Game of Thrones season eight force additions (MAJOR SPOILERS).

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Game of Thrones season eight force additions (MAJOR SPOILERS).

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-04-30 06:07am

So, in the latest episode of Game of Thrones, the combined armies of Daenarys, the North, and whatever's left of the Night's Watch and Wildlings faced off against the White Walkers. Though they were ultimately victorious, they prevailed only at the last moment, thanks to Melisandra's powers, Arya's assassin skills, and likely Bran's foresight. The Walls of Winterfell were breached, and most of the army appeared to be slaughtered. And some of their tactics were... remarkably lacking, as is typical of fantasy battles. So let's see if, with some help, they can do better.

Scenario One: Team Fellowship. The Fellowship of the Ring as of leaving Rivendell is transported to Winterfell. Jon promises to put all the resources of Westeros at their disposal to help them get home and continue their quest if they help him hold Winterfell.

Scenario Two: Team Sunnydale. Buffy, Faith, Xander, Willow, Dawn, Giles, and Spike are transported to Winterfell shortly after the destruction of Sunnydale. Buffy has the Scythe, which for the purposes of this thread will smite White Walkers and their minions as well as Valyrian steel. The others can be outfitted with melee and ranged weapons of their choice as well as armor from the Winterfell armories. They will fight off this latest appocalypse in exchange for help getting home.

Scenario Three: Team Dresden. Harry Dresden, Winter Knight is sent to Westeros through the Never Never. He arrives post-Skin Game, equipped with his staff, blasting rod, shield bracelet, force rings, enchanted coat, and a revolver. He is under orders from Mab to eliminate this upstart who claims to control Winter. He is joined by Molly Carpenter the Winter Lady, Karen Murphy with her usual hand gun and katana ensemble, Thomas Raith with gun and knife, and the new Knight of the Cross Waldo Butters, with the holy sword Fidelachius.

Scenario Four: Team Timey-Wimey. The 13th. Doctor arrives in Winterfell, accompanied by her companions. She has her sonic screwdriver, psychic paper, and any other of the usual gadget she might have. The group may request arms and armour from Winterfell's armory. The TARDIS is functional, but the Night King breaching the Wall, as well as Jon Snow's death and resurrection, is a fixed point in Time and cannot be altered. The Doctor intervenes because... she's the Doctor, nothing more need be said.

Scenario Five: Team Macedonia. Alexander the Great is transported to Winterfell, and is accompanied by the Royal Squadron of his Companion Cavalry (300 heavy cavalry armed with lance and sword, as per Wikipedia). Alexander has been promised territory in Westeros where he can start to build an empire in this new world, if he helps hold Winterfell.

The reinforcing group's objective is to aid in the defeat of the Night King without letting the walls of Winterfell be breached or the civilians be slaughtered.

Can any of them do it?
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Re: Game of Thrones season eight force additions (MAJOR SPOILERS).

Post by Esquire » 2019-04-30 10:06am

My immediate thought is that Teams Dresden and Sunnydale are the most useful. Team Fellowship just adds a few really good, but basically mundane fighters (although I want Gimli and Tyrion to have a chat), and Team Timey Wimey js completely unsuited to this sort of thing. Team Macedonia might at least make the tactics used less abysmally stupid, but Alexander hasn't fought a ravenous horde of unflinching zombies before and will be working from first principles.
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Re: Game of Thrones season eight force additions (MAJOR SPOILERS).

Post by streetad » 2019-04-30 12:43pm

I think Buffy (or Spike) stands as good a chance as anyone of taking out the Night's King if they can get close enough to him. The White Walkers in general and the NK in particular seem to enjoy duelling human champions as long as they are sure they have the upper hand, using Buffy as a bodyguard to Bran in Theon's place seems a good play.

Alexander might be able to ensure the defences hold out a bit longer, but it's not a battle that you can win conventionally using pre-20th century forces.

The Fellowship - do they have insane film Legolas who can surf over all the Zombies, back flip over the White Walkers and put an obsidian arrow through the Night King's forehead? Apart from Gandalf and his ambiguous demigod powers (although he's still 'grey' at this point) the others wouldn't make much of a difference. Any one of Aragorn, Boromir or Gimli could presumably organise a siege defence more competently than anyone present in Winterfell though.

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Re: Game of Thrones season eight force additions (MAJOR SPOILERS).

Post by Tribble » 2019-04-30 01:07pm

With a functioning Tardis only thing really holding back team Timey Wimey is morals. So what if the actual breaching of the wall is a fixed point? With a functioning Tardis they could just fly right over to the Night King and off him and there wouldn’t be a damn thing he could do about it. Apart from regular White Walker weaknesses there’s quite a few ways they could do it - as one example, I doubt he’d survive if they increase the mass of the Tardis to some absurd amount (IIRC the Tardis could literally crack the Earth in half on landing if most of it’s mass wasn’t in a separate dimension) and just land it on top of him. :P

Morals on they could still do quite a bit, such as putting the Tardis in the breach and extending its shields to cover the gap while they figure out what to do . I doubt the White Walkers have anything that could break into a Tardis.

