Avengers: Infinity War (massive spoilers!)

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (massive spoilers!)

Post by NeoGoomba » 2018-05-16 08:10am

Of the Avengers left, if they go down that route of self-sacrifice via the Gauntlet, Thor is the most likely to survive with Cap being probably the "best" person to wield it.

Or a rebuilt Vision, now that his puke color scheme is gone.
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (massive spoilers!)

Post by K. A. Pital » 2018-05-16 12:40pm

Nobody, just destroy it. Movie lore says you can. :P
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (massive spoilers!)

Post by Elheru Aran » 2018-05-16 01:00pm

Napoleon the Clown wrote:
2018-05-15 10:07pm
The Infinity Gauntlet Thanos had one seems to be pretty trashed at this point. The question is, was the one at the forge a functional version or a copy of some sort? We know that Asgard had a fake/duplicate. Is that the case with this one, too? If not, is it Thanos-sized? In such a case, Hulk will get to wear a shiny gauntlet when it comes time (possibly). That would certainly make the big green guy happy.
It looked to just be a design model, I doubt it was functional.

Anyway, a little review:

The original comic went like so. Thanos picked up the Gems in a separate storyline, 'Thanos Quest'. He hooks up with Mephisto, Lady Death, and magicks his brother Starfox to his side, and conjures up a floating temple to himself and Lady Death in deep space. The finger-snap happens, the heroes get together, attack him. That goes about as well as might be expected. Adam Warlock and Silver Surfer arrange for the Cosmic Beings of the Marvel Universe to attack Thanos; this also goes poorly, and Thanos is elevated to such a position that he effectively becomes *the* Universe (replacing Eternity). His body is conveniently left comatose on the flying temple. Zombie Nebula, who he conjured to his side as a bit of grandiose arrogance, pulls the Gauntlet off his hand and reverses pretty much everything he did. This leads to some confusion as suddenly the newly-revived Good Guys have to ally with Thanos to get it away from her. Hijinks ensue; Adam Warlock ends up with the Gauntlet and divides the Gems among the Infinity Watch, and Thanos is thought dead (but is actually retired on the farm).

Changes in the MCU: No Lady Death. No Starfox (and thank fuck for that, there aren't many more creepy characters). No floating temple (yet). We are currently post-finger-snap. Thanos is sitting pretty on his farm; the Gauntlet may be fucked. Crucially, no Adam Warlock to tie the heroes together; he's been teased in Guardians of the Galaxy, but since presence is lacking, I think we can assume he probably won't be involved in this version of the story.

Without Lady Death, Thanos isn't trying to impress anybody. Maybe he'll have a burst of regret and conjure Gamora back from the dead. We haven't really any Cosmic Beings in the MCU (Knowhere is a *deceased* Celestial; Ego is likewise deceased; no other Celestials have been seen at present; the Elders of the Universe thus far have been distinctly unimpressive).

So it pretty much comes down to what Our Heroes might do against him, and what help they might be able to rustle up. Xandar and the Nova Corps are probably a wash (IIRC there's a mention of Xandar getting trashed for Thanos to pick up the purple stone). Maybe the Ravagers will try to avenge Peter Quill.

Bearing in mind that there are 2 films to come out before Infinity Gauntlet Pt 2: Captain Marvel and Ant-Man. I'm pretty sure Captain Marvel is going to cover the Kree-Skrull War, and might well introduce a Cosmic Being or two. In fact Captain Marvel is actually sort of a Cosmic Being in her own right... plus there's a tie to Thanos thanks to the classic Death of Captain Marvel, though I don't know if they're gonna play with that storyline in any way. Maybe something along the lines of 'Thanos killed the last Captain Marvel'? Ant-Man on the other hand... is a bit hard to figure on how it might play into Avengers 4. Certainly the Pym Particles have promise, but the last Ant-Man was a very self-contained film, HYDRA and Avengers side plot notwithstanding. I've heard guesses that the Quantum Realm or the Microverse or whatever might relate to Carol Danvers/Captain Marvel in some fashion though.

