Logan

FAN: Discuss various fictional worlds that don't qualify for SF.

Moderator: Steve

User avatar
Lost Soal
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2614
Joined: 2002-10-22 06:25am
Location: Back in Newcastle.

Logan

Post by Lost Soal »

I went to one of the preview screenings for Logan last night and was not at all disappointed. I'm confident in saying it was the best of the 3 Wolverine movies. It was brutal as hell, because he's a rage monster with fucking metal claws, its supposed to be. It adds just the right amount of humour to lighten the mood when needed without having huge tonal shifts.
Jackman owns the role, Stewart is fucking Patrick Stewart and Dafne Keen who plays Laura/X23 does a fine job.

The trailers did a good job of not showing everything and leaving some surprises for the film although probably everyone knows about one big plot point the trailers just couldn't help spoiling.
"May God stand between you and harm in all the empty places where you must walk." - Ancient Egyptian Blessing

Ivanova is always right.
I will listen to Ivanova.
I will not ignore Ivanova's recommendations. Ivanova is God.
AND, if this ever happens again, Ivanova will personally rip your lungs out! - Babylon 5 Mantra

There is no "I" in TEAM. There is a ME however.
Crazedwraith
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11863
Joined: 2003-04-10 03:45pm
Location: Cheshire, England

Re: Logan

Post by Crazedwraith »

+1 for not just using the trailer thread :D

Going to see it on Monday.
User avatar
Dartzap
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5969
Joined: 2002-09-05 09:56am
Location: Britain, Britain, Britain: Land Of Rain
Contact:

Re: Logan

Post by Dartzap »

I got a free admission with a client this afternoon. Well worth the ticket price!

Uh, I mean it's a vicious, bloody Road trip flick that focuses alot on the fragility of being a centuries old manslaughter machine. No spandex to be seen, mercifully.
EBC: Northeners, Huh! What are they good for?! Absolutely nothing! :P

Cybertron, Justice league...MM, HAB SDN City Watch: Sergeant Detritus

Days Unstabbed, Unabused, Unassualted and Unwavedatwithabutchersknife: 0
User avatar
Gandalf
SD.net White Wizard
Posts: 16285
Joined: 2002-09-16 11:13pm
Location: A video store in Australia

Re: Logan

Post by Gandalf »

Overall, I liked it. All of the acting and violence was fantastic. Though it seemed as though a lot of the action was shoehorned in to meet a quota.
Spoiler
The X-24 thing shit me and pulled me right out of the film. I liked the running theme of man trying to control nature, but X-24 just seemed to be shoehorned in weirdly. Wolverine is slowly deteriorating, so it's not like the PMC guys with guns aren't a threat to him and X-23.

What happens when X-23 grows up as her bones are encased in adamantium?
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"

- A.B. Original, Report to the Mist

"I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately."
- George Carlin
User avatar
FaxModem1
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7700
Joined: 2002-10-30 06:40pm
Location: In a dark reflection of a better world

Re: Logan

Post by FaxModem1 »

Just got back from seeing it. I enjoyed it. Hugh Jackman and Patrick Stewart give the X-men a nice swansong.
Spoiler
Every mutant, aside from the teen labrats, are dead. Beast, Cyclops, Jean Grey, Rogue, Iceman, etc. All dead. Charles Xavier, is dead. Logan, is dead.

All of their fights, all of their struggles, utterly pointless, as they're all dead, and mutantkind is over. In the end, the Colonel Strykers and the Senator Kellys of the world won.

Patrick Stewart's last scene, and Xavier's funeral, made me sad.
The ending scene made me sad as well, though the final image was rather iconic.
Image
User avatar
Tsyroc
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 13746
Joined: 2002-07-29 08:35am
Location: Tucson, Arizona

Re: Logan

Post by Tsyroc »

