Harry Potter Fanfic Complaints and Criticism Thread.

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The Romulan Republic
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Harry Potter Fanfic Complaints and Criticism Thread.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

So, I was recently reading a very long thread over on the Spacebattles forums about Harry Potter fanfic (I don't have an SB account, but I sometimes browse it), and it reminded me of a lot of long-standing gripes I have about fan fic in general, and the Harry Potter fandom in particular.

I'm also writing a couple of Harry Potter crossovers myself at the moment, so that keeps the topic constantly in my mind as well.

Now, granted, a lot of these complaints could be made against the typical level of quality in fan fiction in general. And perhaps at some point, I'll start a general fanfic criticism thread.* But I find that Potter fan fiction has a particularly poor quality-to-shit ratio, and a particular toxic abundance of both factionalism and group-think, axes to grind, ham-fisted authorial soap-boxing, character bashing and whitewashing, gratuitous "shipping" (which can get especially creepy when most of the major characters are minors), general wish-fulfillment, mind-numbing clichés, lazy copy-catism, gratuitous grimdark and angst, outright perversity, and just good old-fashioned bad writing. To the point where, even where their are promising ideas, it is verging on impossible to find a story that, in execution, is not mentally, emotionally, and physically painful to read.

Some of that is undoubtably due to the simple size of the fandom, and some of it is undoubtably due to the fact that it tends to draw in the younger teen/"tween" crowd. Some of it is also probably due to the holes and inconsistencies in JK Rowling's own world-building. But regardless of the reason, the end result is the same: bad writing.

So why not just stop reading altogether? Because fanfic has potential, to explore new ideas; deconstruct, reconstruct, and reinterpret the story; and to help new writers exercise their talents. And nothing is sadder than wasted potential.

I realize that, as a Potter fanfic writer myself, this tract may be "biting the hand that feeds me", and it might well turn out to be sadly ironic/karmic when someone catches me making some of these mistakes myself (though I do try not to). But at some point, I just needed to grumble about it, and maybe try to channel that irritation into a productive discussion on how to improve the overall writing quality of fanfic.

Thus, I've created this thread. Feel free to post any complaints/criticisms of Harry Potter fanfic you have here, though I'm aiming more for criticism of common flaws/overall trends in the community than attacking particular stories. Feel free to post rebuttals to any criticisms you feel are unwarranted as well, of course.

To get the ball rolling, I'll post one of mine that, while seemingly innocuous in and of itself, grates on my nerves to a borderline-irrational degree. That being the use of the term "ward" or "wards" in Harry Potter fanfic. Its a term that appears nowhere in canon to my knowledge (certainly not in the books), is almost ubiquitous in fanfic (to the point that it seems to be added even when there's no real reason for it), and has thereby become emblematic, to me, of the tendency towards groupthink in the fanfic community, as well as the tendency of writers to try to elaborate on how magic works in the Potterverse by lifting things whole-cloth from other fandoms and/or pagan religious myths/practices and injecting them into the story, regardless of weather it fits or not.

I particularly hate the use of the term "blood wards" or similar to define the protections placed on Harry by Lily's sacrifice. It comes off, at best, as an attempt to reduce the more poetic/metaphysical significance of Lily's sacrifice to some dark spell or rite that can be more easily quantified, and I tend to take it as a red flag that the author is, if not part of the grimdark/moral relativist crowd, at least deficient in any romanticism or poetry. It also, to me, tends to come across as diminishing Lily, who I tend to regard as the true hero of the story in some respects.


*I've more than once toyed with the idea of trying to write a "fanfic writer's code of conduct", as a guideline to avoid writing shitty fanfics. I mean, if doctors and lawyers and scientists and politicians can have professional codes of ethics, why can't we? :lol:
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Re: Harry Potter Fanfic Complaints and Criticism Thread.

Post by Crazedwraith »

To be honest, I've used wards myself. Probably stole it from Dresden Files. It's a term that describes something that could well exist in canon but was never described. If you're writing fanfic you must be doing something that's not canon. How close you adhere to canon and what you perceive as unacceptable breeches of it are personal to the writer and reader.