Edit: also, theoretically since there is clearly some kind of magic/ energy interconnecting all of the walkers and wights together, it’s possible the Doctor with the Tardis could analyse it and figure out a way to cancel it out. Not a guarantee but it’s soemthing to consider.

Honestly I think the Tardis should be unavailable as its way to overpowered for this scenario.
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Re: Game of Thrones season eight force additions (MAJOR SPOILERS).

Post by Tribble » 2019-04-30 01:22pm

Come to think of it, with the Tardis’ translation circuits the Doctor may be able to communicate with the White Walkers and Night King and figure out their motivations and what they really want? Judging from what I’ve seen it seems more like revenge/ for the Evilz, but who knows? Maybe he just wanted a cup of coffee, or wanted to go somewhere sunny for a vacation :P
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Re: Game of Thrones season eight force additions (MAJOR SPOILERS).

Post by Solauren » 2019-04-30 05:44pm

Force Additions? Hell minor changes to their battle tactics would make a major improvement to the defenders results.

So, let's assume it's Alexander organizing the defense.

#1 - Put the flaming trenches further from WInterfell's walls. Say 200 feet further out
#2 - Put the Unsullied behind the flaming trenches. Preferably with longer spears, tipped with dragonglass.
#3 - Hold the Dothraki back. (and when Melissandre shows up, tell her to hold her power in reserve for a bit)
#4 - Daeny and Jon are to be off to the side, and launch an attack on the undead when called for. Strafing run over them (side by side)
#5 - Lots more archers on the battlements. That could be a logistical limitation, however.

Tactics are simple
1 - Let the Undead charge. Then light the trenches. They'll stop, and the Unsullied we be able to spear them through the flames.
2 - John and Daeny sweep over on their dragons, breath weapon the undead.
3 - NOW the Dothraki charge.
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Re: Game of Thrones season eight force additions (MAJOR SPOILERS).

Post by Majin Gojira » 2019-04-30 05:52pm

Scenario 1: I'd argue that a reforged Second age Elven/Numenorian sword would be similar to Valerian Steel, given how it harms the Ghosts. Aragorn might be able to concoct a better strategy than what we got, but ... not much else is added tactically.

Scenario 2: It's not Buffy, Faith, or Spike you need to worry about. No, it's Willow and Xander.

Willow has, in her arsenal, a powerful barrier spell to reinforce any barriers they have. Teleportation, fireballs, flight, shields -- she's a dragon in her own right. Hell, depending on what print resources Giles has with him, summoning a being of elemental fire is not out of the question.

Xander is subtler, but thanks to his experiences as a soldier-for-a-few-hours-via-magic-memory-swap... He might be able to Army of Darkness up some Gunpowder with Giles' help. And suddenly, they have explosive artillery.

Team Dresden: Karen is probably the least useful, unless she finds a way to the Westerosi to forge her from Dragon Glass bullets. But the assassination plan becomes Plan A, with the rest of the battle being a distraction. And with Molly on their side, it becomes ridiculously easy to sneak up on him. Killing him is another matter, but if Waldo is on Team Sneaky, it's definitely doable.

Scenario 4: The Doctor might help in crafting something like Greek Fire, but stand up fights are not exactly the doctor's forte.

Scenario 5: Tactical improvement, but I see little else being added.
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Re: Game of Thrones season eight force additions (MAJOR SPOILERS).

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-05-01 11:50pm

Esquire wrote:
2019-04-30 10:06am
My immediate thought is that Teams Dresden and Sunnydale are the most useful. Team Fellowship just adds a few really good, but basically mundane fighters (although I want Gimli and Tyrion to have a chat), and Team Timey Wimey js completely unsuited to this sort of thing. Team Macedonia might at least make the tactics used less abysmally stupid, but Alexander hasn't fought a ravenous horde of unflinching zombies before and will be working from first principles.
Team Dresden definitely will be, as either a Knight or Harry or Molly singly is a real threat to the Night King.

Team Sunydale is a few good fighters... plus Willow.

I think you're underrating Team Fellowship, though. Aragorn (at least the book version) is probably a better commander than any they have, and Gandalf is almost another Melisandra in terms of fire magic. As to the Doctor... direct combat isn't the Doctor's style. Going back in time to subtly plant the future seeds of her enemy's defeat is. So is technobabble (maybe find some way to mess with whatever magic links the Night King and his minions). Or negotiation, but I doubt that will work here.

If nothing else, park the TARDIS in the crypts and the poor bastards down there have a possible escape route if everything goes to hell.

