Here's a goofy one for ya.

[KK]

In the DBZ wankverse, maybe, but not anywhere else. Although they might be immunde from DBZ-verse telekinesis, they are not immune from the Force tk.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

You would have to make a good case for that bullshit argument, which can't be done.

[Mephistopheles]

And are old enough to use the internet, I might add.

Ever wonder what happens if you chain under developed primates to a TV showing bad animation and then let a horde of them loose on a computer.....the above people are a horrifying example....

Most of us are not even fans of DBZ, we just do not believe that the Sith can beat galaxy busters.

[fgalkin]

This sums up my feelings:

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[T-1000]

Lets see...where to start....

DBZ meet BDZ. Much better really.

Just because they are immune to powers of people who use similar shit doesnt make them blanket immune to the Force....how's about a nice darkside fueled force storm for ruining your little wanking day?

Can it destroy the planet?

If not, they don't even feel it.

If so, that means that they can generate as much energy as Vegeta could when he first came to earth. Of course that kind of power is still childs play compared to the massive increase in power that the Z fighters have undergone in the ten years (story time) between then and the Buu saga.

Do you people not get why the Z fighters are so ridiculously overpowered that its a slaughter to compare them to anyone else? It's because they were blowing up planets in the begining of the series, and have only gotten a hell of a lot more powerful since then.

[Strider119]

All insults and name calling aside, is everyone in agreement that the DBZ folks are more powerful than Vader and Palpatine?

I just want to know if I should keep debating or just start slinging insults around all over the place like everyone else




the silver bullet:
Strider119

[Jove]

All insults and name calling aside, is everyone in agreement that the DBZ folks are more powerful than Vader and Palpatine?

I just want to know if I should keep debating or just start slinging insults around all over the place like everyone else




the silver bullet:
Strider119

'

Agreed.

I have neither the time nor the inclination to engage in a simple apelike slinging of feces.

Let's cut through the bullshit, folks.

[T-1000]

All insults and name calling aside, is everyone in agreement that the DBZ folks are more powerful than Vader and Palpatine?

I just want to know if I should keep debating or just start slinging insults around all over the place like everyone else




the silver bullet:
Strider119

I'm definatly running on the whole "DBZ-vaporizes-the-Sith-without-breaking-a-sweat" ballot.

[Arthur_Tuxedo]

OK, first of all, let me say that DBZ is a horrible show. My roomate used to watch it almost every day and it was fucking awful. And don't tell me it's because so much was "lost in the translation", either, because that doesn't excuse characters flying off the handle and waving their arms up and down, yelling over shit that not even a 3 year old would give a flying fuck about. And it certainly doesn't excuse the way each entire episode builds up toward an event, and then the show ends with a cliff-hanger, and then the event the last show was building up toward turns out to be insignificant. Then there's the wanking aspect (it's not a laser, it's a super ultimate power laser). It made me want to throw up my guts.

That being said, I'm pretty sure Vader and Palpy would win. We never saw Palpy fight, but it's not unreasonable to assume that he should be able to pull a Yoda (ie. produce a lightsaber and move like an 18-year old gymnist) based on the fact that Yoda spent years hiding from Palpy on Dagobah (after seeing his performance in AOTC we can conclude that he certainly wasn't hiding from Vader). Also, we saw Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon slip out of phase, avoiding a blaster bolt, and move insanely fast in TPM. Based on Palpy's force storm in the comics which destroyed, among other things, a 17.6 km ship whose shields can handle teratons or possibly quadratons of energy, I don't see how any DBZ character could stand a chance.

[T-1000]

OK, first of all, let me say that DBZ is a horrible show. My roomate used to watch it almost every day and it was fucking awful. And don't tell me it's because so much was "lost in the translation", either, because that doesn't excuse characters flying off the handle and waving their arms up and down, yelling over shit that not even a 3 year old would give a flying fuck about. And it certainly doesn't excuse the way each entire episode builds up toward an event, and then the show ends with a cliff-hanger, and then the event the last show was building up toward turns out to be insignificant. Then there's the wanking aspect (it's not a laser, it's a super ultimate power laser). It made me want to throw up my guts.

