What are your favorite fan theories (possible spoilers)?

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Re: What are your favorite fan theories (possible spoilers)?

Post by Batman » 2018-10-22 11:46pm

They have a lot more in the way of cures that muggles at the time did though
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Re: What are your favorite fan theories (possible spoilers)?

Post by Elheru Aran » 2018-10-23 01:39pm

Batman wrote:
2018-10-22 11:46pm
They have a lot more in the way of cures that muggles at the time did though
The question then becomes, I suppose, had they actually encountered smallpox and such? Because if the Native American magical population actually hadn't had a whole lot of contact with the European and Asian populations, it would make sense that they might not have treatments already for Muggle diseases they had never been exposed to. And by the time they're exposed to it, it rips through their population far too fast for any shamans and such to cook up an useful cure, while avoiding dying themselves.
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Re: What are your favorite fan theories (possible spoilers)?

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-10-23 03:39pm

Possibly, but we do see some evidence that wizards are less susceptible to certain things than Muggles such as greater durability to physical injuries, and Dumbledore and Harry discuss how Tom Riddle's mother Merope should have been able to save herself with magic.

This one really could go either way, barring a canon statement being made on the subject.

I think that even without disease, the Native wizards would probably still have ended up outnumbered and dominated by the Europeans, though, at least if we assume that a roughly equal percentage of the population is magical world wide, and that Muggleborns are integrated into the population of Wizarding America. Because Europe had higher population density than the Americans at the time, and Native Americans are a relatively tiny percentage of the Muggle population now. So they'd still have ended up the minority without the plagues, even if it might have taken longer than in the Muggle world.
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Re: What are your favorite fan theories (possible spoilers)?

Post by Elheru Aran » 2018-10-23 04:34pm

One way to look at that, then, I suppose, is to play up the cheesy old trope about how Native Americans are more 'spiritual' or connected to the natural world or whatever bollocks, and say that the majority of surviving Native Americans -were- the magical population... who were then largely eradicated by the Muggles in the course of American expansion. Intermarriage between Wizards and Muggle Natives in the reservations then diluted the wizarding population further, but there could potentially still be a higher percentage of Native wizards vs. muggles in the Native population.
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Re: What are your favorite fan theories (possible spoilers)?

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-10-23 05:41pm

Falls into racial clichés quite easily, as you noted, and I don't think it fits. If most Natives were wizards, I don't think they'd have been conquered.
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals William T. Sherman and Ulysses S Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"-Terry Pratchett's DEATH.


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Fuck Civility.

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Re: What are your favorite fan theories (possible spoilers)?

Post by Elheru Aran » 2018-10-24 01:32pm

*scratches head* I'm not quite sure I'm expressing myself well. I was thinking more along the lines of the plagues eradicate a large proportion of the Native muggles, and the surviving Natives are less well equipped to deal with the westward expansion because... I dunno, maybe they're fundamentally lacking an understanding of the emerging industrial world (which could reflect how the Natives never really developed any industry of their own, only trading for factory-made items like cloth, guns and metal), and are vulnerable to the classic 'cold iron'? Religious movements like the Ghost Dance, duly suppressed by the US military, might have been attempts to retaliate magically.

*shrugs* I'm sure that in due course there'll be a relevant Pottermore article for us to pick apart.

One thing that does come to mind is that given how little we know about non-English/European wizarding tradition... it's quite possible that Native magic was focused in a different direction. They might not have had combat magic in the same way they do in the HP books-- not having shield charms would explain being easily massacred by Muggles with guns, for example.
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Re: What are your favorite fan theories (possible spoilers)?

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-10-24 04:57pm

Eh, Potter-verse magic in general is far more geared towards infiltration/insurgency/subversion than direct combat, anyway. I think people focus way too much on "guns vs. wands" and less on the effects of properly applied concealment spells, invisibility cloaks, apparition, portkeys, mind-wipes, and mind-control. One competent Potterverse wizard with limited morals and enough imagination could put every major government on the planet under his personal control in a week, while remaining virtually untraceable even to other wizards. That is some terrifying shit.

If you are fighting as armies in the open field, as a Potterverse wizard, you've screwed up.
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals William T. Sherman and Ulysses S Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"-Terry Pratchett's DEATH.