Rough prediction: Carol Danvers helps pull the Avengers back together, Tony and Steve patch things up, and maaaaaybe Tony learns magic? (pretty sure I saw a clip somewhere of Tony wearing the Cloak of Levitation... but we saw it dissolve with Doctor Strange, and it was a production clip, so it could've just been the actors screwing around...)
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (massive spoilers!)

Post by Eternal_Freedom » 2018-05-16 01:32pm

I may be mis-remembering things, but post-finger-snap we seem to have gone back to the original Avengers crew being alive while a lot of the newer characters are gone - Cap, Thor, Iron Man, Banna/Hulk, Black Widow and (maybe) Hawkeye are all still kicking, while Vision, Scarlet Witch, Falcon, Spiderman, Strange, Black Panther and Star Lord are all dead.

The only none-original Avenger still around seems to be Rhodes.
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (massive spoilers!)

Post by Crazedwraith » 2018-05-16 03:09pm

So why was there no Accords Sanctioned Avengers team? Spider-Man Homecoming pretty heavily implies there was one after CW but there's very little sign of it in Iw just War Machine hanging about and the implication Vision was as well until recently.

I mean maybe Ross just pissed everyone off that much in the two years. Rhodey's accord opinions seems to have radically changed off screen.

I can't criticise the movie for just not being what I expected but I was expecting an Accords team and Cap's Secret Avengers having to team up with some teeth clenched team work and gradual acceptance thing going on.

But the film didn't need more characters/plotlines I exepct. Av4 is presumably going to be much more focused on the team.
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (massive spoilers!)

Post by Vendetta » 2018-05-16 03:26pm

Eternal_Freedom wrote:
2018-05-16 01:32pm
I may be mis-remembering things, but post-finger-snap we seem to have gone back to the original Avengers crew being alive while a lot of the newer characters are gone - Cap, Thor, Iron Man, Banna/Hulk, Black Widow and (maybe) Hawkeye are all still kicking, while Vision, Scarlet Witch, Falcon, Spiderman, Strange, Black Panther and Star Lord are all dead.

The only none-original Avenger still around seems to be Rhodes.
It's basically down to the originals plus Rhodey, Rocket, Nebula, and Okoye that we've seen on screen.
Crazedwraith wrote:
2018-05-16 03:09pm
So why was there no Accords Sanctioned Avengers team? Spider-Man Homecoming pretty heavily implies there was one after CW but there's very little sign of it in Iw just War Machine hanging about and the implication Vision was as well until recently.
Who'd be on it?

They were down to Iron Man, War Machine, and Vision basically. Peter turned down the invitation and T'Challa wasn't an Avenger anyway. And that's basically all that was left.

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (massive spoilers!)

Post by Crazedwraith » 2018-05-16 03:33pm

Vendetta wrote:
2018-05-16 03:26pm
Crazedwraith wrote:
2018-05-16 03:09pm
So why was there no Accords Sanctioned Avengers team? Spider-Man Homecoming pretty heavily implies there was one after CW but there's very little sign of it in Iw just War Machine hanging about and the implication Vision was as well until recently.
Who'd be on it?

They were down to Iron Man, War Machine, and Vision basically. Peter turned down the invitation and T'Challa wasn't an Avenger anyway. And that's basically all that was left.
I don't know? Captain Marvel, Quake, Luke Cage and Iron Fist, USAgent? I wasn't expecting them to be existing characters but are we were expecting Ross to be happy that's taken over a team considering of Vision? I'd expect a recruitment drive for new heroes.

But like I said with everything else going on they can't really be introducing new heroes.
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (massive spoilers!)

Post by Vendetta » 2018-05-16 04:40pm

Remember that TV characters don't exist in the movies, and Captain Marvel is frankly too big a gun to introduce without explanation. Like "Hey suddenly there's this extra person who's as strong as the Hulk and can fly and shoot lasers out of her hands".

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (massive spoilers!)

