Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

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Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by Elheru Aran » 2019-05-20 03:39pm

Galvatron wrote:
2019-05-20 02:35pm
It was always my understanding that winter didn't really affect southern Westeros much.
Only when you get as far down as Dorne. It's something along the lines of:

--The North: Basically western Russia, with the land beyond the Wall being Siberia.

--The Vale and the Riverlands: Eastern Europe

--Iron Islands: Think wet, stony, and cold, like the Nordic or Scottish coast.

--The main part of the Westeros continent: ranges from 'damn cold but not impossible' on down to 'pretty mild' in the Reach, which is basically the last part of the Seven Kingdoms you pass through before you reach Dorne.

Notably, IIRC the Reach, the Tyrell's land, is considered something of a bread-basket for much of Westeros, which makes sense if winters are relatively mild there and allow perhaps an extra growing season or two. Lands below the North will suffer in proportion to their proximity to the Wall. The Vale of Arryn, for example, given that it's mostly all mountains almost certainly has severe issues with food supply in winter and is heavily dependent upon trade between the seasons to survive.
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Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by Elfdart » 2019-05-20 03:53pm

Vympel wrote:
2019-05-20 11:28am
Elfdart wrote:
2019-05-20 11:08am
I take it the guy sitting between Sam and Edmure was Howland Reed? Too bad they didn't bring back Meera for this scene.
Could've been anyone really. I assumed all the unnamed people were the bannermen of the person sitting next to them, give or take.
He was wearing the same mantle/collar thing Reed was wearing when he and Ned killed Sir Dane, but yeah it could be anyone. I did like how the decent nobles (Sansa, Royce, Edmure and Maybe Howland Reed) were the first ones to scoff at Sam for suggesting democracy.
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Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by Vendetta » 2019-05-20 04:39pm

Galvatron wrote:
2019-05-20 02:35pm
It was always my understanding that winter didn't really affect southern Westeros much.
Yeah, that's how it normally goes.

The dramatic point of the Others in the book is that this is not going to be one of those winters. They're on the move, and they're bringing Winter with them.

The house words of the Starks, Winter is Coming, are a reminder to the southern lords that all their "summer problems" can be swept away by things that can't be politicked away. All the players in the Game of Thrones are doing it in the shadow of a looming outside context problem they don't really believe in.

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Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by Nari » 2019-05-20 04:58pm

Vendetta wrote:
2019-05-20 02:11pm
Nari wrote:
2019-05-20 01:51pm
9. What season is it again? Is Winter staying or has it already gone? No-one talked about this, despite everyone talking about this in S1!
The dramatic personification of Winter got stabbed three episodes ago. It is too late to pretend that Winter has any dramatic meaning to the story.
Galvatron wrote:
2019-05-20 02:35pm
It was always my understanding that winter didn't really affect southern Westeros much.
I mean, other than it was snowing when Jaime head off on horseback at the end of S7, and there was enough snow to bury a dragon (but oddly, still walk around) in S8.6. It was, to me, another rule of cool moment rather than a thought out narrative.

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Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by Elheru Aran » 2019-05-20 05:33pm

So there was a whole theory that magic was returning to Westeros or whatever, with the advent of the Dragons and the Walkers and all that.

Is that out the window, then? Or simply not a thing anymore?
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Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by Imperial Overlord » 2019-05-20 06:27pm

Elheru Aran wrote:
2019-05-20 05:33pm
So there was a whole theory that magic was returning to Westeros or whatever, with the advent of the Dragons and the Walkers and all that.

Is that out the window, then? Or simply not a thing anymore?
The show didn't really do anything with it, but its more important in the books. There's a few more mentions in the books and a maester related subplot going around it that the show doesn't have.
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Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-05-20 06:57pm

The worrying thing about the backlash against the current season, however warranted some of it may be, is that the consistent takeaway seems to be "its bad because it moved past the books". So what's ultimately happening is that its affirming the "WAAAAHHHH, they changed it so its RUIIIINED!!!" mentality in fandom, the idea that the highest crime you can commit is to ever diverge from the source material or what "fans expect"- which really shouldn't be the lesson at all. It wasn't bad because it was different from the books which haven't been written yet (and if you want to blame someone for that, blame George RR Martin). It was bad because it did last minute about-faces on multiple character arcs, done in a way that felt rushed and contrived to a lot of people, and was arguably sexist, or at least validating the conclusions of sexists.
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Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by Solauren » 2019-05-20 06:57pm

Something to point out about 'Bran the Broken' as King: we have no DIRECT evidence that Bran can see the future.

