You're in chare of Great Westeros Railways (RAR!)

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You're in chare of Great Westeros Railways (RAR!)

Post by Zor » 2019-04-02 05:40pm

In this scenario, you wake up to find that you are in the Seven Kingdoms in 295 AC, though things have gone rather differently. Shortly after Roberts War, a fleet had arrived at King's landing loaded with machine tools, blueprints and examples and after winning the King's favor went on to establish to the Northeast of King's Landing The Railworks, an extended industrial complex in which ore, coal and scrap went in to be rolled into rails and plate and assembled into proud Steam Locomotives which would power across the land. Now you are in charge of this operation after it's orginal founder passed away and you are put in charge*.
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Image
Bridges have been constructed over major waterways. All lines have an up line and a Down Line. A telegraph line also follows each rail line.
Locomotives, rolling stock and other such things

All trains and rolling stock are set to a 1.5 meter gauge

Wombat
  • 2-6-0 Configuration saddleback Tank Engine
  • 50 Tonnes
  • Top Speed 90km/h, 60km/h while pulling five fully laden 70 tonne cars.
  • 50 km range for fuel and water, extended to 200km for fuel with a tender.
  • 64 in service.
  • Sixteen wombats can be produced every year.
A basic short range locomotive designed for branch lines and shunting purposes. Reliable, compact, endearing and economical. The complex has a small zoo in which a few dozen common wombats are kept.

Imperator
  • 4-8-2 configuration
  • 200 Tonnes, not including tender.
  • Top Speed 120km/h, 80km/h while pulling twenty cars including tender.
  • 200km range for water, 500 km for coal
  • 8 in service
  • Four Imperators can be built every year.
A heavy duty locomotive designed for long distance main line work. Fast, powerful, imposing and expensive.

Rolling stock includes flat beds, hopper cars, box cars, cattle cars and passenger cars. Passenger cars models include third class (basic wooden benches), Second class (padded sprung seats with some more finishings), first class (sub divided into a number of small rooms with running water), dining cars (with attached kitchens) and private cars for the likes of King Robert. Each locomotive has a small electric generator set up to power headlights and internal lighting for all passenger compartments. All passenger wagons have a toilet. 256 basic chassis can be built each year, which can be turned into various types of specialist cars with additional work. Expanding production capacity is possible, but would requite a fair bit of capital and several years of work.

Firefly Electric Trolley
  • Eight wheels on two bogies, all powered
  • 12 tonnes
  • Top speed of 50 km/h
  • Two Configurations: Passenger has Seating for up to forty people while cargo can carry up to 12 tonnes of cargo
  • Requires an overhead power line
  • 8 in service
  • Four can be built each year given the current configuration
A basic trolley car designed for use in cities. All are currently in service in and around your railworks or which runs through The Gate of the Gods into King's Landing and out through the Gold Gate to bring in workers from the city. The Railworks has a 100 megawatt electrical plant. The railwork can produce up to 50 km of rails a day.

Misc
You are now aged 25 (unless you are younger than that IRL, then you remain your age) and are in good health. Any condition which requires medication that you might have once had have been dealt with.
If you are a transexual, you're biological sex now matches your gender. Great Westeros Railway has an equal opportunity employment program going.

In your employ are some 40,000 men and women across the Seven Kingdoms. 17,000 of these are around The Railworks feeding the furnaces, running the mills, managing the accounts, assembling the units, managing the books and similar. Most of them are Westeros Born but 1,000 of them are part of you're "Railway Men" (French and English people who wear Victorian era clothes have a friendly rivalry) and provide the core of your Engineering elite, though you do have a school which trains up kids in the basics of reading and writing and each engineer has several apprentices. The Railworks also produce Another 15,000 work at the switching yards, water towers, coal bunkers, train stations (King's Landing Central being the biggest), local repair yards, telegraph station people and similar. 5,000 people are employed as Navies for railway maintenance and expansion and their support staff, though more can be hired cheaply from the smallfolk. 3,000 people actually work on the trains as engineers, technicians, stoakers, waiters, cooks, conductors, porters and 1,500 railguards. Railguards have smart blue uniforms, helmets, breastplates, truncheons, short swords and sidearms to keep order protect the railway from unwanted advances by bandits, reactionaries and various other Anti-Locomotites led by Captain Du-Province. Standard policy is that with the exception of the Kingsguard and his majesty the King all weapons be transported in locked chests in luggage cars. Various maesters and a few Braavosi scholars bum around the Railworks taking notes and have been trying to make their own steam engines. Currently they've gotten to the point where they can make crude but functional steam engines for riverboats which are no longer prone to exploding.

Since you employ a decent number of people and bring in fresh produce from as far as Dorne, you are quite well liked among the population of King's Landing. King Robert also rather likes the railway, your predecessor and now you by extension for a variety of reasons ranging from the fact that he gets a share of the Glory to the fact that he prefers the railway car far more to any wagon he'd ever had to point up to. Even though there are some teamsters and nobles away from King's Landing which object to the idea of steam engines thundering across the landscape uniting the realm like never before. Fortunately the Faceless Men have been paid off and won't assassinate you.

The Railworks itself has a 10 meter tall brick and stone wall around it as well as steel gates. It has a 13 storey tall skyscraper which oversees the operations, the top floor of which has your penthouse and office. 500 Railgaurd are stationed within it's walls for security. Raw materials and fuel are procured from all over the seven kingdoms, but primarily from the Westerlands, Stormlands, Vale and Iron Islands delivered by ship and train.

What do you do?

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Re: You're in chare of Great Westeros Railways (RAR!)

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-04-03 02:38am

I get 1500 guards, including 500 guards near King's Landing, armed with fucking revolvers?

I offer my manpower to Ned Stark instead of Littlefinger's. That solves a lot of problems. I also offer to let his kids take shelter in my base of operations, and smuggle them out on the rails if necessary. I'm willing to bet that both Arya and Sansa would like the railway, for different reasons (Sansa for the relative comfort and luxury of travel, Arya for the novelty of it and the equal opportunity employment scheme). Basically, there's going to be a major war of some sort (too many people pushing for it from different directions to head off, between the Lannisters, both Baratheon brothers, Littlefinger, the Targaryens, the Martels, and the Greyjoys). And something as strategically important as the railroad isn't going to be allowed to remain neutral. So I throw my lot in with the Starks early (who I can at least trust to treat me more or less fairly and keep any deals they make), and hope for the best. Sucks that I'll probably also have to back Stannis "I like to sacrifice people to my fire god" Baratheon for King, but its the lesser evil. If Danny shows up with dragons, though, I switch allegiances so fast it makes Stannis's head spin. Don't want the dragons burning my rail tracks, or Dothraki raiders tearing them up. I don't touch the Greyjoys or the Lannisters with a twenty foot pike- both factions are run by a conservative reactionary/traditionalist who might want to curtail or abolish the rail.

