What are your favorite fan theories (possible spoilers)?

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Re: What are your favorite fan theories (possible spoilers)?

Post by Tribble » 2018-08-08 01:03pm

Voyager is destroyed just after the credits roll in the last episode, with Janeway being the sole survivor. This was either due to an accident or Janeway getting rid of all the witnesses to her antics, take your pick. The funny part is that we never actually see them get all the way back to Earth, or the aftermath of them doing so, so it fits.

Also, it's pretty much canon now that Janeway was suffering from some kind of mental disorder the entire time, which would explain a lot. Naturally I prefer Chucks version of events. :twisted:
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Re: What are your favorite fan theories (possible spoilers)?

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-08-08 01:22pm

Another Harry Potter one:

There are 49 seats on the Wizengamot.

The exact number is never stated in books or films to my recollections (maybe its up on Pottermore now though, for all I know). But Harry's description during his trial, and the screenshots of the Death Eater trials in the Goblet of Fire film, suggest a group of maybe a few dozen. It couldn't be much more than that, realistically, given the small size of the Wizarding population- not unless they had something like Athenian democracy, where everyone (or at least every member of the privileged class) could vote, and there's no evidence for that (for one thing, we never see representatives of various pure blood families Harry knows present in the court- which also tells against the "hereditary seats" fanon).

So, a few dozen, tops. And 49 fits because its 7x7, with 7 being a magically significant number in the Potterverse which is frequently featured in Wizarding institutions (seven Ministry departments, 7 floors in the Ministry, and of course seven Horcruxes are all examples IIRC). Plus, as an odd number, it would eliminate the risk of a tie vote (barring abstentions or absences).
"Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy." - Lincoln.

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Re: What are your favorite fan theories (possible spoilers)?

Post by Elheru Aran » 2018-08-08 01:25pm

I wonder if the amount of HP fanon is an attempt to fix issues within the series, logical inconsistencies, etc? Certainly seems like there's a LOT of it even with Pottermore et al. filling in many blanks...
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Re: What are your favorite fan theories (possible spoilers)?

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-08-08 01:40pm

Elheru Aran wrote:
2018-08-08 01:25pm
I wonder if the amount of HP fanon is an attempt to fix issues within the series, logical inconsistencies, etc? Certainly seems like there's a LOT of it even with Pottermore et al. filling in many blanks...
Partly its that, partly its just the shear size of the fandom, and the fact that the series' initial readers were a generation who pretty much grew up at the same time as internet fanfiction was becoming a big thing.

Edit: I mean, just look at FF.net- Harry Potter has the most stories of any fandom by leagues (well over half a million IIRC). Most of it is shitty shipping fic/fetish fic/angst-laden adolescent revenge/power fantasies, but there's some good stuff in there too, and there's just more of it because its such a large fandom. And sometimes a story will get a large enough audience that its ideas become widely-accepted in the fan community (this seems to have happened with Methods of Rationality, to the severe detriment of the overall quality of fanfic in my opinion).
"Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy." - Lincoln.

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Re: What are your favorite fan theories (possible spoilers)?

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-08-08 03:03pm

Buffy the Vampire Slayer:

-The Mayor was a Wolfram and Hart client. Demonically connected politician that close to LA? Almost has to be.

-Buffy being expelled/having to move to Sunnydale was due to Wolfram and Hart meddling. After all, there was no proof that Buffy burned down her school gym- if there had been, she'd have presumably been charged with arson. So why was she expelled, and why would NO school other than Sunnydale take her? The answer: Wolfram and Hart pressured/bribed/enchanted/blackmailed key officials in the LA school system, to ensure that she'd be sent to Sunndale. That way, she won't be killing clients of theirs' or messing with their headquarters in LA, and she'd be keeping the Hellmouth in check (Wolfram and Hart doesn't like anyone else's apocalypse interfering with their apocalypse).

-Donald Trump was a Wolfram and Hart client in the Buffyverse, but they dumped him (like that mobster in that one season one episode who tried to shoot up a police station) for being too erratic and incompetent and drawing too much attention.
"Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy." - Lincoln.

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Re: What are your favorite fan theories (possible spoilers)?

Post by FaxModem1 » 2018-08-08 05:42pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-08-08 03:03pm
-Buffy being expelled/having to move to Sunnydale was due to Wolfram and Hart meddling. After all, there was no proof that Buffy burned down her school gym- if there had been, she'd have presumably been charged with arson. So why was she expelled, and why would NO school other than Sunnydale take her? The answer: Wolfram and Hart pressured/bribed/enchanted/blackmailed key officials in the LA school system, to ensure that she'd be sent to Sunnydale. That way, she won't be killing clients of theirs' or messing with their headquarters in LA, and she'd be keeping the Hellmouth in check (Wolfram and Hart doesn't like anyone else's apocalypse interfering with their apocalypse).
That does make sense, aside from the only reason they moved to Sunnydale as opposed to anywhere else is Joyce's new job after the divorce. An alternate theory is that the Watchers manipulated the bureaucracy to get her to Sunnydale via Joyce's art dealer job in Sunnydale. And then they put Giles there, waiting for her to arrive as he did in the Wishverse. If there's one thing the Watchers seem to do, is manipulate bureaucracy in their favor.
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Re: What are your favorite fan theories (possible spoilers)?

