Justice League Release Thread

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Justice League Release Thread

Post by GuppyShark » 2017-11-18 03:52am

...

This is a trainwreck of a film. Turns out changing directors mid-film let the studio hijack the film and try to stick a square peg in a round hole.

I'm honestly really upset with this final product. I can see the elements of a good movie but now it's just a bunch of random scenes thrown together without a cohesive vision, with half hearted exposition scenes thrown in to justify the cuts. I could rant at length. Why do they keep letting Snyder pitch a 3 hour movie and then demand it be cut to 2?

MoS and BvS were flawed but (IMO) good movies. This wasn't even that. It was worse than Suicide Squad. Visually unimpressive villain with very few worthwhile lines of dialogue, tons of weird greenscreen closeups of people quipping one liners (I assume those are the reshoots), and I won't even dare speculate about who dictated the actual resurrection arc.

It's like DC is actively trying to be the Pepsi to Disney's Coke, instead of trying to be something worthwhile outside that formula.

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Re: Justice League Release Thread

Post by mr friendly guy » 2017-11-18 04:02am

So I guess not worth going to see it then?
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Re: Justice League Release Thread

Post by Dartzap » 2017-11-18 04:13am

X post from elsewhere, no idea if spoilers needed or not, heh
Spoiler
Saw Justice League earlier (only six people in the screen on opening day, and I get in for free, looool)
It's.... not the worst film ever, has some interesting ideas in how to show the strength difference between *Supes and the rest of the gang.

Opening sequence was probably the best bit, and that's only because it was reminiscent of Watchmen.

It's very rare that I say it of a film these days, but it really could have done with an extra 45mins for fleshing out. Felt very rushed.

Humour is piss poor

*shock, horror - no one saw that coming!

2/5 Would watch Ragnorak again.
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Re: Justice League Release Thread

Post by GuppyShark » 2017-11-18 04:16am

I've told my friends to save their money.

Superhero films I have liked, to calibrate: Thor 3, Batman vs Superman, Wonder Woman, Avengers 1, Iron Man 1, Man of Steel, Civil War.

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Re: Justice League Release Thread

Post by Gandalf » 2017-11-18 10:02pm

I really liked it. The opening was weirdly dark, but it was fun and it didn't just become the Batman & Friends film.

There's certainly bits that can be improved, but it was good fun nonetheless.
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Re: Justice League Release Thread

Post by TheFeniX » 2017-11-18 11:14pm

People will probably hate me for saying this: Whereas I will not buy the games due to WBs gouging bullshit, the Injustice games, 2 especially, were REALLY good movies if you just watch the youtube videos of all the cutscenes. Not all that related: Also has the best exchange ever during one of the pre-fight back-and-forths:

Superman: "Harley. Want to hear a joke?"
Harley Quinn: "This outta be somthin.'"
:Superman breaks Kryptonite handcuffs:
"Harley Quinn vs Superman."

So... can they just make that. Because these total trainwrecks they've been bothering with. I mean, I guess they could keep doing that, but I'd rather see something decent.

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Re: Justice League Release Thread

Post by bilateralrope » 2017-11-18 11:40pm

Dartzap wrote:
2017-11-18 04:13am
It's very rare that I say it of a film these days, but it really could have done with an extra 45mins for fleshing out. Felt very rushed.
One complaint I've heard about a lot of the recent DC movies is that they are missing scenes. That they are improved with scenes that aren't in the theatrical release, but do make their way onto the DVD/blu-ray release. I'm starting to wonder if that's an intentional move to boost DVD sales.

It's not like it would be the most greedy move that WB has made this year.

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Re: Justice League Release Thread

Post by mr friendly guy » 2017-11-19 12:06am

TheFeniX wrote:
2017-11-18 11:14pm
People will probably hate me for saying this: Whereas I will not buy the games due to WBs gouging bullshit, the Injustice games, 2 especially, were REALLY good movies if you just watch the youtube videos of all the cutscenes. Not all that related: Also has the best exchange ever during one of the pre-fight back-and-forths:

Superman: "Harley. Want to hear a joke?"
Harley Quinn: "This outta be somthin.'"
:Superman breaks Kryptonite handcuffs:
"Harley Quinn vs Superman."