If I can limit some of the damage before the fighting breaks out, so much the better- I'm going to hire some good accountants, and when Littlefinger inevitably tries to defraud the railway in some financial scheme, my accountants write up a thorough report and plop the full evidence straight onto Ned Stark's desk. Which should help ensure that he trusts me over Littlefinger, too. Letting slip in Ned's presence that Littledick likes to boast about taking his wife's virginity shouldn't hurt, either. :twisted: Try to get the Crown to borrow some money from me, rather than Tywin or the Iron Bank, as well.

I also donate some of my profits every year voluntarily to setting up hospitals and soup kitchens in King's Landing (maybe through the Faith- buttering up the Faith of the Seven can't hurt, just in case the Faith Militant comes along and decides that the railway is an affront to the Gods or something), and some more to funding the Night's Watch.

Beyond that, I keep trying to expand the rail network, and provide good jobs to the small folk (especially the women). I prioritize building a line north to Castle Black (see if I can get the Starks to go for it to guarantee quick reinforcements for the Wall), and another along the length of the Wall so the Watch's limited manpower can be quickly redeployed. Built a line to White Harbor. Maybe one through the Crownlands toward Dragonstone (the last station connecting to a new steam ferry to Dragonstone). Maybe do the same with Pyke. Ultimately, aside from propping up the Wall, I'll probably defer to my economic advisers (recruited from local merchants) on where the best places to build new lines are. Since Westeros has legal prostitution, maybe set up a network of brothels at stops along the rail line, regulated to 21st. century standards, to provide safer employment for prostitutes. Hire on more guards if permitted by the Crown. If not, then set aside some "emergency funds", which I will privately earmark as "To hire sell swords" for when the shit hits the fan. I won't possibly be able to adequate guard the entire rail line in a war, so I'll need the capability to rapidly respond to raiders even if the rail lines are damaged. So, lots of light cavalry. I want anyone who starts trying to sever supply lines by tearing up my tracks to be quickly neutralized.

Also, wow, I just realized that Walder Frey is going to be fucking livid over the rail line, as I see that the main line goes right past the Twins, effectively neutralizing his strategic and economic importance. :D
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals Sherman and Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"They are nearer to me than the other side, in thought and sentiment, though bitterly hostile personally. They are utterly lawless - the unhandiest devils in the world to deal with - but after all their faces are set Zion-wards."- Lincoln on radical Abolitionists.


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Re: You're in chare of Great Westeros Railways (RAR!)

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-04-03 02:50am

Hmm, quick questions:

How close are the steam ships to being commercially viable, and what are my odds on cornering that market?

Also, how widely-distributed is fire arm tech? Is it something just I and maybe a few nobles have, or is the War of Five Kings going to be fought with semi-automatics and trenches?
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals Sherman and Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"They are nearer to me than the other side, in thought and sentiment, though bitterly hostile personally. They are utterly lawless - the unhandiest devils in the world to deal with - but after all their faces are set Zion-wards."- Lincoln on radical Abolitionists.


"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"-Terry Pratchett's DEATH.


I am a dual citizen of the US and Canada.

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Re: You're in chare of Great Westeros Railways (RAR!)

Post by Zor » 2019-04-03 03:05am

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-04-03 02:50am
Also, how widely-distributed is fire arm tech?
Leaving aside two revolvers which were "lost" and are now kept secretly bought up by a couple of wealthy individuals along with a couple of boxes of pistol rounds all firearms are in your possession. Nobody else knows how to make firearms yet, let alone has the capacity to make revolvers.

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Re: You're in chare of Great Westeros Railways (RAR!)

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-04-03 03:07am

Zor wrote:
2019-04-03 03:05am
The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-04-03 02:50am
Also, how widely-distributed is fire arm tech?
Leaving aside two revolvers which were "lost" and are now kept secretly bought up by a couple of wealthy individuals along with a couple of boxes of pistol rounds all firearms are in your possession. Nobody else knows how to make firearms yet, let alone has the capacity to make revolvers.

Zor
Oh God. Those two missing revolvers are going to turn up in the possession of Littlefinger and Varys, aren't they? :)

Also, what's the deal on the steamships? Is this something I can set up as something commercially-viable, to extend the railway to Dragonstone and Pyke, for example?
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals Sherman and Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"They are nearer to me than the other side, in thought and sentiment, though bitterly hostile personally. They are utterly lawless - the unhandiest devils in the world to deal with - but after all their faces are set Zion-wards."- Lincoln on radical Abolitionists.


"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"-Terry Pratchett's DEATH.


I am a dual citizen of the US and Canada.

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Re: You're in chare of Great Westeros Railways (RAR!)

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-04-03 05:18am

Oh, and since I have an electrical plant, start work on bringing electric power to all of King's Landing, and then expand out from there. Soon I'll be running Westeros Utilities as well as Westeros Railways and Westeros steamships.
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals Sherman and Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"They are nearer to me than the other side, in thought and sentiment, though bitterly hostile personally. They are utterly lawless - the unhandiest devils in the world to deal with - but after all their faces are set Zion-wards."- Lincoln on radical Abolitionists.


"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"-Terry Pratchett's DEATH.


I am a dual citizen of the US and Canada.

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Re: You're in chare of Great Westeros Railways (RAR!)

Post by Ziggy Stardust » 2019-04-03 08:48pm

Honestly, this railroad existing in-universe does a lot to explain how quickly characters started traveling in Season 7.

More seriously, how long would it take for other factions to start manufacturing some primitive firearms/cannon? Even if they don't have the capacity to make revolvers, once word gets out that such a weapon is possible and also incredibly effective I would expect clever individuals (Qyburn, anyone?) to start producing something analogous to real-life early firearms or artillery. The technological sophistication of Westeros is certainly sufficient to start producing these once the premise is introduced, given that Westeros is by-and-large modeled after a period of European history where blackpowder weaponry had already existed for around a century in some form or another. I would expect the Lannisters, at least, to at least try building something like a ribauldequin or hand-cannons.

The political implications of this are pretty interesting:

Would Dorne even consent to the railway being built, given both their tendency towards isolation from the rest of the realm and their hatred for the Baratheon dynasty in particular? I could seem them literally attacking any engineers attempting to construct the railroad through in order to stop it from happening. How would they be compelled?

As TRR said, this immediately renders House Frey completely irrelevant. It also immediately turns the inn at the crossroads into a massive hub and strategically critical location. With the access to the Trident and the Kingsroad, as well as acting as the connection between the two most important rail lines, it would pretty quickly blossom into a decent sized city. Who is in charge of this city? It lies in the riverlands, so will presumably be claimed by either the Tullys themselves or whoever the closest lord happens to be. What about all the other lands the railway travels through? Presumably a number of other lords will suddenly have their land bisected by the railway.

The Lannisters won't be happy about the fact that opposing houses (the Tullys in the Riverlands and the Tyrells in the Reach) are in control of the two vitally important rail-lines that lead to the Rock.

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Re: You're in chare of Great Westeros Railways (RAR!)

