Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

FAN: Discuss various fictional worlds that don't qualify for SF.

Moderator: Steve

Post Reply
User avatar
NeoGoomba
Sith Devotee
Posts: 3240
Joined: 2002-12-22 11:35am
Location: Upstate New York

Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by NeoGoomba » 2019-05-22 08:34am

Galvatron wrote:
2019-05-21 08:41pm
The realm should be so lucky. An incorruptible monarch with no spouse or children to fuck things up? I'll take a chill God-Emperor any day.
We don't know if he's actually incorruptible, or what is final goals are, as he's never stated them. For all we know, he may exist simply to artificially extend the Age of Fire, despite what chaos it wrecks upon all of creation!

Sorry, the news that GRRM is working with FROMSoftware on a new Dark Souls successor has got my mind spinning.
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know...tomorrow."
-Agent Kay

User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 17944
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-05-23 07:53pm

Petition's crossed 1.5 million. It should be noted, though, that several actors on the show have come out and refuted or criticized it, with varying degrees of harshness.

Personally, I think that there's no need for a redo- just do like I'm doing, and imagine that the final episode was 8.3. That honestly works as an ending to the series, for me. Its a powerful, bitter sweet ending: the White Walkers are beaten, Arya's journey has come full-circle (I don't think we needed the scene with the Hound to show that she has moved past revenge for the sake of revenge being her main goal), Danny and Jon are victorious but its a costly victory, Jaime's redemption arc can be left intact, and as for Cersei- 1. Who really cares that much about Cersei? The world has been saved. She's just another bad ruler, and will go in due time, as they all eventually do. And 2. If they hadn't nerfed the dragons/buffed Euron and the Scorpions for the 8.4 (and then quickly rendered them impotent again for 8.5), Cersei should have been a walk in the park. Yes, it leaves a few secondary plots and personal dynamics not fully resolved, but for a series as big and complicated as this one, that's honestly okay with me. You can imagine that whoever you prefer ultimately ended up sitting on the throne, but probably either Danny or Jon/Danny co-rule. It makes the last season very short, and a little bumpy, but it works.
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals Sherman and Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"They are nearer to me than the other side, in thought and sentiment, though bitterly hostile personally. They are utterly lawless - the unhandiest devils in the world to deal with - but after all their faces are set Zion-wards."- Lincoln on radical Abolitionists.


"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"-Terry Pratchett's DEATH.


I am a dual citizen of the US and Canada.

User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 17944
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-05-23 07:58pm

If regarding the final three episodes as valid, then my head canon is that either a) a Faceless man replaced Danny in 8.4, causing her character derailment, and Arya has or eventually will figure this out, or b) Every contrived feeling thing is part of some long game that Bran/the Three-Eye Raven is playing to become King/save the world/destroy the world/rule the world, whichever one floats your boat. This becomes the more likely one for sure after 8.6. In particulary, Bran possessing Drogon momentarily would nicely explain why he didn't roast Jon like a marshmallow.
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals Sherman and Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"They are nearer to me than the other side, in thought and sentiment, though bitterly hostile personally. They are utterly lawless - the unhandiest devils in the world to deal with - but after all their faces are set Zion-wards."- Lincoln on radical Abolitionists.


"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"-Terry Pratchett's DEATH.


I am a dual citizen of the US and Canada.

User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 17944
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-05-26 10:59pm

So, somebody saw the petition to remake season eight, and decided to do something more positive with the Danny outrage:

https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/ustv/a275 ... targaryen/
In light of the recent petition craze, one Game of Thrones fan has decided to do some good and raise funds for a charity developed by Emilia Clarke.

The epic series' eighth and final season came to a divisive conclusion last weekend, which quickly prompted a petition to get the whole thing remade.

Of course, this will never materialise (even after 1.5 million+ signatures), so it's nice to see something productive happening on the pages of Reddit – thanks to user 'elle_ellaria'.

This Reddit user writes: "Since there's been so much negativity flying around, especially with that petition gaining traction, I thought maybe we could do something really decent that can make a difference in peoples' lives, and show a little love for one cast member in particular.

"In case you weren't aware, Emilia wrote a personal essay for The New Yorker in March about her experience suffering two brain haemorrhages, the first of which happened shortly after wrapping season 1. With that essay she launched her charity 'SameYou', in aid of increasing neuro-rehabilitation access to young people after brain injury.