That said, my biggest peeves would be Malfoy-apologism and Weasley-bashing.

As well as an over adherence to canon. If you're writing about Pansy you don't have to reference to bit in DH where she turns Harry in. If you writing Parvati, the Yule Ball doesn't have to be a thing between her and Harry. When you've got that minor character, you've got a big empty canvas to shape to your wants and needs, use it.
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Re: Harry Potter Fanfic Complaints and Criticism Thread.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Crazedwraith wrote: 2017-07-18 05:19pm To be honest, I've used wards myself. Probably stole it from Dresden Files.
I... get the impression that a lot of Potter fan fic writers these days are cribbing from The Dresden Files. Which I suppose is a sort of compliment to Jim Butcher.
It's a term that describes something that could well exist in canon but was never described.
You know, I could probably accept a Muggle-born, Muggle, or other person who'd spent a lot of time in contact with the Muggle world using it, at least if they were familiar with fantasy literature. :) I just don't see it as terminology that the Wizarding community uses, much like how Inferi are called Inferi and not zombies.

At least I could probably accept it if the annoying overuse of the term hadn't given me a borderline-pathological gut aversion to its presence. :banghead:
If you're writing fanfic you must be doing something that's not canon. How close you adhere to canon and what you perceive as unacceptable breeches of it are personal to the writer and reader.
To an extent, yes, but it depends on what sort of story you're writing. There is also a difference between adding something that is not canon, but does not contradict and is compatible with canon, and contradicting canon (either in spirit in or fact).

Generally, my rule of thumb is something along the lines of "Do not directly contradict the letter of canon, and try not to contradict the spirit of canon, unless explicitly writing an alternative universe fic." In which case, I tend to prefer a single point of divergence, with only those changes that follow from the point of divergence being made. And alternate universe-type stories should be clearly labeled as such.

Simply disregarding canon because "its fan fic, I can do whatever I want", as I've seen some authors do, irks me. Especially if its not clearly labeled as alternate universe, because then its misleading, and not only misrepresents the canon, but amounts to the readers being sold a false bill of goods.

This goes for any mislabeling of stories, by the way.
That said, my biggest peeves would be Malfoy-apologism and Weasley-bashing.
I oppose character bashing and white-washing on general principle, but I find Dumbledore-bashing perhaps the worst, personally. Both because its nigh-ubiquitous, and because it takes one of the most interesting, complex, and nuanced characters in the franchise and reduces them to a one-note caricature.
As well as an over adherence to canon. If you're writing about Pansy you don't have to reference to bit in DH where she turns Harry in. If you writing Parvati, the Yule Ball doesn't have to be a thing between her and Harry. When you've got that minor character, you've got a big empty canvas to shape to your wants and needs, use it.
See above reg. canon adherence.

Although I will add that few things irk me like a story that makes one or more major changes to canon, and then has everything else follow the books closely, right down very specific chunks of dialogue or minor but highly-specific events that were basically highly-improbable flukes, dependent on a very specific set of circumstances. Its lazy, its contrived, and it kills suspension of disbelief.

Jesus, its like people have never heard of the Butterfly Effect. :lol:

When doing any kind of alternate universe story (including crossovers), I think, you have to take the backstory, and the rules of the setting, respect them, but be willing to play very freely with the timeline from the point of divergence onwards.

Actually, I would say that the two cardinal rules for writing in general are probably as follows:

Continuity.

Contrast.

The first basically means: Be consistent with the world of your story. Don't contradict yourself, don't contradict the setting, and think through what you're writing and make sure it makes sense. Otherwise it won't seem credible to discerning readers, and then why should they give a damn about it?

The second pretty much means: Don't be repetitive, don't be boring. Contrasts- of tone, of situations, of personalities and of ideas, are the soul of both drama and comedy.
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Re: Harry Potter Fanfic Complaints and Criticism Thread.

