Thor - Ragnarok (Almost certainly spoilers)

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Re: Thor - Ragnarok (Almost certainly spoilers)

Post by ANGELUS » 2017-11-09 01:17pm

EnterpriseSovereign wrote:
2017-11-02 02:01pm
........ I knew it was more likely that the Soul Stone would appear in Black Panther, since Thor already got one in the form of The Aether.
I'm wondering... would it be possible that the Eternal Flame is the Soul Stone? after all, the godess of death used it to bring back to "life" a bunch of dead soldiers... and whatever it was, it was indeed powerful enough so that she tought the Tessaract was not as impressive. And it would not be the first time one of the stones is not a solid object.
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Re: Thor - Ragnarok (Almost certainly spoilers)

Post by Vendetta » 2017-11-09 02:15pm

I'm still of the opinion that Heimdall has the soul stone and it is the source of his ability to see anyone in the nine realms.

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Re: Thor - Ragnarok (Almost certainly spoilers)

Post by EnterpriseSovereign » 2017-11-09 02:21pm

Vendetta wrote:
2017-11-09 02:15pm
I'm still of the opinion that Heimdall has the soul stone and it is the source of his ability to see anyone in the nine realms.
Thing is, Elba/Heimdall isn't on the cast list for either BP or IW.
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Re: Thor - Ragnarok (Almost certainly spoilers)

Post by Khaat » 2017-11-09 02:30pm

Could end up a mid-credits or post-credits scene of Black Panther. Hemsworth wasn't listed in the Doctor Strange credits, either.
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Re: Thor - Ragnarok (Almost certainly spoilers)

Post by Civil War Man » 2017-11-09 03:36pm

ANGELUS wrote:
2017-11-09 01:17pm
I'm wondering... would it be possible that the Eternal Flame is the Soul Stone? after all, the godess of death used it to bring back to "life" a bunch of dead soldiers... and whatever it was, it was indeed powerful enough so that she tought the Tessaract was not as impressive. And it would not be the first time one of the stones is not a solid object.
I would doubt it, since the reason the Aether was given to the Collector was because it was deemed too dangerous to keep more than one stone in the same place. It would seem short-sighted of Odin to put all of the 9 realms at risk just to avoid admitting to Thor that he already had the Soul Stone in his vault when Thor returned with Loki and the Tesseract.

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Re: Thor - Ragnarok (Almost certainly spoilers)

Post by Crazedwraith » 2017-11-09 03:49pm

Plus the 'Eternal' flames blowed up real good.
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Re: Thor - Ragnarok (Almost certainly spoilers)

Post by NeoGoomba » 2017-11-10 07:56am

So is poor Sutur just floating in space now? It's such an amusing mental image of this formidable demon pulling a Bender and just adrift throughout the cosmos playing a grand piano. A PIANO OF HELLFIRE
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Re: Thor - Ragnarok (Almost certainly spoilers)

Post by FaxModem1 » 2017-11-10 10:52pm

I saw it last night. I enjoyed it, but man, that old Marvel formula of underselling the drama strikes again. Every single time there's going to be a serious joke, they undersell it for a joke, and it cuts out all the drama. Asgard, Thor and Loki's home gets destroyed? Who cares, because it's time for a joke from the giant Rock guy played by the director.

I get it, Marvel, you don't want to be dark and gloomy, but geez, these things need to feel a bit serious or we just won't care.
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Re: Thor - Ragnarok (Almost certainly spoilers)

Post by K. A. Pital » 2017-11-18 03:05pm

It was by far the best Thor film.

Trying to make these stories serious... would simply stop making them work.

It doesn't work. It is an American comic book about a guy who looks like a Norse god. It is ridiculous from the start. So the film did it as much justice as it could.

Hail Goldblum.

Oh and Blanchett was so great as Hela.
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Re: Thor - Ragnarok (Almost certainly spoilers)

Post by Crazedwraith » 2017-11-18 03:17pm

It's remarkable how much people's views on comic book movies have changed. It used to be every new movie, even the campy spider-man ones was hailed for how seriously they took their subject matter and how great that was.

Now they've wedged their way into popular culture and everyone's 'well there's no way you could take this seriously!'

