Design your own Small Council (Game of Thrones, RAR).

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Design your own Small Council (Game of Thrones, RAR).

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-03-02 05:27pm

For the purposes of this thread, you are tasked with putting together a Small Council that can keep the Seven Kingdoms running smoothly, and intact. You may pick any era, and any characters, and any King/Queen (or claimant to the throne), and any characters for your council, with the sole stipulation that all the characters you pick must have been alive in the same time frame.

For the record, IIRC, the standard positions on the Small Council are:

King/Queen.
Hand of the King/Queen.
Commander of the King's Guard.
Grandmaester.
Master of Laws.
Master of Ships.
Master of Coin.
Master of Whispers (spymaster).

Proceed. :D
"Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy." - Lincoln.

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Re: Design your own Small Council (Game of Thrones, RAR).

Post by FaxModem1 » 2018-03-02 07:21pm

Do they have to be from A Song of Ice and Fire? Or from anything?

EDIT: For instance, could I make the crew of the Enterprise D the small Council, as they're all alive at the same time?
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Re: Design your own Small Council (Game of Thrones, RAR).

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-03-02 07:38pm

FaxModem1 wrote:
2018-03-02 07:21pm
Do they have to be from A Song of Ice and Fire? Or from anything?

EDIT: For instance, could I make the crew of the Enterprise D the small Council, as they're all alive at the same time?
Was meant to be just an ASOIAF/GoT thread, but if you want to bring in outside characters, I'll allow it.

Just specify what continuity you're pulling your characters from- Bookverse, TV, or another continuity. And again, they all have to have been alive in the same time frame.
"Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy." - Lincoln.

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Re: Design your own Small Council (Game of Thrones, RAR).

Post by Tribble » 2018-03-02 09:39pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-03-02 07:38pm
FaxModem1 wrote:
2018-03-02 07:21pm
Do they have to be from A Song of Ice and Fire? Or from anything?

EDIT: For instance, could I make the crew of the Enterprise D the small Council, as they're all alive at the same time?
Was meant to be just an ASOIAF/GoT thread, but if you want to bring in outside characters, I'll allow it.

Just specify what continuity you're pulling your characters from- Bookverse, TV, or another continuity. And again, they all have to have been alive in the same time frame.
Ok, here goes:

King: Morgoth
Hand of the King: Sauron
Commander of the King's Guard: Glaurung
Grandmaester: Gothmog
Master of Laws: Draugluin
Master of Ships: Ancalagon the Black*
Master of Coin: Durin's Bane
Masters of Whispers: Carcharoth

I would have most of the council comprised of Balrogs, but since most of them go unnamed that wouldn't be very interesting. And while Ungoliant is plenty cunning and powerful, she won't be invited for... obvious reasons.

This Small Council should be sufficient to keep the Seven Kingdoms running smoothly and intact, if for no other reason than most of the inhabitants being too terrified to do anything about it. Bonus points in that the Night King and his army are more likely to simply join forces or at least remain neutral council rather than invade, so problem solved there. And if they end invading, I think my council should be able to handle things.

*Likely sired by Glaurung, so he'd be around in the time period which Glaurung lived, albeit not at full size for awhile. Full size being large enough to be easily spotted from space with the naked eye, mind you. He'd probably be bigger than most dragons even in infancy.
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Re: Design your own Small Council (Game of Thrones, RAR).

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-03-02 10:13pm

Well, that's one way to maintain order in the realm. :D

Here are two of mine:

TV-verse:

King: Jon Snow. An honorable man who cares about the common people, and a good warrior.

Hand: Jon Arryn. Hey, he kept the realm afloat under King Robert for a long time. He could probably do wonders with a better council and king.

Grandmaester: I don't know, who's the top maester in this period? If I can choose a lower-ranked one, Maester Luwhin. Good working relationship with the Starks.

Commander of the King's Guard: Brienne of Tarth. Honorable, loyal, good fighter. Gives some female representation on the council.

Master of Laws: Ned Stark. An honest man who respects the law is what you need to enforce the law.

Master of Ships: Davos, since I have Stannis tapped for another post. :wink: Gives some commoner (well, ex-commoner) representation too.