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

The wards thing is not something I find an issue with to be honest, especially as commonly defined they are protective spells cast over an area that do not require further effort from the caster. And we see things exactly like that in canon (the various muggle-repelling and anti-apparation charms around Hogwarts, for instance) so using a general term to refer to something isn't an issue.

I will second the character apologism stuff, especially around Malfoy and Snape. Yes, I know Snape turned out to be on the right side in the end but that does not mean you can present him as anything but what he is without going AU. If it is an expressly AU story that's not an issue of course.

With regards to Dumbledore, I find it goes one of two ways: either he is presented as a noble hero who makes occasional mistakes or he is an utterly ruthless and uncaring manipulator, if not outright evil/antagonistic, with virtually no middle ground.

In a similar vein, I tend to find it annoying when stories present James and Lily as flawless characters who could do no wrong. Granted, usually when referenced it's by people who knew them and remember them fondly, but it's still there. "Saint Lily" is a term I have heard used to describe this trend.
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Re: Harry Potter Fanfic Complaints and Criticism Thread.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Lily probably gets that more than James. If anything, I think I've seen more of the other approach with James: playing up what a douchebag he was because of his adolescent behavior at Hogwarts.

Their may or may not be a strong correlation between this and Snape/Lily shipping. ;)
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Re: Harry Potter Fanfic Complaints and Criticism Thread.

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

That's true.

Of course, some element of this is to be expected. Fanfics are written by people with individual interpretations of characters, so they're going to focus on one aspect over others.

Shipping in general annoys me, to an extent anyway. Writing a different but plausible relationship than what was in canon is, imo, acceptable for an AU story (arguing Harry/Hermione, for instance, it is at least within the realms of possibility) whereas some are just completely WTF (Harry/Luna, Harry/Susan, a character who gets about five lines total in the books, Harry/any other background Hogwarts student, Harry/someone much older, etc). In fairness, I have read stories where those other relationships have been used and done well, but that is largely because the author has taken an otherwise blank-slate-with-name-attached character and developed them into someone interesting.

I suppose in general, the less plausible a relationship is compared to canon, the better you have to be as a writer to make it work. And I'm pretty sure that graph is asymptotic, so skill needed increases dramatically as plausibility goes down.
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Re: Harry Potter Fanfic Complaints and Criticism Thread.

Post by Crazedwraith »

Okay, in danger of starting shipping wars here but I'm just going to say Harry/Luna and Harry/Susan are completely different levels of plausibility there. Luna has moments of closeness and likeness with Harry in OotP that could have lead to a relationship in canon. Susan at best is just a name a jumble of huffpuffish trait to use in a fic.

But fic, especially smutfic will use any pairing because you can do fun things when you don't care about canon. And tbh I don't see much wrong with that. This is what I mean by saying how close you stick to canon is personal to the writer and reader. I feel a writer can ignore canon as much as they like if they're having fun. The reader of course doesn't have to like or go along with it.
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Re: Harry Potter Fanfic Complaints and Criticism Thread.

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

Those are all fair points. But while smutfic has it's pace, any form of "serious" (for lack of a better term) fanfic that attempts a less-plausible pairing without being massively AU will require a better standard of writing to be convincing.

By "massively AU" there, I mean stories that start when Harry first arrives at Hogwarts, or earlier, where different pairings become more plausible depending on who his friends are initially and so on. Any story starting from a later point is still AU but less dramatically so.
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Re: Harry Potter Fanfic Complaints and Criticism Thread.

Post by Lord Revan »

Related to this and something that would kill my intrest in a second would massive and unexplained change in a character's sexuality and the way they express it in a story that's not repesented as an AU work or "just for fun" what ifs like what a smutfic would be. Essentially if the characters are suppose to be "as in canon" but aren't

Say for example in canon character A is shown to be more or less straight but in the fanfic (s)he's not only gay but very openly so and it's implied (s)he's always been that way because the author doesn't want to write straight romance, or character B is depicted as gay or bi in canon, but in the fic they're suddenly straight and may even be outright homophobic again because the author is that way. For a Harry Potter example if the author made Dumbledore clearly and openly straight for what ever reason while at same time implying this is suppose to be 100% canon accurate depiction, even though in canon Dumbledore is gay though such private person that his sexuality is practically "irrelevant" as far as the story is conserned.
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Re: Harry Potter Fanfic Complaints and Criticism Thread.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Eternal_Freedom wrote: 2017-07-19 04:21pm That's true.