Alexander was picked partly to offset the tactical deficiencies, yes. The Companion Cavalry were elite fighters, but 300 more elite fighters isn't likely to change much in a battle of that scale, especially not cavalry (I thought about giving Alexander a phalanx, but no one else got an entire army, and I figured if he got to take one unit, it would be his personal bodyguard).
streetad wrote:
2019-04-30 12:43pm
I think Buffy (or Spike) stands as good a chance as anyone of taking out the Night's King if they can get close enough to him. The White Walkers in general and the NK in particular seem to enjoy duelling human champions as long as they are sure they have the upper hand, using Buffy as a bodyguard to Bran in Theon's place seems a good play.
Spike... if he has a Valyrian steel sword or obsidian weapon, maybe. Then again, Spike was always more of a bare-knuckle brawler than a swordsman.

Buffy in Theon's place, with the Scythe... yeah, I'm giving that to Buffy. She has superhuman strength. The Night King is fast, but not much more (if at all more) than human, and his reflexes weren't good enough to stop Arya from succesfully ambushing and shanking him. Probably stronger than a human, but I don't recall any feat of strength of his that would be beyond Buffy Summers. Put her in melee range, one on one, with a weapon that can hurt him, and in all probability, he dies.

Then again, if the Night King knows that, he might very well avoid a duel altogether, and just swamp her with a thousand wights, or impale her from a hundred yards with one of those ice spears. He didn't seem to feel any compulsion to engage Jon Snow in single combat, and Jon is (no disrespect to Jon) a far less dangerous opponent than Buffy Summers in a duel (at least if you ignore BtVS's often-inferior fight scene choreography).
Alexander might be able to ensure the defences hold out a bit longer, but it's not a battle that you can win conventionally using pre-20th century forces.
I don't know about that. Take out the ice dragon, and its mostly just zombies. Relatively smart, fast zombies, yes, but its nothing a large phalanx with obsidian-tipped pikes, backed up by flaming missiles, shouldn't be able to handle, especially if you make sure to burn your own dead to prevent resurrection.

Well, depending on how quickly and often can the Night King do his mass resurrection, anyway. Having your own dead rise up behind your lines or under your feet is really bad for any sort of tactical planning. I'm not sure even a modern force could counter that if the Night King can do it pretty much instantly and at will.
The Fellowship - do they have insane film Legolas who can surf over all the Zombies, back flip over the White Walkers and put an obsidian arrow through the Night King's forehead? Apart from Gandalf and his ambiguous demigod powers (although he's still 'grey' at this point) the others wouldn't make much of a difference. Any one of Aragorn, Boromir or Gimli could presumably organise a siege defence more competently than anyone present in Winterfell though.
Book Fellowship, sorry for not clarifying that in the OP.
Tribble wrote:
2019-04-30 01:07pm
With a functioning Tardis only thing really holding back team Timey Wimey is morals. So what if the actual breaching of the wall is a fixed point? With a functioning Tardis they could just fly right over to the Night King and off him and there wouldn’t be a damn thing he could do about it. Apart from regular White Walker weaknesses there’s quite a few ways they could do it - as one example, I doubt he’d survive if they increase the mass of the Tardis to some absurd amount (IIRC the Tardis could literally crack the Earth in half on landing if most of it’s mass wasn’t in a separate dimension) and just land it on top of him. :P

Morals on they could still do quite a bit, such as putting the Tardis in the breach and extending its shields to cover the gap while they figure out what to do . I doubt the White Walkers have anything that could break into a Tardis.
The Walkers didn't just breach the walls, they climbed on top of each other to scale them, and then the Night King raised all the dead inside and in the crypts. Plugging a breach won't do jack against that. The Doctor's ability to pilot the TARDIS with precision is really inconsistent too.

But yes, the Doctor is pretty much the most absurdly powerful character this side of the Q continuum in anything except a direct physical confrontation without prep. time.
Edit: also, theoretically since there is clearly some kind of magic/ energy interconnecting all of the walkers and wights together, it’s possible the Doctor with the Tardis could analyse it and figure out a way to cancel it out. Not a guarantee but it’s soemthing to consider.
Yeah, I thought of that sort of move as well (see above).
Honestly I think the Tardis should be unavailable as its way to overpowered for this scenario.
I thought about that as well, but I guess it seemed too much like weighting it against the Doctor, depriving the Doctor of her main asset.
Tribble wrote:
2019-04-30 01:22pm
Come to think of it, with the Tardis’ translation circuits the Doctor may be able to communicate with the White Walkers and Night King and figure out their motivations and what they really want? Judging from what I’ve seen it seems more like revenge/ for the Evilz, but who knows? Maybe he just wanted a cup of coffee, or wanted to go somewhere sunny for a vacation :P
Maybe, but he seems pretty bent on pointlessly killing.

I expect the Doctor would try to communicate, the Night King would get some variation on the "one chance" speech, and then the fireworks would start.
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Re: Game of Thrones season eight force additions (MAJOR SPOILERS).

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-05-02 12:02am

Forgot to reply to these ones:
Solauren wrote:
2019-04-30 05:44pm
Force Additions? Hell minor changes to their battle tactics would make a major improvement to the defenders results.