Previous movies managed to strike a better balance for me, in that there was fun and funny bits but they didn't impact or undermine the series moments and character work.
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Re: Thor - Ragnarok (Almost certainly spoilers)

Post by K. A. Pital » 2017-11-18 05:02pm

I don't think that this film undermined the characters as much as it made them more relatable.

DC's Superman/Batman films were so bad because you couldn't relate to the actors stone-faced epic speeches, so Marvel got perhaps a bit overboard trying to lean in the other direction.

But the other direction works, while serious superhero films don't work as good as they used to. Yes, Spiderman was a thing, as was Nolan's Batman series. By part 3 Spiderman was weak and had two reboots. "The Dark Night" was great because of Joker. Once Ledger's Joker was gone, the next film could no longer compete - and, overall, sucked.

It is not as if seriousness hasn't been tried. It was simply outcompeted from the market.
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Re: Thor - Ragnarok (Almost certainly spoilers)

Post by Napoleon the Clown » 2017-11-18 10:04pm

I saw it last Saturday, but neglected to post any of my thoughts until now.

It was fun, it was funny, and Jeff Goldblum was obviously having a blast throughout. There wasn't anything I especially disliked about it, really. I wouldn't exactly call it the peak of cinematic excellence, but it accomplished what it set out to for me.

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Re: Thor - Ragnarok (Almost certainly spoilers)

Post by Broomstick » 2017-11-18 11:38pm

I thought it captured the feel of the mainline Marvel comic books from the 1970's through the 1980's. Definitely going to add a copy to my library.
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Re: Thor - Ragnarok (Almost certainly spoilers)

Post by Shroom Man 777 » 2017-11-22 01:42pm

K. A. Pital wrote:
2017-11-18 05:02pm
But the other direction works, while serious superhero films don't work as good as they used to. Yes, Spiderman was a thing, as was Nolan's Batman series. By part 3 Spiderman was weak and had two reboots. "The Dark Night" was great because of Joker. Once Ledger's Joker was gone, the next film could no longer compete - and, overall, sucked.

It is not as if seriousness hasn't been tried. It was simply outcompeted from the market.
I think it's just "third installment" syndrome. Studios wanting it to be bigger and badder. Not merely being serious. If Spiderman 3 just focused on Sandman instead of the Venom stuff, if The Dark Knight Rises was less trying hard "epic" (I would've wanted some cerebral FBI profiler turned obsessed scary mindhunter Riddler), they would've been magnificent bookends to the character arcs.
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Now they've wedged their way into popular culture and everyone's 'well there's no way you could take this seriously!'
It's economically feasible for mass production in a Marvel-like high-quality factory setting, since a Nolan is pretty much hard to mass produce, it counts as artisanal and organic, that kind of stuff really takes time and effort and a lot of writing to create, so the Marvel studios method can't work for that, whereas keeping it funny and that blend Marvel's got makes their movies more than acceptable enough while decreasing the workload of the director and writers (add some funnies here, some seriousness here, lotsa references, viola).
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Re: Thor - Ragnarok (Almost certainly spoilers)

Post by Alkaloid » 2017-11-29 08:19am

I think it's just "third installment" syndrome. Studios wanting it to be bigger and badder.
The Thor films kind of have an advantage there too, given they first instalment pretty much started at 'Shakespearian epic' and so all they really had to do was scale sideways into 'more skulls' and 'slightly sillier' instead of up and risk being overly hammy.

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Re: Thor - Ragnarok (Almost certainly spoilers)

Post by LadyTevar » 2017-12-09 08:36pm

This movie rocked. My breakdown:
The comedy mostly nailed it, although the hanging on a chain bit with Surtur was distracting. Loved how the dragon flew... and how it died.
First look at Skurge and he screams "LACKEY".
I had to check the IMDB to be sure... Actors in the Play: Sam Neill, Matt Damon, Big Brother Luke Hemsworth.... *DIES LAUGHING* And the girls on the street? Another Hemsworth, Taylor.
Really fun game between Thor and Loki. (Mark off one Chekov's Gun as well.)

