Should Hawkgirl be kicked out of the Justice League?

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Should Hawkgirl be kicked out?

Yes, she betrayed the Justice League and Earth
1
7%
No, she helped save Earth from her own people and saved billions of lives.
13
93%
 
Total votes: 14

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Should Hawkgirl be kicked out of the Justice League?

Postby FaxModem1 » 2017-05-12 05:03am

In the three part series finale of Justice League, Hawkgirl is revealed to be a deep cover agent for her home planet of Thanagaria, scouting Earth for years, buying their trust, until the Thanagarians get there to build a hyperspace bypass that would destroy the Earth(which she thought was a shield to protect Earth from alien invasion). Torn between loyalty to her home world, and the destruction of Earth, she chooses Earth. This makes her an exile from her homeworld and her own people.

The Justice League vote over whether or not to keep her in the League.

But instead of their votes, let's say that you have a voice in the decision. Do you let her stay in? Do you kick her out?

What's your decision?
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Re: Should Hawkgirl be kicked out of the Justice League?

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2017-05-12 05:07am

She spied on us because she was deceived into believing it was for our own good? Then turned on her own people to help us?

And superheroes tend to make a career out of breaking the law and keeping secrets in order to protect people.

Haven't seen the episode, but based on this information, let her stay.
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Re: Should Hawkgirl be kicked out of the Justice League?

Postby Zixinus » 2017-05-12 11:13am

We do need a bit more information.

What was precisely her initial mission and with what beliefs did she accept it? Was destroying Earth ever a possibility she would have accepted? Was she aware of the change of priorities? Does her initial oath of service include destroying Earth?

From a practical standpoint however, firing her would be redundant and foolish if it is really true that she was fired. At the very least she could be kept eye on.
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Re: Should Hawkgirl be kicked out of the Justice League?

Postby Lord Revan » 2017-05-12 12:58pm

while a lot of those details were never told from a relible source, only ones saying anything about were other thanagarians but the circumstances make their statements suspect at best, we do know why the league did cast her out (assuming we're talking about the DCAU version) and it was a matter of trust in 2 ways actually, first the League couldn't be sure they could trust her, after all she had lied to them about pretty much everything about herself during her time in the League and the second part of that the goverments/civilians had to trust the league and having a prominent figure essentially responsible of a reason alien invasion in a signigant role in the league might not sit well with the people. As for keeping tabs on her, this a universe where Batman exists, I'm pretty sure she couldn't even touch herself without Bruce knowing all the details, let alone try any sort of villany.

the fact she wasn't carted to Arkham in chains should tell you how much the League still after all she had done trusted her.
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Re: Should Hawkgirl be kicked out of the Justice League?

Postby Q99 » 2017-05-12 01:01pm

Heroes are big into judging people on how they act when it really matters, and there she showed herself a hero.

I think I'd keep her, despite the mistrust. It lets her put where she stands out in the open.

Lord Revan wrote:As for keeping tabs on her, this a universe where Batman exists, I'm pretty sure she couldn't even touch herself without Bruce knowing all the details, let alone try any sort of villany.


Though JLU Superman isn't really near his 'god-bat' portrayals. It's quite possible to hide stuff from him.

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Re: Should Hawkgirl be kicked out of the Justice League?

Postby Lord Revan » 2017-05-12 01:08pm

Q99 wrote:Heroes are big into judging people on how they act when it really matters, and there she showed herself a hero.

I think I'd keep her, despite the mistrust. It lets her put where she stands out in the open.

Lord Revan wrote:As for keeping tabs on her, this a universe where Batman exists, I'm pretty sure she couldn't even touch herself without Bruce knowing all the details, let alone try any sort of villany.


Though JLU Superman isn't really near his 'god-bat' portrayals. It's quite possible to hide stuff from him.

true but there aren't that many redheaded chicks with organic hawk wings on their back on Earth and we also have to remember that there would be quite few people willing to aid her. Doctor Fate's tower (where she was next time we see her) was probably one of the few places on Earth she could have any degree of privacy.

I should also be noted that she does later rejoin the league under her real name as a full member and while it takes longer for some members she does regain their trust. It could have been that right after the invasion the wounds of Hawkgirl's betrail were too fresh and the league needed time to heal.
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Re: Should Hawkgirl be kicked out of the Justice League?