Of course, some element of this is to be expected. Fanfics are written by people with individual interpretations of characters, so they're going to focus on one aspect over others.
True, but there are limits to what can be done reasonably.
Shipping in general annoys me, to an extent anyway.
Ditto.

I mean, I get the appeal of romance, and porn for that matter, but the fandom-wide obsession with shipping is deeply annoying at best and profoundly creepy at worst (all the more so when the romances were never the focus of the original books or films, but especially the books), and tends to exist to the detriment of good writing. In part for the simple reason that writers twist the story and characters to serve the needs of the ship.

As such, my policy tends to be to follow canon relationships unless I have a very good reason not to. Although when a character has multiple canon relationships, there is some room sometimes for flexibility when it comes to which to focus on. For example, one could easily envision a scenario where, had events played out differently due to Butterfly Effect, Harry ends up with Cho (say, Harry asks her before Cedric, so there's never the baggage of Cedric's death between them, and he addresses her jealousy of Hermione in a more tactful way). I probably wouldn't go out of my way to set that up, but it could work under the right circumstances.

However, much like how Sherlock Holmes says that its a mistake to theorize without data, because you will twist data to fit theories rather than theories to fit data, shipping should generally develop from the premise, not the other way around. Otherwise, writers tend to end up twisting the story, characters, themes, and setting to fit the ship, and the ship becomes the sole dominating force of the story, to the expense of everything else.
Writing a different but plausible relationship than what was in canon is, imo, acceptable for an AU story (arguing Harry/Hermione, for instance, it is at least within the realms of possibility)
Ever since Rowling said that thing about how Hermione shouldn't have ended up with Ron, I've leaned towards the interpretation that Hermione had an unrequited interest in Harry (could be just a crush, could be full-blown love), but that, when she saw that Harry wasn't interested in her, she settled on Ron.

It seems the best way, perhaps, to reconcile Rowlings' various assertions on the matter (book canon is pretty clear on the fact that Harry never saw Hermione that way). Though I wouldn't use this argument as the basis of a story.
whereas some are just completely WTF (Harry/Luna, Harry/Susan, a character who gets about five lines total in the books, Harry/any other background Hogwarts student, Harry/someone much older, etc). In fairness, I have read stories where those other relationships have been used and done well, but that is largely because the author has taken an otherwise blank-slate-with-name-attached character and developed them into someone interesting.
Harry/Luna actually has more basis for it, flimsy though it is, than almost any other non-canon couple. At least they were friends, had a level of mutual understanding, and had one sort-of (as friends) date. I wouldn't push it myself, but there's nothing wrong with it in and of itself, beyond the fact that its non-canon.

Otherwise, agreed.
I suppose in general, the less plausible a relationship is compared to canon, the better you have to be as a writer to make it work. And I'm pretty sure that graph is asymptotic, so skill needed increases dramatically as plausibility goes down.
To a point. There are some I simply would never accept.
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Re: Harry Potter Fanfic Complaints and Criticism Thread.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Crazedwraith wrote: 2017-07-19 04:27pm Okay, in danger of starting shipping wars here but I'm just going to say Harry/Luna and Harry/Susan are completely different levels of plausibility there. Luna has moments of closeness and likeness with Harry in OotP that could have lead to a relationship in canon. Susan at best is just a name a jumble of huffpuffish trait to use in a fic.