"It's clear that Emilia invested much of herself into Dany and in turn drew strength from her when she needed it. The fact that the showrunners did not even care to inform her of her character's turn, let alone write a properly fleshed-out script that did her character (and others!) justice, is unforgivable.

"They've since scurried away to avoid the backlash they knew was inevitable, but the actors are getting the brunt of it. And I just thought... how wonderful a gesture would it be for them, and for Emilia especially, to see fans of the show coming together in aid of a cause that is so dear to her heart. To really know that we appreciate her and this character she's inhabited for the better part of the last decade."

At the time of writing, this JustGiving page has racked up over £28,500 towards the £50,000 target.

It looks like the internet can produce some positivity after all.

Game of Thrones aired on HBO in the US, and you can also catch up on the show via Hulu. Viewers in the UK can catch up via Sky Atlantic and NOW TV.
Quite a nice idea. At least something good is coming out of this season.
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals Sherman and Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"They are nearer to me than the other side, in thought and sentiment, though bitterly hostile personally. They are utterly lawless - the unhandiest devils in the world to deal with - but after all their faces are set Zion-wards."- Lincoln on radical Abolitionists.


"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"-Terry Pratchett's DEATH.


I am a dual citizen of the US and Canada.

User avatar
Themightytom
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2793
Joined: 2007-12-22 11:11am
Location: United States

Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by Themightytom » 2019-05-27 02:08am

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-05-23 07:58pm
If regarding the final three episodes as valid, then my head canon is that either a) a Faceless man replaced Danny in 8.4, causing her character derailment, and Arya has or eventually will figure this out, or b) Every contrived feeling thing is part of some long game that Bran/the Three-Eye Raven is playing to become King/save the world/destroy the world/rule the world, whichever one floats your boat. This becomes the more likely one for sure after 8.6. In particulary, Bran possessing Drogon momentarily would nicely explain why he didn't roast Jon like a marshmallow.
Just consider Danny a tragic figure, doomed both to throw away the loyalties she had because she wouldn't hear advice, or doomed to betrayal because she sought bad advice.

I would have liked to see a happy ending somehow too, and the show definitely implied more than it delivered on many fronts but in a lot of areas, it was a great story. Danny's death perfectly mirrored her dream in season 2, where she touched the throne, never sat down and then joined her husband and her son.

Jon basically did to her, what the Night's watch did to him, and honestly, we're we REALLY expecting aunt and Nephew to work anything out in a non ridiculous manner?

I mean I've come around, I think. Euron was never important, Jamie was by and large just a dick, watch him again in the first few seasons, ultimately, he and Cersei didn't deserve more. Brienne is commander of the king's guard so she can't find love anyway, Podrick is probably a tragedy for the ladies, and the Starks, by and large turned out alright. I'm even okay with the resolution of Ser Bron and Ser Davis. It will be interesting to see what GRR does, if he ever even does, and otherwise we have at least one spinoff sequel.

"Since when is "the west" a nation?"-Styphon
"ACORN= Cobra obviously." AMT
This topic is... oh Village Idiot. Carry on then.--Havok

User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 17944
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-05-27 02:43am

Themightytom wrote:
2019-05-27 02:08am
The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-05-23 07:58pm
If regarding the final three episodes as valid, then my head canon is that either a) a Faceless man replaced Danny in 8.4, causing her character derailment, and Arya has or eventually will figure this out, or b) Every contrived feeling thing is part of some long game that Bran/the Three-Eye Raven is playing to become King/save the world/destroy the world/rule the world, whichever one floats your boat. This becomes the more likely one for sure after 8.6. In particulary, Bran possessing Drogon momentarily would nicely explain why he didn't roast Jon like a marshmallow.
Just consider Danny a tragic figure, doomed both to throw away the loyalties she had because she wouldn't hear advice, or doomed to betrayal because she sought bad advice.