So, let's assume it's Alexander organizing the defense.

#1 - Put the flaming trenches further from WInterfell's walls. Say 200 feet further out
#2 - Put the Unsullied behind the flaming trenches. Preferably with longer spears, tipped with dragonglass.
#3 - Hold the Dothraki back. (and when Melissandre shows up, tell her to hold her power in reserve for a bit)
#4 - Daeny and Jon are to be off to the side, and launch an attack on the undead when called for. Strafing run over them (side by side)
#5 - Lots more archers on the battlements. That could be a logistical limitation, however.

Tactics are simple
1 - Let the Undead charge. Then light the trenches. They'll stop, and the Unsullied we be able to spear them through the flames.
2 - John and Daeny sweep over on their dragons, breath weapon the undead.
3 - NOW the Dothraki charge.
That could work, if you also anticipate the risk of the dead in the crypts being raised.

I probably wouldn't use the Dothraki at all, though. Horses seem like a really bad thing to send against undead.

I think Alexander could make good use of the Unsullied- pike phalanxes being a major part of the Macedonian military. Although obviously the tactics would be somewhat different.
Majin Gojira wrote:
2019-04-30 05:52pm
Scenario 1: I'd argue that a reforged Second age Elven/Numenorian sword would be similar to Valerian Steel, given how it harms the Ghosts. Aragorn might be able to concoct a better strategy than what we got, but ... not much else is added tactically.
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Scenario 2: It's not Buffy, Faith, or Spike you need to worry about. No, it's Willow and Xander.

Willow has, in her arsenal, a powerful barrier spell to reinforce any barriers they have. Teleportation, fireballs, flight, shields -- she's a dragon in her own right. Hell, depending on what print resources Giles has with him, summoning a being of elemental fire is not out of the question.

Xander is subtler, but thanks to his experiences as a soldier-for-a-few-hours-via-magic-memory-swap... He might be able to Army of Darkness up some Gunpowder with Giles' help. And suddenly, they have explosive artillery.
Maybe... but IIRC the memories faded somewhat over time, and he never demonstrated knowledge of how to produce gunpowder (Would that be something a soldier with basic infantry training would know? I honestly don't know.).
Team Dresden: Karen is probably the least useful, unless she finds a way to the Westerosi to forge her from Dragon Glass bullets. But the assassination plan becomes Plan A, with the rest of the battle being a distraction. And with Molly on their side, it becomes ridiculously easy to sneak up on him. Killing him is another matter, but if Waldo is on Team Sneaky, it's definitely doable.
Yup.
Scenario 4: The Doctor might help in crafting something like Greek Fire, but stand up fights are not exactly the doctor's forte.

Scenario 5: Tactical improvement, but I see little else being added.
About right, although the Doctor isn't unfamiliar with stand-up fights by any means- he/she just prefers to avoid them as a general rule.
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Actually... its so far out of character for any Doctor except perhaps War, but the assassination plan might be an option here too. Perception filter plus archer with Time Lord reflexes and obsidian/Valyrian steel-tipped arrows.
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Re: Game of Thrones season eight force additions (MAJOR SPOILERS).

Post by NecronLord » 2019-05-02 12:31pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-04-30 06:07am
So, in the latest episode of Game of Thrones, the combined armies of Daenarys, the North, and whatever's left of the Night's Watch and Wildlings faced off against the White Walkers. Though they were ultimately victorious, they prevailed only at the last moment, thanks to Melisandra's powers, Arya's assassin skills, and likely Bran's foresight. The Walls of Winterfell were breached, and most of the army appeared to be slaughtered. And some of their tactics were... remarkably lacking, as is typical of fantasy battles. So let's see if, with some help, they can do better.

Scenario One: Team Fellowship. The Fellowship of the Ring as of leaving Rivendell is transported to Winterfell. Jon promises to put all the resources of Westeros at their disposal to help them get home and continue their quest if they help him hold Winterfell.
Gandalf might be able to enhance the fire defences in various ways. Legolas could be posted overlooking the godswood with obsidian arrows, to make the ambush more effective.

Experience in fighting against the undead, albeit much of it indirect except for the hobbits will make them wary of the crypts. The hobbits definately, and Gandalf probably know about how the Witch King of Angmar sent spirits to raise the dead kings of Arnor as barrow wights, as the hobbits were imprisoned by one in the books, in the more exiting part of the Tom Bombadil chapters. When they hear that the enemy is raising wights, this is what they'll think of, and that will ensure that the crypts are not used as a refuge, or if they are, the bodies of the dead are made non-useful.