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-08-08 06:07pm

That as well.

You could even combine the two theories. The Watchers' Council and Wolfram and Hart seem like natural enemies, yet there's little to no mention of them directly clashing. One theory is that they're in a sort of Cold War- in which case "The Slayer does not come within x-miles of Wolfram and Hart's headquarters", or something to that effect, might be standard practice. So the Council and Wolfram and Hart would both rather have Buffy in Sunnydale than starting a war in LA.
"Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy." - Lincoln.

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Re: What are your favorite fan theories (possible spoilers)?

Post by FaxModem1 » 2018-08-08 06:23pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-08-08 06:07pm
That as well.

You could even combine the two theories. The Watchers' Council and Wolfram and Hart seem like natural enemies, yet there's little to no mention of them directly clashing. One theory is that they're in a sort of Cold War- in which case "The Slayer does not come within x-miles of Wolfram and Hart's headquarters", or something to that effect, might be standard practice. So the Council and Wolfram and Hart would both rather have Buffy in Sunnydale than starting a war in LA.
Potentially supported by Canon, as Wesley and Rutherford Sirk made a sort of allusion to it:
WESLEY
Impressive. And does the Watcher's Council know you stole the only known copy of the codex when you left?
SIRK
There is no council.
WESLEY
(flips through the book) Not anymore, no. So you opted to, what, uh, play for the other side? Cross the line?
SIRK
These are complicated times. Lines become blurry. How did you know?
WESLEY
Something about Watchers and—(punches Sirk, knocking him out) libraries.
So, there did seem to be some sort of Cold War-ish line between them. But then we run into the problem of Wesley being generally ignorant of them until personally encountering them. It's quite possible that the Watchers were just out of touch, and didn't recognize the player on the board who was outpacing them in capability until it was too late.
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Re: What are your favorite fan theories (possible spoilers)?

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-08-08 06:32pm

Or that it was above Wesley's pay-grade, so to speak. Clearly some Watchers were aware of it. Wesley was a fairly junior Watcher when he was introduced, and pretty clearly got the Slayer assignment for toing the party line and possibly for having the right family connections, not for knowledge or experience.
"Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy." - Lincoln.

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Re: What are your favorite fan theories (possible spoilers)?

Post by Civil War Man » 2018-08-09 09:24am

Gandalf wrote:
2018-08-07 11:25pm
Indeed. I wonder if Average Wizard just thinks of themselves in such a position of privilege over the Muggle class that they never think to ask why they're all so keen on a government which holds such power.
Reminds me of that LBJ quote: "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." Just replace white man with Wizard and colored man with Muggle.
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2018-08-07 11:15pm
The weird thing is, you don't see much indication that the average wizard is terrified of the government coming to get them if they criticize Minister Fudge. They probably should be, given the presence of shit like Dementors and the seeming lack of effective checks and balances on the Minister's office, but we don't see it. Sure, you can put it down to shoddy world-building, but that's where I'm getting the "secret despotism via mind-control" idea from, basically.

The most powerful despotism is the one the people don't even know exists.
I'm now picturing the wizarding world as They Live. Somewhere near Diagon Alley, Rowdy Roddy Potter is fighting Keith David (can't think of a Harry Potter pun for the name, so I'm just declaring that Keith David is a wizard) in an attempt to force him to wear magic sunglasses that expose the corruption of the Ministry.

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Re: What are your favorite fan theories (possible spoilers)?

Post by NeoGoomba » 2018-08-09 01:02pm

Norm Macdonald had a great one about Breaking Bad:

Walt actually dies in the car he tried to steal, from a combination of his cancer making him weak/exposure to the elements in the final episode. Everything that we see afterwards, even the flash-forwards in earlier episodes, are his arrogant final flashes of how he WANTED his final days to go. Sneaking past Law Enforcement to see his daughter one last time, his poisoning of whatsherface with the ricin, and the implausible machinegun car to kill the neo-nazis and save Jesse.
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Re: What are your favorite fan theories (possible spoilers)?

Post by Q99 » 2018-08-10 03:20am

Elheru Aran wrote:
2018-08-08 01:25pm
I wonder if the amount of HP fanon is an attempt to fix issues within the series, logical inconsistencies, etc? Certainly seems like there's a LOT of it even with Pottermore et al. filling in many blanks...
A lot of it is there's plenty of fascinating world building in there, enough to form a strong skeleton, but with enough gaps that one wants to fill it in.


The two things I find to make a work highly talked about and expanded on in fanwork is worldbuilding, and characters developed enough that it's easy to imagine them in different situations.

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Re: What are your favorite fan theories (possible spoilers)?