I am a dual citizen of the United States and Canada.


Fuck Civility.

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Re: What are your favorite fan theories (possible spoilers)?

Post by Zaune » 2018-10-24 05:17pm

The Hiigarans did not completely obliterate the entire Khadeshi people and culture. (Come on, it's a massive sensor-blinding nebula, and why wouldn't they have built a few space habitats or colonised a planet or two in the last four thousand years?)
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Re: What are your favorite fan theories (possible spoilers)?

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-10-26 10:25pm

Not sure where this idea came from, but...

Buffy the Vampire Slayer: Amy murdered Tara.

In season six of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Tara was fatally shot by a stray bullet when Warren shot Buffy. It was a very random death, and I even read an argument (I think on TV Tropes) that the bullet could not have hit Tara given the angle Warren fired at. I have no idea if that's true or not, but it does lead to an interesting possibility:

-We know Amy has a fixation on Willow, and (from season seven) on the events surrounding the death of Tara and subsequently Warren- or at least she uses that trauma as part of a spell to get revenge on Willow.

-Its likely that Amy is jealous of Tara's relationship with Willow, and resents Willow's walking away from magic (and her) in part because of Tara.

-We know Amy was watching those events, IIRC (in the Buffy comics, she resurrected/saved Warren at the moment of his death).

So... who's to say that Amy didn't... give the bullet a little nudge?

The only thing that would potentially contradict that would be the fact that Willow could not resurrect Tara because she died a natural rather than a magical death. But I honestly don't know if a bullet aimed by magic would count as a magical or a natural death.
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals William T. Sherman and Ulysses S Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"-Terry Pratchett's DEATH.


I am a dual citizen of the United States and Canada.


Fuck Civility.

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Re: What are your favorite fan theories (possible spoilers)?

Post by Batman » 2018-10-26 10:53pm

There's nothing natural about being hit by a bullet but I guess it qualifies as 'not caused by magic'
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'

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Re: What are your favorite fan theories (possible spoilers)?

Post by Solauren » 2018-10-27 12:07pm

Batman wrote:
2018-10-26 10:53pm
There's nothing natural about being hit by a bullet but I guess it qualifies as 'not caused by magic'
To magical beings, anything done by the hands of a human, and not using magic, is probably 'natural'.
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Re: What are your favorite fan theories (possible spoilers)?

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-10-27 05:59pm

Yup. The general rule in the Buffy-verse (though it isn't very consistent) is that you can't bring someone back from the dead with magic (really bring them back, soul and all, as opposed to just raising a zombie or something) unless its a magical death.
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals William T. Sherman and Ulysses S Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"-Terry Pratchett's DEATH.


I am a dual citizen of the United States and Canada.


Fuck Civility.

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Re: What are your favorite fan theories (possible spoilers)?

Post by Batman » 2018-10-27 06:28pm

Pretty sure they DID bring back Buffy after she was shot and she had a lot less issues than she did after her s5 finale death which WAS magical and of her own volition to boot
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'

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Re: What are your favorite fan theories (possible spoilers)?

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-10-27 06:40pm

Batman wrote:
2018-10-27 06:28pm
Pretty sure they DID bring back Buffy after she was shot and she had a lot less issues than she did after her s5 finale death which WAS magical and of her own volition to boot
I haven't read all the comics, but I don't recall anything about Buffy being fatally shot. She had two canonical "deaths" in the show- once briefly by drowning in season one, where she was revived by CPR, and once by magic in season five, where she was brought back through necromancy by Willow.

She was shot by Warren in season six, but did not die IIRC, though Willow did pull some dark magic to heal her in the hospital. Is that what you were referring to?
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

-Generals William T. Sherman and Ulysses S Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"-Terry Pratchett's DEATH.


I am a dual citizen of the United States and Canada.


Fuck Civility.

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Re: What are your favorite fan theories (possible spoilers)?

Post by Batman » 2018-10-27 07:01pm

Pretty sure, yes. She might not have 'nominally' died but Willow had to pull a LOT of strings, and was what one might call seriously not happy when the same didn't work for Tara
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'

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Re: What are your favorite fan theories (possible spoilers)?

Post by Elheru Aran » 2018-10-27 07:04pm

One can probably safely assume though that the normal rules probably don't entirely apply to Buffy...
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