I would have liked to see a happy ending somehow too, and the show definitely implied more than it delivered on many fronts but in a lot of areas, it was a great story. Danny's death perfectly mirrored her dream in season 2, where she touched the throne, never sat down and then joined her husband and her son.
Its not about wanting a happy ending per say. Its that the specific ending that they wrote for Danny a) feels like a sudden about-face on her previous characterization, b) plays on sexist tropes and double standards (ambitious women are crazy, women are too emotional to be trusted with power, Danny is a monster for wanting to seize power by force to an extent that male characters with similar ambitions are not judged in this show), and c) was giving sexists in the fandom pretty much what they wanted.
Jon basically did to her, what the Night's watch did to him, and honestly, we're we REALLY expecting aunt and Nephew to work anything out in a non ridiculous manner?
In a better-written show, maybe. But yeah, they were never going to get a happily ever after when they fell in love. Jon's values are incompatible with incest. Good for him, honestly. I just wish that wasn't followed up on with "Daenerys goes mad and commits mass murder because her boyfriend dumped her, before said ex-boyfriend kills her."
I mean I've come around, I think. Euron was never important, Jamie was by and large just a dick, watch him again in the first few seasons, ultimately, he and Cersei didn't deserve more.
The problem is that Jaime grew as a character from the first few seasons, and then they threw all that away in two episodes. Its the sudden reversal that feels off.
Brienne is commander of the king's guard so she can't find love anyway, Podrick is probably a tragedy for the ladies, and the Starks, by and large turned out alright.
Brienne not finding love is okay with me. Brienne being turned into Jaime's one-night stand and then pining over his memory isn't.

At least she lived and got some recognition of her abilities. Take out the Jaime sex and subsequent break-up (which ultimately does more to damage Jaime's character than her's as it throws away every bit of development he'd had over the last few seasons, and devalues the genuine respect and affection he had seemed to have for Brienne), and its one of the better endings in the series.
I'm even okay with the resolution of Ser Bron and Ser Davis. It will be interesting to see what GRR does, if he ever even does, and otherwise we have at least one spinoff sequel.
Ser Davos is actually one of the few people on this show who deserves a Small Council seat. Bronn is a dick, but plenty of other dicks on this show got happy-ish endings, and its nice to see some commoners climb the ranks, so yeah, throw him a bone and let him have his castle.

Also, I'm willing to bet this show gets a remake after the books are done (if they ever are). Its popular enough, and there's enough dissatisfaction with the ending, that in this the age of reboots, it almost has to happen.
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals Sherman and Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"They are nearer to me than the other side, in thought and sentiment, though bitterly hostile personally. They are utterly lawless - the unhandiest devils in the world to deal with - but after all their faces are set Zion-wards."- Lincoln on radical Abolitionists.


"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"-Terry Pratchett's DEATH.


I am a dual citizen of the US and Canada.

User avatar
Solauren
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 8065
Joined: 2003-05-11 09:41pm

Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by Solauren » 2019-05-27 10:42pm

Is a full reboot needed, or just a partial, I wonder? A full redo could be very expensive over all, and you'd have the new actors endlessly compared to the original ones. A partial redo of the later seasons might be in order, but still, expensive.

However....

I, for one, would love to see the entire novel series turned into a modern animation series. It would allow for a more fantastic feel closer to the books (i.e the Iron Throne being several dozen feet tall, unexpected hair colors, the White Walkers looking more 'Ethereal' and 'Ice-like' then just white-corpses), and you'd be able to get the people that played the major characters to voice act the roles.

Hell, might be able to use the existing dialogue recordings for a lot of it.
\

AniThyng
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2635
Joined: 2003-09-08 12:47pm
Location: Took an arrow in the knee.
Contact:

Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by AniThyng » 2019-05-27 11:49pm

Solauren wrote:
2019-05-27 10:42pm
Is a full reboot needed, or just a partial, I wonder? A full redo could be very expensive over all, and you'd have the new actors endlessly compared to the original ones. A partial redo of the later seasons might be in order, but still, expensive.

However....

I, for one, would love to see the entire novel series turned into a modern animation series. It would allow for a more fantastic feel closer to the books (i.e the Iron Throne being several dozen feet tall, unexpected hair colors, the White Walkers looking more 'Ethereal' and 'Ice-like' then just white-corpses), and you'd be able to get the people that played the major characters to voice act the roles.