Master of Coin: Tyrion Lannister. He seems to have the intelligence for the position, and probably won't be too corrupt. :wink:

Master of Whispers: Stannis Baratheon. Loyalty to the law and ruthlessness without much sadism are key qualities in a spy master. As long as this is a Stannis who hasn't fallen under Melisandra's sway.

I also have four out of the seven great houses represented here, so there's some nice balance to it.


Crossover: Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Angel:

Queen: Cordelia Chase. She can pull of acting royal, and in later seasons also had a conscience and sense of duty (and magic powers, but that raises the possibility of Queen Jasmine taking her place).

Hand: Rupert Giles. Has the sense of ethics and broad skillset that the position calls for.

Grandmaester: Willow Rosenberg. Skilled at science, magic, and arcane lore. If they won't accept a female Grandmaester, Wesley Wyndam Price, for a similar broad skillset (if seemingly stronger on science and weaker on magic).

Commander of the King's Guard: Buffy Summers. A good warrior and capable of being inspiring. Not much bigger-picture strategic skill, but she doesn't need that to be CotKG.

Master of Laws: I want Giles in this post, but he's needed more elsewhere. So... Doyle. He's a decent guy, for the most part, and as the saying goes, it takes a thief to catch a thief. :)

Master of Coin: Anya. :D The most money-minded, and she probably won't pilfer the treasury Littlefinger-style. :wink:

Master of Ships: Hmm, do any of these folks have any seafaring experience? Probably not. I'm going to say Riley Finn, because at least he's a former military officer. Or maybe his friend Graham, since Riley is... well, an asshole, even by Buffyverse standards.

Master of Whispers: Wesley Wyndam Price. Ruthless, but loyal. If in the Grandmaester slot, replace with Spike.

Bonus: Court Jester: Lorne. :D
"Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy." - Lincoln.

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Re: Design your own Small Council (Game of Thrones, RAR).

Post by Tribble » 2018-03-04 10:35pm

Romulan Republic, If you don't mind I'd like to shake things up a little: let's take FaxModem's idea of using Star Trek characters and have a face off over which crew would do best in this scenario!

For the rules, here is what I propose:

The series involved would be ENT, TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY.

Each crew still grew up in their respective series, so they will be proverbial fish out of water. However, before entering the Game of Thrones universe they will be given a primer over its general history, tech etc. so they won't be going in totally blind.

Also, there will be no language barrier and they can converse with the locals without needing tech like the universal translator.

No tech brought in unless its a physical part of that character (so Data can join, Geordi gets his artifical vision, Voy Doctor gets the mobile emitter, Seven gets her borg implants etc). They also get the tech needed to keep functioning / recharging, but the tech will only work for that purpose.

Main / recurring characters only, and no "charaters of the week." No god like characters such as Q, nor can the characters use god-like powers unless they are specifically powers available in the Game of Throne universe (so Sisko can't use the powers of the prophets, Kes does not have the levels of power she displayed post-Scorpion etc).

They must be considered to be a member of the crew, or at least generally on the crew's side. So for example for the DS9 crew Quark would be ok, but not Dukat.

If the show's main / recurring cast is big enough, each character may only fill out one positon. If some crews have more positions than competent crew members, they'll have to make do.

So, what do you think? Do have any suggestions about the setup?

Who would you have fill out the positions from the various series?

Which crew do you think would have the best chance at succeeding?
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Re: Design your own Small Council (Game of Thrones, RAR).

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-03-04 11:34pm

Tribble wrote:
2018-03-04 10:35pm
Romulan Republic, If you don't mind I'd like to shake things up a little: let's take FaxModem's idea of using Star Trek characters and have a face off over which crew would do best in this scenario!
Sure.
For the rules, here is what I propose:

The series involved would be ENT, TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY.

Each crew still grew up in their respective series, so they will be proverbial fish out of water. However, before entering the Game of Thrones universe they will be given a primer over its general history, tech etc. so they won't be going in totally blind.

Also, there will be no language barrier and they can converse with the locals without needing tech like the universal translator.

No tech brought in unless its a physical part of that character (so Data can join, Geordi gets his artifical vision, Voy Doctor gets the mobile emitter, Seven gets her borg implants etc). They also get the tech needed to keep functioning / recharging, but the tech will only work for that purpose.
Yeah, that works well enough, for practical purposes.
Main / recurring characters only, and no "charaters of the week." No god like characters such as Q, nor can the characters use god-like powers unless they are specifically powers available in the Game of Throne universe (so Sisko can't use the powers of the prophets, Kes does not have the levels of power she displayed post-Scorpion etc).
Does that mean that Vulcans can't use mind melds, for example?