But fic, especially smutfic will use any pairing because you can do fun things when you don't care about canon. And tbh I don't see much wrong with that. This is what I mean by saying how close you stick to canon is personal to the writer and reader. I feel a writer can ignore canon as much as they like if they're having fun. The reader of course doesn't have to like or go along with it.
Eternal_Freedom wrote: 2017-07-19 04:35pm Those are all fair points. But while smutfic has it's pace, any form of "serious" (for lack of a better term) fanfic that attempts a less-plausible pairing without being massively AU will require a better standard of writing to be convincing.

By "massively AU" there, I mean stories that start when Harry first arrives at Hogwarts, or earlier, where different pairings become more plausible depending on who his friends are initially and so on. Any story starting from a later point is still AU but less dramatically so.
I'm not going to get into arguing weather "smutfic" is inherently problematic (I don't write it personally though, as my interests as a writer lie elsewhere), but I hope we can agree that their are a lot of places where it would be deeply wrong in this particular fandom, for the simple fact that most of the characters are underage for most of the story.
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Re: Harry Potter Fanfic Complaints and Criticism Thread.

Post by Formless »

I don't think its as simple as "these characters are underage, therefore its wrong." I avoid such stories, but that's another matter. I mean, many fanfic writers are no older than the characters in the story, depending on which book you set the fanfiction in. And most of the 'ships are between characters of equal age, at an age where that's actually a thing teens start doing. Like, I know it would/does feel creepy to an older reader, but it isn't necessarily "wrong" from where the author is sitting. Its not like this is Lolita, where an older man has an affair with a young girl. Its mostly stories where two teenagers have relationships with one another... like teenagers do. In the original books, even, although Rowling never takes it anywhere graphic. Did you feel uncomfortable every time they characters start making out with one another in books 5 and 6?

Just saying. You might want to stop and think about this deeper than "eww, gross."
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Re: Harry Potter Fanfic Complaints and Criticism Thread.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

I have considered it quite thoroughly, as I always try to do when making any sort of argument, and while its true that their might not be anything particularly immoral about a teenager writing about the relationships of fictional teenagers, well, don't expect me to want to read it.

And there is a difference between depicting two underage characters in a relationship, or kissing one another (which you see in fiction all the time, and would occur as a matter of realism), and more explicit content, or content for the purpose of titillation (ie "smutfic" which is what we were discussing).

So I can't help but feel that you are misrepresenting my argument and its context in order to dismiss it as just knee-jerk prudishness.
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Re: Harry Potter Fanfic Complaints and Criticism Thread.

Post by Formless »

No, I feel like the term "smutfic" is itself misrepresentative of the vast majority of shipping I've seen outside of doujinshi from Japan, and that you are mistaken in thinking that "smut" is all that is being discussed here by other posters. it is only a part of the discussion. Nor am I trying to make you seem prudish, as I wholly understand wanting to avoid pornographic fanfiction especially when the characters are younger than yourself. I merely want to make it clear where many of the writers of this stuff are coming from, because that changes the dynamics of the discussion. The younger writers may not realize how pornographic depictions of teenage characters come off to older readers, or could be co-opted by them.
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Re: Harry Potter Fanfic Complaints and Criticism Thread.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Just thought of another common fan fic trope under the heading of moral and intellectual bankruptcy which irks the hell out of me. That being House Elf slavery apologism.

I've noticed that Harry Potter fanfic, when it even addresses the topic of House Elves at all rather than skating over the issue, tends to go out of its way to justify the enslavement of House Elves, usually with "They're happier as slaves"/"Its their nature to be slaves", or more rarely, with "They're actually evil/dangerous and need to be enslaved for the greater good."

Some of this, no doubt, is in reaction to Hermione's well-meaning but clumsy attempts to free the elves in the books, but some of it comes across as pure apologism/wish-fulfillment for people who want guilt-free slavery.

Its not even supported by canon. Quite the contrary. We do see that a certain level of obedience (or at least punishing oneself for disobedience) seems to be compulsory for House Elves, but it comes across in the books more as something forced on them by magic (probably by their Wizard masters at some point in the past). And regardless, they clearly show sapience and individualism, and thus cannot be simply collectively labeled as "Its their nature to be slaves".

