Buffy the Vampire Slayer is getting a sequel.

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Buffy the Vampire Slayer is getting a sequel.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-07-27 07:36pm

Been a lot of rumors floating around lately, but last week Fox confirmed it: "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" is returning.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/22/entertai ... index.html
(CNN) - Buffy lives.

The supernatural drama "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" will be getting a reboot with an African-American actress in the lead role, a Fox 21 Television Studios spokesperson confirmed to CNN.

"Like our world, it will be richly diverse, and like the original, some aspects of the series could be seen as metaphors for issues facing us all today," producers on the project told Deadline, which first reported news of the "Buffy" reboot.

Based on the 1992 film of the same name, "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" originally ran from 1996 to 2003 on WB and later UPN.

Sarah Michelle Gellar starred in the title role as Buffy Summers.

No actors have been cast in the series reboot yet.

Showrunner Monica Owusu-Breen has signed on to oversee the project. Director Joss Whedon, who created original series, will return to executive produce.

In addition to Gellar, "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" catapulted the careers of actors David Boreanaz, Alyson Hannigan, Charisma Carpenter, Nicholas Brendon, James Marsters and Anthony Stewart Head.

It's unclear if any of the original cast members will be part of the new project.
In response to fan backlash, the new showrunner has since confirmed on Twitter that it will be a sequel, not a remake, focusing on a new Slayer:

https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/26/1761 ... fray-comic
Monica Owusu Breen wrote:For some genre writers it's Star Wars.

Buffy the Vampire Slayer is my Star Wars.

Before I became a writer, I was a fan. For seven seasons, I watched Buffy Summers grow up, find love, kill that love. I watched her fight, and struggle and slay.

There is only one Buffy. One Xander, one Willow, Giles, Cordelia, Oz, Tara, Kendra, Faith, Spike, Angel... They can't be replaced. Joss Whedon's brilliant and beautiful series can't be replicated. I wouldn't try to.

But here we are, twenty years later...
And the world seems a lot scarier.
So maybe, it could be time to meet a new Slayer...

And that's all I can say.
Perhaps this will appease the knee-jerk anti-reboot crowd (though I doubt it). Personally, though, from the point of view of someone worrying that the new show will "ruin" the original, I'd think a remake would be preferable, as it would be its own separate continuity, while a remake could damage the original series' canon retroactively. I will say that Breen being a long-time fan doesn't make me feel reassured at all- the opposite, actually. Hard-core fans bring baggage and axes to grind and rose-tinted glasses. What's important is not that the show runner is a fan- its that they're a competent professional. As to whether that's true of Breen, I can't say.

I'm also worried that they didn't make this clear in the initial release. I already feel like they're half-assing the PR on this, though of course that says nothing about the ultimate quality of the show.

Beyond that issue, I have a few thoughts.

First, lets' get this out of the way now: Yes, some people will whine about "SJWs ruining it" because they're casting a black woman. But let's be honest: Buffy (more than most) was never an "a-political" show, and while it is rather behind the times now, it was an icon for feminism and the LGBT community in its day. So if you're the sort of person who's scared by progressive casting, this is not and was never the franchise for you.

Secondly, I'm curious as to whether Buffy will appear in the show at all (I don't see how they can call it "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" if there's no Buffy). Personally, I'd love an older Buffy in the Watcher/Mentor role to a new slayer. But Gellar has been at best ambivalent over the years about whether she'd be interested in reprising the role.

Third, I'm curious as to the extent of Whedon's involvement. Apparently he's on board as executive producer, but not as showrunner, and IIRC, executive producer can mean anything from "Main controlling influence behind the project" to "Cashes a paycheque for lending their permission/name to the project". Now, Whedon's reputation has been somewhat tarnished of late, due to the mixed response to Age of Ultron and his falling out with Marvel (in my opinion largely undeserved), and (much more deservedly) due to the accusations from his ex-wife that he used his feminist politics as a cover for cheating on her:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/mor ... ef66f989c2

However, he's still a talented writer and director, its still his world, and a number of the cast have previously made it clear they'd have no interest in a return without Whedon.