Postby Crazedwraith » 2017-05-12 01:43pm

Lord Revan wrote:while a lot of those details were never told from a relible source, only ones saying anything about were other thanagarians but the circumstances make their statements suspect at best, we do know why the league did cast her out (assuming we're talking about the DCAU version)


The League didn't cast her out. She quit before hearing their judgement. When it came down to the vote Superman cast the deciding vote to keep her. Quoteth The Man Of Steel "I believe in redemption, I believe in second chances and most of all I believe in my friends'
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Re: Should Hawkgirl be kicked out of the Justice League?

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2017-05-12 01:46pm

Out.

Yes she came through in the end but aside from the personal betrayal, with the JL and the JLU being a trusted world-protecting org, the PR of a member being a known alien invasion collaborator... is not so good. It'll mess up the org's dynamics with the rest of the world. Heck, the org's dynamic between its own members who already ain't the most stable of people. So, no.

Her going with the "DC Defenders," hanging with Dr. Fate and Amazo and other non-JL "independent" heroes was the wiser choice.
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Re: Should Hawkgirl be kicked out of the Justice League?

Postby Batman » 2017-05-12 05:48pm

Um-AMAZO was never part of the independent heroes? Once de-villained he headed for the skies and didn't return until JLU to say Thank You to Lex. Terminally.
And it should be noted that we're never told if she was actually kicked out, Shayera left of her own volition. We don't know how the votes tallied, leave alone who voted what.
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That being said the PR issues are a real concern, especially given there were already trust issues thanks to Clark's aiding and abetting Darkseid's invasion of Earth (however involuntarily), as would later manifest in JLU's Cadmus arc.
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Re: Should Hawkgirl be kicked out of the Justice League?

Postby Crazedwraith » 2017-05-12 06:02pm

No. You do find out when Shayera returns. I even quoted what Supes said about it.

and Shroom is right. Amazo stays with Dr Fate after he comes back to Earth. He's involved when Soloman Grundy resurrect and then teleports away when he accidentally powers Grundy up with his presence.
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Re: Should Hawkgirl be kicked out of the Justice League?

Postby Simon_Jester » 2017-05-12 06:15pm

V
Shroom Man 777 wrote:Out.

Yes she came through in the end but aside from the personal betrayal, with the JL and the JLU being a trusted world-protecting org, the PR of a member being a known alien invasion collaborator... is not so good. It'll mess up the org's dynamics with the rest of the world.
So how does this fit in with, for example, including Green Lanterns in the JLA? Green Lanterns are (as a rule) members of an interstellar police force that doesn't answer to any earthly authority. Sure, they're tasked with defending the Earth, but Hawkgirl did defend Earth- she just sent back reports on what was happening, for her homeworld to read. Or that's how I understand it. Am I wrong?
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Re: Should Hawkgirl be kicked out of the Justice League?

Postby Solauren » 2017-05-12 06:26pm

IF all Hawkgirl did was basic observation/recon, there are bloggers and radio shows that transmit out more data then she probably did.

Earth itself welcome her people when they were told they wanted to install a Planetary Shield.

When she found out her people were lying, she turned on them to protect Earth, and put her own world in serious danger.

My judgement: Let her stay, but make it clear she's on probation. She wasn't honest with her background to the League, but then again, they were not forthcoming with each other later.

I'll point out, that during the invasion, when the League was trying to hide, they got into a store to switch into civie clothes. Flash was uncomfortable revealing his true identity to the others.
That of course, lasted right up until Batman started pointing to everyone, saying their real names, ending with pointing to Flash and saying "Wally West", and then pulling back his own hood and saying "Bruce Wayne"

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Re: Should Hawkgirl be kicked out of the Justice League?

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2017-05-12 06:36pm

Simon_Jester wrote:V
Shroom Man 777 wrote:Out.

