Avengers: Infinity War (massive spoilers!)

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (massive spoilers!)

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-05-07 08:34pm

amigocabal wrote:
2018-05-01 10:45pm
Spoiler
This film had the darkest ending of any film I have seen.

Just think of it. A death toll in the quintillions, if not more. Add to that collateral damage from crashed vehicles ranging from primitive cars to multi-mile long spacecraft, and that adds at least quadrillions to the death toll.
Haven't seen the film, but I've already seen the spoilers, so...

On that note, what's the best guess on where part two is going? Are they going to retcon all the dead back to life, or are they going to use this as a way to write out all the actors who might be wanting to exit the MCU at some point?

I mean, realistically, half the population dying would cause a complete breakdown of society. They almost have to partially retcon it.
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (massive spoilers!)

Post by Elheru Aran » 2018-05-07 09:28pm

No need to spoilerize in this thread...

Chris Evans and RDJ for example, their contracts are expiring. I fully expect them to be replaced after the part 2 comes out. In true comic book fashion I expect most of the heroes to be resurrected. The Guardians of the Galaxy are probably going to find themselves in Soul World or otherwise encounter Adam Warlock.
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (massive spoilers!)

Post by Rogue 9 » 2018-05-07 09:30pm

Yeah, but notably Steve Rogers and Tony Stark didn't bite the bullet during the Big Snap, so if they're killing off the retiring actors, they hit the wrong characters.
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (massive spoilers!)

Post by Civil War Man » 2018-05-07 10:41pm

It does set up the possibility of one or both of them sacrificing themselves in order to bring back dead characters whose actors are not retiring. It could be a rather fitting send-off for them.

Though now that I think about it, none of the OG Avengers were part of the 50%. Iron Man, Captain America, Hulk, Thor, Black Widow, and presumably Hawkeye (since he's not in the movie) all survived.

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (massive spoilers!)

Post by Dominus Atheos » 2018-05-07 11:44pm

So was there ever any explanation on how many asgardians thanos killed? Thor said half, but it really didn't look like he left half (or any) alive. Especially after the ship blew up.

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (massive spoilers!)

Post by AniThyng » 2018-05-08 12:39am

Dominus Atheos wrote:
2018-05-07 11:44pm
So was there ever any explanation on how many asgardians thanos killed? Thor said half, but it really didn't look like he left half (or any) alive. Especially after the ship blew up.
It would be a kick in the teeth if Valkyrie died offscreen. Maybe Thanos "let" that half go, in a escape launch/lifeboat or whatever, and valkryie was leading that?
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (massive spoilers!)

Post by Vendetta » 2018-05-08 06:03am

Rogue 9 wrote:
2018-05-07 09:30pm
Yeah, but notably Steve Rogers and Tony Stark didn't bite the bullet during the Big Snap, so if they're killing off the retiring actors, they hit the wrong characters.
Remember this is the halfway point in the story.

They'll be doing that next film, which is when a lot of the contracts are actually up. It's highly likely that by the end of part 2 who is alive and dead will be basically reversed.
Elheru Aran wrote:
2018-05-07 09:28pm
The Guardians of the Galaxy are probably going to find themselves in Soul World or otherwise encounter Adam Warlock.
Warlock won't be until GotG3. Gamora is in the Soul World right now, and she will likely fulfil Warlock's role in whatever part of the remaining Infinity Gauntlet storyline gets used, with Captain Marvel taking the Surfer's.

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (massive spoilers!)

Post by Civil War Man » 2018-05-08 07:43am

AniThyng wrote:
2018-05-08 12:39am
Dominus Atheos wrote:
2018-05-07 11:44pm
So was there ever any explanation on how many asgardians thanos killed? Thor said half, but it really didn't look like he left half (or any) alive. Especially after the ship blew up.
It would be a kick in the teeth if Valkyrie died offscreen. Maybe Thanos "let" that half go, in a escape launch/lifeboat or whatever, and valkryie was leading that?
During a Q&A, one of the directors explicitly said that Valkyrie survived, and that about half of the Asgardians escaped in lifepods. No word on Korg and Miek, though.