Hell, might be able to use the existing dialogue recordings for a lot of it.
So a grimdark mirror of the dragon Prince then :D
I do know how to spell
AniThyng is merely the name I gave to what became my favourite Baldur's Gate II mage character :P

User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 17944
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-05-28 02:07am

Solauren wrote:
2019-05-27 10:42pm
Is a full reboot needed, or just a partial, I wonder? A full redo could be very expensive over all, and you'd have the new actors endlessly compared to the original ones. A partial redo of the later seasons might be in order, but still, expensive.
Necessary? No. Almost inevitable sooner or later, even if the finale had been universally acclaimed? Yeah.
However....

I, for one, would love to see the entire novel series turned into a modern animation series. It would allow for a more fantastic feel closer to the books (i.e the Iron Throne being several dozen feet tall, unexpected hair colors, the White Walkers looking more 'Ethereal' and 'Ice-like' then just white-corpses), and you'd be able to get the people that played the major characters to voice act the roles.

Hell, might be able to use the existing dialogue recordings for a lot of it.
Animation does have some practical appeal, but there's something about the realism of live action that is so appealing to me.

It would, at least, be a way to distinguish it from its predecessor though. While still allowing some aspects of the series' strongest suites (acting and music) to be carried over.
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals Sherman and Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"They are nearer to me than the other side, in thought and sentiment, though bitterly hostile personally. They are utterly lawless - the unhandiest devils in the world to deal with - but after all their faces are set Zion-wards."- Lincoln on radical Abolitionists.


"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"-Terry Pratchett's DEATH.


I am a dual citizen of the US and Canada.

User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 17944
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-06-06 03:51am

A random post off of Tumblr, but it stuck with me because it conveyed very effectively to me why I think people are enraged about what happened to Daenerys:
REVIEW: “Because in that moment, when Daenerys goes nuts, and becomes a wicked genocidal dictator who must be deposed, I am remembering her rape scene. Basic story logic: That was the beginning of her arc, this is the end, and we are being asked to see what has changed. It was a journey from powerlessness to power, but now we know this makes it a journey from good to evil, too. What you are telling me, when you make Daenerys a power-mad despot, is that it was better for her to be powerless. It was better for her to be on her knees, with a stranger’s dick forced inside her, than it was for her to be a queen. Power turns Dany bad, and her badness hurts everyone, so it was better for the whole world for that little girl to get raped, over and over and over, than it was for her to find her power.
Now, that's very harsh, probably harsher than I would have been. I don't think that it was the writers' intent to convey that message (I certainly hope that it wasn't). And in their defense, the idea that "power corrupts" is a very old theme that is not applied to any single gender (though the particular take on it, of her going mad because people don't love her, does seem pretty sexist when applied to a female leader). But the fact that the course of Daenerys' arc could lead people, not bashers of the show or the character but fans, to take it that way based on what was portrayed on-screen, is just depressing.
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals Sherman and Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"They are nearer to me than the other side, in thought and sentiment, though bitterly hostile personally. They are utterly lawless - the unhandiest devils in the world to deal with - but after all their faces are set Zion-wards."- Lincoln on radical Abolitionists.


"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"-Terry Pratchett's DEATH.


I am a dual citizen of the US and Canada.

User avatar
K. A. Pital
Glamorous Commie
Posts: 20635
Joined: 2003-02-26 11:39am
Location: Elysium

Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by K. A. Pital » 2019-06-06 04:12am

Stalinerys Targaryen should have stuck to robbing banks in Tbilisi instead of annexing Mongolia, that’s what they saying.

I hear them afraid of Meiji Restoration and Napoleon, because these events while undeniably progressive, are fundamentally anti-British, anti-feudal, although also absolutist.

This is the gist of the story.

Be afraid of change. Go back to aristos sitting at a table. Don’t let former slaves get positions of power (Grey Worm is a BAD).

In the end, Scotland gets to be independent tho, Sansa Sturgeon will start that new referendum IN THE NORTH.
Lì ci sono chiese, macerie, moschee e questure, lì frontiere, prezzi inaccessibile e freddure
Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
Qui incontri, lotte, passi sincronizzati, colori, capannelli non autorizzati,
Uccelli migratori, reti, informazioni, piazze di Tutti i like pazze di passioni...

...La tranquillità è importante ma la libertà è tutto!
Assalti Frontali

User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 17944
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-06-06 04:23am

K. A. Pital wrote:
2019-06-06 04:12am
Stalinerys Targaryen should have stuck to robbing banks in Tbilisi instead of annexing Mongolia, that’s what they saying.

