Netflix- Marvel's Iron Fist *potential spoilers*

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Re: Netflix- Marvel's Iron Fist *potential spoilers*

Postby Broomstick » 2017-03-20 07:56pm

Fight scenes in Daredevil, Jessica Jones, and Luke Cage all looked better to me. I'm only two episodes in, but so far I'm not sold on the martial arts scenes.
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Re: Netflix- Marvel's Iron Fist *potential spoilers*

Postby Enigma » 2017-03-20 08:23pm

I may be in the minority but I seem to enjoy Iron Fist. True, it looks drawn out but it has been enjoyable. Mind you I haven't seen any of the other series yet but I will once I'm done with this one.
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Re: Netflix- Marvel's Iron Fist *potential spoilers*

Postby Gaidin » 2017-03-20 08:29pm

Enigma wrote:I may be in the minority but I seem to enjoy Iron Fist. True, it looks drawn out but it has been enjoyable. Mind you I haven't seen any of the other series yet but I will once I'm done with this one.

You may be in the minority but I am with you. And that's after watching all of them. I have even no hobbyist way to judge the fighting so I just sit back and enjoy and shrug while taking the word of reviews. All I know is its decently close with no Bourne Suprmacy shaky-cam.

My one complaint is he's got a few too many foils during the season, whatever they turn into in the end.

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Re: Netflix- Marvel's Iron Fist *potential spoilers*

Postby Gandalf » 2017-03-20 09:22pm

Broomstick wrote:Fight scenes in Daredevil, Jessica Jones, and Luke Cage all looked better to me. I'm only two episodes in, but so far I'm not sold on the martial arts scenes.


Hence the value of the masked superhero; it's easier to hire a kung fu guy and put him under the mask.

At least with Luke Cage it's not like he's a great martial artist, so the camera can always be close and it's clearly Mike Colter taking bullets and punching people.
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Re: Netflix- Marvel's Iron Fist *potential spoilers*

Postby General Zod » 2017-03-21 08:41am

Enigma wrote:I may be in the minority but I seem to enjoy Iron Fist. True, it looks drawn out but it has been enjoyable. Mind you I haven't seen any of the other series yet but I will once I'm done with this one.


The difference in quality is pretty huge. You should really check out the others, starting with DD.
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Re: Netflix- Marvel's Iron Fist *potential spoilers*

Postby FaxModem1 » 2017-03-21 05:02pm

I finished the show over the weekend. Not being familiar with the source material, I'm looking at the show itself, and it's rather dry. The premise is guy returns back to civilization after being gone for 15 years, and tries to take back his company. Like a more mystical Green Arrow or Batman.

Here's what is lacking.
A, we don't see the mystical city he's in, or what he experienced, except for about 5 minutes of flashbacks in total(throughout 13 hours of a season). This means we don't really have a basis for comparison of what is normal for Danny Rand. This also means that the audience is getting a lot of tell, and not much, if any, show. It's hard to find a location's fate compelling when we never see it, or any characters from it.

B. Danny Rand, as a character, doesn't make sense. We have someone who spent the majority of their life in a monastery, and missed things like aliens are real, the Earth has been invaded, SHIELD and HYDRA had a war for years, etc. Danny Rand has no reaction to any of these events, even though that should be huge culture shock. He also doesn't have the personality of a zen monk, full of peace. Either make it part of Danny's character that he never fit in at the monastery because of how different he was, and execute it well, or make Danny more affected by almost two decades of monastery life. This also makes Danny's abandoning of his responsibilities to come to New York hard to connect to, because it seems like Danny doesn't really care, so why should we?

For a good example, Danny notes in one episode that he took a vow of chastity, two episodes later, he is having sex with his love interest. I guess some vows just don't matter, huh?

C. Everyone else goes nowhere with their plot. The show can't seem to decide who the main villain is, so it switches it out every few episodes. Luke Cage made the same mistake, but it at least tried to make the second villain more of a driving force for the entire back half of the season. Iron Fist plays musical chairs with who is in the antagonist seat, and it makes you apathetic about it. The other characters also shift focus in their goals constantly. Do the business Wonder twins want to be Danny's friend, or do they want him to go away? Does Colleen want to support her dojo financially by fighting, or is it something that is dropped instantly? This inconsistency makes us apathetic about what's happening to them.

When one character is shot in a later episode, I didn't really care if that person died, because they changed personality so much that I didn't know who they really were.

Aside from that, Claire Temple, Jeri Hogarth, and Madame Gao are all excellent, but then, they've been in previous works, so we can draw more of a connection to them.