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-04-03 08:56pm

Ziggy Stardust wrote:
2019-04-03 08:48pm
Honestly, this railroad existing in-universe does a lot to explain how quickly characters started traveling in Season 7.

More seriously, how long would it take for other factions to start manufacturing some primitive firearms/cannon? Even if they don't have the capacity to make revolvers, once word gets out that such a weapon is possible and also incredibly effective I would expect clever individuals (Qyburn, anyone?) to start producing something analogous to real-life early firearms or artillery. The technological sophistication of Westeros is certainly sufficient to start producing these once the premise is introduced, given that Westeros is by-and-large modeled after a period of European history where blackpowder weaponry had already existed for around a century in some form or another. I would expect the Lannisters, at least, to at least try building something like a ribauldequin or hand-cannons.
Quite. It frankly strains credulity that something as revolutionizing to warfare as revolvers would remain even semi-controlled for very long. Its possible that at first, it might simply be seen as magic, and after that, conservative attitudes/Robert's apathy might delay attempts to copy it/steal it/buy it (or some lords might be smart enough to see how mass producing firearms would vastly erode the power of the feudal nobility and ultimately make them militarily irrelevant). But the moment the War of the Five Kings or anything remotely on that scale breaks out, some smart chap is going to think "Hey, you know what would give me a huge advantage in this war?" I expect my weapons will be better than the Westrosi copies for a bit, and I have a head start in stockpiling them, but this is an advantage I'm going to have to make use of quickly, before others start catching up.

It is going to be interesting the first time knights try to charge guys with firearms, though. Thus ends the age of chivalry.
The political implications of this are pretty interesting:

Would Dorne even consent to the railway being built, given both their tendency towards isolation from the rest of the realm and their hatred for the Baratheon dynasty in particular? I could seem them literally attacking any engineers attempting to construct the railroad through in order to stop it from happening. How would they be compelled?
Dorne wasn't in open rebellion at this point, though (which attacking the rail lines would be).
As TRR said, this immediately renders House Frey completely irrelevant. It also immediately turns the inn at the crossroads into a massive hub and strategically critical location. With the access to the Trident and the Kingsroad, as well as acting as the connection between the two most important rail lines, it would pretty quickly blossom into a decent sized city. Who is in charge of this city? It lies in the riverlands, so will presumably be claimed by either the Tullys themselves or whoever the closest lord happens to be. What about all the other lands the railway travels through? Presumably a number of other lords will suddenly have their land bisected by the railway.
Clearly, I should be made lord of the new city. :wink: Trying to think of a suitably Westrosi-sounding name for a railroad tycoon. House Ironhorse, maybe? :)
The Lannisters won't be happy about the fact that opposing houses (the Tullys in the Riverlands and the Tyrells in the Reach) are in control of the two vitally important rail-lines that lead to the Rock.
Oh yeah, Tywin is totally going to try to either get control of or destroy the railway at some point. Especially since he's a traditionalist IIRC, and everything about the railroad is going to erode the power of the feudal nobility over time. Pre-White Walkers, Tywin is probably my main threat in this scenario.

Edits: My misgivings about the aristocracy aside, I actually seriously wonder if it would be possible to parlay my monopoly on something so strategically important as the railway into a lordship/small council seat. Or is that a non-starter for someone who isn't born a part of the hereditary nobility? Stannis elevated Ser Davos, but Stannis is an odd duck in Westeros when it comes to actually rewarding service and punishing crime regardless of social rank.

Ah well, more reason to back the Ned/Stannis faction, I guess.

Also, need to think about spreading the railway to Essos, at some point. Maybe once Danny takes over (presuming she does so in this timeline) and incorporates both Westeros and Essosi territory into her domain, I talk to her about building a line up the west coast of Essos. The Mereen/Bravos line, anyone? Maybe with another running inland through the Dothraki Sea?

Actually, now I think about it, rail and steam will be a godsend for tying an empire as large as Danny's together, especially if her dragons are a one-off/never have children/get killed in the war.
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals Sherman and Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"They are nearer to me than the other side, in thought and sentiment, though bitterly hostile personally. They are utterly lawless - the unhandiest devils in the world to deal with - but after all their faces are set Zion-wards."- Lincoln on radical Abolitionists.


"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"-Terry Pratchett's DEATH.


I am a dual citizen of the US and Canada.

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Re: You're in chare of Great Westeros Railways (RAR!)

Post by KraytKing » 2019-04-08 10:51am

I agree with TRR, the Starks would be the best side to support in a war. Towards that end, I need to expand and spread manufacturing ability. I don't want it concentrated in comparatively vulnerable King's Landing, but neither do I want to waste time moving my manufacturing base. So I'll start building new foundries at Winterfell, Riverrun, and in the Vale (probably not at the Eyrie, for obvious reasons). Winterfell is obvious, RIverrun can probably be counted on, and if I have manufacturing capacity in the Vale that might encourage Lysa to enter the war. Additionally, foundries give me an excuse to have manpower in position as security guards. A few hundred men with firearms can be incredibly influential. In the case of the Vale, those men will seize power from Lysa if she won't support the Starks.

I want to introduce longarms for my men. At the very least, a barrel and stock to attach to the revolver, but hopefully as much as a magazine-fed bolt or lever action. Lever for the cavalry, bolt for the infantry. Regardless, I'm expanding my manpower base for the next five years. Train every railworker in basic combat skills, not just the guards. I'm going to be swimming in money and nobody understands what this sort of thing really requires, so I'll also hire two or three times as many workers as I really need. They get short shifts, spend a lot of time in "professional development." Win-win. They get cushy lives, I have a hundred thousand pretty good soldiers with incredibly deadly weapons when the need arises. If I develop longarms, my men become even more effective and I can probably defend the King's Landing headquarters with a trench system.

The rail and steam technology corners the market for overland transportation, and I want to turn that dominance of one market into dominance of all markets. Steam ships to take over sea trade, obvious one. If the railworks can produce high quality steel on an industrial scale, I can sell sword and armor blanks to blacksmiths. Run most of them out of business as blacksmithing becomes much less labor intensive, then hire all the unemployed blacksmiths to work for me. Then stop selling blanks and start selling swords directly to lords, run the rest of the blacksmiths out of business (except those that do specialty work, like custom armor and Valyrian steel).

Electricity would also be good. Make sure my HQ is fully wired first, naturally, then expand along the rail lines. Wiring Kings Landing will be long but worthwhile. Make sure castles of lords I like have electricity, then port cities. That will expand my influence as well. Hell, maybe I can get enough power to lay a tax on every ship that lands in a harbor I service.

I'll lay new rail across all the Seven Kingdoms. More rail means more money. I don't want the Lannisters getting the mobility in wartime, so I'll lay less there than any others. The other kingdoms are all sort of on the fence. North, Riverlands, and Vale will be my main focus. North can benefit greatly from the reduced travel times when hosting. Riverlands don't need it as much, but more mobility can only help. If I butter up the Vale, that will either convince Lysa to enter the war or make my coup easier.