Failure in goal 1; success in goal 2, they'll not hold the wall any better but might keep civilians from being slaughtered.
Scenario Two: Team Sunnydale. Buffy, Faith, Xander, Willow, Dawn, Giles, and Spike are transported to Winterfell shortly after the destruction of Sunnydale. Buffy has the Scythe, which for the purposes of this thread will smite White Walkers and their minions as well as Valyrian steel. The others can be outfitted with melee and ranged weapons of their choice as well as armor from the Winterfell armories. They will fight off this latest appocalypse in exchange for help getting home.
Experienced undead-fighters, definately will think the same, if in less specific terms, about the Crypts.

Success in saving the civilians or at least reducing their deaths.
Scenario Three: Team Dresden. Harry Dresden, Winter Knight is sent to Westeros through the Never Never. He arrives post-Skin Game, equipped with his staff, blasting rod, shield bracelet, force rings, enchanted coat, and a revolver. He is under orders from Mab to eliminate this upstart who claims to control Winter. He is joined by Molly Carpenter the Winter Lady, Karen Murphy with her usual hand gun and katana ensemble, Thomas Raith with gun and knife, and the new Knight of the Cross Waldo Butters, with the holy sword Fidelachius.
I know nothing of this franchise alas.
Scenario Four: Team Timey-Wimey. The 13th. Doctor arrives in Winterfell, accompanied by her companions. She has her sonic screwdriver, psychic paper, and any other of the usual gadget she might have. The group may request arms and armour from Winterfell's armory. The TARDIS is functional, but the Night King breaching the Wall, as well as Jon Snow's death and resurrection, is a fixed point in Time and cannot be altered. The Doctor intervenes because... she's the Doctor, nothing more need be said.
Hypothetically it would be easy enough to evacuate all the civilians to the Summer Isles. Also could use the TARDIS and take Bran to have a chat with the Night's King outside the castle and prevent the attack entirely. Hell, she could just take Bran up to Hardhome or somewhere and make the Night King have to turn around to fulfil his goals.

Protecting civilians is definately something the Doctor can do, if she'll actually use the TARDIS as a lifeboat, which isn't normally something she/he does.
Scenario Five: Team Macedonia. Alexander the Great is transported to Winterfell, and is accompanied by the Royal Squadron of his Companion Cavalry (300 heavy cavalry armed with lance and sword, as per Wikipedia). Alexander has been promised territory in Westeros where he can start to build an empire in this new world, if he helps hold Winterfell.
Well Alexander is a tactical genius, and given time, it would be nice to see the Unsullied using obsidian tipped sariassas, his contribution would be positive, but I don't know that he could actually do much about the dragon problem, although he's likely smarter than any of us and might reasonably be able to think of some way to lure Viserion into a disadvantageous engagement with Drogon and Rhaegal and allow him to be destroyed. He is noted as a cavalry commander, and the principles might be similar enough.
Actually... its so far out of character for any Doctor except perhaps War, but the assassination plan might be an option here too. Perception filter plus archer with Time Lord reflexes and obsidian/Valyrian steel-tipped arrows.
Well the War Doctor was prepared to just straight up ram daleks with the TARDIS and in the novels featuring him used it as a projectile weapon against starships too. He'd probably just slam Viserion with the TARDIS travelling at mach 4 and call it good.
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Re: Game of Thrones season eight force additions (MAJOR SPOILERS).

Post by Themightytom » 2019-05-02 01:42pm

What is dead may never die : p I'd have Spike turn the Ironborn for an extra dozen vampire surprises. Put them and Buffy in charge of Bran, have Willow and Giles on the wall guarded by Faith and Spike, with Xander and Dawn guarding civillians NOT in the crypt.

They probably wouldn't send the Dothraki out to die, Danaerys wouldn't feel the need to go flaming after them, and the plan might actually go as intended.

I think the Doctor could set up a forcefield to protect winterfell or gimmick some kind of Zombie stopper but the world's are incompatible I think.

The Fellowship would bring better leadership, they wouldn't waste the Dothraki, they probably could have used the unsullied a lot better, and I think Legolas could probably snipe the night King, but I don't think they would meet the goals above. I definitely don't think Alexander would, I'm not that familiar with Dresden, but what I have seen suggests he might be Overkill.

There's a lot of options here, were Goku and the Jedi too busy for this?

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Re: Game of Thrones season eight force additions (MAJOR SPOILERS).

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-05-02 05:38pm

NecronLord wrote:
2019-05-02 12:31pm
Gandalf might be able to enhance the fire defences in various ways. Legolas could be posted overlooking the godswood with obsidian arrows, to make the ambush more effective.

Experience in fighting against the undead, albeit much of it indirect except for the hobbits will make them wary of the crypts. The hobbits definately, and Gandalf probably know about how the Witch King of Angmar sent spirits to raise the dead kings of Arnor as barrow wights, as the hobbits were imprisoned by one in the books, in the more exiting part of the Tom Bombadil chapters. When they hear that the enemy is raising wights, this is what they'll think of, and that will ensure that the crypts are not used as a refuge, or if they are, the bodies of the dead are made non-useful.