That being said, having the entire sum of history at his disposal, that kind of knowledge would make seem like it.
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Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by Elfdart » 2019-05-20 11:21pm

Galvatron wrote:
2019-05-20 02:35pm
It was always my understanding that winter didn't really affect southern Westeros much.
The Riverlands got hit pretty hard -that's where the farmers were found frozen/starved to death by the Brotherhood.
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Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by wautd » 2019-05-21 03:05am

Just saw the finale. I think it was fine. Offcourse it gets a lot of hatred due to many people having unreasonable expectations, but honestly, in such a short season this was the best I could expect

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Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by wautd » 2019-05-21 03:32am

FaxModem1 wrote:
2019-05-20 05:30am

So, the North is now an independent kingdom, I hope they have food leftover for the winter they're facing, because they just made themselves independent of their main supplier of food during the winter months. Norxit will just have interesting consequences for Sansa. Same with the Wildlings in the true North. I hope Jon Snow enjoys cannibalism. At least Sansa knew to pack away a lot of food for winter, well, before the armies of t
Maybe the unnaturally cold winters will be more mild from now on, now the Night King is dead? That was my idea anyway when they focused on a plant sprouting north of the wall. It looked like things might be thawing/spring is coming to the north

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Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by Vympel » 2019-05-21 07:43am

Missed this:
FaxModem1 wrote:
2019-05-20 05:30am
So, the North is now an independent kingdom, I hope they have food leftover for the winter they're facing, because they just made themselves independent of their main supplier of food during the winter months. Norxit will just have interesting consequences for Sansa. Same with the Wildlings in the true North. I hope Jon Snow enjoys cannibalism. At least Sansa knew to pack away a lot of food for winter, well, before the armies of t
No one ever said that the Iron Throne supplies the north with food during the winter months. That was never a thing AFAIK. The North was an independent kingdom for thousands of years without relying on elsewhere for food.
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Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by Ralin » 2019-05-21 07:59am

Vympel wrote:
2019-05-21 07:43am
No one ever said that the Iron Throne supplies the north with food during the winter months. That was never a thing AFAIK. The North was an independent kingdom for thousands of years without relying on elsewhere for food.
Seems like a reasonable assumption though. No reason to think they weren't importing food during the time they were independent.

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Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by Vympel » 2019-05-21 08:20am

Ralin wrote:
2019-05-21 07:59am
Seems like a reasonable assumption though. No reason to think they weren't importing food during the time they were independent.
Yeah, but in that case there's no reason for such imports to stop. It'd be provided through trade, not charity.
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Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by FaxModem1 » 2019-05-21 08:23am

Vympel wrote:
2019-05-21 07:43am
Missed this:
FaxModem1 wrote:
2019-05-20 05:30am
So, the North is now an independent kingdom, I hope they have food leftover for the winter they're facing, because they just made themselves independent of their main supplier of food during the winter months. Norxit will just have interesting consequences for Sansa. Same with the Wildlings in the true North. I hope Jon Snow enjoys cannibalism. At least Sansa knew to pack away a lot of food for winter, well, before the armies of t
No one ever said that the Iron Throne supplies the north with food during the winter months. That was never a thing AFAIK. The North was an independent kingdom for thousands of years without relying on elsewhere for food.
You missed the part that was cut off, that the food stores they had to last them through winter were gobbled up by the Army of the Living. And their food stores were noted by Sansa as lacking due to lack of donations, and that's because they've had to deal with multiples wars and raids by the Greyjoys and cannibal Wildlings while they're supposed to be harvesting and farming.That's a key part of their situation now that they cut off all relations with the Six Kingdoms.
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Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by Ralin » 2019-05-21 08:36am

Sansa's brother is the king of the Six Kingdoms and his Hand is her ex-husband. I doubt they'll have cut off all relations between the North and Westeros, and at a bare minimum I would expect Bran and Tyrion to not do anything to interfere with the north importing food to avoid starvation.

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Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by Coop D'etat » 2019-05-21 12:19pm

Ralin wrote:
2019-05-21 07:59am
Vympel wrote:
2019-05-21 07:43am
No one ever said that the Iron Throne supplies the north with food during the winter months. That was never a thing AFAIK. The North was an independent kingdom for thousands of years without relying on elsewhere for food.
Seems like a reasonable assumption though. No reason to think they weren't importing food during the time they were independent.
It's not a reasonable assumption though. The geography of the North wouldn't support bulk food transport being a major thing with medieval tech and infrastructure. The bulk of the population is too dispersed and inland. Particularly during winter. The North survives on stores plus hunting. This is a big reason their population density is very low compared to the South.

