels between the ban on student organisations in Educational Decree No. 24 and the Basic Law Article No.23 in HK currently undergoing legislation... *shudder* so the school's success against the Ministry is especially heart-warming and gives me hope in a silly sort of way

The ending OTOH was horrible. I've already posted my thoughts on that in two other threads so you can look them up there

[Alex Moon]

One thing I do like is the total screw-up that is wizard society. The only reputable news is state-controlled? What was it, 20 of the most senior governmental figures trying a teenager? The government passing a stack of laws in days to take over a historically independant institution, and putting a total psycho in charge?

Indeed, I am beginning to pity characters like Snape because once you see the kind of society that they grow up in their attitudes become understandable to some degree. Snape spent his school years being bullied by James Potter, and the staff seemed to approve! He probably fears that Harry will be the exact same. Take the term Muggles for example. Try replacing it with "nigger" and see how it sounds. Is it suprising that many have attitudes that would rivel those of many rural areas in the South? Look at the fact that many wizards and witches are so removed from non-magical society that they don't even understand the basics of its clothes. They have isolated themselves and this isolation allows for corruption to sink in because there is no way to keep it in check. There are few outside ideas coming into the magical society, and most witches and wizards have no clue about the nonmagical world, so cannot see the problems clearly because that's the way it's always been. If wizards and witches were more involved with the outside world, the Ministry would never have been able to pull off the shit that it had.

[Enforcer Talen]

so I finished the book recently, and I have a few comments. one, harry seems to be letting his fame get to his head. "Im harry potter. I deserve everything." it really starts to grate, and I wanted to bitchslap the little kid more then once.
snape is becoming more human I guess. not sure I like the look - his calmness and sarcasm was what I preferred. I wonder how he and a young raistlin would get along.
harry's rlationship with cho - god, but he's a moron. he could have taken her heart in a ribbon with a little effort, and even when he fucked it up on vday, he should have apologized to her. publicly, if possible, with some gifts involved that quidditch team she likes, just as a begging for forgiveness.
course, that *is* his first relationship, and I remember similar mistakes, but he has hermy to tell him what hes doing wrong.
the fighting in hogwarts was really quite amusing. I would have preferred reading that to self righteous harry.
and, about that pen - Im betting there are some bdsm couples who would simply love it.

[BenRG]

One thing I do like is the total screw-up that is wizard society. The only reputable news is state-controlled? What was it, 20 of the most senior governmental figures trying a teenager? The government passing a stack of laws in days to take over a historically independant institution, and putting a total psycho in charge?

I liked this feature of the story too.

Am I the only one who sees the wizard society as a satire of our own society. The 'Prophet' is supposed to be independent, but follows the party line (Fox News anyone?). The whole weight of the government is dropped on the head of one teenager with inconvenient views, and the whole 'High Inquisitor' thing made me think "USA PATRIOT Act".

[JodoForce]

JKR lives in Britain though right?

[InnerBrat]

I want to talk about Dudley, as I'm very worried about what he's getting up to at that all-boys school. Regardless of the homophobic jab he makes at Harry, whihc could be indicative of his own confused feelings - did anyone get the Deliverance reference very early on? H'es becoming more evil then Draco!

[BenRG]

JKR lives in Britain though right?

It doesn't matter. She could find out a lot from the 'Net and even some mainstream news agencies. We aren't completely isolated from stuff that happens on the other side of the pond, you know.