Well, I'll be following this with interest, though I do wish it was being made by any network other than the Quisling Corporation- um, Fox.

Also, I feel like this is probably a make-or-break moment for Whedon. As I noted above, his reputation has suffered lately, and he's had no major project since Avengers: Age of Ultron, which received mixed reviews, and his subsequent break with Marvel. If they pull this off, he might restore some of his old reputation. If not, then this will probably be the last nail in the coffin of his career.
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Re: Buffy the Vampire Slayer is getting a sequel.

Post by Jub » 2018-07-27 07:45pm

The ruined the series ship has already sailed, at least to some extent, with the comics. Diehards will watch anyway and their bitching should be disregarded and the average fan probably only has vague memories of the original unless they've binged it recently. Worst case it comes and goes or is so bad we get a hard reboot in a decade and honestly that's not so bad for a show that's already had a long life.

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Re: Buffy the Vampire Slayer is getting a sequel.

Post by FaxModem1 » 2018-07-27 08:04pm

I wonder if they'll disregard the comics completely, take things from the comics and make them canon, or be utter slaves to things from the comics(such as Vampire reality shows and Mecha-Dawn).

Personally, I'd prefer if they made it a new slayer, but keep what they can of the old series. The New Slayer line has been activated, and whoever this new slayer is one of them. However, if they want to make this some sort of alternate universe, in which Buffy never activated every slayer in the world, that could work. At the ire of a lot of fans, but it could work.
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Re: Buffy the Vampire Slayer is getting a sequel.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-07-27 08:24pm

Jub wrote:
2018-07-27 07:45pm
The ruined the series ship has already sailed, at least to some extent, with the comics. Diehards will watch anyway and their bitching should be disregarded and the average fan probably only has vague memories of the original unless they've binged it recently. Worst case it comes and goes or is so bad we get a hard reboot in a decade and honestly that's not so bad for a show that's already had a long life.
My view is that some of the comics are good, some are awful, but there's a sense of distance between them and the show due to their being in different mediums and the comics being more low-profile which allows show fans to ignore them if they don't like them. A television sequel that messed with the setting or characters would be much harder to just ignore.

Agreed that a hard reboot wouldn't be a terrible thing. But the fan in me wants to see the old gang in action one more time. Hell, even just Gellar. Just let me watch Buffy kick ass on-screen one more time.
FaxModem1 wrote:
2018-07-27 08:04pm
I wonder if they'll disregard the comics completely, take things from the comics and make them canon, or be utter slaves to things from the comics(such as Vampire reality shows and Mecha-Dawn).

Personally, I'd prefer if they made it a new slayer, but keep what they can of the old series. The New Slayer line has been activated, and whoever this new slayer is one of them. However, if they want to make this some sort of alternate universe, in which Buffy never activated every slayer in the world, that could work. At the ire of a lot of fans, but it could work.
I actually think running with the comics' setting where magic is now open public knowledge could be really interesting- the Masquerade had already grown very thin by the later seasons of Buffy and Angel in any case.

Much of the comics can be ignored without direct contradiction, though, since IIRC the comics cover a few years (they're up to "season eleven" now, I think) immediately after the show. Whereas we're now 15 years later, with the cast having aged accordingly. So you could slot the comics in-between the two shows without much difficulty, I expect.

The one thing I will not tolerate, though, is de-aged Giles. Its... not too awful in the comics, but if you bring it back to television, why in God's name would you deliberately write Anthony Head out of the show? Especially since he's pretty much the only main cast member who has been consistently enthusiastic about the prospect of returning.
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Re: Buffy the Vampire Slayer is getting a sequel.

Post by Majin Gojira » 2018-07-27 09:27pm

Okay, I have to come forward as a hardcore Buffy fan. As in, I got deep into the philosophical analysis of the show that sprouted up at the time. I also own and have played the RPG (pretty good system, actually).