In response to Gandolf's "spoiler" question.
Spoiler
In the comics X-23's claws are forcibly extended, sharpened and coated in adamantium while she's young. Her bones aren't coated and as far as I know never have been. It makes things a little interesting since she then heals faster than Wolverine but gets jacked up more. She's even had one of her hands cut off while the claws were extended. Her hand grew back with new bone claws but she recovered her original hand and claws, presumably with the intention of putting the metal coated ones back in her body. I'm sure that was fun. Personally, I think that over time the comics got carried away with how much adamantium was on Wolverine's skeleton. It was originally described as being "laced" with adamantium which could be taken to mean any number of things but eventually the comics had his bones essentially dipped or powder coated in the stuff like the frame of an automobile. I don't think that is entirely necessary for it to be done that way to seriously increase the strength of his skeleton and overall durability but that's the way they've gone. I think they've also adjusted things so it doesn't interfere with his blood cell production, put any sort of strain on his healing factor, and somehow his connecting tissues have been protected so he can just be dismembered at a joint like he was in an Ultimate Hulk vs. Wolverine story.
By the pricking of my thumb,
Something wicked this way comes.
Open, locks,
Whoever knocks.
amigocabal
Jedi Knight
Posts: 854
Joined: 2012-05-15 04:05pm

Re: Logan

Post by amigocabal »

Spoiler
-In the original timeline, mutant haters tried to simply openly kill them all. Many humans actually sided with them mutants. In this new timeline, a more sinister method was used (genetically-modified corn whose products would suppress the X-gene), such that Logan did not realize the truth until Dr. Rice told him.
- It seems that in this new world, the only places new mutants would be born would be remote places like Bhutan or central Africa.
- There is a subplot where some thugs used unlawful threats to try to get the Munsons to sell their land to a company called Canehill. I doubt too many people in the audience shed tears when X24 slaughtered them.
- I wonder why no one thought of having a telepathy-blocking helmet available as protection in case Xavier had one of his seizures.
User avatar
PREDATOR490
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1790
Joined: 2006-03-13 08:04am
Location: Scotland

Re: Logan

Post by PREDATOR490 »

I saw it and pretty much liked it. Coming from someone that was completely sick to death and verging on hate of Wolverine.

While the film is pretty tight, I do feel it really suffered with the complete lack of context. The film is super-focused on Wolverine and Co. with no real indication of what is going on in the larger world.
Spoiler
I was a bit confused about what happened to the other X-Men - Xavier's ramblings made it sound like he killed them by accident

Claw Girl - Liked her but the situation with her claws seemed like it was going to end very badly. Even if her claws are the only thing coated in Adamantium, that will cripple her as she grows up. I'm also less than impressed with the bullshit Xavier comes out with about Lions. Is the girl supposed to be mixed with Lion so she has claws coming out of her feet ?

Logan - I still do not get what was actually wrong with Logan. I could buy the old age but the film seemed to imply something was actually in Logan causing him to deteriorate.
Adamantium Poisoning - Fair enough but then Claw Girl will logically suffer the same.

Timeframe Context - Biggest problem with this film.
I can see this as a means for them to jump the franchise over having to bring back the old actors to play the adult X-Men so they essentially just completed the reboot. Now we have a new X-Men generation with the little kids ?

Or is this franchise going to be really stupid and do more time jumps back to the early X-Men years ?

While I expect this will be the last film Stewart and Jackman will do as X-Men. I was kinda hoping to see Deadpool finally get to play with them in a film. Deadpool took plenty of shots at Wolverine in his film so it would be a bit fitting for Wolverine to finally meet Deadpool.
User avatar
Steve
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 9762
Joined: 2002-07-03 01:09pm
Location: Florida USA
Contact:

Re: Logan

Post by Steve »

It is the last movie for Stewart and Jackman, and there are supposedly going to be more movies with the earlier time frame of X-Men. Presumably they'll play this up as a possible future (just as the comic "Old Man Logan" that helped inspire it). My brother told me that a new interview with Jackman has him saying he'll come back as Wolverine for only one occasion: if Marvel Studios gets the rights and they ask him as part of having Wolverine join the Avengers.
Spoiler
The problem with Logan is that his healing factor is starting to fail. Thus the adamantium is starting to poison his body and kill him, and at the same time his weakening healing factor is making him more susceptible to injuries. Laura aka "Claw Girl" will one day face the same problem, but that could literally be centuries. Logan is almost 200 years old at this point.

The point about the lions is analogy, i suspect, to demonstrate why as a female Laura's body produced a claw in each foot and just two claws on her hands instead of three like Logan's.