Moreover, of the three house elves who get a significant amount of detail in canon, one actively opposed his masters and wished to be free, one was content to be a slave in theory (in a manner suggestive of severe Stockholm Syndrome) but loathed and undermined his current master, and one appeared to actually be devoted to their master and unhappy to be freed. So... one in three? That's not terribly convincing for the "House Elves actually like being enslaved" argument.

The only thing that side has going for it, really, is Dobby's passing remark in Order of the Phoenix about the Hogwarts elves objecting to Hermione's efforts to free them. But let's look at the context of that.

First of all, its one off-hand remark from one individual who, frankly, isn't known for being the most reliable or level-headed person. But even if we take Dobby's remark at face value, consider the context.

A Hogwarts elf is probably one of the best-off elves in Britain, at least under Dumbledore. They have a master who will probably treat them with more dignity and kindness than the vast majority of wizards and witches, are probably seldom if ever physically abused (especially since they don't interact much with the students directly), and, at least during the summers and holidays, probably have a relatively light workload. And if they were free... well, how much work is their for a freed elf in Wizarding Britain, especially when even enslaved elves are supposed to be an expensive luxury, and even more so when "freed elf" will probably be mentally translated by a lot of wizards and witches as "incompetent elf".

Now, Dumbledore would probably quite willingly free them and pay them if they wanted it, as his treatment of Dobby shows.* But Dumbledore won't always be Headmaster. He's an old man. What happens when he passes on and the new Headmaster or Headmistress might not be willing to pay a castle full of free elves? For that matter, Dumbledore might not even have the authority to free and pay all those elves. What if such an expenditure required the approval of the board of governors (or they simply didn't have the budget for it)? He could pay Dobby out of his own pocket if he had to, and probably would. Could he do the same for a hundred elves?

None of that makes the enslavement of the Hogwarts elves okay, of course. But it may be that the general feeling among Hogwarts elves if that they have the best of a lot of shitty options, and don't want to risk losing the little that they have.

Its also quite likely that Hermione wouldn't have the authority, as a student, to set a Hogwarts elf free (unless there's something in canon to contradict that). Hell, I can imagine some of the elves being offended by the silly child who thinks that her half-assed efforts are actually going to accomplish anything (like how some people derisively use the term "slacktivist").

So can we please be rid of the slavery apologism in fan fic? Honestly, some of the arguments I've seen, if you replaced "house elf" with the N-word, would fit pretty well in the mouths of 19th. Century Southern plantation owners. Better off as slaves my fucking ass.

*Though it also occurs to me that the potential security advantages of having an elf who was close to and highly loyal to Harry, familiar with one of Voldemort's chief Lts., and hostile to him, living in close proximity to Harry, was probably not lost on Dumbledore.
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Re: Harry Potter Fanfic Complaints and Criticism Thread.

Post by ray245 »

It's quite funny because Hermione can be seen as pre-dating the modern so called "SJW" movement. She is right to raise concern about the issue, but she did it in such a hamfist way with very little thought about the long-term solution that no one else take her seriously.

The main problem for many teen writers is they can't understand nuances. Some might be able to tell the difference between good and bad grammar, but they often could not grasp the little nunance in JK's writings that makes HP so engaging to the readers.
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Re: Harry Potter Fanfic Complaints and Criticism Thread.

Post by JLTucker »

The Cursed Child is some of the worst fan fiction I've ever read. It even fucks up continuity, quite egregiously.
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Re: Harry Potter Fanfic Complaints and Criticism Thread.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Cursed Child has problems, yes, though if its some of the worst fanfiction you've ever seen, then you've been very, very lucky. ;)

Time travel is, of course, always tricky to implement well without fucking continuity- personally I'd have preferred what the time travel sequence in Azkaban seemed to imply, that being a closed loop, rather than being able to rewrite reality at will. But then I'm a Doctor Who fan, so I don't know if I have much of a leg to stand on complaining about this.

It also employs some lame fan fic clichés, and panders a bit (or so I felt) to the shippers.