When I first heard about it, it was as a reboot, my only qualm was the new Buffy would be living in the shadow of the old Buffy. And that has some unfortunate implications with how they planned on casting Buffy this time around.

So, I'm glad it's a sequel series rather than a reboot.

As to the comics, they definitely have their ups and downs, the main down being how the Masquarade was broken and the general reaction to it. I'm sorry, but America is far too fundamentalist these days to openly accept vampires who react badly to religious objects as a positive thing.

That and a celebrity killing and eating someone on stage and getting away with it is unbelievable even for this series.

But it got better after that, but yeah, it got bad early on.

However, there's an added wrinkle to this which is screaming to me that the comics are not going to matter if this thing goes to series. The current story arc is tied into the comic series Fray, which is about a slayer hundreds of years in the future in a time when there hasn't been magic or monsters for ages, and it hints that Buffy and her friends may have had their big battle and ended all magic.

Which, in the comics, would be "Again" because comics.

But yeah, that final battle seems to be happening now.

Also, Dark Horse is losing the license to publish Buffy comics. It's going over to IDW (which had Angel for a time, and did a really sweet "Angel: After the Fall" comic).

Given all that, I doubt any of the comic shenanigans will matter.
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Re: Buffy the Vampire Slayer is getting a sequel.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-07-27 09:45pm

I mostly agree with that, though I do think that having magic be open knowledge would be a refreshing shift from yet another Masquerade show, and would fit better with the direction things were going at the end of the series.

I think that focusing on a new Slayer is also the right move as far as it goes. Mostly because bringing back the old cast is likely to be impossible. A number of them have ruled out coming back (Marsters and Boreanaz due to age and them playing unaging characters, Gellar has flip-flopped on the subject), and sadly, I doubt whether a studio will want to cast Nicholas Brendan, especially in a major role, given his recent history.

If it was me, I'd focus on a new Slayer, try to write Gellar a big enough check to get her back and have Buffy in the mentor/Watcher role, probably make Dawn a regular/semi-regular too (if Trachtenberg is willing to come back) because I can't see Buffy ever cutting ties with her sister, and bring the others back in occasional guest star roles or not, as practicality dictates.
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Re: Buffy the Vampire Slayer is getting a sequel.

Post by bilateralrope » 2018-07-28 01:51am

I'm hoping they go with the masquerade being broken. Having it intact in the age of smartphones is just too much of a suspension of disbelief breaker for me.

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Re: Buffy the Vampire Slayer is getting a sequel.

Post by Gandalf » 2018-07-28 02:31am

If they go down the route of magic the whole supernatural world being public knowledge, then the lives of a few people who fight them will be the least interesting part. Paranoia about the human looking demons who prey on people will drive people to batshit insanity. Once governments get involved, every country will have their own version of The Initiative, but in this case it can be far more resourced. Billions of people are going to have various crises of faith when they see absurd supernatural things which fly in the face of their beliefs. What happens when some people get their hands on magic books, and use it for their varied own ends? Essentially a lot of less comical versions of the guys from season six.

It'll be absolute pandemonium, and probably the better story then someone who can punch vampires well.
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Re: Buffy the Vampire Slayer is getting a sequel.

Post by Majin Gojira » 2018-07-28 07:40am

And that can work towards the whole monsters-as-metaphores thing they did in the original series.

On a related note, how do modern supernatural shows keep the secret with smartphones being a regular thing? I haven't watched Supernatural since Season 4, (I was off and on for a spatt, but I honestly hate its mythology for how it treats ... damn near everything non-Christian) and I haven't given others (Teen Wolf, Shadowhunters, etc.) much of a chance.

The last ones I did give a look were "Stan Against Evil" and "Wynonna Earp" which both lost me for having regular mook-monsters have "Only object X can defeat it" being far, far too specific. At least when "Reaper" did it, it was part of the 'joke' as it were.