And I thought the movie made it pretty clear that Xavier's seizures is what killed the X-Men.
”A Radical is a man with both feet planted firmly in the air.” – Franklin Delano Roosevelt

"No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism." - Sir Winston L. S. Churchill, Princips Britannia

American Conservatism is about the exercise of personal responsibility without state interference in the lives of the citizenry..... unless, of course, it involves using the bludgeon of state power to suppress things Conservatives do not like.

DONALD J. TRUMP IS A SEDITIOUS TRAITOR AND MUST BE IMPEACHED
User avatar
FaxModem1
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7700
Joined: 2002-10-30 06:40pm
Location: In a dark reflection of a better world

Re: Logan

Post by FaxModem1 »

Steve wrote:It is the last movie for Stewart and Jackman, and there are supposedly going to be more movies with the earlier time frame of X-Men. Presumably they'll play this up as a possible future (just as the comic "Old Man Logan" that helped inspire it). My brother told me that a new interview with Jackman has him saying he'll come back as Wolverine for only one occasion: if Marvel Studios gets the rights and they ask him as part of having Wolverine join the Avengers.
According to the director, this is the good timeline from Days of Future Past's ending. So, essentially, everything they fought for, all pointless.
Image
User avatar
Steve
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 9762
Joined: 2002-07-03 01:09pm
Location: Florida USA
Contact:

Re: Logan

Post by Steve »

FaxModem1 wrote:
Steve wrote:It is the last movie for Stewart and Jackman, and there are supposedly going to be more movies with the earlier time frame of X-Men. Presumably they'll play this up as a possible future (just as the comic "Old Man Logan" that helped inspire it). My brother told me that a new interview with Jackman has him saying he'll come back as Wolverine for only one occasion: if Marvel Studios gets the rights and they ask him as part of having Wolverine join the Avengers.
According to the director, this is the good timeline from Days of Future Past's ending. So, essentially, everything they fought for, all pointless.
Yeah, but that doesn't mean Fox won't overrule him if it becomes an issue. Or allow another director to contradict him.

And let's face it, there's still more hope in this timeline than in the DOFP Sentinel-overrun one.
”A Radical is a man with both feet planted firmly in the air.” – Franklin Delano Roosevelt

"No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism." - Sir Winston L. S. Churchill, Princips Britannia

American Conservatism is about the exercise of personal responsibility without state interference in the lives of the citizenry..... unless, of course, it involves using the bludgeon of state power to suppress things Conservatives do not like.

DONALD J. TRUMP IS A SEDITIOUS TRAITOR AND MUST BE IMPEACHED
User avatar
FaxModem1
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7700
Joined: 2002-10-30 06:40pm
Location: In a dark reflection of a better world

Re: Logan

Post by FaxModem1 »

Steve wrote:
FaxModem1 wrote:
Steve wrote:It is the last movie for Stewart and Jackman, and there are supposedly going to be more movies with the earlier time frame of X-Men. Presumably they'll play this up as a possible future (just as the comic "Old Man Logan" that helped inspire it). My brother told me that a new interview with Jackman has him saying he'll come back as Wolverine for only one occasion: if Marvel Studios gets the rights and they ask him as part of having Wolverine join the Avengers.
According to the director, this is the good timeline from Days of Future Past's ending. So, essentially, everything they fought for, all pointless.
Yeah, but that doesn't mean Fox won't overrule him if it becomes an issue. Or allow another director to contradict him.

And let's face it, there's still more hope in this timeline than in the DOFP Sentinel-overrun one.
Fair enough, the environment and civilization both seem standing compared to the desolate wastelands of DOFP. Still sucks for the mutants.
Image
User avatar
Iroscato
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2359
Joined: 2011-02-07 03:04pm
Location: Great Britain (It's great, honestly!)

Re: Logan

Post by Iroscato »

I don't get complaints about the lack of continuity with the rest of the X-verse. The X-Men timeline has been a shitastrophe for years now. Just think of it as a kind of Elseworlds tale if it helps you sleep at night.
Yeah, I've always taken the subtext of the Birther movement to be, "The rules don't count here! This is different! HE'S BLACK! BLACK, I SAY! ARE YOU ALL BLIND!?

- Raw Shark

Destiny and fate are for those too weak to forge their own futures. Where we are 'supposed' to be is irrelevent.

