Buffy/Doctor Who villain swap.

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Buffy/Doctor Who villain swap.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-04-26 10:59pm

I'm sure this has been done before, somewhere, but...

Due to a bungled spell, the primary villains of Doctor Who and Buffy the Vampire Slayer switch places. The Saxton Master as of the start of season three is transplanted to the subterranean ruins of a church in Sunnydale, right over the Hellmouth, while the vampire cult leader known as the Master finds himself in Downing Street, London, shortly before his intended Harvest. Assume for the purposes of this scenario that Who and Buffy take place in the same universe. We will assume that the the vampire has access to the stolen TARDIS, but he lacks the know-how to operate it or modify it or bring the Toclafane into our time. Saxton Master takes his laser screwdriver with him.

What happens to Britain when the secretly insane Time Lord Prime Minister is replaced with a vampire? And how does Sunnydale fair with said renegade Time Lord running around?
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Re: Buffy/Doctor Who villain swap.

Post by FaxModem1 » 2019-04-26 11:08pm

Do the narrative conventions of both shows swap as well? Otherwise I see Buffy having a hard time trying to outtalk all of the Doctor's villains when her first action is going to be to just straight up stab them, which will be tough against something like the Master, and the Doctor is going to have a tough time with villains that straight up kill at the drop of a hat rather than tie him up and explain the whole plot Bond villain style.
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Re: Buffy/Doctor Who villain swap.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-04-26 11:17pm

FaxModem1 wrote:
2019-04-26 11:08pm
Do the narrative conventions of both shows swap as well? Otherwise I see Buffy having a hard time trying to outtalk all of the Doctor's villains when her first action is going to be to just straight up stab them, which will be tough against something like the Master, and the Doctor is going to have a tough time with villains that straight up kill at the drop of a hat rather than tie him up and explain the whole plot Bond villain style.
Actually, Buffy straight-up killing the Master might be an option. Oh, it won't stick, he'll regenerate unless you hit him again mid-regeneration or get both his hearts or something, but he's a cocky bastard who likes to talk and play with his victims, and that's a bad move against a Slayer, especially if you don't know she's a Slayer or how strong she is (though if he follows his actions in England, he'll lay low and learn a lot about what's going on and ingratiate himself into the local power structure before making any open moves). I feel like he might give Buffy an opening.

I wonder how open he'd be to using magic as well as technology?

As to the vampire Master vs. the Doctor- he'll play with his victims sometimes too. Really depends on what mood he's in, and how interested he is in the Doctor vs how pissed off by him he is/how much of a threat he thinks he is.

It also depends on how he tries to kill the Doctor. If he uses a neck snap, at worst we get a regeneration early. If he tries to drink his blood- well, I can only imagine Time Lord blood, like Slayer blood, gives a power boost, and that could actually kill the Doctor as well if we go by "Smith and Jones".
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Re: Buffy/Doctor Who villain swap.

Post by FaxModem1 » 2019-04-26 11:45pm

I guess the question is, "Can Saxton-Master catch a crossbow bolt?" If not, Buffy will have to deal with Missy.
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Re: Buffy/Doctor Who villain swap.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-04-27 12:03am

Given some of the reflexes the Doctor has shown, the answer is... probably?
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Re: Buffy/Doctor Who villain swap.

Post by bilateralrope » 2019-04-27 12:33am

How long will Buffy remain nearby after killing the Master ?

Because if she's there long enough, she will see the yellow glowing stuff. Which seems a good reason to stick around longer to figure out what's going on.

Regeneration isn't much of an advantage if the person who killed you stays near your body. Though the whole personality switch might give a chance for the Master to talk his way out of it. Once.

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Re: Buffy/Doctor Who villain swap.

Post by FaxModem1 » 2019-04-27 12:53am

bilateralrope wrote:
2019-04-27 12:33am
How long will Buffy remain nearby after killing the Master ?

Because if she's there long enough, she will see the yellow glowing stuff. Which seems a good reason to stick around longer to figure out what's going on.

Regeneration isn't much of an advantage if the person who killed you stays near your body. Though the whole personality switch might give a chance for the Master to talk his way out of it. Once.
Depends on whether or not Buffy has something else to do. As we've seen throughout her series, she sometimes lacks attention to detail, and leaves when she thinks she's done enough. One key example is just leaving after dusting Dracula twice, and considering that 'job done' as opposed to doing anything with the remains. We also saw at the beginning of season 4 how Buffy, if she's in a gossipy mood, might not even notice vampires rising from their graves, thereby being free to kill innocent people.

It kind of sucks that Sunnydale relies on a preoccupied teenager, but that's what they have. This won't be that different for the Master though, as the Doctor has the same problem of leaving when the problem is no longer interesting for him.
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Re: Buffy/Doctor Who villain swap.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-04-27 12:57am

FaxModem1 wrote:
2019-04-27 12:53am
bilateralrope wrote:
2019-04-27 12:33am
How long will Buffy remain nearby after killing the Master ?