I see no need to support the Red God. If memory serves, Stannis was forced into that business because he had no other way. If I support him from the start and Ned survives, he won't need it. I can't see the Tyrells supporting Renly if Stannis sits the throne and has the backing of the North and the Riverlands at the least, not to mention the Union Sunset Rail Company. Rail lines across Reach and Stormlands will also improve my standing with the local lords and make them more reluctant to go against my will.

The war should end favorably for me, and quickly. As long as Reach, Stormlands, and Westerlands don't all unite against me, I don't think I'll lose. Seize King's Landing after Robert dies and place Stannis on the throne with Ned Stark as Hand. Detain Renly until I'm sure he won't go gallivanting off to raise the Stormlands and the Reach. In his absence, Stormlands will probably join Stannis and Reach might remain neutral. Stormlands, Riverlands, and North versus Tywin Lannister. Not an issue. Especially given the massive gun-armed private army I have and the tremendous mobility advantage my side gets.

Obviously, that is a pretty good scenario. Might not go that way. But I think I have enough advantage to win even if Stannis for some reason refuses to join me, or Renly gets away and fires up the Reach, or something else goes wrong.
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Re: You're in chare of Great Westeros Railways (RAR!)

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-04-08 11:46am

KraytKing wrote:
2019-04-08 10:51am
I agree with TRR, the Starks would be the best side to support in a war. Towards that end, I need to expand and spread manufacturing ability. I don't want it concentrated in comparatively vulnerable King's Landing, but neither do I want to waste time moving my manufacturing base. So I'll start building new foundries at Winterfell, Riverrun, and in the Vale (probably not at the Eyrie, for obvious reasons). Winterfell is obvious, RIverrun can probably be counted on, and if I have manufacturing capacity in the Vale that might encourage Lysa to enter the war. Additionally, foundries give me an excuse to have manpower in position as security guards. A few hundred men with firearms can be incredibly influential. In the case of the Vale, those men will seize power from Lysa if she won't support the Starks.
Give me ten good men with revolvers...
I want to introduce longarms for my men. At the very least, a barrel and stock to attach to the revolver, but hopefully as much as a magazine-fed bolt or lever action. Lever for the cavalry, bolt for the infantry. Regardless, I'm expanding my manpower base for the next five years. Train every railworker in basic combat skills, not just the guards. I'm going to be swimming in money and nobody understands what this sort of thing really requires, so I'll also hire two or three times as many workers as I really need. They get short shifts, spend a lot of time in "professional development." Win-win. They get cushy lives, I have a hundred thousand pretty good soldiers with incredibly deadly weapons when the need arises. If I develop longarms, my men become even more effective and I can probably defend the King's Landing headquarters with a trench system.
Also, providing that many well-paying jobs ought to make you popular with the small folk, and cut down on banditry. You don't want to be too obviously militarizing before the fighting breaks out, though, as that will probably make the lords/King uneasy.
The rail and steam technology corners the market for overland transportation, and I want to turn that dominance of one market into dominance of all markets. Steam ships to take over sea trade, obvious one. If the railworks can produce high quality steel on an industrial scale, I can sell sword and armor blanks to blacksmiths. Run most of them out of business as blacksmithing becomes much less labor intensive, then hire all the unemployed blacksmiths to work for me. Then stop selling blanks and start selling swords directly to lords, run the rest of the blacksmiths out of business (except those that do specialty work, like custom armor and Valyrian steel).
My end goal is to become an institution somewhat akin to the Faith or the Maesters- the only one of its kind, theoretically subordinate to the Crown, but influential enough that the Crown can't just ignore what we say.
Electricity would also be good. Make sure my HQ is fully wired first, naturally, then expand along the rail lines. Wiring Kings Landing will be long but worthwhile. Make sure castles of lords I like have electricity, then port cities. That will expand my influence as well. Hell, maybe I can get enough power to lay a tax on every ship that lands in a harbor I service.

I'll lay new rail across all the Seven Kingdoms. More rail means more money. I don't want the Lannisters getting the mobility in wartime, so I'll lay less there than any others. The other kingdoms are all sort of on the fence. North, Riverlands, and Vale will be my main focus. North can benefit greatly from the reduced travel times when hosting. Riverlands don't need it as much, but more mobility can only help. If I butter up the Vale, that will either convince Lysa to enter the war or make my coup easier.
That all sounds good.
I see no need to support the Red God. If memory serves, Stannis was forced into that business because he had no other way. If I support him from the start and Ned survives, he won't need it. I can't see the Tyrells supporting Renly if Stannis sits the throne and has the backing of the North and the Riverlands at the least, not to mention the Union Sunset Rail Company. Rail lines across Reach and Stormlands will also improve my standing with the local lords and make them more reluctant to go against my will.
Stannis's fire god is my main misgiving about backing him, yeah. I'm just not sure how early Melisandra got her hooks into him, or whether he could be persuaded this early on to take a different course.

If we can get Stannis behind technology rather than dark magic as the key to power, so much the better.
The war should end favorably for me, and quickly. As long as Reach, Stormlands, and Westerlands don't all unite against me, I don't think I'll lose. Seize King's Landing after Robert dies and place Stannis on the throne with Ned Stark as Hand. Detain Renly until I'm sure he won't go gallivanting off to raise the Stormlands and the Reach. In his absence, Stormlands will probably join Stannis and Reach might remain neutral. Stormlands, Riverlands, and North versus Tywin Lannister. Not an issue. Especially given the massive gun-armed private army I have and the tremendous mobility advantage my side gets.

Obviously, that is a pretty good scenario. Might not go that way. But I think I have enough advantage to win even if Stannis for some reason refuses to join me, or Renly gets away and fires up the Reach, or something else goes wrong.
Always have contingencies.
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals Sherman and Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"They are nearer to me than the other side, in thought and sentiment, though bitterly hostile personally. They are utterly lawless - the unhandiest devils in the world to deal with - but after all their faces are set Zion-wards."- Lincoln on radical Abolitionists.


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Re: You're in chare of Great Westeros Railways (RAR!)

Post by KraytKing » 2019-04-08 12:22pm

I wanted a little separation for my follow-up.

After the war ends, I want to develop Westeros into a capitalist hell so I can remake it in my vision. More power for me also means I'm better able to face the White Walker threat and the Dany...thing. Not sure if she's a threat or an ally. She seems to be pretty egalitarian in the books, but also naive and a serious proponent of monarchy. I support monarchy, but only of me. When it looks like I'm about to go, I'll dismantle my empire and distribute power to a new capitalist class.