- SirNitram (RIP)
User avatar
Gandalf
SD.net White Wizard
Posts: 16285
Joined: 2002-09-16 11:13pm
Location: A video store in Australia

Re: Logan

Post by Gandalf »

FaxModem1 wrote:Fair enough, the environment and civilization both seem standing compared to the desolate wastelands of DOFP. Still sucks for the mutants.
Even in the best possible ending, mutants still get wiped out and enslaved. Evidently Magneto was right.
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"

- A.B. Original, Report to the Mist

"I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately."
- George Carlin
User avatar
Vendetta
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10895
Joined: 2002-07-07 04:57pm
Location: Sheffield, UK

Re: Logan

Post by Vendetta »

Gandalf wrote:
FaxModem1 wrote:Fair enough, the environment and civilization both seem standing compared to the desolate wastelands of DOFP. Still sucks for the mutants.
Even in the best possible ending, mutants still get wiped out and enslaved. Evidently Magneto was right.
Anyone who has read an X-Men comic in the last decade would come to the same conclusion. House of M involved the near complete genocide of the mutant race by magic (the perpetrator went unpunished because she is an Avenger) In A vs. X the Avengers tried to prevent the rebirth of the mutant race by destroying the Phoenix because Tony Stark's reaction to one of the fundamental cosmic entities of the universe is "shoot it with lasers", and now in I vs X the Inhumans have released a weapon of mass destruction which will make Earth completely uninhabitable for Mutants.

Magneto was not only right, he was understating the scope of the problem.
User avatar
Lost Soal
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2614
Joined: 2002-10-22 06:25am
Location: Back in Newcastle.

Re: Logan

Post by Lost Soal »

At this point I have to wonder if Marvel are deliberately trying to spite Fox
"May God stand between you and harm in all the empty places where you must walk." - Ancient Egyptian Blessing

Ivanova is always right.
I will listen to Ivanova.
I will not ignore Ivanova's recommendations. Ivanova is God.
AND, if this ever happens again, Ivanova will personally rip your lungs out! - Babylon 5 Mantra

There is no "I" in TEAM. There is a ME however.
User avatar
Vendetta
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10895
Joined: 2002-07-07 04:57pm
Location: Sheffield, UK

Re: Logan

Post by Vendetta »

I don't think there's any wondering, they've been trying to make people forget the X-Men and love the Inhumans for years (people do not love the Inhumans), they've shitcanned the Fantastic Four, and so on.
Adam Reynolds
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2354
Joined: 2004-03-27 04:51am

Re: Logan

Post by Adam Reynolds »

So I was curious what this film would be like having not seen any of the predecessors, with all of my knowledge strictly from osmosis, which is admittedly a great deal. It was actually quite good regardless of a lack of previous knowledge and did a nice job establishing the setting and characters.

I would second Gandolf's criticism about one of the antagonists and agree it would have been better without that. Spoiler
Though it did allow a nice Chekhov's bullet.
User avatar
Nephtys
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6227
Joined: 2005-04-02 10:54pm
Location: South Cali... where life is cheap!

Re: Logan

Post by Nephtys »

Just saw the movie. I could give two craps about the X-Men, but this was splendid. It built a world by NOT telling you about it. You know the X-Men were once there, had a fictional following as cultural icons of sorts, then sorta just faded away possibly after a few disasters. Then no more mutants. The world moved on, and people generally lived on. The small time farmer was getting pushed out by company interests, and automation continued to eat jobs. But aside from that, it felt right. Thank goodness too that the nurse character and logan were using 12 year old cellphones, I'd hate to see any sorta stupid 'future phone' in play.

Also, guess it must pay well to work at the company where half the employees are missing forearms.
amigocabal
Jedi Knight
Posts: 854
Joined: 2012-05-15 04:05pm

Re: Logan

Post by amigocabal »

Steve wrote:
FaxModem1 wrote:
Steve wrote:It is the last movie for Stewart and Jackman, and there are supposedly going to be more movies with the earlier time frame of X-Men. Presumably they'll play this up as a possible future (just as the comic "Old Man Logan" that helped inspire it). My brother told me that a new interview with Jackman has him saying he'll come back as Wolverine for only one occasion: if Marvel Studios gets the rights and they ask him as part of having Wolverine join the Avengers.
According to the director, this is the good timeline from Days of Future Past's ending. So, essentially, everything they fought for, all pointless.
Yeah, but that doesn't mean Fox won't overrule him if it becomes an issue. Or allow another director to contradict him.