Because if she's there long enough, she will see the yellow glowing stuff. Which seems a good reason to stick around longer to figure out what's going on.

Regeneration isn't much of an advantage if the person who killed you stays near your body. Though the whole personality switch might give a chance for the Master to talk his way out of it. Once.
Depends on whether or not Buffy has something else to do. As we've seen throughout her series, she sometimes lacks attention to detail, and leaves when she thinks she's done enough. One key example is just leaving after dusting Dracula twice, and considering that 'job done' as opposed to doing anything with the remains. We also saw at the beginning of season 4 how Buffy, if she's in a gossipy mood, might not even notice vampires rising from their graves, thereby being free to kill innocent people.

It kind of sucks that Sunnydale relies on a preoccupied teenager, but that's what they have. This won't be that different for the Master though, as the Doctor has the same problem of leaving when the problem is no longer interesting for him.
Indeed. Probably the worst example for Buffy is just leaving the church in "What's My Line" Part II without stopping to confirm that Spike and Dru were killed by falling debris (because blunt trauma is such an effective way to kill vampires). There's a thin excuse that the church was burning, but still... stick around to make sure that nobody undead makes it out.
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Re: Buffy/Doctor Who villain swap.

Post by NecronLord » 2019-04-27 04:36am

For what it's worth there's an extensive lore in both TV and novel Dr Who stuff on the Time Lords' hostility to Vampires. I'd remembered Vampire Science establishing that Time Lord blood is toxic to vampires but it's actually a traditional remedy.
He drinks large quantities of "Vamp-Away" (which contains silver nitrate and is toxic to humans), so that when Slake and his fellows feed on his blood it kills them: it also kills Joanna Harris, but he manages to resuscitate her, bringing her back to life properly, as a human and breaking the psychic link between them.
Vampire Science

I imagine the Doctor would try this, and die, as buffy vampires aren't vulnerable to silver.

I see Saxton shrugging and launching another world conquest plan, I can't see the Scooby gang getting to or defeating the Prime Minister of Great Britain if he gets back into that position.
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Re: Buffy/Doctor Who villain swap.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-04-27 04:38am

NecronLord wrote:
2019-04-27 04:36am
For what it's worth there's an extensive lore in both TV and novel Dr Who stuff on the Time Lords' hostility to Vampires. I'd remembered Vampire Science establishing that Time Lord blood is toxic to vampires but it's actually a traditional remedy.
He drinks large quantities of "Vamp-Away" (which contains silver nitrate and is toxic to humans), so that when Slake and his fellows feed on his blood it kills them: it also kills Joanna Harris, but he manages to resuscitate her, bringing her back to life properly, as a human and breaking the psychic link between them.
I imagine the Doctor would try this, and die, as buffy vampires aren't vulnerable to silver.

I see Saxton shrugging and launching another world conquest plan, I can't see the Scooby gang getting to or defeating the Prime Minister of Great Britain if he gets back into that position.
No, certainly not.

Watcher's Council might act against him though, if Giles files a report. Either by assassin team or trying to get him out of office via spell or even political maneuvering (they're supposed to be more effective as beurocrats than in combat, and Giles confirms they at least have enough clout to get him easily deported in season five).
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Re: Buffy/Doctor Who villain swap.

Post by Majin Gojira » 2019-04-27 02:19pm

Saxton? He is now a plug between dimension, trapped in a church and thus really can't do much. Remember, thar church is where the Master was stuck, and even if he escapes, as long as he is alive, it will unleash The Old Ones.

Saxton is insane, but not that crazy... I think.

The Vampire... Goes underground and begins to find people to sire into new Vamps.

It isn't his power or strength that makes him a threat here, but his fecundity as a vamp.

That and he seeks
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Re: Buffy/Doctor Who villain swap.

Post by NecronLord » 2019-04-28 03:41pm

Unleashing monsters without understanding the consequences is a thing that Dr Who Master/Saxton has done before so I'm not sure he would stay there.
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Re: Buffy/Doctor Who villain swap.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-04-29 03:02pm

Oh yeah, Saxon would absolutely do that. He's not going to contently stay trapped in the Hellmouth forever for the sake of the world. He's a veteran of the Time War, when entire realities were consumed and remade. Humans in general are nothing to him. He was willing to blow up the world out of spite when the Doctor beat him. The only one he maybe cares about a little is the Doctor, who isn't here.

He gets out if he can, and then he gets off the planet, and leaves the Earth to an eternity of demonic horror.

The question is, could he get out? The laser screwdriver can manipulate someone's age, so maybe it could pull some time technobabble to move out of the bubble he's trapped in plugging the Hellmouth? Or maybe he could just brute force it. The Master was strong enough after drinking Slayer blood. Not sure how Time Lord strength compares to elder vampire strength, but its possible he could just walk out.