I digress. When the war ends, I'm going to give myself more power. Before the war I have to be careful to make sure I can win the war, but now we're off the track and into a new future I can make for myself. First order of business will be to expand into the Westerlands and other areas I avoided. Build rail lines across Dorne to what few cities they have and set up desalinators at Sunspear to provide water for the desert kingdom. Continue to electrify the Seven Kingdoms. Get myself some titles, perhaps Lord of Harrenhal and a seat on the Small Council as Lord of Trains. Charge for electricity, but charge the lords rather than the smallfolk (not like the smallfolk could pay anyway). Pay for King's Landing myself, on good faith. And always, always be expanding. Lay more rails, double track old rails, build new manufacturing ability. Hire more people, build a more overt private army. Manufacture more firearms. Expand steamship fleet and run sailing ships out of business (that will take a long time). Make alliances with other capitalist entities like the Iron Bank. The Free Cities are opportunities, especially if the region is destabilized. Sell them cheaply manufactured swords and armor. Sell to Dany too.

And in Westeros my power grows. At this point I can probably dictate my will to the Small Council at least. Stannis might be a troublesome king just because he's so stiff necked. Renly would be better, but if I go with him then Stannis will send a shadow and everything will go to shit. Now that I think about it, gunpowder and steam engines offer a great opportunity for an unfortunate accident to claim his life. He goes to fire a new gun and it explodes in his hand. Goes for a train ride and it derails. Steamship explodes. Best option would be to have bandits tear up a section of rail and deliberately crash the train he's on when he goes on a royal tour of some sort. Go ahead and pack the car he's in with oil and nitroglycerin in the walls to be sure :D

I haven't really talked much about the Wall, but I'll definitely be building rails up there and putting soldiers there. If I electrify the Wall it will bring up the standard of living for the garrisons and increase effectiveness. I'll keep my own garrison up there as well.

Overall, profiteer as much as possible and bring Westeros to heel. Mix state and business ever more closely. Bring lords to personal loyalty with certain concessions. For instance, give Casterly Rock back to Kevan Lannister and offer cheap transportation between there and Lannisport. Expand mining operations in areas I want to control if there is another war, even if there isn't anything to mine. Just keep private armies in strategic areas. When Dany comes, deliver her the Seven Kingdoms whole. Anyone who fights, my men are already in place to seize control.

Dany and Stannis/Renly is going to be a bitch and a half. Neither is going to want to give up power. In the end, I'll support dragons if a compromise cannot be reached. They'll kill the White Walkers, and then I'll be home free. I can spend the rest of my days bringing Westeros up to modern societal standards.
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Re: You're in chare of Great Westeros Railways (RAR!)

Post by KraytKing » 2019-04-08 01:24pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-04-08 11:46am
I see no need to support the Red God. If memory serves, Stannis was forced into that business because he had no other way. If I support him from the start and Ned survives, he won't need it. I can't see the Tyrells supporting Renly if Stannis sits the throne and has the backing of the North and the Riverlands at the least, not to mention the Union Sunset Rail Company. Rail lines across Reach and Stormlands will also improve my standing with the local lords and make them more reluctant to go against my will.
Stannis's fire god is my main misgiving about backing him, yeah. I'm just not sure how early Melisandra got her hooks into him, or whether he could be persuaded this early on to take a different course.

If we can get Stannis behind technology rather than dark magic as the key to power, so much the better.
In the books, at least, Stannis was extremely reluctant regarding the Red God. He only resorted to it when his lords abandoned him. He only went with the shadow when his brother refused to subordinate to him. If neither of those happen, he won't have need of it.
The war should end favorably for me, and quickly. As long as Reach, Stormlands, and Westerlands don't all unite against me, I don't think I'll lose. Seize King's Landing after Robert dies and place Stannis on the throne with Ned Stark as Hand. Detain Renly until I'm sure he won't go gallivanting off to raise the Stormlands and the Reach. In his absence, Stormlands will probably join Stannis and Reach might remain neutral. Stormlands, Riverlands, and North versus Tywin Lannister. Not an issue. Especially given the massive gun-armed private army I have and the tremendous mobility advantage my side gets.

Obviously, that is a pretty good scenario. Might not go that way. But I think I have enough advantage to win even if Stannis for some reason refuses to join me, or Renly gets away and fires up the Reach, or something else goes wrong.
Always have contingencies.
Agreed. My contingency is pretty much brute force and technological advantage. The three northernmost kingdoms will be on my side in the war, almost for certain. Even if everyone but Dorne allies against me, I still have pretty good odds. I'll control King's Landing and my Northerner host can be at Casterly Rock before the Reach has even gathered an army. And a relatively small cadre of railroad mercenaries will have guns. THe only thing I really fear is Stannis and his dark magic, as I have no counter for that.
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Re: You're in chare of Great Westeros Railways (RAR!)

Post by KraytKing » 2019-04-08 06:23pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-04-03 02:38am

Also, wow, I just realized that Walder Frey is going to be fucking livid over the rail line, as I see that the main line goes right past the Twins, effectively neutralizing his strategic and economic importance. :D
Here's something I just thought of. What if you offer some sort of deal to Walder Frey? Give him rights to the bridge and to tax everything that passes through it. In exchange, I get something or other, I don't know what he has that I might want. But it doesn't leave him angry with me when the shit hits the fan. He's Walder Frey, so he won't like you, but it'll be easier if his whole family doesn't hate you. I still would like his men when the war kicks off.

Maybe giving him the bridge is too direct, he'll see it as patronizing. Instead I could raise the tax at that bridge sky high and build stations on either side so that most casual travelers elect to detour around through the Twins.
If you don't know your rights, you don't have any.
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Re: You're in chare of Great Westeros Railways (RAR!)

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-04-08 07:50pm

KraytKing wrote:
2019-04-08 06:23pm
The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-04-03 02:38am

Also, wow, I just realized that Walder Frey is going to be fucking livid over the rail line, as I see that the main line goes right past the Twins, effectively neutralizing his strategic and economic importance. :D
Here's something I just thought of. What if you offer some sort of deal to Walder Frey? Give him rights to the bridge and to tax everything that passes through it. In exchange, I get something or other, I don't know what he has that I might want. But it doesn't leave him angry with me when the shit hits the fan. He's Walder Frey, so he won't like you, but it'll be easier if his whole family doesn't hate you. I still would like his men when the war kicks off.

Maybe giving him the bridge is too direct, he'll see it as patronizing. Instead I could raise the tax at that bridge sky high and build stations on either side so that most casual travelers elect to detour around through the Twins.
Not giving him direct control of the bridge, no. His monopoly on North/South travel being broken is a good thing.
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals Sherman and Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"They are nearer to me than the other side, in thought and sentiment, though bitterly hostile personally. They are utterly lawless - the unhandiest devils in the world to deal with - but after all their faces are set Zion-wards."- Lincoln on radical Abolitionists.


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Re: You're in chare of Great Westeros Railways (RAR!)

Post by KraytKing » 2019-04-08 09:46pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-04-08 07:50pm
KraytKing wrote:
2019-04-08 06:23pm
The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-04-03 02:38am

Also, wow, I just realized that Walder Frey is going to be fucking livid over the rail line, as I see that the main line goes right past the Twins, effectively neutralizing his strategic and economic importance. :D
Here's something I just thought of. What if you offer some sort of deal to Walder Frey? Give him rights to the bridge and to tax everything that passes through it. In exchange, I get something or other, I don't know what he has that I might want. But it doesn't leave him angry with me when the shit hits the fan. He's Walder Frey, so he won't like you, but it'll be easier if his whole family doesn't hate you. I still would like his men when the war kicks off.