And let's face it, there's still more hope in this timeline than in the DOFP Sentinel-overrun one.
Cable is supposed to make his appearance in a Deadpool sequel.
User avatar
Lord Revan
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 12211
Joined: 2004-05-20 02:23pm
Location: Zone:classified

Re: Logan

Post by Lord Revan »

Vendetta wrote:I don't think there's any wondering, they've been trying to make people forget the X-Men and love the Inhumans for years (people do not love the Inhumans), they've shitcanned the Fantastic Four, and so on.
To be honest the X-men always fit rather poorly to the greater Marvel universe, it's kind of hard to have mutant oppression when you got 10000 superpowered heroes that don't get oppressed, I mean worst someone like Spiderman got is a bad press in a way that's obvious the writer has something against Spiderman personally and the Avengers are generally seen as heroes in-universe IIRC.

X-men work best in a universe where mutants are essentially the only superpowered beings in existance.
I may be an idiot, but I'm a tolerated idiot
"I think you completely missed the point of sigs. They're supposed to be completely homegrown in the fertile hydroponics lab of your mind, dried in your closet, rolled, and smoked...
Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n
AniThyng
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2760
Joined: 2003-09-08 12:47pm
Location: Took an arrow in the knee.
Contact:

Re: Logan

Post by AniThyng »

Spoiler
I felt it was hilarious how tough the limo was. It still was functional when he got rid of it :D. They kinda also hand waved how they got back across the presumably heavily guarded border...
Pringles, the preferred chips of mutants everywhere.
I do know how to spell
AniThyng is merely the name I gave to what became my favourite Baldur's Gate II mage character :P
User avatar
FaxModem1
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7700
Joined: 2002-10-30 06:40pm
Location: In a dark reflection of a better world

Re: Logan

Post by FaxModem1 »

AniThyng wrote:Spoiler
I felt it was hilarious how tough the limo was. It still was functional when he got rid of it :D. They kinda also hand waved how they got back across the presumably heavily guarded border...
Pringles, the preferred chips of mutants everywhere.
I'm surprised it's 2029 and there wasn't a YUGE wall to prevent those dirty mutants from getting in to our country. After all, mutants don't send us their best, they send us their World War III starters, their mass murderers who use magnetism, self-proclaimed gods who want to destroy civilization so that we will worship him, and some, I assume, are nice people.
Image
AniThyng
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2760
Joined: 2003-09-08 12:47pm
Location: Took an arrow in the knee.
Contact:

Re: Logan

Post by AniThyng »

FaxModem1 wrote: I'm surprised it's 2029 and there wasn't a YUGE wall to prevent those dirty mutants from getting in to our country. After all, mutants don't send us their best, they send us their World War III starters, their mass murderers who use magnetism, self-proclaimed gods who want to destroy civilization so that we will worship him, and some, I assume, are nice people.
The weird thing was that it seemed that when he was leaving the US there was the implication that there was a wall. At least one more substantial than a regular border crossing...
myself, because board software wrote: Spoiler
I wish they had a epilogue where some Mounties come over and welcome the kids. That said, would Canada really be so benign to mutants? Wasn't wolverine the product of a Canadian military project to begin with?
I do know how to spell
AniThyng is merely the name I gave to what became my favourite Baldur's Gate II mage character :P
Adam Reynolds
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2354
Joined: 2004-03-27 04:51am

Re: Logan

Post by Adam Reynolds »

Lord Revan wrote: To be honest the X-men always fit rather poorly to the greater Marvel universe, it's kind of hard to have mutant oppression when you got 10000 superpowered heroes that don't get oppressed, I mean worst someone like Spiderman got is a bad press in a way that's obvious the writer has something against Spiderman personally and the Avengers are generally seen as heroes in-universe IIRC.

X-men work best in a universe where mutants are essentially the only superpowered beings in existance.
That is an interesting idea, and makes the current licensing situation actually better than the alternative, unlike Spider Man.
Post Reply