Better to allow them to keep their innate abilities, but just rule out god-like characters.
They must be considered to be a member of the crew, or at least generally on the crew's side. So for example for the DS9 crew Quark would be ok, but not Dukat.
Reasonable.
If the show's main / recurring cast is big enough, each character may only fill out one positon. If some crews have more positions than competent crew members, they'll have to make do.
I think most Trek series have enough main cast members over the course of their run to fill most or all of a Small Council.

Fill it well, on the other hand... that's debatable.
So, what do you think? Do have any suggestions about the setup?

Who would you have fill out the positions from the various series?

Which crew do you think would have the best chance at succeeding?
The TNG, TOS, and DS9 crews would all have a relatively good shot, I think, though early TNG might be too inflexible for such a darker setting.

DS9 would probably do best, I think.
"Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy." - Lincoln.

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Re: Design your own Small Council (Game of Thrones, RAR).

Post by Tribble » 2018-03-05 12:37am

The Romulan Republic wrote:Does that mean that Vulcans can't use mind melds, for example?

Better to allow them to keep their innate abilities, but just rule out god-like characters.
It's more to prevent the "ascended to higher planes of existence" trope, which I feel might be OP. And plenty of characters in Trek have done so at one point or another, which is why I feel it should be mentioned. So to use Kes as an example, she would have the innate abilities she displayed throughout most of her run (mild telepathy / telekinesis) but not the powerups she received in episodes like "Cold Fire," "Scorpion" etc. No P's for Picard, or Wesley universe creation / teleportation shenanigans, The Sisko is just The Sisko and not part Prophet etc :P

I'll be mentioning my specific councils soon, but it's late for me atm. It'll be interesting to see what others come up with :D
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Re: Design your own Small Council (Game of Thrones, RAR).

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-03-05 02:46pm

Tribble wrote:
2018-03-05 12:37am
The Romulan Republic wrote:Does that mean that Vulcans can't use mind melds, for example?

Better to allow them to keep their innate abilities, but just rule out god-like characters.
It's more to prevent the "ascended to higher planes of existence" trope, which I feel might be OP. And plenty of characters in Trek have done so at one point or another, which is why I feel it should be mentioned. So to use Kes as an example, she would have the innate abilities she displayed throughout most of her run (mild telepathy / telekinesis) but not the powerups she received in episodes like "Cold Fire," "Scorpion" etc. No P's for Picard, or Wesley universe creation / teleportation shenanigans, The Sisko is just The Sisko and not part Prophet etc :P

I'll be mentioning my specific councils soon, but it's late for me atm. It'll be interesting to see what others come up with :D
Yeah, that's what I meant. They keep their innate abilities, but no one's allowed who's god-like.

Hmm, how many TV show main characters? I think its just Wesley, Sisko, and Kes. At least, those were the only ones that stuck (there's also one-episode stuff like Riker briefly getting Q powers).
"Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy." - Lincoln.

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Re: Design your own Small Council (Game of Thrones, RAR).

Post by FaxModem1 » 2018-03-05 11:34pm

Stamets could experience things outside of time for a while.
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Re: Design your own Small Council (Game of Thrones, RAR).

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-03-09 03:23pm

Another one (because I had an idea a while back for a fanfic built around "what if Firefly took place in Game of Thrones):

The Firefly crew:

Queen: Inara. She's hands down the most fit of the crew to play at being royalty.

Hand of the Queen: Mal. Loyalty, good fighter, command experience, some sense of personal ethics, fairly broad skill set.

Commander of the King's Guard: Jayne, mostly because the better options are needed in other posts. And Jayne at least can fight hand-to-hand if need be, if probably with less elegance than is generally expected of the King's Guard.

Grand Maester: Simon. Well-educated, and medical services are a key part of a Maester's duties.

Master of Laws: Sheppard Book. I think he has the strongest sense of Justice, while still being able to handle himself in a fight.

Master of Coin: Zoe. I trust her the most not to abuse this position, of the available candidates.