That said and I'm waiting on "Wellington Paranormal" (the TV followup to "What We Do In Shadows") to get a stateside release because it looks amazing!
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Re: Buffy the Vampire Slayer is getting a sequel.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-07-28 01:30pm

Gandalf wrote:
2018-07-28 02:31am
If they go down the route of magic the whole supernatural world being public knowledge, then the lives of a few people who fight them will be the least interesting part. Paranoia about the human looking demons who prey on people will drive people to batshit insanity. Once governments get involved, every country will have their own version of The Initiative, but in this case it can be far more resourced. Billions of people are going to have various crises of faith when they see absurd supernatural things which fly in the face of their beliefs. What happens when some people get their hands on magic books, and use it for their varied own ends? Essentially a lot of less comical versions of the guys from season six.

It'll be absolute pandemonium, and probably the better story then someone who can punch vampires well.
It would indeed be chaos, though you still have room to explore how the Slayers adapt-or fail to adapt-to that changing world. Being targeted as monsters in some places (by fundamentalists or by government forces who want to control or experiment on them), being recruited in others. There's lots of room to explore issues relating to prejudice and authoritarianism there.

Kind of a lot like X-men, but perhaps that's fitting- IIRC, one of the inspirations for Buffy according to Whedon was X-men. In this case, though, it becomes less of a paranormal mystery/conspiracy setting and more of a superhero setting, where the strange coexists openly alongside the ordinary world. But then, superhero fiction seems to be where the money is these days, anyway.
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Re: Buffy the Vampire Slayer is getting a sequel.

Post by Jub » 2018-07-28 02:07pm

Majin Gojira wrote:
2018-07-28 07:40am
And that can work towards the whole monsters-as-metaphores thing they did in the original series.

On a related note, how do modern supernatural shows keep the secret with smartphones being a regular thing? I haven't watched Supernatural since Season 4, (I was off and on for a spatt, but I honestly hate its mythology for how it treats ... damn near everything non-Christian) and I haven't given others (Teen Wolf, Shadowhunters, etc.) much of a chance.

The last ones I did give a look were "Stan Against Evil" and "Wynonna Earp" which both lost me for having regular mook-monsters have "Only object X can defeat it" being far, far too specific. At least when "Reaper" did it, it was part of the 'joke' as it were.

That said and I'm waiting on "Wellington Paranormal" (the TV followup to "What We Do In Shadows") to get a stateside release because it looks amazing!
I have no idea how they do it but the Dresden files, where magic and thus many things supernatural, has attempts to film magic turn out blurry and unwatchable. Vampires and other critters work, to various degrees, to stay hidden and the fey literally live in another dimension that they can easily return to as needed. It's not perfect but you can at least buy how your average joe thinks Bigfoot is a myth.

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Re: Buffy the Vampire Slayer is getting a sequel.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-07-28 02:10pm

Honestly, I think people overestimate the impact of smartphones.

If you saw a video of, say, Bigfoot on someone's smartphone, would your first response be "Bigfoot is real"? More likely, it would be something like "Yeah, that's a clever hoax". You'd probably assume that it was CGI or something.

I mean yeah, if a magical slug-fest occurs in the middle of Time Square on New Year's or something, there's no covering that up. But unless there are a lot of witnesses or unambiguous physical evidence, even good-quality video can be dismissed easily enough.

Edit: The Buffyverse is also a setting in which mass memory alteration and reality-warping spells are a thing. Off the top of my head: Jonathan's paragon spell in season four, Dawn's existence in season five, and Connor's new identity over on season four/five of Angel.
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Re: Buffy the Vampire Slayer is getting a sequel.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-07-28 02:18pm

IIRC, the impression I got from later seasons of Buffy and Angel was that magic was sort of an open secret- not officially acknowledged, most people didn't like to talk about it, but anyone who paid the least bit of attention to the world around them knew the score. Two examples off the top of my head:

In Buffy season seven, some random musician is playing in the Bronze when Spike stakes a vampire in front of everyone. As she's leaving, she can be heard mentioning that she hates playing vampire towns.