Maybe giving him the bridge is too direct, he'll see it as patronizing. Instead I could raise the tax at that bridge sky high and build stations on either side so that most casual travelers elect to detour around through the Twins.
Not giving him direct control of the bridge, no. His monopoly on North/South travel being broken is a good thing.
Well, of course, the caveat is that he can't stop me if I don't want to be stopped. It will be my men manning the bridge, not his. And if he tries to halt trade, I act on my authority as Lord of Trains and crush him for interdicting interkingdom commerce. If he doesn't back down, I burn his castle to the ground, kill his whole family, and make the lands property of the railroad.

Alright, that might be a little extreme to do before I win the war for Ned and build myself a real private army. I'll see what Robert has to say. If he seems likely to give me pretty free rein with the rails and the backing of the Crown when it comes to angry lords, then I don't have any risks and could gain quite a bit by giving Frey reason to rebel. If he is more restrictive, then I'll be more careful and keep hold of my assets.
If you don't know your rights, you don't have any.
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Re: You're in chare of Great Westeros Railways (RAR!)

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-04-08 10:07pm

KraytKing wrote:
2019-04-08 09:46pm
The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-04-08 07:50pm
KraytKing wrote:
2019-04-08 06:23pm


Here's something I just thought of. What if you offer some sort of deal to Walder Frey? Give him rights to the bridge and to tax everything that passes through it. In exchange, I get something or other, I don't know what he has that I might want. But it doesn't leave him angry with me when the shit hits the fan. He's Walder Frey, so he won't like you, but it'll be easier if his whole family doesn't hate you. I still would like his men when the war kicks off.

Maybe giving him the bridge is too direct, he'll see it as patronizing. Instead I could raise the tax at that bridge sky high and build stations on either side so that most casual travelers elect to detour around through the Twins.
Not giving him direct control of the bridge, no. His monopoly on North/South travel being broken is a good thing.
Well, of course, the caveat is that he can't stop me if I don't want to be stopped. It will be my men manning the bridge, not his. And if he tries to halt trade, I act on my authority as Lord of Trains and crush him for interdicting interkingdom commerce. If he doesn't back down, I burn his castle to the ground, kill his whole family, and make the lands property of the railroad.
Why kill them? Humanitarianism aside, there are a lot of Frey sons who could be supplying the Wall with badly-needed manpower. :twisted:
Alright, that might be a little extreme to do before I win the war for Ned and build myself a real private army. I'll see what Robert has to say. If he seems likely to give me pretty free rein with the rails and the backing of the Crown when it comes to angry lords, then I don't have any risks and could gain quite a bit by giving Frey reason to rebel. If he is more restrictive, then I'll be more careful and keep hold of my assets.
Yup. A lot depends on how the fat drunken oaf feels about you and the rail. But hey, if nothing else, the rail is a source of tax revenue that he can then blow on hookers, alcohol, feasts, and tournaments.

I'm actually hoping the butterfly effect keeps Robert alive a bit longer in this scenario, though. I mean, he's a shit king, but everything's going to go to hell the moment he kicks the bucket, and his death might mean losing Ned as Hand (though if Stannis comes in he'll probably appoint Ser Davos, which I can definitely live with).

Long-term, I want to parlay the strategic and economic power of the rail into a position in government. Not to make myself king- I have no real desire for the post and no claim to it. Overthrowing the monarchy and declaring a Republic is tempting, but probably too destabilizing to attempt with the White Walker invasion down the line. So I'm going to try to get the Rail established as an institution with a monopoly on mass transportation and public utilities (which I will greatly upgrade), subordinate to the Crown but with a degree of independence a la the Faith or the Maesters or the Night's Watch. Hopefully with a permanent Small Council seat ("Master of Engines" has a nice ring to it).

Edit: Hmm, Stannis was Master of Ships (basically a combination of admiral and Secretary of the Navy, yes?). That might be another way to win him over- explain/demonstrate to him the concept of an iron-clad steamship, and then let him figure out what it would mean for him to be the only lord on the planet with access to them.
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals Sherman and Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"They are nearer to me than the other side, in thought and sentiment, though bitterly hostile personally. They are utterly lawless - the unhandiest devils in the world to deal with - but after all their faces are set Zion-wards."- Lincoln on radical Abolitionists.


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Re: You're in chare of Great Westeros Railways (RAR!)

Post by KraytKing » 2019-04-08 10:15pm

Yeah, I think Robert is going to be pretty receptive to the idea. And Master of Engines does sound better than Lord of Trains.

I don't know about Robert staying alive, though. I suppose more time without war is more time for me to expand influence and build up my secret private army, so that's good. Plus more industry, more rails, more electricity. But it's also more time where I don't have a king who owes me his throne. Stannis isn't going to be cowed by owing me favors, but he's smart, and will probably see that he needs to listen to me like he does the Red Witch. And I want to hurry up and crush Lannisters, Stormlanders, and Tyrells if they're going to rebel so that I can safely expand operations and thus my monopolies into their lands. So maybe an extra year or two would be nice, but not much more.

There's also the consideration of what Westeros might try regarding Daenerys if it isn't embroiled in civil war and she's conquering Essos. Especially given Robert's opinion of Targaryens. I don't want to stray too far from the books, because my precognition is a significant advantage, especially given my lack of experience in politickin.
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Re: You're in chare of Great Westeros Railways (RAR!)

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-04-08 10:35pm

KraytKing wrote:
2019-04-08 12:22pm
I wanted a little separation for my follow-up.

After the war ends, I want to develop Westeros into a capitalist hell so I can remake it in my vision. More power for me also means I'm better able to face the White Walker threat and the Dany...thing. Not sure if she's a threat or an ally. She seems to be pretty egalitarian in the books, but also naive and a serious proponent of monarchy. I support monarchy, but only of me. When it looks like I'm about to go, I'll dismantle my empire and distribute power to a new capitalist class.
Dany in canon is the best option, I'd say (well, her or Jon), due to dragons and having a blood claim to the throne, plus her anti-slavery views and a chance to deal a blow to the patriarchy.

I wouldn't call her naive, exactly, but... unsubtle. She has one very powerful tool (dragons) on which all her other power is built, and it tends to be her go-to solution.