Failure in goal 1; success in goal 2, they'll not hold the wall any better but might keep civilians from being slaughtered.
Sounds about right, although Aragorn, Gandalf, and Legolas at least are all potentially capable of a Night King kill, if they are suitably armed and catch him on the ground.
Experienced undead-fighters, definately will think the same, if in less specific terms, about the Crypts.

Success in saving the civilians or at least reducing their deaths.
Buffy is also a possible Night King killer, as is Faith.

The big question is how much Willow can do to counter the Night King's magic.
I know nothing of this franchise alas.
Oh man, you really need to read Dresden Files. If you haven't got the time to read the books, might I recommend the audio books, which are excellently narrated/acted by James Marsters (Spike from Buffy)?
Hypothetically it would be easy enough to evacuate all the civilians to the Summer Isles. Also could use the TARDIS and take Bran to have a chat with the Night's King outside the castle and prevent the attack entirely. Hell, she could just take Bran up to Hardhome or somewhere and make the Night King have to turn around to fulfil his goals.
Potentially, though I feel like this is a case where talking won't resolve it. She could probably bait him to a more advantageous location, but that runs the risk of him deciding to finish off Winterfell first before going after Bran.
Protecting civilians is definately something the Doctor can do, if she'll actually use the TARDIS as a lifeboat, which isn't normally something she/he does.
Odd that she doesn't, really, though she has on occassion. Waters of Mars comes immediately to mind, though that of course turned out very badly.

I'd speculate that she holds off partly out of fear of what the TARDIS could do if the wrong person got access to it, especially since there are plenty of stealth/infiltration villains in Who.
Well Alexander is a tactical genius, and given time, it would be nice to see the Unsullied using obsidian tipped sariassas, his contribution would be positive, but I don't know that he could actually do much about the dragon problem, although he's likely smarter than any of us and might reasonably be able to think of some way to lure Viserion into a disadvantageous engagement with Drogon and Rhaegal and allow him to be destroyed. He is noted as a cavalry commander, and the principles might be similar enough.
Yup, I think he'd make better use of any units he was given authority over. The essence of Macedonian tactics from what I understand (and any historians on the board feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) was to use the phalanx to pin down the enemy and then hit them with the cavalry charge. NOT charge the cavalry in first to get slaughtered, leaving the pikes unsupported. :wink:

Its mostly a question of how much Jon and Danny are willing to listen to his recommendations.
Well the War Doctor was prepared to just straight up ram daleks with the TARDIS and in the novels featuring him used it as a projectile weapon against starships too. He'd probably just slam Viserion with the TARDIS travelling at mach 4 and call it good.
:D
Themightytom wrote:
2019-05-02 01:42pm
What is dead may never die : p I'd have Spike turn the Ironborn for an extra dozen vampire surprises. Put them and Buffy in charge of Bran, have Willow and Giles on the wall guarded by Faith and Spike, with Xander and Dawn guarding civillians NOT in the crypt.
That's actually fairly brilliant (dark as hell, but brilliant), although since this is ensouled Spike, he probably wouldn't do it. Well, maybe to save the world, if Buffy ordered it, but I doubt she would, and the other Scoobies would probably mutiny if she did.
They probably wouldn't send the Dothraki out to die, Danaerys wouldn't feel the need to go flaming after them, and the plan might actually go as intended.
This assumes Buffy is given command authority overriding Danny's and Jon's, which seems... unlikely. And frankly, tactics involving more than a few fighters are not Buffy's forte.

Also, the Night King tends to lead from the rear, and didn't come for Bran until his defenses were all overwhelmed. I suspect it would take Danny and Jon flying out to bait him into showing his face (since he's the only one powerful enough to counter them).
I think the Doctor could set up a forcefield to protect winterfell or gimmick some kind of Zombie stopper but the world's are incompatible I think.
Disagree. Who has magic all the time- they just slap some scientific-sounding technobabble onto it and call it something else. Who is versatile enough to be compatible with almost any setting. Its a crossover fic gold mine for that reason.
The Fellowship would bring better leadership, they wouldn't waste the Dothraki, they probably could have used the unsullied a lot better, and I think Legolas could probably snipe the night King, but I don't think they would meet the goals above. I definitely don't think Alexander would, I'm not that familiar with Dresden, but what I have seen suggests he might be Overkill.

There's a lot of options here, were Goku and the Jedi too busy for this?
Dresden's a good match I think. The Fellowship, yeah, its just adding a few good warriors. Gandalf will be the biggest help.

Alexander would make a lot of difference only if given overall command and prep time, I think.

I thought about adding the Jedi but decided against it (I guess I felt I had enough for one thread), and the Avengers (but I haven't seen Endgame yet and don't want spoilers, so no).
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Re: Game of Thrones season eight force additions (MAJOR SPOILERS).