That being said, I'm pretty sure Vader and Palpy would win. We never saw Palpy fight, but it's not unreasonable to assume that he should be able to pull a Yoda (ie. produce a lightsaber and move like an 18-year old gymnist) based on the fact that Yoda spent years hiding from Palpy on Dagobah (after seeing his performance in AOTC we can conclude that he certainly wasn't hiding from Vader). Also, we saw Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon slip out of phase, avoiding a blaster bolt, and move insanely fast in TPM. Based on Palpy's force storm in the comics which destroyed, among other things, a 17.6 km ship whose shields can handle teratons or possibly quadratons of energy, I don't see how any DBZ character could stand a chance.

So, when you say that you used to watch DBZ, really, you are just lying to our face so that you can pretend to sound reasonable in your obviously fan-based belief that DBZ looses.

Goku and Co fire planet smashing blasts, move at the speed of light (that's right light), reduce mountains with casual blasts, cause major geological upheaval just by powering up, and it escapes your imagination how they might win this one?

[Arthur_Tuxedo]

So, when you say that you used to watch DBZ, really, you are just lying to our face so that you can pretend to sound reasonable in your obviously fan-based belief that DBZ looses.

Actually, I said my roomate used to watch it. Learn to read, asshole. So, no, I don't know anything about DBZ other than that it sucks inflamed donkey balls and never claimed to. Never once did I mention DBZ characters, just posted what a reasonable observer could conclude Palpy was capable of and saying that I doubted a DBZ character could handle that.

Goku and Co fire planet smashing blasts, move at the speed of light (that's right light), reduce mountains with casual blasts, cause major geological upheaval just by powering up, and it escapes your imagination how they might win this one?

So they win. Whooptie-shit! Now excuse me while I think up a universe where characters move at infinite speeds and accidently destroy galaxies. I'll call it wankverse. DBZ suXX0rZ, Wankverse ownz DBZ! WHEEEE!

[Strider119]

OK, first of all, let me say that DBZ is a horrible show. My roomate used to watch it almost every day and it was fucking awful. And don't tell me it's because so much was "lost in the translation", either, because that doesn't excuse characters flying off the handle and waving their arms up and down, yelling over shit that not even a 3 year old would give a flying fuck about. And it certainly doesn't excuse the way each entire episode builds up toward an event, and then the show ends with a cliff-hanger, and then the event the last show was building up toward turns out to be insignificant. Then there's the wanking aspect (it's not a laser, it's a super ultimate power laser). It made me want to throw up my guts.

That being said, I'm pretty sure Vader and Palpy would win. We never saw Palpy fight, but it's not unreasonable to assume that he should be able to pull a Yoda (ie. produce a lightsaber and move like an 18-year old gymnist) based on the fact that Yoda spent years hiding from Palpy on Dagobah (after seeing his performance in AOTC we can conclude that he certainly wasn't hiding from Vader). Also, we saw Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon slip out of phase, avoiding a blaster bolt, and move insanely fast in TPM. Based on Palpy's force storm in the comics which destroyed, among other things, a 17.6 km ship whose shields can handle teratons or possibly quadratons of energy, I don't see how any DBZ character could stand a chance.

well you are certainly entitled to your opinon but just because you didnt like the show dosen't mean they would lose. Personally I am not a fan of DBZ, but I have debated agaisnt DBZ characters enough times to realize one little bit of information:

DBZ characters are unparalleled in power in any form of entertainment

I mean the creator of DBZ had to keep upping the bar with each villian he introduced. So when the first villian shows up and moves faster than people can see, he has to make the next one capable of destroying a planet, then the next one has to be able to destroy galaxies ... and so on and so forth to keep the villians challenging for the heros.