Post by Crazedwraith » 2018-05-16 04:43pm

Vendetta wrote:
2018-05-16 04:40pm
Remember that TV characters don't exist in the movies, and Captain Marvel is frankly too big a gun to introduce without explanation. Like "Hey suddenly there's this extra person who's as strong as the Hulk and can fly and shoot lasers out of her hands".
Don't tell the TV Shows that!

They're going to have to do that next movie anyway. And they managed it with Spidey and Black Panther pretty well.

Look, I know the reasons dude, it still seems a little odd from an in-universe perspective that no-one's stepping up to pick up the Avenger's slack.
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (massive spoilers!)

Post by Vendetta » 2018-05-16 05:38pm

The Captain Marvel movie will have happened between now and IW2, and it's set in the '90s and will presumably explain what Carol has been doing for the last couple of decades (probably off having space adventures).

So audiences will be more primed for her appearance on the big stage.

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (massive spoilers!)

Post by Gandalf » 2018-05-16 06:12pm

Vendetta wrote:
2018-05-16 05:38pm
The Captain Marvel movie will have happened between now and IW2, and it's set in the '90s and will presumably explain what Carol has been doing for the last couple of decades (probably off having space adventures).

So audiences will be more primed for her appearance on the big stage.
The weird part will be explaining how lucky everyone was that she survived Thanos' grand coin flip.
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (massive spoilers!)

Post by ray245 » 2018-05-16 06:23pm

Gandalf wrote:
2018-05-16 06:12pm
Vendetta wrote:
2018-05-16 05:38pm
The Captain Marvel movie will have happened between now and IW2, and it's set in the '90s and will presumably explain what Carol has been doing for the last couple of decades (probably off having space adventures).

So audiences will be more primed for her appearance on the big stage.
The weird part will be explaining how lucky everyone was that she survived Thanos' grand coin flip.
Perhaps the only scenario where Captain Marvel survives the coin flip is the one where Strange gives up the time stone.
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (massive spoilers!)

Post by PREDATOR490 » 2018-05-16 11:29pm

Watched it again.

Thor and Wakanda are the weakest parts of this film.

Thor spends way too much time on his own personal side-quest tangent that only seems to exist to wank over him followed by contributing little to the film. The Forge situation was a pitfall of lame drama stupidity.

Thor has to manually restart the damn thing through the most stupid method possible. This would have been more thematic AND consistent if Thor had used his non hammer required lightning skills learned in Ragnarok to destroy the magic ice that had jammed the mechanism instead of the bizarre pulling. It is bad enough that you have Thor floating around in space without any protection, obviously breathing and somehow speaking to Rocket in vaccum.

This is further compounded by the colossal WTF when the Dwarf states it would take a "FEW" minutes to fix the Iris to get the forge working. Thor decides this is an unreasonable amount of time to wait so he is going to commit potential suicide by taking the blast from a Neutron Star. Thor has no reason to be rushing this hard because he has no idea what is going on. The only way this remotely makes sense is if Thor actually KNOWS he cannot be killed by the star which makes this entire scene pointlessly over-dramatic. Out of universe, Thor is not going to die, so again, this entire side jaunt comes across as a pitiful attempt to keep Thor active in the film while keeping him benched for as long as possible.

How did Thor even know he had to teleport to Wakanda in the first place ?
Even when Thor finally shows up, he spends the battle knocking out the garbage and completely misses the Thanos VS. Avengers on Earth until lamely coming in at the end.

-----

The film comes across as really inconsistent in what Thanos and the Avengers can actually do. Thanos beats the shit out of the Hulk with no issue and it is implied he did the same to Thor. A single blow from Thanos should be turning Iron Man and Captain America into a bloody smear.
Later on, Iron Man hits Thanos repeatedly to make him bleed and Nebula repeatedly attempts to stab the dude implying that he CAN be stabbed / cut.

Why the fuck are they trying to pull the gauntlet off of him rather than severing his arm. Iron Man and Strange both appear to have bladed weapons so it seems like that entire 'struggle' to get the glove off had a much quicker solution. Not to mention that Strange can literally generate portals that severs anything caught between them.