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (massive spoilers!)

Post by Crazedwraith » 2018-05-08 08:25am

I'd fucking love it if they were all dead. Killing Thor's existing support character from them and then the new lot getting killed off with even more lack of ceremony would be hilarious.
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (massive spoilers!)

Post by EnterpriseSovereign » 2018-05-08 08:16pm

Given how close together the infinity stones were found it's reasonable to assume Thanos' influence is restricted to the Milky Way galaxy, though even this galaxy will certainly have more than the handful of civilisations we've met so far.

I have to wonder if the numbers Thanos turned to dust were entirely random or if there was some order/level to it- would Thanos kill a greater portion of the populations of third world countries where overpopulation and famine run rampant, and would this extend to a planetary level?
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (massive spoilers!)

Post by GuppyShark » 2018-05-08 08:43pm

Given how significantly it affected America and Wakanda I doubt third world nations get hit harder. I Imagine the granularity is planetary - Thanos wouldn't have a need to revisit worlds he's already halved, and probably doesn't clear about political boundaries.

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (massive spoilers!)

Post by NeoGoomba » 2018-05-09 08:09am

EnterpriseSovereign wrote:
2018-05-08 08:16pm
I have to wonder if the numbers Thanos turned to dust were entirely random or if there was some order/level to it- would Thanos kill a greater portion of the populations of third world countries where overpopulation and famine run rampant, and would this extend to a planetary level?
I'm leaning towards it was random. When he was talking to Stark, he was talking as if he knew Stark was going to die. Whereas he liked and spared Starlord earlier. Then Starlord dissolves and Stark lives.

And I had a wacky/horrified thought (and I'm sure I'm not alone) that they might try and pull a Damon Lindelof and the heroes who we saw "survive" actually died too and are in some kind of Heroes Reborn/The Leftovers thing. That way they could have their cake and eat it too with the whole "the deaths aren't going to be magically reversed" shtick they are trying so hard to tell us. Earth-616 and Earth-Whateverthefuck.
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (massive spoilers!)

Post by Crazedwraith » 2018-05-09 08:17am

I was thinking that but I thought it might be for the OG Avengers, they're the ones that need to be recast.

They pull some Onslaught like sacrifice to reverse Thanos' changes and get punted to parallel dimension where they're different actors.
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (massive spoilers!)

Post by Lost Soal » 2018-05-09 08:35am

NeoGoomba wrote:
2018-05-09 08:09am
EnterpriseSovereign wrote:
2018-05-08 08:16pm
I have to wonder if the numbers Thanos turned to dust were entirely random or if there was some order/level to it- would Thanos kill a greater portion of the populations of third world countries where overpopulation and famine run rampant, and would this extend to a planetary level?
I'm leaning towards it was random. When he was talking to Stark, he was talking as if he knew Stark was going to die. Whereas he liked and spared Starlord earlier. Then Starlord dissolves and Stark lives.
It'll be random because that was his original plan to save his own planet, a random lot. Knowing Stark was going to die was because, well, he was going to kill him personally until Strange intervened.
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (massive spoilers!)

Post by EnterpriseSovereign » 2018-05-09 10:26am

Regarding the forcefield protecting the Wakandan city, it's possible that the initial impact (one step away from a Colony Drop) weakened the shield enough to allow some enemies to force their way through it. But yes, failing to take advantage of the resulting bottleneck from opening a small portion of the shield was a bad call.

Hopefully the Wakandans do a better job of repairing Vision than they did of extracting the mind stone from his head. Though we did learn that the stones can be destroyed, at least by powers that were initially conferred by said stone. Which is of limited use since Maximoff herself was one of those to bite the dust.

Let's also hope that Strange did indeed booby-trap the time stone in some fashion otherwise his simply handing it over to spare Tony Stark (without even trying to use it himself) is monumentally stupid given Thanos used it to thwart Scarlet Witch's attempt to destroy the last stone and complete the set.

According to Wikipedia, both Hawkeye and Ant-Man will be in the second half sequel.
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (massive spoilers!)