The worst, though, was probably the character assassination of Cedric.

The best part, from what I recall of it, was the evil alternate universe (particularly Snape), and the final climax at Godric's Hollow. That said, all things considered, I'd probably prefer if it wasn't canon.

Although to be fair, I've noticed a very telling pattern with Cursed Child. That being that people who've read the script tend to bash it, and people who've actually watched the play on stage tend to love it. Which suggests one or both of two things:

1. The story is shit, but the production and performances are good enough to allow the audiences to overlook that.

2. The story has elements that don't work well in text, but do work well in a live performance. Remember that plays are meant to be performed and watched live, and what works on stage doesn't always read very well as a work of literature.
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Re: Harry Potter Fanfic Complaints and Criticism Thread.

Post by Lord Revan »

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2017-07-20 06:15pm Cursed Child has problems, yes, though if its some of the worst fanfiction you've ever seen, then you've been very, very lucky. ;)

Time travel is, of course, always tricky to implement well without fucking continuity- personally I'd have preferred what the time travel sequence in Azkaban seemed to imply, that being a closed loop, rather than being able to rewrite reality at will. But then I'm a Doctor Who fan, so I don't know if I have much of a leg to stand on complaining about this.

It also employs some lame fan fic clichés, and panders a bit (or so I felt) to the shippers.

The worst, though, was probably the character assassination of Cedric.

The best part, from what I recall of it, was the evil alternate universe (particularly Snape), and the final climax at Godric's Hollow. That said, all things considered, I'd probably prefer if it wasn't canon.

Although to be fair, I've noticed a very telling pattern with Cursed Child. That being that people who've read the script tend to bash it, and people who've actually watched the play on stage tend to love it. Which suggests one or both of two things:

1. The story is shit, but the production and performances are good enough to allow the audiences to overlook that.

2. The story has elements that don't work well in text, but do work well in a live performance. Remember that plays are meant to be performed and watched live, and what works on stage doesn't always read very well as a work of literature.
there also could be the "you can write this shit but you can't act it" issue as a good actor will probably (even on the stage) adapt the script rather then just reading it outloud, so they might take the essence of a cliche or bad worded line and say it in a way that sounds more natural.
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Re: Harry Potter Fanfic Complaints and Criticism Thread.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Yeah. That too.

So, another day, another complaint...

I really, really don't like the tendency of a lot of writers to play up the Dursleys' abuse of Harry, or to play up how "damaged" Harry was by it.

Now, don't mistake me, the Dursleys are horrible people (well, Dudley not quite as much, if only because he was a minor who's faults were largely due to the bad parenting he was subjected to). But this sort of portrayal, in addition to disregarding canon, comes off as at best ham-fisted angst/melodrama/melodrama; and/or a misguided, clumsy attempt to show a more serious, "realistic" depiction of abuse (which to my mind does abuse victims a disservice by acting like we won't get that its abuse if it doesn't involve regular beatings at minimum, ignoring the seriousness of non-violent neglect, and also tries to pigeon-hole abuse victims into all reacting in the same way); often serves as a set-up for character bashing; and at worst comes off as sick sadomasochism on the part of the author.

This isn't a problem unique to Potterverse fics, either. I've seen Xander get the same fucking treatment in Buffyverse fics.

Of course, this could to some extent be treated as just a subset of the larger issue of fanfic writers taking certain character traits or ideas and playing them up to a ridiculous extent, until we're left with caricatures, not actual credible characters and settings and plots.

Its also probably partly Rowling's fault, due to her seeming obsession with the theme of child abuse as backstory (a recurring theme in her work). It honestly makes me wonder at times if Rowling has some kind of personal experience with the issue, though I have no recollection of their being any evidence of that.
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Re: Harry Potter Fanfic Complaints and Criticism Thread.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

ray245 wrote: 2017-07-19 09:33pm It's quite funny because Hermione can be seen as pre-dating the modern so called "SJW" movement. She is right to raise concern about the issue, but she did it in such a hamfist way with very little thought about the long-term solution that no one else take her seriously.
Personally, I think the hostility towards "SJWs", and even the use of "SJW" as a perjorative, is almost entirely manufactured by the Alt. Right/MRA/white nationalist crowd, as a way to stigmatize their political opponents. But I digress.