So... can they just make that. Because these total trainwrecks they've been bothering with. I mean, I guess they could keep doing that, but I'd rather see something decent.
Hey, someone else who likes watching cutscenes on youtube. :wink:
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Re: Justice League Release Thread

Post by Vendetta » 2017-11-19 03:14am

TheFeniX wrote:
2017-11-18 11:14pm
People will probably hate me for saying this: Whereas I will not buy the games due to WBs gouging bullshit, the Injustice games, 2 especially, were REALLY good movies if you just watch the youtube videos of all the cutscenes. Not all that related: Also has the best exchange ever during one of the pre-fight back-and-forths:

Superman: "Harley. Want to hear a joke?"
Harley Quinn: "This outta be somthin.'"
:Superman breaks Kryptonite handcuffs:
"Harley Quinn vs Superman."

So... can they just make that. Because these total trainwrecks they've been bothering with. I mean, I guess they could keep doing that, but I'd rather see something decent.
Injustice actually also has a really good comic series, which has even better snark from Harley.

Image

Image

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Re: Justice League Release Thread

Post by mr friendly guy » 2017-11-19 09:57am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCKqgCMXouA

Grace Randolph has given a run down on the box office for Justice League. Hint, its not good.
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Re: Justice League Release Thread

Post by Broomstick » 2017-11-19 11:07am

Damn, I had such hopes after Wonder Woman.
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Re: Justice League Release Thread

Post by Q99 » 2017-11-19 11:36am

It sounds like they got the characters right, it's just people have lost faith in the non-wondy bits of the universe after the prior flicks.

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Re: Justice League Release Thread

Post by EnterpriseSovereign » 2017-11-19 11:53am

This answers my question of whether it's worth going to see (probably won't)- this film has been advertised on TV constantly for the past two weeks, compared to Thor which seemingly has been advertised exclusively online (and was awesome).

It hasn't escaped my notice that this is the 6th superhero film released this year after Logan, GotG2, Wonder Woman, Homecoming, and Ragnarok (matching last year, which must be a record in itself)- though thankfully this year only one was terrible.
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Re: Justice League Release Thread

Post by TheFeniX » 2017-11-19 03:55pm

mr friendly guy wrote:
2017-11-19 12:06am
Hey, someone else who likes watching cutscenes on youtube. :wink:
If I'm going to talk mad shit about something I won't spend money on, I might as well at least see all I can about it first.
Vendetta wrote:
2017-11-19 03:14am
Injustice actually also has a really good comic series, which has even better snark from Harley.
I've heard. There's even more than a few references such as a back and forth between Green Arrow and Black Canaary:
"You've been a bad boy."
"The safeword is ArrowCave."
And Jefferey Combs as Brainaic kills it.

The game has a couple really well done scenes that I find have been lacking in a lot of Comic movies in general since Netherealm seems to be stacked with fans and WB allows them to do whatever, then just comes over the top with the cashgrab bullshit. Some of the Batman/Superman stuff is Aces.
Spoiler
"Why'd you keep it?"
"Keep what?"
:Superman pulls back the cloth covering the table they've been planning at, revealing the Justice League Table, cracked down the middle."
"Huh, forgot that was there."
:Batman walks off:
The emotion transition WRT Superman's character model is what really sold me NethRealm really upped their game to address complains from the first.

Also of note:
Batman: "That was a good memory."
Superman: "From another lifetime."
Batman: "I miss the people we were then."
Superman: "Me too."
And then Superman sucker-punchers the SHIT out of Batman.
And that's kind of the whole thing. Movies these days seem more about shoe-horning scenes in without any fucks to give about why the characters are doing what they are doing. And no one acts like how they should act. Meanwhile, in a goddamn fighting game, there are contrived moments, but they at least are explained and characters react how (at least I) think they should and I never got the feeling someone was doing something just because the writers wanted this specific scene to happen.