Post by Crazedwraith » 2018-05-09 11:16am

It's very likely from the future sight and 'It was the only way' that Strange giving the time stone over like that was part of the one in billions shot to win.
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (massive spoilers!)

Post by EnterpriseSovereign » 2018-05-09 03:22pm

Crazedwraith wrote:
2018-05-09 11:16am
It's very likely from the future sight and 'It was the only way' that Strange giving the time stone over like that was part of the one in billions shot to win.
It was 1 in 14 million-and-something. :D
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (massive spoilers!)

Post by Solauren » 2018-05-09 03:54pm

I have to wonder...

Has anyone sat down Thanos and explains the concept of the Matrix to him for controlling population levels and resource management?
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (massive spoilers!)

Post by EnterpriseSovereign » 2018-05-10 11:27am

Solauren wrote:
2018-05-09 03:54pm
I have to wonder...

Has anyone sat down Thanos and explains the concept of the Matrix to him for controlling population levels and resource management?
Pity the one person best-placed to do this with his knowledge of movies (Parker) was turned to dust.
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (massive spoilers!)

Post by Crazedwraith » 2018-05-10 12:40pm

Just thought that the situation for part 2 mirrors something Stark said in Avengers.

They didn't save the universe but you can be damn sure they'll avenge it.
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (massive spoilers!)

Post by K. A. Pital » 2018-05-11 12:53pm

Bodycount isn't going to stay, it's just there for shock value, although on its own, the film more than delivered.

In fact to me this is the end of MCU, its conclusion.

Not interested in watching the sequels. Perfect ending.
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (massive spoilers!)

Post by Gandalf » 2018-05-12 05:32am

Well that fucking sucked as a film.

What was the point of killing off so many characters that we know will be back? The moment that happened, suddenly all of the deaths are meaningless because some sort of reset is happening. Loki and Heimdall's great opening deaths? Pointless. All of the other death and drama? Pointless.

How much of the next film will just be setting up a reset button to get back all of those profitable actors and their already announced sequels?
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (massive spoilers!)

Post by K. A. Pital » 2018-05-12 05:46am

Gandalf wrote:
2018-05-12 05:32am
Well that fucking sucked as a film.

What was the point of killing off so many characters that we know will be back? The moment that happened, suddenly all of the deaths are meaningless because some sort of reset is happening. Loki and Heimdall's great opening deaths? Pointless. All of the other death and drama? Pointless.

How much of the next film will just be setting up a reset button to get back all of those profitable actors and their already announced sequels?
No idea, because I'm not interested? :lol:

Thanos is the ultimate metaphor of the ruling class - seeking power for the sake of horrible solutions which are driven by own fears and insecurity.

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (massive spoilers!)

Post by Gandalf » 2018-05-12 08:47am

Indeed. It's amusing that in Trump's America, the solution to the whole thing is likely to come from an egocentric billionaire.
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (massive spoilers!)

Post by K. A. Pital » 2018-05-12 09:15am

But I agree with you that you have exactly few minutes of genuine drama - once they go past the initial deaths, it quickly escalates and you realize they've cheapened their own story for the sake of making it epic now, but lame in the future.

Which is a shame, considering the stellar performance Josh Brolin gave to one of the silliest villains in comics, almost making him into MCU's fucking Vader.

That's why I'm not very interested in what they'll make next, as it will be cheapening and wiping out every bit of dramatism from the present fight.

And that's never a good thing. Dead heroes did not rise up after Berlin was taken.

But let us ponder on the goods and bads of this film, and not venture too deeply into criticism of the comic book superhero genre as such, which is authoritarian, irresponsible and with it's never-dying and never-facing consequences cast, unable to reform and change, perpetrating authoritarian fantasies over decades.

I thought the Vision bits were weak. It was unnecessary, and nobody in the room cared for Vision. Totally unsympathetic character, and the chemistry between him and Scarlet was just not there.

I must thank MCU and Disney for not having half-naked women as heroes, though (re; Scarlet Witch). Fuck DC.

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