Post by Tribble » 2019-05-02 06:08pm

For the Fellowship Aragorn has Anduril, Gandalf has Glamdring, Frodo has Sting, and IIRC the other Hobbits have daggers with special enchantments that are capable of killing the Witch King. The first three should be capable of killing the Night King, while the others may be able to as well if the enchantments on the daggers work on him.
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Re: Game of Thrones season eight force additions (MAJOR SPOILERS).

Post by FaxModem1 » 2019-05-02 07:39pm

Gandalf can use the cantrip 'Light' on objects, as he did with a rock in Moria, thereby giving the army of the living better views of what's going on. That alone will help out a lot. (Or at least help out the audience)
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Re: Game of Thrones season eight force additions (MAJOR SPOILERS).

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-05-03 02:01am

FaxModem1 wrote:
2019-05-02 07:39pm
Gandalf can use the cantrip 'Light' on objects, as he did with a rock in Moria, thereby giving the army of the living better views of what's going on. That alone will help out a lot. (Or at least help out the audience)
Its a shame that the North isn't separated from the rest of Westeros by a chasm spanned by a single, easily-breakable bridge. :D If it was, this would be right up old Mithrandir's ally.
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Re: Game of Thrones season eight force additions (MAJOR SPOILERS).

Post by FaxModem1 » 2019-05-03 02:52am

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-05-03 02:01am
FaxModem1 wrote:
2019-05-02 07:39pm
Gandalf can use the cantrip 'Light' on objects, as he did with a rock in Moria, thereby giving the army of the living better views of what's going on. That alone will help out a lot. (Or at least help out the audience)
Its a shame that the North isn't separated from the rest of Westeros by a chasm spanned by a single, easily-breakable bridge. :D If it was, this would be right up old Mithrandir's ally.
Well, if he's up to Saruman's level, he can cast Fireball and light the trenches without the need of a child killer. Also, he won't need an armed escort to do so as he can do so from a distance.

EDIT: Depending on his spellslots of the day, of course, and all available dice rolls. :wink:
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Re: Game of Thrones season eight force additions (MAJOR SPOILERS).

Post by streetad » 2019-05-03 12:27pm

Gandalf is extremely difficult to put into other scenarios, given that he is hinted at having enormous demigod tier power but choosing not to/being forbidden from using them, preferring to work though and inspire others. In Middle-Earth, he is working within limits put upon him by the gods of that setting.

In this scenario you would have to assume similar limitations in order to have any data to work with regarding what he's capable of.

And then there's always the chance that backed into a corner and out of options, he decides to use EVERY last tool at his disposal. Including the one on a chain around Frodo's neck. Dropping the One Ring into the political clusterfuck that is Westeros is hardly better than the NK.

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Re: Game of Thrones season eight force additions (MAJOR SPOILERS).

Post by Solauren » 2019-05-03 05:16pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-05-02 12:02am
That could work, if you also anticipate the risk of the dead in the crypts being raised.
Well, I was going with the Defenders information about the attackers capabilities. Realistically, they had no idea the range for the Night Kings "Raise Nation" power (Name taken from a '10th level Wizard Spell' from the Dark Sun Campaign setting, for irony sake) or it's limitations. I do agree, however, that "not knowing the range of it, assume you're at risk of it" is a good idea.

So give everyone in the crypts dragonglass daggers and spears and say 'if the Crypts start moving, you start stabbing'

And if they had the time, go in, and put dragonglass shards into each dead body. That might prevent reanimation.
The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-05-02 12:02am
I probably wouldn't use the Dothraki at all, though. Horses seem like a really bad thing to send against undead.
I had them attacking after the dragon strafing for that reason. Jon and Daeny would have annhilated a lot of the undead, and the Dothraki can run 'clean up' while still getting to fight. That would probably prevent a lot of Dothraki/Everyone Else resentment.
The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-05-02 12:02am
I think Alexander could make good use of the Unsullied- pike phalanxes being a major part of the Macedonian military. Although obviously the tactics would be somewhat different.
Oh, no doubt. Alexander (and his father before him) put a lot of effort into developing tactics for their Phalanx's to use in anticipation for another war against the Persion Empire. In fact, their tactics were so effective, they became the standard for centuries afterwards.
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Re: Game of Thrones season eight force additions (MAJOR SPOILERS).

Post by Solauren » 2019-05-03 05:19pm

streetad wrote:
2019-05-03 12:27pm
And then there's always the chance that backed into a corner and out of options, he decides to use EVERY last tool at his disposal. Including the one on a chain around Frodo's neck. Dropping the One Ring into the political clusterfuck that is Westeros is hardly better than the NK.
For some reason, I want to give the One Ring to the Night King, with a compulsion to put it on, just to watch what happens.
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Re: Game of Thrones season eight force additions (MAJOR SPOILERS).

Post by SpottedKitty » 2019-05-03 08:49pm

Solauren wrote:
2019-05-03 05:19pm
For some reason, I want to give the One Ring to the Night King, with a compulsion to put it on, just to watch what happens.
I think I'd prefer to "watch what happens" from orbit, just in case a Thor strike on top of his pointy little head seems indicated. I would have suggested a small nuke (just to be sure), but that might have damaged nearby fragile objects (e.g. Winterfell). :twisted:
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Re: Game of Thrones season eight force additions (MAJOR SPOILERS).