Yes she came through in the end but aside from the personal betrayal, with the JL and the JLU being a trusted world-protecting org, the PR of a member being a known alien invasion collaborator... is not so good. It'll mess up the org's dynamics with the rest of the world.
So how does this fit in with, for example, including Green Lanterns in the JLA? Green Lanterns are (as a rule) members of an interstellar police force that doesn't answer to any earthly authority. Sure, they're tasked with defending the Earth, but Hawkgirl did defend Earth- she just sent back reports on what was happening, for her homeworld to read. Or that's how I understand it. Am I wrong?


V?

Hurm, well I wonder what arrangements the Lanterns had with the Earth governments - and depending on this arrangement or the lack of it, one might say that the GLs are no different than the JL in being a bunch of unsanctioned crimefighters, glorified vigilantes. But anyway... the Lanterns didn't invade the Earth. The Thanagarians did. AND for a moment we see Shayera don the Thanagarian colors and assist the occupation force before turning coat once again. It could be said that she was thus working undercover to help Earth and whatever (she did do this). Hurm... I don't know if she knew the Thanagarians would invade Earth. She did DIDN'T know that they were gonna Vogons the Earth with the hyperspace bypass.

I'm not saying that Shayera wasn't a good person etcetera. But like organizationally... I mean, think about it, if someone in some company slips up and says something wrong or gets into a questionable incident, even if it's not apocalyptic, they still get transferred or suspended or whatever. Government officials resign. Etcetera. This is a major scandal. Hell, I substantiate removing Shayera by citing her own sober decision. That was the correct choice.

Even if they were all fine with it, aside from public PR issues... a guilt-ridden collaborator trying to atone for her sins or whatever wouldn't be a properly functioning member, IMO.

So... she's as right to leave the League as Green Arrow was to initially refuse joining the JLU.
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Re: Should Hawkgirl be kicked out of the Justice League?

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2017-05-12 07:25pm

Solauren wrote:IF all Hawkgirl did was basic observation/recon, there are bloggers and radio shows that transmit out more data then she probably did.

Earth itself welcome her people when they were told they wanted to install a Planetary Shield.

When she found out her people were lying, she turned on them to protect Earth, and put her own world in serious danger.

My judgement: Let her stay, but make it clear she's on probation. She wasn't honest with her background to the League, but then again, they were not forthcoming with each other later.

I'll point out, that during the invasion, when the League was trying to hide, they got into a store to switch into civie clothes. Flash was uncomfortable revealing his true identity to the others.
That of course, lasted right up until Batman started pointing to everyone, saying their real names, ending with pointing to Flash and saying "Wally West", and then pulling back his own hood and saying "Bruce Wayne"


Because Batman is the best. :D

Though I do think that she probably gave away much more than the average blogger or radio show could. She wasn't just observing people on the street- she was observing the Justice League, and some of their secrets are potentially world-endingly dangerous.

That said, my answer remains largely unchanged. She should stay. Or the whole Justice League should go.

I mean... she concealed her identity while committing illegal acts to protect innocent people? So... just like almost every other super hero, then.
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Re: Should Hawkgirl be kicked out of the Justice League?

Postby Batman » 2017-05-12 11:29pm

Crazedwraith wrote:No. You do find out when Shayera returns. I even quoted what Supes said about it.
and Shroom is right. Amazo stays with Dr Fate after he comes back to Earth. He's involved when Soloman Grundy resurrect and then teleports away when he accidentally powers Grundy up with his presence.

Huh. Sorry, somehow missed your post. My bad
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Re: Should Hawkgirl be kicked out of the Justice League?

Postby Lord Revan » 2017-05-13 02:42am

here's an intresting question how many people on DCAU Earth know that Green Lanterns are a full on alien organization and not a group heroes with the same theme, hell if there has typically not been more then 1 GL on Earth the general population (including goverments) might not even be aware that Green Lanterns are a group rather then a single legacy hero.
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Re: Should Hawkgirl be kicked out of the Justice League?

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2017-05-15 01:31pm

Lord Revan wrote:here's an intresting question how many people on DCAU Earth know that Green Lanterns are a full on alien organization and not a group heroes with the same theme, hell if there has typically not been more then 1 GL on Earth the general population (including goverments) might not even be aware that Green Lanterns are a group rather then a single legacy hero.


When it becomes known that all this time the GLs are this galactic super-meta-paramilitary force... people might lose their shit.
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