I hear them afraid of Meiji Restoration and Napoleon, because these events while undeniably progressive, are fundamentally anti-British, anti-feudal, although also absolutist.

This is the gist of the story.

Be afraid of change. Go back to aristos sitting at a table. Don’t let former slaves get positions of power (Grey Worm is a BAD).

In the end, Scotland gets to be independent tho, Sansa Sturgeon will start that new referendum IN THE NORTH.
The new system of a council electing a King, rather than hereditary monarchy, is actually a (small) improvement, in my view. If it sticks (a big if). And given her actions at the end, I'd say that Daenerys's removal from power is absolutely justified (I will never condone genocide as a "necessary evil", not for any reform). I'm just mad that they contrived to reduce Danny to a more simplistic, stereotypical, villainous character like that in the first place.
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals Sherman and Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"They are nearer to me than the other side, in thought and sentiment, though bitterly hostile personally. They are utterly lawless - the unhandiest devils in the world to deal with - but after all their faces are set Zion-wards."- Lincoln on radical Abolitionists.


"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"-Terry Pratchett's DEATH.


I am a dual citizen of the US and Canada.

User avatar
K. A. Pital
Glamorous Commie
Posts: 20635
Joined: 2003-02-26 11:39am
Location: Elysium

Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by K. A. Pital » 2019-06-06 04:30am

Jon Snow didn’t really give much thought to “oh a lot of civilians were killed” until Tyrion said BUT WHAT ABOUT SANSA implying Daenerys was about to depose all feudal lords.

Only the did he go FULL BETRAYAL.

So, figure the morale of the story yourself. Only aristos matter.
Lì ci sono chiese, macerie, moschee e questure, lì frontiere, prezzi inaccessibile e freddure
Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
Qui incontri, lotte, passi sincronizzati, colori, capannelli non autorizzati,
Uccelli migratori, reti, informazioni, piazze di Tutti i like pazze di passioni...

...La tranquillità è importante ma la libertà è tutto!
Assalti Frontali

User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 17944
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-06-06 04:32am

K. A. Pital wrote:
2019-06-06 04:30am
Jon Snow didn’t really give much thought to “oh a lot of civilians were killed” until Tyrion said BUT WHAT ABOUT SANSA implying Daenerys was about to depose all feudal lords.

Only the did he go FULL BETRAYAL.

So, figure the morale of the story yourself. Only aristos matter.
Or because Sansa is his family. Also, Danny would have reasons to go after Sansa personally that have nothing to do with being pro or anti-feudalism, though I do think its likely that abolishing the feudal aristocracy would have been part of her endgame.
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals Sherman and Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"They are nearer to me than the other side, in thought and sentiment, though bitterly hostile personally. They are utterly lawless - the unhandiest devils in the world to deal with - but after all their faces are set Zion-wards."- Lincoln on radical Abolitionists.


"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"-Terry Pratchett's DEATH.


I am a dual citizen of the US and Canada.

User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 17944
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-06-06 06:54am

Emilia Clarke's thoughts on the end of the series and Daenerys's fate:

https://www.vulture.com/2019/05/emilia- ... rones.html
The stars of Game of Thrones have been keeping secrets for two years. Emilia Clarke told The New Yorker that meeting Beyoncé was tainted in part by knowing that Bey’s favorite Khaleesi was going to do some pretty awful stuff. “All I wanted to scream was ‘Please, please still like me even though my character turns into a mass-killing dictator!,’” she said. “‘Please still think that I’m representing women in a really fabulous way.’” Despite possibly earning the scorn of Beyoncé, Clarke felt her character’s arc was inevitable in a way. Dany had been through so much trauma, been betrayed by almost everyone she’d ever known, that when Varys and Jon turned on her, she couldn’t recover. Clarke thought her genocidal dragon-riding moment was deeply human: “We all have that thing, whether it’s binging on chocolate or drinking seventeen bottles of wine or having an affair.” In this case, Dany’s “thing” was destroying a city, but go off, sis. Her only regret is that we didn’t see more tenderness before she broke. “I would’ve loved some more scenes with me and Missandei. I would’ve loved some more scenes with me and Cersei,” she said. “I would’ve loved some more scenes between Grey Worm and Missandei. I would’ve loved to see a bit more between Cersei … I feel like there was … The genocide was there. That was always going to happen. And I just think more dissection and those beautifully written scenes that the boys have between characters — that we are more than happy to contently sit there and watch ten minutes of two people talking, because it’s beautiful. I just wanted to see a bit more of that.”