As to the runaway capitalism thing, I'm going a somewhat different route. Not sure where I fit on the spectrum- its not free enterprise, its not socialism. State-run company, I guess?
I digress. When the war ends, I'm going to give myself more power. Before the war I have to be careful to make sure I can win the war, but now we're off the track and into a new future I can make for myself. First order of business will be to expand into the Westerlands and other areas I avoided. Build rail lines across Dorne to what few cities they have and set up desalinators at Sunspear to provide water for the desert kingdom. Continue to electrify the Seven Kingdoms. Get myself some titles, perhaps Lord of Harrenhal and a seat on the Small Council as Lord of Trains. Charge for electricity, but charge the lords rather than the smallfolk (not like the smallfolk could pay anyway). Pay for King's Landing myself, on good faith. And always, always be expanding. Lay more rails, double track old rails, build new manufacturing ability. Hire more people, build a more overt private army. Manufacture more firearms. Expand steamship fleet and run sailing ships out of business (that will take a long time). Make alliances with other capitalist entities like the Iron Bank. The Free Cities are opportunities, especially if the region is destabilized. Sell them cheaply manufactured swords and armor. Sell to Dany too.
This is mostly good, if you can pull it off, but three points:

First, I see the Iron Bank more as competitor than ally. Especially since one of the things I'm going to be doing is trying to get Westeros' Crown out of debt to them.

Selling to Danny will have to be done illegally, under the table, unless she becomes Queen or you openly rebel against the Crown. Seeing as it would be high treason. :wink:

The whole "Harrenhall is cursed" thing might not be just superstition in a world with actual magic.
And in Westeros my power grows. At this point I can probably dictate my will to the Small Council at least. Stannis might be a troublesome king just because he's so stiff necked. Renly would be better, but if I go with him then Stannis will send a shadow and everything will go to shit. Now that I think about it, gunpowder and steam engines offer a great opportunity for an unfortunate accident to claim his life. He goes to fire a new gun and it explodes in his hand. Goes for a train ride and it derails. Steamship explodes. Best option would be to have bandits tear up a section of rail and deliberately crash the train he's on when he goes on a royal tour of some sort. Go ahead and pack the car he's in with oil and nitroglycerin in the walls to be sure :D
Stannis is not a pliable king (I plan to abandon him anyway when Danny invades, if she does so in this timeline, so as to have dragons to fight the undead rather than dragons burning my railways). But he is an honest king, more or less. He'll keep his bargains unless he has a compelling reason not to. He's not as good as Ned, because Stannis will betray anything and everything if he deems it necessary, but as long as I'm loyal and useful, I'm probably pretty safe with him. And if Stannis does go off the rails, Ned will probably turn on him too (Ned was willing to walk out on Robert over trying to assassinate Danny).

Melisandra needs to be dealt with, though. She's one of the very few threats in this world that riflemen can't stop. Will her visions let her see a sniper coming? I may have to put it to the test. Eliminating her will also force Stannis to seek other allies.
I haven't really talked much about the Wall, but I'll definitely be building rails up there and putting soldiers there. If I electrify the Wall it will bring up the standard of living for the garrisons and increase effectiveness. I'll keep my own garrison up there as well.
All good. Everything else is moot if White Walkers overrun the world.
Overall, profiteer as much as possible and bring Westeros to heel. Mix state and business ever more closely. Bring lords to personal loyalty with certain concessions. For instance, give Casterly Rock back to Kevan Lannister and offer cheap transportation between there and Lannisport. Expand mining operations in areas I want to control if there is another war, even if there isn't anything to mine. Just keep private armies in strategic areas. When Dany comes, deliver her the Seven Kingdoms whole. Anyone who fights, my men are already in place to seize control.

Dany and Stannis/Renly is going to be a bitch and a half. Neither is going to want to give up power. In the end, I'll support dragons if a compromise cannot be reached. They'll kill the White Walkers, and then I'll be home free. I can spend the rest of my days bringing Westeros up to modern societal standards.
I actually like Renly. He gets politics, and he knows how to win people over, and he's at least a little more progressive in his attitudes than many Westrosi lords. Plus he has Badass of Tarth on his side. But he has no claim to the throne beyond "I have an army", and backing him would mean fighting against Ned in King's Landing (and thus against the North and Tullys, as well as Stannis and the Lannisters). A quick coup in King's Landing after Robert dies, then putting Stannis on the throne with Ned's backing, is the surest path to a short war and minimal casualties.

It might not be necessary to kill him though, or even fight him. Is Renly going to be fool enough to make a bid for the throne that he has no chance of pulling off? In canon, there were many players vying for the throne, and the Tyrells plus some of the Stormlands gave him a sizeable army, able to compete with that of any of his competitors. He could plausible imagine winning that war, since he didn't know Stannis would be able or willing to have him assassinated by shadow monster. In this scenario, if I can pull of a coup in King's Landing, Stannis will have the backing of the North, likely the Tullys, plus probably Dragonstone and some of the Stormlands, and the Rail. The Vale too, if I can get them in the fight. The Tyrells alone aren't going to be enough. Unless he can get at least two of Dorne, the Lannisters, and the Greyjoys to back him, I don't like his chances, and neither will he.
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals Sherman and Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"They are nearer to me than the other side, in thought and sentiment, though bitterly hostile personally. They are utterly lawless - the unhandiest devils in the world to deal with - but after all their faces are set Zion-wards."- Lincoln on radical Abolitionists.


"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"-Terry Pratchett's DEATH.


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Re: You're in chare of Great Westeros Railways (RAR!)

Post by FaxModem1 » 2019-04-09 01:09am

I'm going to make my headquarters in the Reach. As a gay man, I'd rather be in a place that's rather tolerant of homosexuality rather than one in which they put you on trial for it. This is a region rather safe from raiders and with good relations all around.This will also give us a line into the breadbasket of Westeros, which will make sure that we will be fed, even if things go horribly wrong, such as warring nations. Specifically halfway between Honeyholt and Highgarden. There I'll build up our industry and make the Reach have better railways between cities, and even work to build city transportation, so people can ferry from place to place quickly.

The plan, on paper, is to have the Reach be a testbed for an integrated kingdom in which resources, people, and goods can travel quicker through a kingdom, with similar regional headquarters to pop up once the Reach is proven and any bugs are worked out. The real plan is to ensure that by the time the war starts, the Tyrells will be able to mobilize much quicker than any other kingdom when the war starts. This will also ingratiate me to the Tyrells, as I'm making their economy more efficient. I will also have my researchers work towards making the Printing Press, or if one is already with us, giving schematics to the Maesters. Then we can start education programs, ensuring that the Reach, and eventually the rest of Westeros, have basic education and literacy. This will also free up Maesters to do other work besides copying manuscripts all day, as millions of manhours will be saved due to printing.

If I can get all done before the events of A Game of Thrones, I start with Winterfell next, moving to make the Starks more powerful and working to pair the two great families together. If we get the Starks and the Tyrells together, we get the honor and goodness of the Starks mixed with the chivalry and smart plotting of the Tyrells. Best of both worlds, with myself as their Master of Transportation(I do like that title).

If not, I'll at least have built up the Reach to the point that food distribution should be a solid thing in Westeros during the long winter that is coming, and so starvation shouldn't be as much of a factor as it was.
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Re: You're in chare of Great Westeros Railways (RAR!)