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-08-10 01:08pm

Rowling is pretty good at characterization, most of the time. She's less so at logical and consistent world-building, but she created a setting with enough whimsy and style to be memorable, and enough intriguing gaps to give analysis-minded fans and fanfic writers endless fun trying to fill them.
"Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy." - Lincoln.

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Re: What are your favorite fan theories (possible spoilers)?

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-08-11 04:07pm

Not sure this is a "fan theory", so much as just an interpretation of canon, but:

Star Wars: In TLJ, Snoke talks about a champion from the Light Side of the Force inevitably rising up to meet the Dark Side champion that is Kylo Ren. Now, in the previous generation, we had Luke and Anakin/Vader. But Luke was not, in fact, the Light Side counterpart to Vader- he was the Light Side counterpart to Palpatine.

What lead me to this, in part, is how Luke ultimately wins his victories: he doesn't triumph through superior combat ability, but by understanding his opponents' psychology and emotional vulnerabilities, and using those to either turn them to his side, or turn their own weaknesses against themselves. So to does Palpatine, though Luke acts from a Light Side position, and Palpatine from a Dark Side position. If Palpatine had walked into the Senate or the Jedi Temple and pulled out a light saber, he would have killed a bunch of people- and then about a hundred Jedi masters and a thousand security guys would have descended on him and overwhelmed him through shear numbers. Palpatine won in the Prequels by understanding his opponents (and particularly Anakin's) emotional weaknesses, and using them to manipulate people. He didn't win through direct combat, but through psychological manipulation and political maneuvering augmented by the Force. Luke does the same, both at Endor, where he helps Vader find the good in himself and turn back to the Light Side, and in his last stand on Crait, where he exploits Kylo Ren's obsessions and insecurities to distract him and delay him, and does it in such a manner that his own death will inspire the galaxy and the Resistance while humiliating Kylo in front of his subordinates. In other words, he goes for a psychological victory to achieve what he cannot through raw power and direct combat. But whereas Palpatine manipulates people in order to corrupt them, Luke either tries to bring out the best in them, or turn their own weaknesses against themselves. In this, he is a Light Side counterpart to Palpatine.

This exchange from RotJ is particularly telling, to me:

Luke: "Your overconfidence is your weakness."

Palpatine: "Your faith in your friends is your's."


Both men understand their adversary's psychological vulnerabilities, and attempt to exploit them.

So where does Anakin, as the Chosen One, come into this? He was originally a champion of the Light Side meant to face Palpatine, but he fell. The Light Side found a new champion in Luke, while Vader by RotJ he was straddling the line between Light and Dark, torn between the Champion of the Light and the Champion of Darkness, and which way he ultimately went determined which side ultimately won. Luke and Palpatine were the avatars of the Light and Darkness in that battle. Vader's soul was the battleground.
"Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy." - Lincoln.

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Re: What are your favorite fan theories (possible spoilers)?

Post by FaxModem1 » 2018-08-11 05:17pm

That tracks rather well, as in the Disney Canon, the only scene we see with Luke in Battlefront 2 is to talk to Del Meeko, help him realize that he is a good person, and say that he has a choice. This leads Meeko to convince Iden to leave the Empire, and both become heroes of the New Republic/Rebellion. All because Luke is someone who analyses people, and takes the correct and moral way to get them to do the right thing. Well, unless its his nephew, then he's totally gonna kill the kid in his sleep.
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Re: What are your favorite fan theories (possible spoilers)?

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-08-11 05:24pm

FaxModem1 wrote:
2018-08-11 05:17pm
That tracks rather well, as in the Disney Canon, the only scene we see with Luke in Battlefront 2 is to talk to Del Meeko, help him realize that he is a good person, and say that he has a choice. This leads Meeko to convince Iden to leave the Empire, and both become heroes of the New Republic/Rebellion. All because Luke is someone who analyses people, and takes the correct and moral way to get them to do the right thing. Well, unless its his nephew, then he's totally gonna kill the kid in his sleep.
Depending on whether you believe Luke or Kylo's version of events, Luke never actually decided to go through with it. Its was an impulse in a moment of fear that he spent the rest of his life regretting. It is out of step with the Luke we see both at Endor and on Craite, and the one you described from Battlefront 2, but its a believably human mistake. Imagine being in Luke's shoes, weighed down with the burden of training a new Jedi Order but at least believing the darkness of the Empire is behind you, then realizing that history is repeating itself and that the students in your care are going to be the first to suffer, and that you could stop it all with just one push of a button. If you went back in time (or lived at the time and could see the future) and could kill baby Hitler, would you?

It was a terribly wrong impulse, but it is, to me, an understandable one, that just for a moment, he would be tempted. And it underlines the subtle threat of the Dark Side, how even someone as wise and good and experienced as Master Luke Skywalker could be tempted. As Yoda said: Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to the Dark Side.

Edit: I think the problem with the film here is that we just get this one brief flashback- we don't see how Luke went from the man who redeemed Vader on Endor to the man who considered murdering his nephew in cold blood. So its a very jarring transition.
"Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy." - Lincoln.

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