Maybe with Reverse Flash. That shit came outta no-where, but as said it's still at least explained.

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Re: Justice League Release Thread

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2017-11-19 06:52pm

I am trying to pay exactly zero attention to critical reviews. And let me just say that I really fucking hate it when the internet bandwagon decides a movie sucks and a bunch of people write it off without having seen it.

For the record, every single DC film in the current continuity, minus Wonder Woman, has gotten mixed critical reviews at best. Of those, I found one awful (Suicide Squad), one tolerable but deeply flawed (Man of Steel), and one overall quite good, if someone poorly-constructed (Batman v Superman). While the one that probably got the best reviews (Wonder Woman), fell below Batman v Superman for me, due to some poor thematic choices/inconsistencies.

Also, here is a (probably incomplete) list of movies I very much liked that the internet bandwagon decreed were Bad Movies:

-Iron Man 3.
-I, Robot.
-Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End.
-X-Men 3.
-Attack of the Clones.

So... yeah. I'm going to wait until I either a read review from someone reasonably trustworthy which gives specific, damning criticisms of the film that I agree with, or until I've seen it. Because I think this is a film that a lot of people had decided to rip into before the ever saw it, either based on their views of prior films or (in the case of critics), genre-snobiness in general.

Maybe it sucks. But I'll wait before making that judgment.

Edit: I'll add that every specific criticism the OP makes would also apply to Batman v Superman, which I enjoyed despite its flaws, and which sets the bench mark of my expectations for the DC film universe.
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Re: Justice League Release Thread

Post by Batman » 2017-11-19 07:10pm

While I'll happily agree one shouldn't judge a movie before having seen it, the DCEU hasn't given viewers any incentive to be hopeful. MoS sucked, BvS sucked even more, Suicide Squad worked because it was the only movie for which the Grimdark approach was appropriate. So far the only thing they got right was Diana.
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Re: Justice League Release Thread

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2017-11-19 07:17pm

Eh, you're welcome to your opinion of course, but I'd rate the DCEU as follows, roughly:

Suicide Squad: 2/10.
MoS: 4.5/10.
Wonder Woman: 6/10.
Batman v Superman: 6.5/10.

For an average score (rounded up) of 5/10.

And I like Affleck Batman, as well as Diana.

Edit: The only one I actively despise is Suicide Squad.
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Re: Justice League Release Thread

Post by Batman » 2017-11-19 07:28pm

And you're welcome to yours. Prior to Diana the only DCEU movie that worked was Suicide Squad. MoS and BvS were instruction manuals on how NOT to do a Superman movie.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'

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Re: Justice League Release Thread

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2017-11-19 07:36pm

If its not too off-topic, could you elaborate? What was wrong with the depiction of Superman specifically?

Although, I would say that Batman v Superman is arguably more of a Batman film than a Superman film anyway. The story begins with Batman's origin, then proceeds straight to the beginning of his feud with Superman, from his point of view. And the ending of the film can be taken as a Christ analogy, with Superman dying for and redeeming humanity, as personified by Batman. Because what the film is, ultimately, is the story of Batman's fall and redemption.

It just gets kind of lost because the film tries to be several other things as well without being very well-constructed. For example, we don't know Bruce pre-Superman well enough for his fall and redemption to carry the weight that it might.
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Re: Justice League Release Thread

Post by TheFeniX » 2017-11-19 07:50pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2017-11-19 06:52pm
I am trying to pay exactly zero attention to critical reviews.

:snip:

Also, here is a (probably incomplete) list of movies I very much liked that the internet bandwagon decreed were Bad Movies:
X3 was a total trainwreck ruined by tons of executive meddling among other things. But the point is that there's nothing wrong with liking something bad, but many movie critics do not understand this.