Don't be upset that SW can't compete with DBZ powerlevels. It's not that big of a deal, because no other conceptual characters in entertainment can do it either. It's just soemthing ya gotta get used to. I am a fan of comics, but I openly acknowledge that a character who can destroy solar systems with MINIMAL effort is gonna beat Superman or Thor or whoever. Ya just gotta accept it and let it go


Palpatine mgith be able to pull a yoda and flip around like it's nothing. But he wasn't moving at light speeds.

If you are fighting a character who can move at light speeds, and you yourself cannot move at light speeds... the whole argument is kinda moot.

I am a SW fan and I consider myself failry well versed in the SW universe .... but they dont have what it takes to take out a DBZ saiyan during the Buu saga. The universe as a whole has nothign to compete with them and I am including the really powerfull gys who use crap to deform themselves and are immune to force powers (thier name escapes me)

NO ONE IN SW BEATS DBZ, crappy as you conside the show, they are uuber powerful

Read the other posts in the thread to see my arguments, I really don't feel like repeating myself




Dude, where's my car?
Strider119

[KK]

Bottom Line:

The DBZ side of the debate has based their argument on displayed powers and abilities and by comparing feats.

The SW side of the debate as based their argument on DBZ sucking.

One of those is entirely flawed.

[Drach]

I suggested it because I was bored on my day off work, so far its been quite entertaining *grabs some popcorn and keeps reading*

[Frank Hipper]

Bottom Line:

The DBZ side of the debate has based their argument on displayed powers and abilities and by comparing feats.

The SW side of the debate as based their argument on DBZ sucking.

One of those is entirely flawed.

No.
Some people have actually been moved to argue this, if you could be bothered to turn away from your presumptions and read the entire thread.

[T-1000]

Bottom Line:

The DBZ side of the debate has based their argument on displayed powers and abilities and by comparing feats.

The SW side of the debate as based their argument on DBZ sucking.

One of those is entirely flawed.

I think there has been plenty of blame for both sides to share in.

DBZ side: DBZ wins through sheer power. Hey, you over there, I hate you! You're a big jerk. I don't care if you aren't interested in this thread, I hate you anyway.

SW side: The Sith win because they can choke. DBZ is stupid and nobody watches it anymore.

Incidently, this was for anyone coming it that missed all the excitement.

[Genfreak]

Based on Palpy's force storm in the comics which destroyed, among other things, a 17.6 km ship whose shields can handle teratons or possibly quadratons of energy, I don't see how any DBZ character could stand a chance.

Because I have seen Trunks take a blast that was going to anihilate planet Earth strait in the face and smile about it, and that same Trunks was Goku's inferior.

Seriously, destroying that starship is not that impressive compared to things done in DBZ. Not in the least.

We are talking about characters that could have destroyed the death star by waving their hand at it, and be in the center of the explosion and not even have their hair moved by the shockwave.

Is anyone going to even try and counter one of these points, or are they just going to continue to plug their hands in their ears and pout while defending themselves with the inane rantings of the hopelessly childish and horrifically ignorant?

Nothing the Emp or Darth have can effect these guys. It is like asking a child to beat an elephant with its bare hands. Actually less than that, since the child might hit some kind of fluke weak spot and succeed, where Vader and the Emp fail horribly in this fight.

[Kuja]

WILL EVERYONE SHUT THE FUCK UP AND KNOCK IT OFF WITH THE FLAMES?!





Now that that's out of the way...

fgalkin, Darth Wong, Durran Korr, and some others: I happen to watch AND LIKE DragonballZ. Every one of those insults about "people old enough to like DBZ and use a computer" I take personally.


Next up, back to the actual DEBATE, the REASON for this thread.

First, power:

Vegeta, at power level 18,000, was able to destroy the planet Arlia with virtually no warm-up time. He pointed at it, fired an energy blast, and blew it up.