Although, and I'm probably a horrible person for suggesting thing, this kind of calls for a Harry Potter political parody. Hermione is the "SJW", Harry is put in the role of the unintentionally discriminatory progressive white male trying to play "white knight" (maybe he's a "Bernie Bro" :lol: ), Malfoy is an angry, privileged young white male Alt. Rightist (so... basically his canon personality), Dumbledore is basically wizard Corbyn/Bernie Sanders, Fudge is Trump, Voldemort is Putin (mostly because I love calling Putin Lord Vladimort :lol: )...

You could write it hyper-silly (it would probably be hard-bordering-on-impossible to do it without being unintentionally offensive, though), or as a more serious satire, but either is probably beyond my writing ability (or that of the vast majority of fanfic writers, come to that) to do well. Comedy isn't really my forte.
The main problem for many teen writers is they can't understand nuances. Some might be able to tell the difference between good and bad grammar, but they often could not grasp the little nunance in JK's writings that makes HP so engaging to the readers.
That's certainly a problem, and I daresay it exacerbates a lot of other problems.
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Re: Harry Potter Fanfic Complaints and Criticism Thread.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Going to go back to this post:
Eternal_Freedom wrote: 2017-07-19 03:54pm The wards thing is not something I find an issue with to be honest, especially as commonly defined they are protective spells cast over an area that do not require further effort from the caster. And we see things exactly like that in canon (the various muggle-repelling and anti-apparation charms around Hogwarts, for instance) so using a general term to refer to something isn't an issue.
Its just that its a term that never appears in canon, is endemic in fan fiction, and thus has come to represent, for me, the fandom's tendency towards groupthink and inserting stuff from other sources into the Potterverse when it doesn't fit, for various reasons.

I mean, again, look at Inferi. They're basically zombies, but it would be strange if every fanfic suddenly started just referring to them as zombies, right? Because the Wizarding World has its own culture and terminology and little differences in how it works.
I will second the character apologism stuff, especially around Malfoy and Snape. Yes, I know Snape turned out to be on the right side in the end but that does not mean you can present him as anything but what he is without going AU. If it is an expressly AU story that's not an issue of course.

With regards to Dumbledore, I find it goes one of two ways: either he is presented as a noble hero who makes occasional mistakes or he is an utterly ruthless and uncaring manipulator, if not outright evil/antagonistic, with virtually no middle ground.
I'd actually say that, other than Harry (who is the main POV character and gets the most development), Dumbledore and Snape are probably hands down the two most nuanced, complex, and interesting characters in canon. Snape leans more towards bad, Dumbledore more towards good, I think, but to simplify either of them is to simply ruin a good character.

As to Dumbledore specifically, as I've said before, I think his main mistake (after Ariana's death, anyway), is that he tried to do two jobs at once that didn't really go together. If you can call it a mistake, because to some extent he was forced into it by circumstances.

On the one hand, he was trying to be the kindly, eccentric old schoolmaster. Which is what I think he wanted to be most.

On the other hand, he was forced into the role of spymaster and politician, on account of the rise of Voldemort and Grindlewald's terror and the fact that he was the most brilliant and powerful non-evil wizard of his time. Though he never did as much as he might have, because of his fear that he would misuse power.

The thing is, those two professions don't really mesh, especially when you try to run them both out of the same institution. So, while I think he might have done admirably at either one, when he tried to do both at once, he ended up compromising both the welfare of his students and the functioning of the school in order to fight Voldemort, and the campaign against Voldemort for the sake of his students.
In a similar vein, I tend to find it annoying when stories present James and Lily as flawless characters who could do no wrong. Granted, usually when referenced it's by people who knew them and remember them fondly, but it's still there. "Saint Lily" is a term I have heard used to describe this trend.
Already replied to this.
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