If I were writing the show? I would have had the first season be entirely about Danny in the monastery, and him growing up there. Let us see the person he became, from 1990s kid, to martial artist monk, to the Iron Fist. That way, we grow up with him, and see how he became who he was. It also allows you to focus most of your budget on the monastery set, so that it can be gorgeous for the duration of the season, instead of showing a mountain pass set or a small room.

Then, by the season finale, have Danny Rand make the choice on going home, and we feel that as well, because we will have as much a connection to the monastery as he should.
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Re: Netflix- Marvel's Iron Fist *potential spoilers*

Postby General Zod » 2017-03-21 05:26pm

I don't think you'd need to spend an entire season focusing on Kun Lun, but three or four episodes would have been nice to build a better foundation. Instead it looks more like a really naive and clueless version of Bruce Wayne from Batman Begins.
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Re: Netflix- Marvel's Iron Fist *potential spoilers*

Postby FaxModem1 » 2017-03-21 05:48pm

General Zod wrote:I don't think you'd need to spend an entire season focusing on Kun Lun, but three or four episodes would have been nice to build a better foundation. Instead it looks more like a really naive and clueless version of Bruce Wayne from Batman Begins.


I could see that working, and it would give us a better depth with Danny. As opposed to the 'college boy who visited Asia for a semester' vibe that seems everyone gets from him.


On another note, I kept on waiting for it to be revealed that Danny was delusional about the hidden monastery, because the early episodes frame it that it is all in his head. It would have also been an interesting way to take things, akin to the reveal about what the Mandarin really was in Iron Man 3. Dropping this thread and having the initial few episodes take place in Kun Lun would have been better.
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Re: Netflix- Marvel's Iron Fist *potential spoilers*

Postby General Zod » 2017-03-21 06:10pm

FaxModem1 wrote:
General Zod wrote:I don't think you'd need to spend an entire season focusing on Kun Lun, but three or four episodes would have been nice to build a better foundation. Instead it looks more like a really naive and clueless version of Bruce Wayne from Batman Begins.


I could see that working, and it would give us a better depth with Danny. As opposed to the 'college boy who visited Asia for a semester' vibe that seems everyone gets from him.


On another note, I kept on waiting for it to be revealed that Danny was delusional about the hidden monastery, because the early episodes frame it that it is all in his head. It would have also been an interesting way to take things, akin to the reveal about what the Mandarin really was in Iron Man 3. Dropping this thread and having the initial few episodes take place in Kun Lun would have been better.


I don't think you can push the whole insane thing too far without going into Legion territory. Honestly I would've preferred a far less jittery Danny Rand because he really doesn't project the image that he's a master of anything.
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Re: Netflix- Marvel's Iron Fist *potential spoilers*

Postby Broomstick » 2017-03-22 12:01am

FaxModem1 wrote:I finished the show over the weekend. Not being familiar with the source material, I'm looking at the show itself, and it's rather dry. The premise is guy returns back to civilization after being gone for 15 years, and tries to take back his company. Like a more mystical Green Arrow or Batman.

^ Yep, this plot has been done. If it is done again it needs to have some sort of refreshing twist.

A, we don't see the mystical city he's in, or what he experienced, except for about 5 minutes of flashbacks in total(throughout 13 hours of a season). This means we don't really have a basis for comparison of what is normal for Danny Rand. This also means that the audience is getting a lot of tell, and not much, if any, show. It's hard to find a location's fate compelling when we never see it, or any characters from it.

Even if it's not shown, there are ways to show it - Danny doesn't seem to have much emotional reaction when he speaks of K'un L'un - think of how the Doctor tells Martha about Gallifrey at the end of "Gridlock" - starts at 1:20 - which is quite evocative of where he's from, why he left, and why he doesn't speak of it. Even if you've never seen a bit of Gallifrey the dialogue has meaning, it's showing as well as telling. But we don't have that in Iron Fist.

B. Danny Rand, as a character, doesn't make sense. We have someone who spent the majority of their life in a monastery, and missed things like aliens are real, the Earth has been invaded, SHIELD and HYDRA had a war for years, etc. Danny Rand has no reaction to any of these events, even though that should be huge culture shock.

What makes you think everyone in a monastery is ignorant of major world affairs? Yes, some are very isolated but others are well aware of what's going on in the world outside their walls. Of course, the assumption is that monks are not concerned with the world, but it's possible to show they aren't.

He also doesn't have the personality of a zen monk, full of peace. Either make it part of Danny's character that he never fit in at the monastery because of how different he was, and execute it well, or make Danny more affected by almost two decades of monastery life. This also makes Danny's abandoning of his responsibilities to come to New York hard to connect to, because it seems like Danny doesn't really care, so why should we?