That said, I agree with you about most reviewers being garbage. I enjoyed all the other movies you listed, to varying degrees. But many critics focus on one thing: either the technical aspects of the movie or ignore those in favor of the "cool moments" or getting wraped in a a plot so convoluted, they think it's "cerebral." They either can't or won't analyze a movie on multiple levels.

I will say, I am way out of the loop now, the annoying "copy and paste" rave reviews of Dark Knight was what completely soured me on movie reviews with the exception of one reviewer. Ebert dieing totally made me fuck off. I don't even bother with them anymore.

This is why, to this day, I always enjoyed reading Ebert even though I rarely agreed with him. He's liked movies that were technical and visual trainwrecks, while ALSO pointing out the problems. And on the flip side, he hates movies that do it "right" but still fail for being uninteresting, among other things.

His review of "Scary Movie" (IMHO) is basically a textbook on how to review a movie. And that movie was a popular punching bag at the time.

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Re: Justice League Release Thread

Post by Q99 » 2017-11-19 11:07pm

Not the one you asked, but my thoughts on Superman is they wrote his actual actions and decisions as a rookie hero with a lot of power who doesn't exactly know what he's doing tactically or in moral calls, having a lot of uncertainty and rough edges on both. Which is an interesting character, but conversely it had people acting like he was the iconic symbol of hope for it or having a backlash against that symbol. So they used existing history and people's familiarity to skip to iconicness but then played against type, so there was a clash where they're both using the history and subverting it at the same time on the same part of his character and that doesn't work so well.

bilateralrope wrote:
2017-11-18 11:40pm
One complaint I've heard about a lot of the recent DC movies is that they are missing scenes. That they are improved with scenes that aren't in the theatrical release, but do make their way onto the DVD/blu-ray release. I'm starting to wonder if that's an intentional move to boost DVD sales.

It's not like it would be the most greedy move that WB has made this year.
That'd be an exceptionally foolish approach, considering how much a movie's buzz is based on how much people like it in theaters.

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Re: Justice League Release Thread

Post by GuppyShark » 2017-11-20 12:54am

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2017-11-19 06:52pm
So... yeah. I'm going to wait until I either a read review from someone reasonably trustworthy which gives specific, damning criticisms of the film that I agree with, or until I've seen it. Because I think this is a film that a lot of people had decided to rip into before the ever saw it, either based on their views of prior films or (in the case of critics), genre-snobiness in general.

Maybe it sucks. But I'll wait before making that judgment.

Edit: I'll add that every specific criticism the OP makes would also apply to Batman v Superman, which I enjoyed despite its flaws, and which sets the bench mark of my expectations for the DC film universe.
This is a good attitude to have. Ultimately the only true judge of a film is the viewer. I can only confirm I did not walk into the cinema expecting or hoping to be negative about it.

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Re: Justice League Release Thread

Post by K. A. Pital » 2017-11-20 03:37am

DC films just suck, no way around it. Sadly I was subjected to an “abridged” version of “Justice Lolwhat”, but even that was absolutely cringeworthy.

Watching 5 minutes of Justice League is enough to ask for money back.

Compared to Thor Ragnarok, which was worth its money and then some.

I wish someone would just stop making these awful movies, but they wouldn’t, right?
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Re: Justice League Release Thread

Post by Simon_Jester » 2017-11-20 06:49am

How was the abridgement done, anyway? Did they pick the first five minutes? The worst five? Did you just watch all the trailers?
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Re: Justice League Release Thread

Post by Crazedwraith » 2017-11-20 07:21am

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2017-11-19 07:36pm
It just gets kind of lost because the film tries to be several other things as well without being very well-constructed. For example, we don't know Bruce pre-Superman well enough for his fall and redemption to carry the weight that it might.
I think you've got a good handle on the flaws of BvS there. I'm wondering why and what positives there are that out weighs those flaws for you?
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