In Angel season five, there's a mention of the LA DA's office employing counter-magic to prevent Wolfram and Hart from witness tampering, which I always thought was one of the most bad ass things I've ever heard. I kind of want a one-shot story about the heroic DA who hired wizards to take on Wolfram and Hart. :D
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Re: Buffy the Vampire Slayer is getting a sequel.

Post by Jub » 2018-07-28 02:55pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-07-28 02:10pm
Honestly, I think people overestimate the impact of smartphones.

If you saw a video of, say, Bigfoot on someone's smartphone, would your first response be "Bigfoot is real"? More likely, it would be something like "Yeah, that's a clever hoax". You'd probably assume that it was CGI or something.

I mean yeah, if a magical slug-fest occurs in the middle of Time Square on New Year's or something, there's no covering that up. But unless there are a lot of witnesses or unambiguous physical evidence, even good-quality video can be dismissed easily enough.

Edit: The Buffyverse is also a setting in which mass memory alteration and reality-warping spells are a thing. Off the top of my head: Jonathan's paragon spell in season four, Dawn's existence in season five, and Connor's new identity over on season four/five of Angel.
Even lots of magical slug fests get covered up. Witnesses tend to believe whatever fits their worldview, police and government officials might be bought and paid for to cover up magic or simply not even consider it a possibility. You try to look at records to get a better idea but when none of your video evidence can be relied on to prove things one way or the other you get a mess which means most people think it's a hoax, terrorist attack, or whathave you.

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Re: Buffy the Vampire Slayer is getting a sequel.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-07-28 03:03pm

That actually raises an interesting question. Excuse me while I go post a new thread.
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Re: Buffy the Vampire Slayer is getting a sequel.

Post by bilateralrope » 2018-07-29 12:25am

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-07-28 02:10pm
Honestly, I think people overestimate the impact of smartphones.

If you saw a video of, say, Bigfoot on someone's smartphone, would your first response be "Bigfoot is real"? More likely, it would be something like "Yeah, that's a clever hoax". You'd probably assume that it was CGI or something.
One video can be explained away. Multiple videos of the same event are a bit harder. As are videos of multiple events.

But smartphones don't just bring video. They bring the possibility of livestreaming the events.

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Re: Buffy the Vampire Slayer is getting a sequel.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-07-30 06:00pm

So, just for fun, who would you most like to see cast in the new series?
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Re: Buffy the Vampire Slayer is getting a sequel.

Post by Gandalf » 2018-07-30 06:15pm

While not casting, I hope Whedon is nowhere near it.
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Re: Buffy the Vampire Slayer is getting a sequel.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-07-30 06:32pm

Gandalf wrote:
2018-07-30 06:15pm
While not casting, I hope Whedon is nowhere near it.
As noted in the OP, Whedon is reportedly signed on as executive producer, but not as showrunner- so its unclear how much of a role Whedon will play in the day-to-day writing and direction of the show.

At the same time, not having Whedon might hurt the show more than it would help. I have considerable misgivings about Whedon myself, but there is probably still a significant portion of the fanbase that would reject any continuation of the show without Whedon. Perhaps more significantly, a number of the cast have previously stated that they would oppose a reboot without Whedon's involvement, which means losing Whedon might limit which actors/characters you can get back.

Best thing to do, in my opinion, is probably to kick him upstairs- hire him on in a consultant-type role, he gets his name in the credits and a nice paycheque, but has little actual final control over how the show is run.
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Re: Buffy the Vampire Slayer is getting a sequel.

Post by Majin Gojira » 2018-07-31 09:02am

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-07-30 06:32pm
Best thing to do, in my opinion, is probably to kick him upstairs- hire him on in a consultant-type role, he gets his name in the credits and a nice paycheque, but has little actual final control over how the show is run.
That seems to be the case since he is not showrunner but listed as an executive producer (though that still affords him more influence than an EP in a film would due to the nature of TV)
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