Expanded on the end-credits from GotG2, and again totally for giggles. Strange makes a great straightman for the jokes here. Poor Loki... :rolls: He's really batting zero here.
The Norway scenery makes me want to go find that cliffside and see the view. So sad, they really didn't have time to really understand or say goodbye. He was just there long enough to set up who Hela was and why she was important (and a second Chekov's Gun).

Enter Hela. She wasn't real impressed with her little brothers, was she. Real short fight too. Real brilliant to take her to Asgard.
And two of the Three Heroes go down without a fight. BOOO! Where was Lady Sif during this?

First look at Valkyrie ... I like her. I like her a lot. :-D Even if she was falling down drunk. Love her ship.

Switch to Asgard... and at least this member of the Three Heroes gets to fight. Again... where is Lady Sif? Wow, now we know why Hela earned the name "Goddess of Death". WE'd seen Loki pull blades out of nowhere, but this is terrifying. Hela even ignores a sword through her chest! 0_0
Skurge is starting to look a little concerned about the side he's chosen.

And next we have the 'tunnel of exposition', and I missed some of the dialogue when I realized they were playing "Pure Imagination" from Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. Hard to hear when you're stifling laughter ... and then Thor screams. :lol:
Jeff Goldblum steals the scenery, chews on it, and creates pure comedy gold here.
Korg is ... well, I don't know if he's pragmatic or just really that philosophical about his lot in life.

Switch to Asgard ... more carnage. Interesting how far Odin went to hide Hela. Fenrir/Fenris made me squee, and wonder if the Viking mythos had confused the Chaining of Fenrir for Hela's jailing. The walk down into Odin's Treasure Room also had me giggling... "Fake... weak ... thought he'd be bigger ... Innnteresting..."
UNDEAD FENRIS!!! I want a plushie of him!!!

More Valkyrie, where we get a touch of her backstory.
Another great Stan Lee cameo -- and he even made Thor beg. Anyone else notice the lines in Thor's haircut aren't even? The "V" on either side of his head point different ways! They go (>) and (<) :lol:

In Asgard, Heimdel now has the Bifrost Sword. Hela makes Skurge her Executioner. He's still not looking too sure about this.

AH, the big fight. Everything I wanted it to be, all of the trailer bits in it, nice touch with the "sun going down" reference ... and the literal shoutout to Loki's beatdown in Avengers. Lord of Thunder don't need no hammer! But the Gamesmaster is a cheater.

In Asgard, Heimdel is spiriting away citizens.

Hulk and Thor talk. So glad they kept the film PG, I also would not want naked Hulk inside my head. What is in my head is there were servant girls in his quarters ... and I had to wonder if like Roman gladiators Hulk got lots of ... fangirls. (I need brain bleach now).
Uh... didn't they find the Quinjet on the ocean floor at the end of Avengers:AoU? What's it doing here? What was on the ocean floor?

Didn't know Heimdel could share his vision, especially at that distance. Very nice ability. Put a second bullet in the second Chekov's gun.

More Valkyrie backstory. Once again, Thor mis-times the "That's what Heroes Do" line. Still a great escape scene for "Pointe Bank".
Now, is that the same video Widow did at the end of Avengers AoU? Did they redo it, or just re-edit it?
Hello Banner! Welcome to your first alien planet! And to missing two years of your life.

Well Well, when did Loki learn to trigger bad memories like that? Valkyrie is alive because one of her sisters (lovers?) saved her. Survivor's Guilt is a bitch.

And after a rehash of Thor and Hulk's conversation, the gang's all together, and of COURSE Loki had stolen the codes so he could steal a ship and run at his earliest convenience. Yes, Valkyrie, Bruce, you do feel like you know each other. "Get Help" is a classic, and so is the betrayal. As Thor said, you'd think Loki would learn and grow a little.
Very nice ship-to-ship battle. Loved the visuals!

In Asgard, Skurge has to play executioner, but gets a stay of execution. Again, he really seems to be regretting his choice.