Master of Ships: None are really fit for this post, again, because none have experience with pre-space naval warfare, but Kaylee mostly by default.

Master of Whispers: River. She'd be scarily effective in this position (once she gets a bit more stable post-Serenity, anyway) simply due to the mind-reading, and virtually impossible to corrupt or assassinate.
"Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy." - Lincoln.

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Re: Design your own Small Council (Game of Thrones, RAR).

Post by Simon_Jester » 2018-03-09 04:44pm

Hm. Star Trek mishmash crew, 24th century characters only:

King: Picard. He's level-headed, sensible, very inclined to think before he acts, and good at getting the best out of his subordinates rather than acting unilaterally. At the same time, he's got real steel in his backbone and will not yield to a villainous antagonist in a crisis.

Hand of the King: Riker. Because the Hand has a lot of the disagreeable and difficult duties, but by the same token has far more ability to personally go out and get shit done. That's Riker. If I was taking characters from the TOS era, this would be Kirk's job, because Kirk is a superior version of Riker with more natural aptitude for command.

Grand Maester: Actually unsure about this one. Data would be a shoo-in if it weren't for his incorruptibility and computational abilities being so valuable in the capacity of Master of Coin. The obvious medical choices are uncertain ones for me; I'm not sure Crusher has the chops to stop other maesters from running her ragged, I haven't watched enough DS9 to pencil in Bashir one way or the other, and the EMH is utterly unsuitable for any position of long-term responsibliity. If I were going to bring in TOS characters this would be McCoy's job simply because he'd provide some useful counterbalance to the personalities of the rest of the team.

Master of Laws: If I didn't think we needed Picard in the top slot, I'd put him here. As it is... um, legal talent is not really a major area for our protagonists. I'm not sure what to do with this one. If I were going to bring in TOS characters I'd make this Spock's job, because he would be very rigorous about enforcement even if his ethics caused him to change laws in unusual ways.

Master of Coin: Data. His encyclopedic knowledge and superhuman abilities make him a tremendous asset, and his pacifism isn't a handicap in this position as long as it's being used responsibly. He'll know everything, keep perfect records, and never lie; the position could not possibly have a better occupant. His main limitation is his difficulty saying 'no' to people; that might be a problem.

Master of Ships: Worf. Yes, seriously, Worf. He knows how to command organized bodies of troops or can credibly lead into this role, and he is by far the most qualified member of the cast to actually wage pre-industrial warfare of any kind. Since the Master of Ships is the most likely to personally take the field in wartime and command his troops (or ships) directly, I think this should be Worf. Sure, we don't think about Worf being a master builder or anything, but he doesn't need to be.

Master of Whispers: Sisko, insofar as he is the most skilled at intrigue and the most willing to 'go dark.' Still a tough, idealistic character, but more capable in this arena than others.
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Re: Design your own Small Council (Game of Thrones, RAR).

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-03-09 05:00pm

Simon_Jester wrote:
2018-03-09 04:44pm
Hm. Star Trek mishmash crew, 24th century characters only:

King: Picard. He's level-headed, sensible, very inclined to think before he acts, and good at getting the best out of his subordinates rather than acting unilaterally. At the same time, he's got real steel in his backbone and will not yield to a villainous antagonist in a crisis.
Picard also has the personal presence and public speaking abilities (thanks to Patrick Stewart) to be a damn fine king, though his more egalitarian Federation values would clash horribly with the Federation. You'd also (obviously) have to find a way to hand-wave the Prime Directive issues, though Picard could be surprisingly flexible on that point when he felt it justified.

But then, Picard is my favorite captain and in my top five or ten favorite characters for the franchise, so its no surprise that I like this pick. :D
Hand of the King: Riker. Because the Hand has a lot of the disagreeable and difficult duties, but by the same token has far more ability to personally go out and get shit done. That's Riker. If I was taking characters from the TOS era, this would be Kirk's job, because Kirk is a superior version of Riker with more natural aptitude for command.
Also, a good working relationship with Picard as Picard's executive officer.
Grand Maester: Actually unsure about this one. Data would be a shoo-in if it weren't for his incorruptibility and computational abilities being so valuable in the capacity of Master of Coin. The obvious medical choices are uncertain ones for me; I'm not sure Crusher has the chops to stop other maesters from running her ragged, I haven't watched enough DS9 to pencil in Bashir one way or the other, and the EMH is utterly unsuitable for any position of long-term responsibliity. If I were going to bring in TOS characters this would be McCoy's job simply because he'd provide some useful counterbalance to the personalities of the rest of the team.
I actually think Bashire would be a pretty solid choice. I think Seven of Nine has a pretty broad knowledge base and skill set too.