If not, he's going to need minions to get him new sources of power, so he can either give himself a power-up or technobabble a way out. That means getting some of the Sunnydale underworld to run errands for him. This shouldn't be too hard, given his power and his canon hypnotic abilities (something his counterpart in this scenario shares). I guess it depends partly on how loyal the Order of Aurelias really is to its Master- but Darla at least left for a while for Angelus, so... hmm, Saxton Master with Darla as his Right-hand woman (we know that he likes blonds, if his wife in season three is any indication)? That could be interesting.

The Master, meanwhile, probably celebrates being free of the Hellmouth, before heading back to Sunnydale to try to open the Hellmouth again. Possibly raising new minions along the way. He can't play PM, and probably wouldn't be interested in doing so. The sudden disappearance of the PM however will lead to investigation, which might get Torchwood/UNIT on the trail of both Masters, in addition to the Doctor/Martha/Captain Jack.

If the Master makes it back to Sunnydale, and Saxon is still there, he and Saxon fight for control of the town. My money is on Saxon in that match. All he needs is one shot with his laser screwdriver. The Master would have to get the drop on him, in which case it comes down to what method he uses to kill him- drain him and he dies, neck-snap him or use some other physical trauma and he regenerates.

It would be funny if they hypno-dueled each other to see who could control the other's mind, though. :)
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Re: Buffy/Doctor Who villain swap.

Post by Tribble » 2019-04-29 03:27pm

I wonder how Rassilion and the Time War Council would react to this sudden turn of events? They’re bound to notice such a potentially massive change to the time line, especially as the Master is a key part of their plans.

What would destroy Earth quicker, the Hellmouth opening or the Time Lords trying to kick off the Ultimate Sanction early?
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Re: Buffy/Doctor Who villain swap.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-04-29 03:39pm

Tribble wrote:
2019-04-29 03:27pm
I wonder how Rassilion and the Time War Council would react to this sudden turn of events? They’re bound to notice such a potentially massive change to the time line, especially as the Master is a key part of their plans.

What would destroy Earth quicker, the Hellmouth opening or the Time Lords trying to kick off the Ultimate Sanction early?
I don't know that they could do it early. I'll have to go back and rewatch End of Time (or at least the relevant scenes) to see what specific sequence of events lead to that moment.

But yeah, its a valid question- with time travelers, you have to take into account the possibility that changes at one point in the timeline will be countered by changes in the future, by someone looking back into the past or forward into the future, to counter your changes.
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Re: Buffy/Doctor Who villain swap.

Post by Tribble » 2019-04-29 04:10pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-04-29 03:39pm
Tribble wrote:
2019-04-29 03:27pm
I wonder how Rassilion and the Time War Council would react to this sudden turn of events? They’re bound to notice such a potentially massive change to the time line, especially as the Master is a key part of their plans.

What would destroy Earth quicker, the Hellmouth opening or the Time Lords trying to kick off the Ultimate Sanction early?
I don't know that they could do it early. I'll have to go back and rewatch End of Time (or at least the relevant scenes) to see what specific sequence of events lead to that moment.

But yeah, its a valid question- with time travelers, you have to take into account the possibility that changes at one point in the timeline will be countered by changes in the future, by someone looking back into the past or forward into the future, to counter your changes.
Head canon for this scenario - the Hellmouth is in fact a portal which leads into the final days of the Time War (which the Doctor describes as a literal hell so it fits) :P
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Re: Buffy/Doctor Who villain swap.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-04-29 04:16pm

Tribble wrote:
2019-04-29 04:10pm
The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-04-29 03:39pm
Tribble wrote:
2019-04-29 03:27pm
I wonder how Rassilion and the Time War Council would react to this sudden turn of events? They’re bound to notice such a potentially massive change to the time line, especially as the Master is a key part of their plans.

What would destroy Earth quicker, the Hellmouth opening or the Time Lords trying to kick off the Ultimate Sanction early?
I don't know that they could do it early. I'll have to go back and rewatch End of Time (or at least the relevant scenes) to see what specific sequence of events lead to that moment.

But yeah, its a valid question- with time travelers, you have to take into account the possibility that changes at one point in the timeline will be countered by changes in the future, by someone looking back into the past or forward into the future, to counter your changes.
Head canon for this scenario - the Hellmouth is in fact a portal which leads into the final days of the Time War (which the Doctor describes as a literal hell so it fits) :P
Mind if I steal that for a crossover sometime? :D
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Re: Buffy/Doctor Who villain swap.

Post by Tribble » 2019-04-29 04:41pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-04-29 04:16pm
Tribble wrote:
2019-04-29 04:10pm
The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-04-29 03:39pm


I don't know that they could do it early. I'll have to go back and rewatch End of Time (or at least the relevant scenes) to see what specific sequence of events lead to that moment.

