Yet Another X In Westeros! (Discworld)

FAN: Discuss various fictional worlds that don't qualify for SF.

Moderator: Steve

Post Reply
User avatar
Majin Gojira
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5834
Joined: 2002-08-06 11:27pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Yet Another X In Westeros! (Discworld)

Post by Majin Gojira » 2018-04-30 01:24pm

There's been a lot of threads lately inserting people into Westeros, but let's go with something a bit bigger and more elaborate.

Because of a magical accident, the proud city of Ankh-Morpork as well as the surrounding country it controls, find itself slammed right into Westeros, fitting neatly in, by shoving the Reach in half and then some, stretching things out to make room for the newcomer. The city itself sits neatly on the Sea Road, and because of the nature of its magical intrusion onto this Roundworld, the maps trade routes have already been adjusted to reflect this change, but beyond the placement of it, nothing else has.

It has always been there, but that wasn't so yesterday.

Other things are changing as well for both Westeros and Ankh-Morpork. The magical influx generally weakens available magic for a time, but it will rebuild faster there than in other parts of the world. While comparatively, the rest of the world sees a boost in overall magic and magical things. Other laws from the Disk begin swiftly intruding as well. While the Law of Conservation of Reality seems to have loosened its grip somewhat, the law of narrative causality seems to have been unaffected in Ankh-Morpork and is growing in power around it (compared to what it was before, though not near Ankh-Morpork's levels at first).

Now, here comes the fun part: the whens and politics of it.

Type 1): The City drops in after Feet of Clay and the start of the First Season/Game of Thrones.

Type 2): The City drops in after Raising Steam and the start of the most recent season.

Type 3): The City drops in after Feet of Clay and the start of the most recent season.

Type 4) The City drops in after Raising Steam and at the start of the first season/Game of Thrones.

How does the city fare in Westeros? How does Westeros fare in the face of a city whose national anthem includes the phrase "We own your armies."?
ISARMA: Daikaiju Coordinator: Just Add Radiation
Justice League- Molly Hayes: Respect Hats or Freakin' Else!
Browncoat
Supernatural Taisen - "[This Story] is essentially "Wouldn't it be awesome if this happened?" Followed by explosions."

Reviewing movies is a lot like Paleontology: The Evidence is there...but no one seems to agree upon it.

"God! Are you so bored that you enjoy seeing us humans suffer?! Why can't you let this poor man live happily with his son! What kind of God are you, crushing us like ants?!" - Kyoami, Ran

User avatar
Crazedwraith
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10286
Joined: 2003-04-10 03:45pm
Location: Cheshire, England

Re: Yet Another X In Westeros! (Discworld)

Post by Crazedwraith » 2018-04-30 01:40pm

I guess the really big issue here is just how much effect narrative causality can have. AM has no armies just huge and unspecificed economic pull on the Disc.

But NC means the good guys win... eventually. In AM yhats means Vetinari/The Watch/The Wizards chiefly.

Vetinari's shtick would be to remain neutral and play people off each other at first. Proximity and likeness of attitude would team him up with Tywin at first but he would turn against him and help the starks/targs triumph in the end, depending on who NC decides is the real good guys.
To the brave passengers and crew of the Kobayashi Maru... sucks to be you - Peter David

User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 14186
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Yet Another X In Westeros! (Discworld)

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-04-30 02:45pm

My three big questions regarding the OP are:

1. When you say that Ank Morpork has always been there- what does that mean exactly? Does that mean that the entire timeline has been rewritten to account of AM's long-term presence. Because the ripple effects of that might make both settings unrecognizeable.

2. When you say AM and the lands it controls... what does that entail? IIRC, AM controls little territory outside of the city itself officially, but wields a great deal of political influence over the kingdoms of the Sto plains (and to a lesser extent beyond), at least Vetinari and the Watch under Vimes take control.

3. If Discworld magic is in play, does that mean we're going to get things like the Creatures from the Dungeon Dimensions, the Auditors of Reality, and DEATH showing up?

Hmm, DEATH would probably get overworked if he had to deal with Westeros. :wink:
Crazedwraith wrote:
2018-04-30 01:40pm
I guess the really big issue here is just how much effect narrative causality can have. AM has no armies just huge and unspecificed economic pull on the Disc.

But NC means the good guys win... eventually. In AM yhats means Vetinari/The Watch/The Wizards chiefly.
With the definition of "good guys", being somewhat flexible, yes.
Vetinari's shtick would be to remain neutral and play people off each other at first. Proximity and likeness of attitude would team him up with Tywin at first but he would turn against him and help the starks/targs triumph in the end, depending on who NC decides is the real good guys.
He and Tywin are superficially similar (and similar appearance-wise, if this is TV-verse), but fundamentally very different in outlook. Vetinari seeks order (or at least to productively channel chaos) for the greater good, even if he's too cynical and cryptic to state it that bluntly. Tywin is all about the prestige of House Lannister. Vetinari doesn't have a family, and would probably would be more pragmatic about it if he was.

Also, Tywin indulges in excessive brutality in order to make people fear him. Vetinari... doesn't, as a rule. Vetinari's not soft- I can imagine him ordering a kid killed if he truly felt that it was necessary to preserve the peace (well, he would if not for the fact that that's one of the few things that would probably cause Vimes to go all-out against him), But if Vetinari wants you dead, it'll probably happen quietly (or he'll just point the Watch at you and let you hang). The murder of the royal family in the sack of King's Landing would probably appall Vetinari, if only because of the gratuitous cruelty and brutality of the assassins. Remember, Vetinari is a graduate of the Assassin's Guild, and the Assassin's Guild has standards.