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Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by TheFeniX » 2019-05-21 12:23pm

Not terrible, but boring. If the series continued, I would actually enjoy the idea of the mostly useless for anything else Three Eyed Raven using the entirety of Westerosi history to setup the endgame of "be on the throne" either as a benevolent ruler or something worse. After-all, Bran is young, he has plenty of time to remove such niceties as "these few will elect a King" or use it to his advantage.
Ralin wrote:
2019-05-21 08:36am
Sansa's brother is the king of the Six Kingdoms and his Hand is her ex-husband. I doubt they'll have cut off all relations between the North and Westeros, and at a bare minimum I would expect Bran and Tyrion to not do anything to interfere with the north importing food to avoid starvation.
The only person on the small council who doesn't "know" (by being physically there) what the North has done for Westeros is possibly Bronn, and there's definitely money to be made selling supplies to the North. Unless Cersei scorched the land, Highgarden should still be producing the most grain. I doubt Bronn gives a shit who is paying for it.

The Lords of the 6 other houses are also pretty stacked with Stark/The North favor.

Sidenote: bet the Iron Bank is fucking pissed about their stupid investments. "Let's back the people WITHOUT dragons!"

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Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by NeoGoomba » 2019-05-21 12:51pm

The Three-Eyed Raven's host can live for, what, centuries? Bran might be steering the ship for a long ass time if left to his own devices.
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Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by Coop D'etat » 2019-05-21 01:16pm

NeoGoomba wrote:
2019-05-21 12:51pm
The Three-Eyed Raven's host can live for, what, centuries? Bran might be steering the ship for a long ass time if left to his own devices.
Can he live that long without being hooked up to a weirwood tree though? I would think those are connected.

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Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by LaCroix » 2019-05-21 01:47pm

FaxModem1 wrote:
2019-05-21 08:23am
You missed the part that was cut off, that the food stores they had to last them through winter were gobbled up by the Army of the Living. And their food stores were noted by Sansa as lacking due to lack of donations, and that's because they've had to deal with multiples wars and raids by the Greyjoys and cannibal Wildlings while they're supposed to be harvesting and farming.That's a key part of their situation now that they cut off all relations with the Six Kingdoms.
On the other hand, a good part of their population is dead, so it might even out with the bit of food that the big army ate for that week or so until the dead arrived...

I like that the end mirrors the prophecy a bit. Danny only briefly touched the Iron Throne, and never sat in it, but turned away from it and joined her husband and son, instead.
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Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by ANGELUS » 2019-05-21 02:23pm

wautd wrote:
2019-05-21 03:32am
Maybe the unnaturally cold winters will be more mild from now on, now the Night King is dead? That was my idea anyway when they focused on a plant sprouting north of the wall. It looked like things might be thawing/spring is coming to the north
That was my impression too. The books do imply that the irregular seasons ar caused by magic of some sort, and so now that the Walkers are gone they are probably going back to the way it should be (at least that's what I got from it). Lets remember last season's scene where the Walkers are created we can see a lot of plants and green everywhere arond them, and then one episode later whe can see exactly the same place covered in ice (the arrow-shaped mountain, as the Hound called it). To me this seems as if the North itself is not naturally cold but rather it is that way due to Walker magic... and now that they are gone it may mean that things will go back to normal.
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Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by Galvatron » 2019-05-21 08:41pm

NeoGoomba wrote:
2019-05-21 12:51pm
The Three-Eyed Raven's host can live for, what, centuries? Bran might be steering the ship for a long ass time if left to his own devices.
The realm should be so lucky. An incorruptible monarch with no spouse or children to fuck things up? I'll take a chill God-Emperor any day.

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Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by Solauren » 2019-05-21 09:03pm

The Iron bank is probably fine with the outcome.

After all, Cersei paid them off with the money looted from High Garden. I doubt they'd lend her money when she just paid them back and about to go to war.

Now, acting as hiring agents for her, for a commission, I can see.

So, the Iron Bank got it's funds, doesn't care about the outcome in Westros, and can now fund start up Merc companies looking to replace the Golden Company.
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Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by Vympel » 2019-05-21 11:40pm

FaxModem1 wrote:
2019-05-21 08:23am
You missed the part that was cut off, that the food stores they had to last them through winter were gobbled up by the Army of the Living. And their food stores were noted by Sansa as lacking due to lack of donations, and that's because they've had to deal with multiples wars and raids by the Greyjoys and cannibal Wildlings while they're supposed to be harvesting and farming.That's a key part of their situation now that they cut off all relations with the Six Kingdoms.
No one said that the AoL gobbled up all their winter stores. It was noted their size made those stores insufficient for lasting through winter, but there's no evidence that the time period they were actually at Winterfell actually ate all the food stored.

Further, the North being independent != cut off all relations with the Six Kingdoms. There's no evidence Sansa will put in such a policy of extreme isolationism, no trade, and autarky.
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