Clarke read the script for the finale as soon as it appeared magically on her electronic devices after filming Solo. “Even for a part that I’ve given so much to and I’ve felt so much for, and for a character that’s seen and lived through so much, I don’t know that there was any other way. But it was a shocker to read.” But Kit Harington waited until the table read, so that his reactions would be genuine. Clarke told Entertainment Weekly that she sat across from Harington so she could watch his reaction as he read. “I looked at Emilia,” he told EW, “and there was a moment of me realizing, ‘No, no …’”

Harington cried when he found out how Dany was going out, as many viewers undoubtedly were. It was important to Clarke to give a parting moment of humanity to the allegedly Mad Queen. “If you see abuse in someone young, they often are able to mentally leave the room,” she told The New Yorker. “I wanted Daenerys to be there. I wanted to show her as we saw her in the beginning: young, naïve, childlike, open, and full of love and hope. I wanted so much for that to be the last memory of her.”

Get unlimited access to Vulture and everything else New York. Learn More »

As for the successor shows, Clarke is in no hurry for more GOT content: “I just think that it would be lovely to just let this lie for a minute before doing anything else. But then it’ll be something completely different, and it won’t be Game of Thrones. It won’t be called Game of Thrones. It will be inspired by Game of Thrones characters, a fantastical series, set in a similar time … I can’t speak because I don’t know the script. But I would just like a bit more time between Game of Thrones being cold in the ground before something else comes along. Because isn’t everyone already up to their eyeballs with Game of Thrones?”
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals Sherman and Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"They are nearer to me than the other side, in thought and sentiment, though bitterly hostile personally. They are utterly lawless - the unhandiest devils in the world to deal with - but after all their faces are set Zion-wards."- Lincoln on radical Abolitionists.


"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"-Terry Pratchett's DEATH.


I am a dual citizen of the US and Canada.

User avatar
K. A. Pital
Glamorous Commie
Posts: 20635
Joined: 2003-02-26 11:39am
Location: Elysium

Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by K. A. Pital » 2019-06-06 06:55am

It sure is also family-related (although Jon is also a Targ, so...)

Incidentally it would probably have been enough for Daenerys to threaten Sansa or other Starks for Jon to turn on her. Would have been a better story too, perhaps, minus all the toxic “Cersei and Daenerys are ebul rulers and COINCIDENTALLY women, COCK MATTERS” memes spouted by Comrade Varys.
Lì ci sono chiese, macerie, moschee e questure, lì frontiere, prezzi inaccessibile e freddure
Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
Qui incontri, lotte, passi sincronizzati, colori, capannelli non autorizzati,
Uccelli migratori, reti, informazioni, piazze di Tutti i like pazze di passioni...

...La tranquillità è importante ma la libertà è tutto!
Assalti Frontali

User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 17944
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-06-06 06:59am

K. A. Pital wrote:
2019-06-06 06:55am
It sure is also family-related (although Jon is also a Targ, so...)

Incidentally it would probably have been enough for Daenerys to threaten Sansa or other Starks for Jon to turn on her. Would have been a better story too, perhaps, minus all the toxic “Cersei and Daenerys are ebul rulers and COINCIDENTALLY women, COCK MATTERS” memes spouted by Comrade Varys.
A tragic conflict in which both Jon and Daenerys have a legitimate, sympathetic point, and are at odds due to larger circumstances, would have been better than turning one of the show's protagonists and main female leads into a lunatic monster almost at the last moment, yeah. If they could pull it off effectively, anyway.

Jon going against honour and duty to save his family would also be a nice parallel to Ned, because that was Ned in a nutshell. People always go on about how "honourable" Ned is (usually, in the fandom, to disparage him for not being more of a HARD MAN MAKING HARD CHOICES), but Ned's "honour" and duty always lasted right up until one of his family (or an innocent child) was in danger.
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals Sherman and Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"They are nearer to me than the other side, in thought and sentiment, though bitterly hostile personally. They are utterly lawless - the unhandiest devils in the world to deal with - but after all their faces are set Zion-wards."- Lincoln on radical Abolitionists.


"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"-Terry Pratchett's DEATH.