Vegeta in his Oozaru (King Kong) form was able to smash entire mountains of rock, yet when he grabbed Goku in both hands and squeezed, all he did was break a few bones. Goku suffered no permenent injuries.

Nappa, at power level 8,000, was able to destroy about 1/3 of a city in a few seconds without even breaking a sweat. Later, he took on a carrier battle group, complete with fighter jets, BAREHANDED and utterly wiped them out with zero injuries. The anime showed him tearing through the fuselages of the jets, ripping their wings off, and throwing them to the ground.

Vegeta was about to destroy the planet Namek with an energy blast, but form IV Frieza blocked it with A KICK. Damage to Frieza = zero. He wasn't even breathing hard.

Speed:

DBZ characters are clearly capable of FTL speeds. During season 2 of the original Dragonball series, Krillon and Master Roshi leaped at each other, flashed out of view, then landed again. They then had to go through an elaborate set of moves to show the audience what happened in less than a second.

Goku's spaceship was stated numerous times as being able to reach the planet Namek in 50 days. Earlier in the series, Bulma did some calculations after being told Namek's coordinates and showed Krillon that it would take well upwards of 1,000 years for a normal Earth ship to do it. (I can't remember the exact figure) Meanwhile, a Namekian ship was capable of making the journy in only six days. Clearly, this is FTL.

I bring this up because King Kai, who helped train Goku, was able to track Goku the entire time he was on the ship by sensing his mind (no gadgets at work, just telepathy). However, when Goku fought Frieza, they were moving so quickly, King Kai was no longer able to keep track of them.

Other things to note:

Vegeta, once he joins the good guys, spends much of his time honing his martial arts skills in a speacialized gravity chamber that can pump up the gravity to 500 times that of Earth, and Vegeta often leaves it at the highest setting (we see the display flashing 500G while Vegeta is practicing).

At a power level of "merely" 105 (stated), Master Roshi is capable of destroying the moon. The average human being has a power level of about 5 (stated).

At power level 1,200, Raditz caught a rifle bullet at point-blank range, then through it back hard enough for it to pass through the body of the man who fired it and through the tailgate of his truck. Raditz later picked up the truck one-handed and destroyed it with minimal effort.

As a kid (about 12/13, I'd guess) Vegeta annihilated a Dark Ages-level army. (seen in one of the TV specials).

Vegeta, Nappa, and Raditz conquered the planet Shik, which seemed to be on par with modern-day Earth (we see soldiers carrying rifles and wearing body armor) in three days.

Cell annihilated a modern-day army (complete with infantry, tanks, and support vehicles) in about a second using his energy blasts. Damage to Cell = zero. He wasn't even breathing hard.

After season 2, Goku is capable of traveling between solar systems INSTANTLY using his Shunkanido teleporting (it's translated as Instant Transmission).

Now, all this is in the first three seasons of DBZ. Buu shows up in the 4th season, by which time DBZ characters must force themselves to hold themselves back to keep from destroying Earth every time they fight (stated).




Now, you can read all of what I've posted and call it a wankfest. It probably is, but I don't give a flying fuck. I want to see someone honestly argue that Palpatine and Vader can take on Season 4 Goku and Gohan.

[Arthur_Tuxedo]

And you felt compared to share this with us even though, in fact, you haven't watched DBZ, and therefore have absoultely no knowledge of what we are talking about? Wow, that's even worse. Now I can disregard everything you say because you're ignorant. Before, it was just because you were stupid.

I should really let this vat of stupidity you call a post speak for itself, but I just can't help myself. First of all, thank you very much for providing an example of an actual ad-hominem to contrast with the previous to claims. Second, you'll notice I was only talking about Palpy and Vader, not things I admittedly know very little about. Third, you can't share a room with someone without watching at least a couple episodes of his favorite show, so I did in fact know what I was talking about when I bashed it for the worthless piece of brain-rot it is.