Why not the EMH, though? Is it just concerns about tech. malfunctions with no way to repair them, or is it a personality issue?
Master of Laws: If I didn't think we needed Picard in the top slot, I'd put him here. As it is... um, legal talent is not really a major area for our protagonists. I'm not sure what to do with this one. If I were going to bring in TOS characters I'd make this Spock's job, because he would be very rigorous about enforcement even if his ethics caused him to change laws in unusual ways.
Spock is actually alive still in the TNG era. I'd take Spock.
Master of Coin: Data. His encyclopedic knowledge and superhuman abilities make him a tremendous asset, and his pacifism isn't a handicap in this position as long as it's being used responsibly. He'll know everything, keep perfect records, and never lie; the position could not possibly have a better occupant. His main limitation is his difficulty saying 'no' to people; that might be a problem.
A very, very good choice.

Maybe on the saying no thing, order him to confirm with the King or Hand before okaying any loans/expenditures over a certain amount (I daresay this is probably standard practice anyway, corruption aside).
Master of Ships: Worf. Yes, seriously, Worf. He knows how to command organized bodies of troops or can credibly lead into this role, and he is by far the most qualified member of the cast to actually wage pre-industrial warfare of any kind. Since the Master of Ships is the most likely to personally take the field in wartime and command his troops (or ships) directly, I think this should be Worf. Sure, we don't think about Worf being a master builder or anything, but he doesn't need to be.
You are right. Worf is an excellent choice for what is the most purely military command role in a pre-industrial society.
Master of Whispers: Sisko, insofar as he is the most skilled at intrigue and the most willing to 'go dark.' Still a tough, idealistic character, but more capable in this arena than others.
I'm shocked you didn't think of Garrak.

Though I'd actually be inclined to go with a Vulcan or Betazed for the mind-reading potentials. Sure, no one would take Troi seriously as a spymaster- but the best spies hide in plain sight (I don't think Troi would have the requisite ruthless streak, though). :)
"Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy." - Lincoln.

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Re: Design your own Small Council (Game of Thrones, RAR).

Post by Simon_Jester » 2018-03-09 05:10pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-03-09 05:00pm
I actually think Bashire would be a pretty solid choice. I think Seven of Nine has a pretty broad knowledge base and skill set too.
I believe you about Bashir. Seven didn't cross my mind; I wasn't really thinking about Voyager characters.
Why not the EMH, though? Is it just concerns about tech. malfunctions with no way to repair them, or is it a personality issue?
Both. The EMH's technology is more fragile and bleeding-edge, whereas Data has, as of TNG, been functional for something like 20-30 years without any major meltdowns. The EMH had some kind of meltdown multiple times during the series. Combine this with his personality issues, and I wouldn't trust him to manage or lead an organization. While the Grand Maester doesn't strictly speaking command all the maesters or anything, it's still a responsible position, I suspect he has a staff and gives people orders and so on.

The key is, he's not just the king's doctor the way that a Star Trek CMO is "the ship's doctor."
Master of Laws: If I didn't think we needed Picard in the top slot, I'd put him here. As it is... um, legal talent is not really a major area for our protagonists. I'm not sure what to do with this one. If I were going to bring in TOS characters I'd make this Spock's job, because he would be very rigorous about enforcement even if his ethics caused him to change laws in unusual ways.
Spock is actually alive still in the TNG era. I'd take Spock.
[grunt]