But yeah, its a valid question- with time travelers, you have to take into account the possibility that changes at one point in the timeline will be countered by changes in the future, by someone looking back into the past or forward into the future, to counter your changes.
Head canon for this scenario - the Hellmouth is in fact a portal which leads into the final days of the Time War (which the Doctor describes as a literal hell so it fits) :P
Mind if I steal that for a crossover sometime? :D
No problems (still working on the Bond / Potter crossover?) :D

Funnily enough Buffyverse could fit pretty easily into Dr Who canon - the Doctor has faced plenty of gods and Demons over the years (including vampires IIRC). You could even chalk up the Doctor’s non involvement in the events of the Buffy verse as being too busy fighting the Time War, so he didn’t happen to pay all that much attention to 1990s / early 2000s Earth.
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Re: Buffy/Doctor Who villain swap.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-04-29 04:49pm

Tribble wrote:
2019-04-29 04:41pm
The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-04-29 04:16pm
Tribble wrote:
2019-04-29 04:10pm


Head canon for this scenario - the Hellmouth is in fact a portal which leads into the final days of the Time War (which the Doctor describes as a literal hell so it fits) :P
Mind if I steal that for a crossover sometime? :D
No problems (still working on the Bond / Potter crossover?) :D
Heh.

I know I've been a really shitty updater for my fics, mostly because I kind of got a life last fall, and it turns out me and Low Energy Jeb share something in common. :D But I intend to continue every one of them when I can, even if its like an update a year.
Funnily enough Buffyverse could fit pretty easily into Dr Who canon - the Doctor has faced plenty of gods and Demons over the years (including vampires IIRC). You could even chalk up the Doctor’s non involvement in the events of the Buffy verse as being too busy fighting the Time War, so he didn’t happen to pay all that much attention to 1990s / early 2000s Earth.
Oh yeah, Buffy and Who are pretty easy to cross.

Actually, Who is just so big, and has so much variety in terms of stories and settings and creatures over its existence, that you can probably cross almost anything with Who without too much trouble. I mean, the show's unofficial slogan pretty much is "All of time and space". I crossed Dresden Files with Who, and aside from some continuity errors that were entirely my fault, it worked just fine (or so I thought, at least).
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Re: Buffy/Doctor Who villain swap.

Post by Majin Gojira » 2019-04-30 05:37pm

I'm sorry, but I need to inform you:

THE 10TH DOCTOR AND ROSE MAKE A WORDLES CAMEO IN A BUFFY SEASON 8 COMIC!

Buffy Season 8 #6 if you want to look it up.

Almost as fun as finding the TARDIS in the debris field of a battle between Godzilla, Mechagodzilla, and Hedorah.
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Re: Buffy/Doctor Who villain swap.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-05-01 09:41pm

I did hear of that.

Not sure if it qualifies as canon, but IIRC Who's canon policy is pretty much "its canon if you want it to be".
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Re: Buffy/Doctor Who villain swap.

Post by NecronLord » 2019-05-02 09:44am

Tribble wrote:
2019-04-29 03:27pm
I wonder how Rassilion and the Time War Council would react to this sudden turn of events? They’re bound to notice such a potentially massive change to the time line, especially as the Master is a key part of their plans.

What would destroy Earth quicker, the Hellmouth opening or the Time Lords trying to kick off the Ultimate Sanction early?
Rassilon getting involved in anything Vampiric would be bad. Rassilon made his original reputation among the Time Lords by destroying the Great Vampires, and even in the Doctor's day all TARDISes contained a 'Directive of Rassilon' that anyone who found the surviving vampires...
State of Decay (TV) wrote:"Hence it is the Directive of Rassilon that any Time Lord who comes upon this enemy of our people and of all living things, shall use all his efforts to destroy him, even at the cost of his own life."
From Vampire Science.
Vampire Science (Book) wrote:'And then there are my people. If I let them know you're here, not only will you never have existed, but probably neither will a large chunk of the population of San Francisco.' He looked at her with ever-so-sincere eyes. 'When it comes to dealing with the spawn of the Great Vampires they like to err on the side of thoroughness.'
Probably they'd do something atrocilicious, it's the Time Lord stock in trade.
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Re: Buffy/Doctor Who villain swap.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-05-02 10:00am

Honestly, at this point in the timeline I think that Rassilon finding out about vampires would be kind of a moot point. He already intended to destroy the entire universe so he and his fellow Time Lords could ascend.
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NecronLord
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Re: Buffy/Doctor Who villain swap.

Post by NecronLord » 2019-05-02 10:01am

I wouldn't underestimate his spite, though. He did come out to shoot Capaldi in person that one time. But yeah, he has other things to do, but that was a trippy and faintly silly storyline.
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