Post by Solauren » 2019-05-03 10:38pm

SpottedKitty wrote:
2019-05-03 08:49pm
Solauren wrote:
2019-05-03 05:19pm
For some reason, I want to give the One Ring to the Night King, with a compulsion to put it on, just to watch what happens.
I think I'd prefer to "watch what happens" from orbit, just in case a Thor strike on top of his pointy little head seems indicated. I would have suggested a small nuke (just to be sure), but that might have damaged nearby fragile objects (e.g. Winterfell). :twisted:
I was thinking from another dimension, and talking to some heavy magical hitters for assistance, but to each their own.
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Re: Game of Thrones season eight force additions (MAJOR SPOILERS).

Post by Themightytom » 2019-05-05 01:38pm

I'm pretty sure I actually saw a fanfic where someone had a federation scout ship of some kind in Westeros, and there is Harry Potter one as well, I don't know about Lord of the Rings or Buffy though.

I think a lot of the limitations to this scenario come from a lack of pre-emptive action. Ice Javelins notwithstanding, Danaerys could have been harassing the forces of the dead as they marched past the wall, this would also have forced the Night King to fight them with his dragon. I'd thought the pits they were digging would have inflicted more casualties but ultimately I think both the fellowship and certainly the Scoobies would have encouraged actions to cause more attrition.

I take the point about Doctor Who and Magic, but I was arguing that Doctor Who would redefine what we were seeing as super advanced science, rather than magic, undermining a lot of the foundational universe that George R.R. Martin created, with the Lord of Light, the Drowned God, The Many Faced God, etc.

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Re: Game of Thrones season eight force additions (MAJOR SPOILERS).

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-05-05 02:15pm

Themightytom wrote:
2019-05-05 01:38pm
I'm pretty sure I actually saw a fanfic where someone had a federation scout ship of some kind in Westeros, and there is Harry Potter one as well, I don't know about Lord of the Rings or Buffy though.
There are a lot of Potter/GoT crossovers. Mostly shitty Harry in name only male power fantasies, from what I've seen (actually, that description goes for about half of all Potter fic these days that isn't Harry/Draco or Hermione/Draco shipping). :(

I blame Methods of Rationality. Probably more than it deserves, but it was so damn big in the day, and more superficially polished (and aggressively promoted by its author) than a lot of fanfics, that I think a lot of people just followed its shitty, overrated lead.

I had an idea a while back for a story where Hogwarts/Hogsmede gets transplanted into the North around the start of Robert's Rebellion. God knows if I'll ever have time to write it, though.
I think a lot of the limitations to this scenario come from a lack of pre-emptive action. Ice Javelins notwithstanding, Danaerys could have been harassing the forces of the dead as they marched past the wall, this would also have forced the Night King to fight them with his dragon. I'd thought the pits they were digging would have inflicted more casualties but ultimately I think both the fellowship and certainly the Scoobies would have encouraged actions to cause more attrition.
Any harassing force hitting that army is being suicided (and added to the army of the dead) exception maybe the dragons. The danger there is that they'll just get shot down with ice spears, as you noted. It seems to me unwise to use and risk your most powerful unit for mere harassment tactics. Using Bran as bait actually makes sense, because the idea was to draw the Night King out and then get the drop on him (at least that was my impression), as opposed to him getting the drop on them. Didn't really work out that way, but its not a bad concept, and is probably the best use of the dragons.

Harassing tactics are more viable with some of the additions in this scenario, particularly team Dresden. Molly's stealth, and Dresden's ability to open Ways plus mass fire magic, means whittling down the Walkers with hit and runs is perfectly viable for them, and won't require risking a dragon.
I take the point about Doctor Who and Magic, but I was arguing that Doctor Who would redefine what we were seeing as super advanced science, rather than magic, undermining a lot of the foundational universe that George R.R. Martin created, with the Lord of Light, the Drowned God, The Many Faced God, etc.
If you tried to fit Thrones into Who's usual style, yes, a lot of the magic would get redefined as advanced tech, psychics, etc.

Malevolent self-styled gods are nothing new for Who, though. At all. There are Lovecraftian elements in Who at least as much as GoT. Hell, the Tenth Doctor basically fought the Devil once.
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Re: Game of Thrones season eight force additions (MAJOR SPOILERS).

Post by NecronLord » 2019-05-05 02:21pm

Dr Who's record with magic is very dubious, and there have been many episodes where magic is just real; including the Shakekspeare episode (a mis-step IMO to even think of depicting 'real' witches during the witch-hunting craze of the early modern period) a few years back. That's not counting the amount of stuff that's passed away as 'psychic' and so forth. But it really depends on writer.
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