The "REVENGERS" reach Asgard, and now the real fun starts.
Thor/Hela fight really felt like to powerful beings throwing down. She took his eye on purpose.
Fenris barely felt that gunfire, but I really thought Banner would do more than just ... flop...? I know in another movie he said he'd tried to kill himself once and the Hulk just spit out the bullet afterwards, but killing yourself to get the Big Guy to show up is ... drastic. If it weren't for seeing Banner in "Infinity War" trailers, I'd wonder if Banner survived.
Nice to see even civilian Asgardians can fight, but Loki saves the day (honestly, for once). Was he using his helmet as well as his knives? I think this is the first real fight we've seen him in since Thor dragged him to Jotunheim.
And Thor finally realizes his true Godhood. Cue "The Immigrant Song", which is really epic here for this battle. Great visuals with the lightning taking out multiple opponents.
Enter Valkyrie, sashaying into the fray.
More Loki, showing him holding his own and doing just as well as Heimdel.
Hulk vs Fenris would have been more fun if we could have seen more of it out of the water. Whoooops, waterfall! :lol:

Last stand against Hela. "I'm not doing 'Get Help' again," says Loki. Luckily, Thor's realized he's got two Chekov's Guns waiting to be fired.
Skurge has his Heel/Face turn, and saves the ship with Des and Troy. The trailers made you think he was totally on Hela's side all the way, but I liked how they played with his story and made you feel for him. He was just caught up in matters far over his paygrade, but he made the right choice at last.
I was worried for a second that Hulk was about to ruin everything! Surtur picked him off and threw him like a bug. 0_0

Korg's "foundation" speech was nice, I thought he meant the people behind him for a moment. Or maybe not.

Loki and Thor reunion, and it seems they might be brothers again. I wonder if Loki makes it to Earth, we know from "Infinity War" trailers that Thor doesn't. I think Loki knows exactly who's on that ship in the End Credits from the look of absolute horror on his face. Same look he had when he saw Hulk appear.
And Goldblum gets the Last Laugh. Pat on the back indeed.
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Re: Thor - Ragnarok (Almost certainly spoilers)

Post by madd0ct0r » 2017-12-10 07:34am

I fucking loved it.

It was lots of silly bleepy bloopy neon 1980s lights on the surface, and just beneath was a savage deconstrction and critisicim of the current world order.

The Gamemaster, appearing in giant holograms to his people urging them to rise up and take to the streets, represents the carnival aspects of politics, literalyl bread and circuses. "Slaves?" "uh, don't use the S word," "the prisoners with jobs," - if that isn't a crack at the American priate prison system I don't know what is. Even those with some power and self-agency like Scrapper 142 and Hulk are too busy self-anesthising to want to change the system.
And if you do manage to have the skill or the talent to rise above your role, the foppish, entitlighted political elite (the GrandMaster) cheats.


As well as things like "The immigrant song", the film ends with their homeland destroyed by the conflict between a bloodthirsty expansionist killer and a chaotic being of fire and destrcution. They are literally refugees on a boat trying to make it to a safe land. But they are nordic not syrians, and so the big white audience can emphathise.

Is Hela the military industrial complex, constantly dragging America into epansionist wars?
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Re: Thor - Ragnarok (Almost certainly spoilers)

Post by K. A. Pital » 2017-12-10 04:35pm

I think it was in general a critique of the Western civilization, dressed as a funny story.

The scrapyard was one facet, another was Asgard - a crude depiction of the West as well - having a violent backstory how "all that gold" turned to be in the gleaming beautiful city. Of course, being stolen from others subjugated under Asgard's military might.

Hela is much more than just an industrial complex. It is the historical violent colonialist, conqistadorial nature of "Asgard".

I do like Waititi.
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Re: Thor - Ragnarok (Almost certainly spoilers)

Post by amigocabal » 2017-12-11 03:55pm

K. A. Pital wrote:
2017-12-10 04:35pm
I think it was in general a critique of the Western civilization, dressed as a funny story.

The scrapyard was one facet, another was Asgard - a crude depiction of the West as well - having a violent backstory how "all that gold" turned to be in the gleaming beautiful city. Of course, being stolen from others subjugated under Asgard's military might.

Hela is much more than just an industrial complex. It is the historical violent colonialist, conqistadorial nature of "Asgard".

I do like Waititi.
It depicted more than the West- it was a depiction of humanity itself.

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