As for Strange - I really do not like the way the Time Stone usage is depicted here. Using it as a cheap time rewind trick is eye-rollingly predictable but pulling the "I can view every future at once instantly" is one of those things that sounds cool but destroys the entire movie.

It is fairly obvious this film is trying to convey that Strange is playing for the future that will let them win but the moment Strange comes out with that line, anything Strange does is pointless and the film becomes a wasted exercise in trying to create any drama.
What was the point in Strange and Co. making the effort to get the glove off of Thanos if Strange knows it will not work ?
How does wasting all that effort to get it off help generate the future that will let them win ?
Though, it ACTUALLY would have worked and only failed because Star Lord messed it up.

It was simpler for Strange to play that entire pointless battle out for some sort of "future" win compared to stopping Star Lord from screwing up getting the glove off Thanos ?

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (massive spoilers!)

Post by Lost Soal » 2018-05-17 02:24am

PREDATOR490 wrote:
2018-05-16 11:29pm

This is further compounded by the colossal WTF when the Dwarf states it would take a "FEW" minutes to fix the Iris to get the forge working. Thor decides this is an unreasonable amount of time to wait so he is going to commit potential suicide by taking the blast from a Neutron Star.
No he doesn't. It will take a few minutes to MELT the metal. He says nothing about fixing the Iris, probably because he can't. You only get Stormbreaker because he had already made the mold, he can't actually do anything beside pull some leavers and hit things.
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (massive spoilers!)

Post by Kojiro » 2018-05-18 08:33pm

PREDATOR490 wrote:
2018-05-16 11:29pm
How did Thor even know he had to teleport to Wakanda in the first place ?
My personal headcanon is that Thor's acquisition of the Bifrost powers includes some version of Heimdal's sight. He must after all have some way to aim or direct it, and in this case to do so despite Wakanda's hidden nature. Either that or he simply wills it and the Bifrost 'just knows' but that feels weaker.
Even when Thor finally shows up, he spends the battle knocking out the garbage and completely misses the Thanos VS. Avengers on Earth until lamely coming in at the end.
I could be wrong, but I don't think Thor is aware of just how far progressed Thanos is. Last he heard, Thano had just two stones. Maybe I'm remembering wrong but I think after Thanos gives his.. advice.. only then does Thor see the Gauntlet completed but it's too late...
Why the fuck are they trying to pull the gauntlet off of him rather than severing his arm.
Given what it took to draw even a single drop of blood, that may take time they just don't have. It could also be that, while Mantis can keep him sorta under control, strong enough stimuli might break him out of it, such as a prolonged, undoubtedly painful amputation. Even Quill just punching him made his stir after all. Could be they considered both and felt pulling it off was more likely to succeed.
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (massive spoilers!)

Post by LadyTevar » 2018-05-18 10:17pm

BTW: Those folks condemning Quill for punching Thanos have never had a loved one die suddenly and at another's hand.
So... yeah. Quill finds out Gamora's gone, after he's been kicking himself for 'being weak' and not protecting her (and killing her) when she begged. Now it's too late to make it right. Of course he's gonna start beating the shit out of the bastard that killed her. If Mantis could have kept Thanos frozen, Quill would have happily beat him to death, no matter how long it took, because the pain inside needed let out.

That's what Revenge really is, you know. You're hurting so much from losing someone, that you want the bastard who did it to hurt more.
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (massive spoilers!)

Post by Gandalf » 2018-05-18 11:27pm

LadyTevar wrote:
2018-05-18 10:17pm
BTW: Those folks condemning Quill for punching Thanos have never had a loved one die suddenly and at another's hand.
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (massive spoilers!)

Post by EnterpriseSovereign » 2018-05-27 09:43pm

To his credit though, Star-Lord showed enough restraint to not simply unload on Thanos the way he did on Ego when the latter told him how he killed his mother. Too bad that single punch was enough to break the hold Mantis had on Thanos and ruin the whole thing.
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