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-04-09 02:07am

If you start blatantly favoring the Reach before the war starts, its going to alienate a lot of powerful people in King's Landing. You're also going to need a plan to prevent Stannis from offing Renly, if you're going to ally with the Reach.

The advantages of food distribution in the winter are a very good point though, and an argument for focusing on the Reach and North.
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"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals Sherman and Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"They are nearer to me than the other side, in thought and sentiment, though bitterly hostile personally. They are utterly lawless - the unhandiest devils in the world to deal with - but after all their faces are set Zion-wards."- Lincoln on radical Abolitionists.


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Re: You're in chare of Great Westeros Railways (RAR!)

Post by FaxModem1 » 2019-04-09 03:26am

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2019-04-09 02:07am
If you start blatantly favoring the Reach before the war starts, its going to alienate a lot of powerful people in King's Landing. You're also going to need a plan to prevent Stannis from offing Renly, if you're going to ally with the Reach.

The advantages of food distribution in the winter are a very good point though, and an argument for focusing on the Reach and North.
Hence the explanation about testing the system in the Reach before wasting resources elsewhere.

But you're right, Stannis and the Red Witch have to go.
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Re: You're in chare of Great Westeros Railways (RAR!)

Post by KraytKing » 2019-04-09 09:12am

A short war would be nice, but I can imagine a long war being good for me personally, and thus Westeros in the long run. A long war gives time for me to cement myself as the reason the victors are the victors, not their own skill. If I get myself a proper army, either through training one or hiring sellswords, then I can start taking land by force. I don't necessarily want to keep it, but it will certainly make me look stronger if I'm not just shuttling around the men who do the fighting. And maybe some rebellious lords I do want to annex into railroad holdings. Lannisport, for instance. Anything with coal or iron, to further cheapen production without looking like I'm stealing loot to the average lord, not like annexing gold mines would look.

On capitalism. When I say "capitalist hell," I mean a corporation controlling everything and effectively owning the government. This is hell to me. The reason I want it is because I don't like the Westerosi government stance on many social issues, so until I can replace them outright I'm going to give myself as much power as I can over them. My contingency is to distribute my holdings to a capitalist class because that is a little further along the development timeline than lords. My goal is to establish a socialist republic. To get there in my lifetime is going to require massive effort and concentrated power, so until I can put the proper steps in place to make sure the people have the will and power necessary, I want to be the ultimate say in everything. And that isn't going to be hard in the years following the war when I have professional soldiers stationed all over the realm with incredibly deadly weapons and a numerical advantage (probably).
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Re: You're in chare of Great Westeros Railways (RAR!)

Post by FaxModem1 » 2019-04-09 06:47pm

KraytKing wrote:
2019-04-09 09:12am
A short war would be nice, but I can imagine a long war being good for me personally, and thus Westeros in the long run. A long war gives time for me to cement myself as the reason the victors are the victors, not their own skill. If I get myself a proper army, either through training one or hiring sellswords, then I can start taking land by force. I don't necessarily want to keep it, but it will certainly make me look stronger if I'm not just shuttling around the men who do the fighting. And maybe some rebellious lords I do want to annex into railroad holdings. Lannisport, for instance. Anything with coal or iron, to further cheapen production without looking like I'm stealing loot to the average lord, not like annexing gold mines would look.

On capitalism. When I say "capitalist hell," I mean a corporation controlling everything and effectively owning the government. This is hell to me. The reason I want it is because I don't like the Westerosi government stance on many social issues, so until I can replace them outright I'm going to give myself as much power as I can over them. My contingency is to distribute my holdings to a capitalist class because that is a little further along the development timeline than lords. My goal is to establish a socialist republic. To get there in my lifetime is going to require massive effort and concentrated power, so until I can put the proper steps in place to make sure the people have the will and power necessary, I want to be the ultimate say in everything. And that isn't going to be hard in the years following the war when I have professional soldiers stationed all over the realm with incredibly deadly weapons and a numerical advantage (probably).
Only problem with any sort of war is that the White Walkers are coming, and the more dead that aren't burned are more reinforcements for the army north of the wall. As many bodies as possible to fight the threat of the magical zombies, the better.
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Re: You're in chare of Great Westeros Railways (RAR!)

Post by KraytKing » 2019-04-09 09:09pm

Here's a question for someone with more knowledge of economic history than I:

I've been treating this scenario like money will be infinite for me, thanks to my total monopoly on long-distance travel. But how much long-distance travel and large-scale cargo shipping would there actually be? How much of the product that comes to port needs to go to the interior, and how much from the interior needs to go to port? The only things I can really think of are food, coal, and iron, and I'm going to be the principal consumer of two of those.
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Re: You're in chare of Great Westeros Railways (RAR!)

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-04-10 02:04am

KraytKing wrote:
2019-04-09 09:12am
A short war would be nice, but I can imagine a long war being good for me personally, and thus Westeros in the long run. A long war gives time for me to cement myself as the reason the victors are the victors, not their own skill.
Or bleed the country dry, leaving it unable to support your rail lines and steam ships and power plants, and leaving it easy pickings for the White Walkers.
Sun Tzu wrote:There is no instance of a country having benefited from prolonged warfare.
If I get myself a proper army, either through training one or hiring sellswords, then I can start taking land by force. I don't necessarily want to keep it, but it will certainly make me look stronger if I'm not just shuttling around the men who do the fighting. And maybe some rebellious lords I do want to annex into railroad holdings. Lannisport, for instance. Anything with coal or iron, to further cheapen production without looking like I'm stealing loot to the average lord, not like annexing gold mines would look.

On capitalism. When I say "capitalist hell," I mean a corporation controlling everything and effectively owning the government. This is hell to me. The reason I want it is because I don't like the Westerosi government stance on many social issues, so until I can replace them outright I'm going to give myself as much power as I can over them. My contingency is to distribute my holdings to a capitalist class because that is a little further along the development timeline than lords.
The notion that there is a "development timeline" consisting of a series of steps that all civilizations must follow in order is a highly questionable one, at best.
My goal is to establish a socialist republic. To get there in my lifetime is going to require massive effort and concentrated power, so until I can put the proper steps in place to make sure the people have the will and power necessary, I want to be the ultimate say in everything. And that isn't going to be hard in the years following the war when I have professional soldiers stationed all over the realm with incredibly deadly weapons and a numerical advantage (probably).
Its going to be exceedingly difficult if you needlessly alienate all the lords and the Faith, and bleed the country dry into the bargain. All the technology in the world won't matter if there are no crops being harvested because they've all been burned by raiders, trampled by marching armies, or used to supply the armies into which all the farmers have been conscripted.
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals Sherman and Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"They are nearer to me than the other side, in thought and sentiment, though bitterly hostile personally. They are utterly lawless - the unhandiest devils in the world to deal with - but after all their faces are set Zion-wards."- Lincoln on radical Abolitionists.


"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"-Terry Pratchett's DEATH.


I am a dual citizen of the US and Canada.

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