Good point. He's in.
Master of Whispers: Sisko, insofar as he is the most skilled at intrigue and the most willing to 'go dark.' Still a tough, idealistic character, but more capable in this arena than others.
I'm shocked you didn't think of Garrak.
He's not Starfleet, which is why I didn't think of him. If I bring in non-Starfleet characters he is obviously unsuitable for the position due to being grossly overqualified. :P :D
Though I'd actually be inclined to go with a Vulcan or Betazed for the mind-reading potentials. Sure, no one would take Troi seriously as a spymaster- but the best spies hide in plain sight (I don't think Troi would have the requisite ruthless streak, though). :)
Vulcans have ethical hangups about using the mind meld, plus it can affect them pretty heavily. If there were ANY prominent Betazoid characters suitable for the job I'd take them, but I simply don't think Troi is that person. The only other non-bit-characters I know who are telepaths are Spock (taken), Lwaxana (OH GOD NO), and Tuvok. Who is not the worst possible choice, but might not really be someone you WANT, especially if Garak or for that matter Sisko are available. Tuvok is... inflexible.
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Re: Design your own Small Council (Game of Thrones, RAR).

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-03-09 05:48pm

Simon_Jester wrote:
2018-03-09 05:10pm
I believe you about Bashir. Seven didn't cross my mind; I wasn't really thinking about Voyager characters.
Dr. Julian Bashire would be a superb choice. He is thoroughly competent (as much as any Starfleet doctor working without their usual gadgets, anyway) to handle the medical duties, he has a wide range of other skills (due to both his education and genetic enhancements), he has considerable personal integrity, but he can handle cloak and dagger shit if he has to (see Dominion War missions, friendship with Garak, and tangling with Section 31).

The only thing I'm a little iffy on his handling the larger administrative duties you mention, but he was CMO for a fairly sizeable space station for seven years.
Both. The EMH's technology is more fragile and bleeding-edge, whereas Data has, as of TNG, been functional for something like 20-30 years without any major meltdowns. The EMH had some kind of meltdown multiple times during the series. Combine this with his personality issues, and I wouldn't trust him to manage or lead an organization. While the Grand Maester doesn't strictly speaking command all the maesters or anything, it's still a responsible position, I suspect he has a staff and gives people orders and so on.
Fair enough.
The key is, he's not just the king's doctor the way that a Star Trek CMO is "the ship's doctor."
Yeah.

And IIRC Maesters are more than just doctors- they're doctors and also general purpose consultants/advisors. And they handle the messenger ravens too, don't they?
Good point. He's in.

He's not Starfleet, which is why I didn't think of him. If I bring in non-Starfleet characters he is obviously unsuitable for the position due to being grossly overqualified. :P :D
Heh.

He'd be a good pick if you add Bashire though, due to their mutual camaraderie and history working together. But perhaps too much of a wild card. You also have to handwave the issues someone visibly and non-disguiseably non-human would cause in Westeros, of course. Ditto Worf.

Hmm... that reminds me: you've left Commander of the Kingsguard blank. While I suppose you can just use local talent, I'm interested as to who would fill that role.

Worf is the obvious choice, but he's too necessary for the Master of Ships slot. Still... if you need someone to loyally swing a sword, think Klingons. I'd say Martok, if it wasn't arguably a posting beneath him.
Vulcans have ethical hangups about using the mind meld, plus it can affect them pretty heavily. If there were ANY prominent Betazoid characters suitable for the job I'd take them, but I simply don't think Troi is that person.
Fair enough, though the potential of a Betazed's abilities is tempting (as is the fact that it would mean the council wasn't completely lacking in female representation).
The only other non-bit-characters I know who are telepaths are Spock (taken), Lwaxana (OH GOD NO), and Tuvok. Who is not the worst possible choice, but might not really be someone you WANT, especially if Garak or for that matter Sisko are available. Tuvok is... inflexible.
Tuvok is, however, a trained and experienced security officer, including stints of detective and undercover spy work. His personality may be an issue, but his credentials extend well beyond his telepathic abilities.

Hmm, Star Trek is actually probably the best franchise for this (Prime Directive issues aside ;) ), due to the shear scope of the franchise and the range of personalities and talents available giving you a lot of options and talent to choose from.

Thinking it over, I think I'd do a list that is... about half Simon_Jester's original list, and about two-thirds the modified one.

King: Picard.

Hand: Riker. Not my favorite character, but I'm hard-pressed to think of a better executive for this era. Well, Kira might be better (especially since her psychological baggage to do with Bajor and Cardassia wouldn't be a factor here), but Riker has already got a good working relationship with Picard.

More cynically, but realistically, you'd probably be hard pressed to find one Westrosi lord who would take a woman seriously as Hand (well, in any of these posts, but especially Hand I think), though the idealist in me wants to say "fuck them".