As to the Starks/Targaryens- well, in the TV verse at least, they're basically united now. As to Jon Snow personally... well, look at the first two City Watch books and Carrot for how Vetinari might approach a "long-lost heir returns" scenario.
"Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy." - Lincoln.

User avatar
Majin Gojira
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5834
Joined: 2002-08-06 11:27pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Yet Another X In Westeros! (Discworld)

Post by Majin Gojira » 2018-04-30 03:24pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-04-30 02:45pm
My three big questions regarding the OP are:

1. When you say that Ank Morpork has always been there- what does that mean exactly? Does that mean that the entire timeline has been rewritten to account of AM's long-term presence. Because the ripple effects of that might make both settings unrecognizeable.
I'm working off the line from 'Thud!' "It seemed like it'd been there forever. but had it seemed like forever yesterday?"

Mainly, this is about uniting currencies, trade routes for basic resources and raw materials, and a baseline knowledge of the surroundings, but nothing more.
2. When you say AM and the lands it controls... what does that entail? IIRC, AM controls little territory outside of the city itself officially, but wields a great deal of political influence over the kingdoms of the Sto plains (and to a lesser extent beyond), at least Vetinari and the Watch under Vimes take control.
Mostly the Sto plains region of influence. near as i can tell from the maps, that's about an area similar to, if a bit larger, than the Reach if I'm reading my maps right.
3. If Discworld magic is in play, does that mean we're going to get things like the Creatures from the Dungeon Dimensions, the Auditors of Reality, and DEATH showing up?
DEATH is a constant. The Creatures from the Dungeon Dimension are, for a while at least, unable to take advantage of this shiftin the fabric of reality (as much as they'd like to).

Otherwise, if they are in the region of Ankh-Morpork, it's probably going to seep in with the city. Auditors included. But they still have to obey the rules, however.
Hmm, DEATH would probably get overworked if he had to deal with Westeros. :wink:
I can imaginethat. And after a harrowing escape, Arya Stark stumbles across DEATH with this exchange. That and Arya Stark trying that 'Not today' thing when she has a near DEATH Experience.
ISARMA: Daikaiju Coordinator: Just Add Radiation
Justice League- Molly Hayes: Respect Hats or Freakin' Else!
Browncoat
Supernatural Taisen - "[This Story] is essentially "Wouldn't it be awesome if this happened?" Followed by explosions."

Reviewing movies is a lot like Paleontology: The Evidence is there...but no one seems to agree upon it.

"God! Are you so bored that you enjoy seeing us humans suffer?! Why can't you let this poor man live happily with his son! What kind of God are you, crushing us like ants?!" - Kyoami, Ran

User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 14186
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Yet Another X In Westeros! (Discworld)

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-04-30 03:50pm

Oh God, Arya and DEATH. I want to read that fanfic.
"Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy." - Lincoln.

User avatar
wautd
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7271
Joined: 2004-02-11 10:11am
Location: Intensive care

Re: Yet Another X In Westeros! (Discworld)

Post by wautd » 2018-05-02 07:50am

I hope the people of Westeros like to eat lots and lots of cabbage :)
Other laws from the Disk begin swiftly intruding as well
Does this mean anyone will have dragons? (iirc Discworld dragons only exist as long as you believe in them).

User avatar
Majin Gojira
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5834
Joined: 2002-08-06 11:27pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Yet Another X In Westeros! (Discworld)

Post by Majin Gojira » 2018-05-02 10:06am

wautd wrote:
2018-05-02 07:50am
I hope the people of Westeros like to eat lots and lots of cabbage :)
Other laws from the Disk begin swiftly intruding as well
Does this mean anyone will have dragons? (iirc Discworld dragons only exist as long as you believe in them).
That's not quite how that works. From "Guards! Guards!" it was outlined that proper dragons were in a dragon dimension and needed a higher supply of magic to exist on the Disc than is morally there.

So the Noble Dragons of the Disc won't be there, but there's still a lot of dragons. Her Grace, Lady Sybil Ramkin-Vimes, Duchess of Ankh, would still have her colony of Swamp Dragons (as well as the other members of the Dragon breeders assosiation in Ankh-Morepork).

Imagine the reaction from the westerosi nobility at hearing that lady Ramkin-Vimes has a breeding colony of dragons, and their reaction on seeing what she actually has.
ISARMA: Daikaiju Coordinator: Just Add Radiation
Justice League- Molly Hayes: Respect Hats or Freakin' Else!
Browncoat
Supernatural Taisen - "[This Story] is essentially "Wouldn't it be awesome if this happened?" Followed by explosions."

Reviewing movies is a lot like Paleontology: The Evidence is there...but no one seems to agree upon it.

"God! Are you so bored that you enjoy seeing us humans suffer?! Why can't you let this poor man live happily with his son! What kind of God are you, crushing us like ants?!" - Kyoami, Ran

User avatar
Crazedwraith
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10286
Joined: 2003-04-10 03:45pm
Location: Cheshire, England

Re: Yet Another X In Westeros! (Discworld)

Post by Crazedwraith » 2018-05-02 10:07am

The Colour Of Magic Dragons and the Guards!Guards! Dragon worked slightly different iirc.
To the brave passengers and crew of the Kobayashi Maru... sucks to be you - Peter David

User avatar
Batman
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 15204
Joined: 2002-07-09 04:51am
Location: 'Very' mildly hopeful now DC recognized taking Clark's red trunks away was a bad idea
Contact:

Re: Yet Another X In Westeros! (Discworld)

Post by Batman » 2018-05-02 01:31pm

You are correct. The CoM dragons were creatures of imagination and could only exist close to the Wyrmberg. The GG dragon, once in Discworld reality, was property-crushingly real and could presumably go wherever she wanted (she and Errol were last seen headed for parts unknown).
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'

Post Reply