The whole "Danny didn't fit in" is quite plausible, really, given he's be at the minimum a Caucasian in a monastery wholly or mostly Asian. And yeah, his personality doesn't seem very monkish. He would hardly be the first person to try that lifestyle then give it up.

But... we don't know the monks are zen monks, do we? Actually, Asian monasteries have quite the history of violence and connection to politics and warfare, especially in Tibet which is in the Himalayas where the Rands' plane went down. Having some backstory there might have made the series more interesting

The show isn't unwatchable, it's better than some of the other dreck on TV, but it suffers greatly in comparison to the other Marvel offerings.
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Re: Netflix- Marvel's Iron Fist *potential spoilers*

Postby Gandalf » 2017-03-22 12:17am

Broomington, how far into the show are you?
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Re: Netflix- Marvel's Iron Fist *potential spoilers*

Postby FaxModem1 » 2017-03-22 12:48am

Broomstick wrote:
A, we don't see the mystical city he's in, or what he experienced, except for about 5 minutes of flashbacks in total(throughout 13 hours of a season). This means we don't really have a basis for comparison of what is normal for Danny Rand. This also means that the audience is getting a lot of tell, and not much, if any, show. It's hard to find a location's fate compelling when we never see it, or any characters from it.

Even if it's not shown, there are ways to show it - Danny doesn't seem to have much emotional reaction when he speaks of K'un L'un - think of how the Doctor tells Martha about Gallifrey at the end of "Gridlock" - starts at 1:20 - which is quite evocative of where he's from, why he left, and why he doesn't speak of it. Even if you've never seen a bit of Gallifrey the dialogue has meaning, it's showing as well as telling. But we don't have that in Iron Fist.


Good point. Danny doesn't seem fond of his home. Or he's a terrible storyteller when reminiscing about the good old days with his buddy Davos, take your pick.

B. Danny Rand, as a character, doesn't make sense. We have someone who spent the majority of their life in a monastery, and missed things like aliens are real, the Earth has been invaded, SHIELD and HYDRA had a war for years, etc. Danny Rand has no reaction to any of these events, even though that should be huge culture shock.

What makes you think everyone in a monastery is ignorant of major world affairs? Yes, some are very isolated but others are well aware of what's going on in the world outside their walls. Of course, the assumption is that monks are not concerned with the world, but it's possible to show they aren't.


SPOILERS Being stranded in an alternate dimension for 15 years at a time, with a limited window to connect to Earth for a small duration(I think about a year, but they are vague on the matter), kind of affects your ability to keep up with world events.

He also doesn't have the personality of a zen monk, full of peace. Either make it part of Danny's character that he never fit in at the monastery because of how different he was, and execute it well, or make Danny more affected by almost two decades of monastery life. This also makes Danny's abandoning of his responsibilities to come to New York hard to connect to, because it seems like Danny doesn't really care, so why should we?

The whole "Danny didn't fit in" is quite plausible, really, given he's be at the minimum a Caucasian in a monastery wholly or mostly Asian. And yeah, his personality doesn't seem very monkish. He would hardly be the first person to try that lifestyle then give it up.

But... we don't know the monks are zen monks, do we? Actually, Asian monasteries have quite the history of violence and connection to politics and warfare, especially in Tibet which is in the Himalayas where the Rands' plane went down. Having some backstory there might have made the series more interesting


Given Danny's propensity for rattling off koans about inner peace, as well as quoting Buddha, and dealing with his emotions, while also having it brought up that he was trained as a warrior, it's possible that it could be both. It's in the air on whether he was trained to always be a warrior, always be a monk, whether the monastery was full of peace and joy, or whether it's a cult making propaganda fed warriors.

It's why I wish they had actually shown us more of what life was like there. As it is, we only have garbled accounts from two characters, and what we get from them is contradictory.
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Re: Netflix- Marvel's Iron Fist *potential spoilers*

Postby Gandalf » 2017-03-22 01:20am

Spoiler
I can only assume we'll see more of K'un L'un in the second series, or maybe Defenders. I guess now it'll be a lot of flashbacks.

Fuck Danny Rand. Davos is the most likeable person there, because at least he makes sense as a character. He worked his whole life to get the Iron Fist, and was gracious when Danny got it instead. Then Danny runs off without warning, leaving the place unguarded. Then for some reason the show seems to treat him as a bad guy when he gets annoyed at this. Hilariously it looks like he was right, because K'un L'un isn't there any more.

Aside from him, the best characters were the ones who visited from other series.
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