I am a dual citizen of the US and Canada.

User avatar
K. A. Pital
Glamorous Commie
Posts: 20635
Joined: 2003-02-26 11:39am
Location: Elysium

Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by K. A. Pital » 2019-06-06 07:30am

Cersei also had a fairly compelling vision of a united nation-state, for what it’s worth.

Just shows WOMEN BAD lol, MAN STRONG CLAIM TO THRONE.
Lì ci sono chiese, macerie, moschee e questure, lì frontiere, prezzi inaccessibile e freddure
Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
Qui incontri, lotte, passi sincronizzati, colori, capannelli non autorizzati,
Uccelli migratori, reti, informazioni, piazze di Tutti i like pazze di passioni...

...La tranquillità è importante ma la libertà è tutto!
Assalti Frontali

User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 17944
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-06-06 07:43am

K. A. Pital wrote:
2019-06-06 07:30am
Cersei also had a fairly compelling vision of a united nation-state, for what it’s worth.
I mean, if you're okay with the constant murder, maybe. Although its pretty clear that its simply a side effect of her goals, and that Cersei gives nary a shit about any political ideals, or anything other than herself and her family.

She did take out the Faith Militant (after first empowering them), but I suspect she just opened the door for the Lol/the Old Gods to become the dominant Westrosi faiths. And fuck the Lol.
Just shows WOMEN BAD lol, MAN STRONG CLAIM TO THRONE.
Yeah.

Its not so grating with Cersei because she was always like that from the start, and because for most of the show's run there were other female leaders who weren't so detestable (Danny among them), but as of the final season especially, there seems to be a pretty clear undertone of "women aren't fit to rule, and ambitious women are evil/mad".
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals Sherman and Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"They are nearer to me than the other side, in thought and sentiment, though bitterly hostile personally. They are utterly lawless - the unhandiest devils in the world to deal with - but after all their faces are set Zion-wards."- Lincoln on radical Abolitionists.


"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"-Terry Pratchett's DEATH.


I am a dual citizen of the US and Canada.

User avatar
K. A. Pital
Glamorous Commie
Posts: 20635
Joined: 2003-02-26 11:39am
Location: Elysium

Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by K. A. Pital » 2019-06-06 07:50am

Cersei is a scheming ruler who took out disloyal nobles, disposed of a theocratic cult and planned a lasting empire on land and sea (she would’ve prob removed Euron once her goals were reached).

She was cruel to the disloyal nobles, but so were most of the other power-hungry aristos.

Her political project is very self-centered but also very centralist, and so progressive.

In the end we have feudalism and feudal separation restored, and minus one kingdom, instead of consolidating into a modern nation.

It sends a pretty bad message even without the male/female angle.
Lì ci sono chiese, macerie, moschee e questure, lì frontiere, prezzi inaccessibile e freddure
Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
Qui incontri, lotte, passi sincronizzati, colori, capannelli non autorizzati,
Uccelli migratori, reti, informazioni, piazze di Tutti i like pazze di passioni...

...La tranquillità è importante ma la libertà è tutto!
Assalti Frontali

User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 17944
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-06-06 08:00am

K. A. Pital wrote:
2019-06-06 07:50am
Cersei is a scheming ruler who took out disloyal nobles, disposed of a theocratic cult and planned a lasting empire on land and sea (she would’ve prob removed Euron once her goals were reached).

She was cruel to the disloyal nobles, but so were most of the other power-hungry aristos.

Her political project is very self-centered but also very centralist, and so progressive.
Clearly centralized and progressive are not synonymous terms, unless one wants to contend that, say, Nazi Germany was progressive. But yeah, I'd generally agree that a centralized monarchy is preferable to divided feudal states, all other things being equal.
In the end we have feudalism and feudal separation restored, and minus one kingdom, instead of consolidating into a modern nation.

It sends a pretty bad message even without the male/female angle.
Agreed for the most part, although I do like that they have (at least theoretically) done away with hereditary kingship.

Fuck secessionist Sansa, though. Time to give Winterfell the General Sherman treatment. :twisted:
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals Sherman and Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"They are nearer to me than the other side, in thought and sentiment, though bitterly hostile personally. They are utterly lawless - the unhandiest devils in the world to deal with - but after all their faces are set Zion-wards."- Lincoln on radical Abolitionists.