Grand Maester: Bashire.

Commander of the Kingsguard: Since Worf is taken, I'm actually going to go with the left-field option of Jadzia Dax, since IIRC she was fairly good at the Klingon hand-to-hand stuff. Also, has an established working relationship with both Worf and Bashire.

Master of Laws: Spock.

Master of Coin: Data.

Master of Ships: Worf.

Master of Whispers: Tuvok.
"Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy." - Lincoln.

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Re: Design your own Small Council (Game of Thrones, RAR).

Post by Simon_Jester » 2018-03-09 06:33pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-03-09 05:48pm
Dr. Julian Bashire would be a superb choice. He is thoroughly competent (as much as any Starfleet doctor working without their usual gadgets, anyway) to handle the medical duties, he has a wide range of other skills (due to both his education and genetic enhancements), he has considerable personal integrity, but he can handle cloak and dagger shit if he has to (see Dominion War missions, friendship with Garak, and tangling with Section 31).
I believe you, I just... my viewing of DS9 is SUPER patchy.
The key is, he's not just the king's doctor the way that a Star Trek CMO is "the ship's doctor."
Yeah.

And IIRC Maesters are more than just doctors- they're doctors and also general purpose consultants/advisors. And they handle the messenger ravens too, don't they?
It's a reasonable assumption that the Grand Maester can have a subordinate handle the specific task of raven-tending. It's everything else that's important.

One point to make is that obviously the dynamics are going to be different in a Council made of Star Trek characters than of Westerosi. It's pretty much inevitable- in Westeros, the maesters are the only ones who really have an advanced liberal arts education, whereas any Starfleet officer probably knows enough science and general medicine (if not surgery) to fulfill the duties of Grand Maester adequately.
He'd be a good pick if you add Bashire though, due to their mutual camaraderie and history working together. But perhaps too much of a wild card. You also have to handwave the issues someone visibly and non-disguiseably non-human would cause in Westeros, of course. Ditto Worf.
Worf's visible inhumanity, and super-humanity in physical combat, would certainly cause issues. I can't decide whether Garak would face more, or less, issues playing spymaster under similar circumstances.
Hmm... that reminds me: you've left Commander of the Kingsguard blank. While I suppose you can just use local talent, I'm interested as to who would fill that role.
Honestly my advice is to go for local talent- assuming there's still a Kingsguard in recognizable condition after whatever weird reality warp put a bunch of Star Trek characters in charge. There are a reasonably good supply of extremely honorable knights suitable for the Kingsguard at (more or less) all times in Westeros.
Fair enough, though the potential of a Betazed's abilities is tempting (as is the fact that it would mean the council wasn't completely lacking in female representation).
I'd like to fix that but I'm restricted in my available source material. The female characters available who have anything remotely resembling suitability for the scale of responsibility involved are... Janeway (eeehhh), Seven (suitable for Grand Maester, we could put her there and bump Bashir to spymaster if we're trying to avoid obvious nonhumans), Dax (in Dax's DS9-era hosts), Kira Nerys (hmm, there's a dark horse candidate from my point of view)... ahh. Let's kill two birds with one stone.

Put Tasha Yar in charge of the Trekkesque Kingsguard. Closest we can come to Brienne of Tarth.
Tuvok is, however, a trained and experienced security officer, including stints of detective and undercover spy work. His personality may be an issue, but his credentials extend well beyond his telepathic abilities.
Hmm, I think Tuvok would be a good choice, if Garak doesn't get the job.
Commander of the Kingsguard: Since Worf is taken, I'm actually going to go with the left-field option of Jadzia Dax, since IIRC she was fairly good at the Klingon hand-to-hand stuff. Also, has an established working relationship with both Worf and Bashire.
Hm, I think she could do it, but I think I'd rather have Yar, among other things because the person the commander of the Kingsguard really needs a working relationship with is the king.
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Re: Design your own Small Council (Game of Thrones, RAR).

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-03-09 06:53pm

Simon_Jester wrote:
2018-03-09 06:33pm
I believe you, I just... my viewing of DS9 is SUPER patchy.
So is mine, to be honest. Or rather, I watched it a lot about fifteen years ago, and my memory of it is rather patchy. :wink:

A lot of what I do know is courtesy of the SF Debris video reviews, plus web debates and fanfics.