I don't argue that this is a major mismatch, but there is obviously a major confusion as to which side is which here. Personnaly, I don't know what compelled whoever to suggest the fight.

The reason Star Wars fans think SW would win is because they (like me) know nothing or next to nothing about DBZ. For my part, I don't give a shit about this argument and wouldn't care about this thread if DW hadn't been posting amusing flamage and if I didn't have pent-up anger at DBZ and its fans to release.

[BlackWarMewtwo]

Goku and Co fire planet smashing blasts, move at the speed of light (that's right light), reduce mountains with casual blasts, cause major geological upheaval just by powering up, and it escapes your imagination how they might win this one?

So they win. Whooptie-shit! Now excuse me while I think up a universe where characters move at infinite speeds and accidently destroy galaxies. I'll call it wankverse. DBZ suXX0rZ, Wankverse ownz DBZ! WHEEEE!

Your argument is misaimed, seeing as how T-1000 didn't start this thread. He merely entered this thread and treated it seriously. And most people are in agreement: Yes, these characters are massively overpowered. Yes, many people on both sides can't stand the show. Yes, the DBZ characters are too overpowered for these Force users to defeat them.

There are still people who have argued that Palpatine can produce more force than the planet busting shots DBZ characters take on a regular basis, and despite Yogi's calculations to disprove it, they haven't accepted defeat or challenged the calculations.

[Bug-Eyed Earl]

You know what? I like DBZ, but Wong and Hipper's remarks didn't really bother me. They were just wisecracks, nothing more. I can't believe people flipped out over them.

[T-1000]

Go on, pat yourself on the back for showing that your wank-verse is more powerful than two characters from SW. Tomorrow, we can do Galactus vs DBZ, or the Beyonder vs everybody.

People normally pit sci-fi universes against those that are either reasonably comparable or commonly argued to be reasonably comparable. When people deliberately create obvious gross mismatches, it is chalked up to fanboyism.

Uhmm, we didn't start this thread. I would never even suggest such a lopsided fight. However, it started when numerous SW fans came in saying that the Sith win.

It was pretty much at that point that most of the DBZ fans came in. But we didn't start this.

Incidently, I have argued DBZ vs Galactus and such. DBZ looses.

[T-1000]

Uh huh.... so where do I fit into this, exactly? Unaware of the full extent of the DBZ wankness, I thought that Palpy and Vader would win because Palpy's damn powerful. Once proven wrong, I abandoned the argument and proceeded to harp on how much DBZ sucks sweaty donkey balls. Do you deny that DBZ, in fact, sucks sweaty inflamed donkey balls?

We don't know. Why are you still here? You're not arguing anything, so I'm not sure why you don't just go.

[Arthur_Tuxedo]

So you really having nothing to say and are simply posting because you have some sort of childish grudge and want to yell at people?

Basically.

Man, got to respect a man who willing admits that he is sniveling child whose opinion is uneducated and worthless, and is so insecure and cowardly he likes degrading others over the internet.

Hey now, be fair. I like degrading others face to face, too. Especially if they like DBZ or Xena Warrior Princess or any other airwave flatulence.

Actually no, its not respect, it is more like mocking laughter at such a sad and pathetic admission.

Laugh all you like, the fact remains that you watch a show with the entertainment value of excruciating constipation.

[Kuja]

So you really having nothing to say and are simply posting because you have some sort of childish grudge and want to yell at people?

Basically.

In that case, GET THE FUCK OUT OF WHAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE A DEBATE THREAD. YOU ARE ONLY MAKING IT WORSE.

[Crown]

Thread locked. I will re-open it in a few minutes, I am just going to split the shit into HOS. The only reason I am going to leave this thread in hear is because Iggy actually was still trying to debate on page 8.

EDIT: I have split the non-debate stuff into the HOS, you can view it here. I have tried being as fair as possible about this, so I don't want to hear any bitchin'.


Thread un-locked.