"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"-Terry Pratchett's DEATH.


I am a dual citizen of the US and Canada.

User avatar
K. A. Pital
Glamorous Commie
Posts: 20635
Joined: 2003-02-26 11:39am
Location: Elysium

Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by K. A. Pital » 2019-06-06 08:07am

Secessionist Sansa is OK, but conditionally (the conditions being that imperialism of the nation stunts the development of the north - which isn’t the case at this point in history).

I mean, Ireland should be independent and united, and clearly British rule has decimated it genocidally.

If Sansa separates under same conditions, more power to her. But it seems like that’s not the case, it is just feudal squabbles.
Lì ci sono chiese, macerie, moschee e questure, lì frontiere, prezzi inaccessibile e freddure
Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
Qui incontri, lotte, passi sincronizzati, colori, capannelli non autorizzati,
Uccelli migratori, reti, informazioni, piazze di Tutti i like pazze di passioni...

...La tranquillità è importante ma la libertà è tutto!
Assalti Frontali

User avatar
Esquire
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1519
Joined: 2011-11-16 11:20pm

Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by Esquire » 2019-06-06 12:14pm

Is it... at all possible that y'all are reading too much into this? I know that's what we do here, but are you seriously worried about the IRL-politics implications of the show?
“Heroes are heroes because they are heroic in behavior, not because they won or lost.” Nassim Nicholas Taleb

User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 17944
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-06-06 12:22pm

Esquire wrote:
2019-06-06 12:14pm
Is it... at all possible that y'all are reading too much into this? I know that's what we do here, but are you seriously worried about the IRL-politics implications of the show?
Yes. As we should be. Media has always been shaped by, and used to shape, political opinions. People saying "Its just entertainment, its not political" are fooling themselves. And people saying "It shouldn't be political" are generally being disingenuous, because I guarantee you that very few people mind when their entertainment reflects their political views. When people say "stop making shows political", what they generally mean is "I don't want it to say/show something I disagree with."

Everything is political. Literally any topic has political implications, because people disagree, and politics is simply a word for the processes by which people disagree about issues on a societal level. You can choose to ignore it and focus on other aspects of a story. That's your choice. Sometimes its nice to turn your higher brain functions off for a bit. But it will still be political, whether you choose to think about it or not. You can either be consciously political or unconsciously political. You cannot be apolitical.
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals Sherman and Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"They are nearer to me than the other side, in thought and sentiment, though bitterly hostile personally. They are utterly lawless - the unhandiest devils in the world to deal with - but after all their faces are set Zion-wards."- Lincoln on radical Abolitionists.


"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"-Terry Pratchett's DEATH.


I am a dual citizen of the US and Canada.

User avatar
Esquire
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1519
Joined: 2011-11-16 11:20pm

Re: Game Of Thrones: Final Season --SPOILERS!

Post by Esquire » 2019-06-06 01:18pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-06-06 12:22pm
Esquire wrote:
2019-06-06 12:14pm
Is it... at all possible that y'all are reading too much into this? I know that's what we do here, but are you seriously worried about the IRL-politics implications of the show?
Yes. As we should be. Media has always been shaped by, and used to shape, political opinions. People saying "Its just entertainment, its not political" are fooling themselves. And people saying "It shouldn't be political" are generally being disingenuous, because I guarantee you that very few people mind when their entertainment reflects their political views. When people say "stop making shows political", what they generally mean is "I don't want it to say/show something I disagree with."

Everything is political. Literally any topic has political implications, because people disagree, and politics is simply a word for the processes by which people disagree about issues on a societal level. You can choose to ignore it and focus on other aspects of a story. That's your choice. Sometimes its nice to turn your higher brain functions off for a bit. But it will still be political, whether you choose to think about it or not. You can either be consciously political or unconsciously political. You cannot be apolitical.
Jesus Christ, it must be exhausting to be you.

No, everything is not political. You can politicize anything, but it doesn't start that way. Game of Thrones has no position on e.g. Northern Ireland, and trying to spin one out is not a useful project. Clearly I'm not going to change your mind here, but do you at least realize that this kind of thing makes you sound like a loon to anybody who doesn't already completely agree with you?
“Heroes are heroes because they are heroic in behavior, not because they won or lost.” Nassim Nicholas Taleb

Post Reply