I really ought to go back and re-watch it though, or at least the better episodes.
It's a reasonable assumption that the Grand Maester can have a subordinate handle the specific task of raven-tending. It's everything else that's important.

One point to make is that obviously the dynamics are going to be different in a Council made of Star Trek characters than of Westerosi. It's pretty much inevitable- in Westeros, the maesters are the only ones who really have an advanced liberal arts education, whereas any Starfleet officer probably knows enough science and general medicine (if not surgery) to fulfill the duties of Grand Maester adequately.
Pretty much, yeah. Though maybe not the medical expertise, outside of medical officers.
Worf's visible inhumanity, and super-humanity in physical combat, would certainly cause issues. I can't decide whether Garak would face more, or less, issues playing spymaster under similar circumstances.
Eh... Worf looks outwardly human aside from the forehead ridges. You could probably pass him off as a Summer Islander with a facial deformity, as long as no one operated on or dissected him (in which case, you have a rather more immediate problem than his non-human nature being recognized :D ). Klingons are supposed to be superhumanly strong and tough, but we see humans beat them in hand to hand on multiple occasions. I doubt Worf would outclass the average man physically more than, say, the Mountain would.

Actually, now I really want to see Worf duel the Mountain in trial by combat, after telling the Mountain that he is without honor. 8)
Honestly my advice is to go for local talent- assuming there's still a Kingsguard in recognizable condition after whatever weird reality warp put a bunch of Star Trek characters in charge. There are a reasonably good supply of extremely honorable knights suitable for the Kingsguard at (more or less) all times in Westeros.
True, that.
I'd like to fix that but I'm restricted in my available source material. The female characters available who have anything remotely resembling suitability for the scale of responsibility involved are... Janeway (eeehhh), Seven (suitable for Grand Maester, we could put her there and bump Bashir to spymaster if we're trying to avoid obvious nonhumans), Dax (in Dax's DS9-era hosts), Kira Nerys (hmm, there's a dark horse candidate from my point of view)... ahh. Let's kill two birds with one stone.

Put Tasha Yar in charge of the Trekkesque Kingsguard. Closest we can come to Brienne of Tarth.
I did think of Yar, but the problem is that she's pretty much only in half of TNG's generally-recognized shittiest season. We just don't know that much about her abilities, without bringing non-canon sources into it.
Hmm, I think Tuvok would be a good choice, if Garak doesn't get the job.
Tuvok would also likely find it easier to work with Federation officers on a regular basis than Garak. Especially since we're talking Picard here, who is probably less... morally flexible, than Sisko.
Hm, I think she could do it, but I think I'd rather have Yar, among other things because the person the commander of the Kingsguard really needs a working relationship with is the king.
True.

Man, if I wasn't so busy with both off-line stuff and unfinished fics I haven't updated in a while, I'd definitely write a Star Trek/GOT crossover. The contrast between Trek idealism and GoT's more barbaric and cynical world is a wonderful foundation for a story.
"Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy." - Lincoln.

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Re: Design your own Small Council (Game of Thrones, RAR).

Post by Simon_Jester » 2018-03-09 07:36pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-03-09 06:53pm
Eh... Worf looks outwardly human aside from the forehead ridges. You could probably pass him off as a Summer Islander with a facial deformity, as long as no one operated on or dissected him (in which case, you have a rather more immediate problem than his non-human nature being recognized :D ). Klingons are supposed to be superhumanly strong and tough, but we see humans beat them in hand to hand on multiple occasions. I doubt Worf would outclass the average man physically more than, say, the Mountain would.

Actually, now I really want to see Worf duel the Mountain in trial by combat, after telling the Mountain that he is without honor. 8)
So do I. So do I.
I did think of Yar, but the problem is that she's pretty much only in half of TNG's generally-recognized shittiest season. We just don't know that much about her abilities, without bringing non-canon sources into it.
I watched her appearances not hat long ago. She seems reasonably competent at her job, and she's got a certain... fierceness... in most of her appearances. The character has some embarrassingly bad moments due to terrible Season One writing, but Denise Crosby definitely acted her as the kind of person you could want for that job. Someone who could have filled the roles written for Worf, except obviously for the 'Klingon culture' episodes.
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