Crazedwraith wrote:Apologies. I realised after posting that you didn't bring it up. I meant to post a retraction but didn't get round to it.
Fair enough. Its all too rare these days that someone will admit they made a mistake in a debate, rather than dig their heels in, and its appreciated.
Yes and no. I disagree that they weren't consequences. It's clear though Rhodey is recovering. It's not quick or easy. Just like real Physical Therapy. Steve's team breaking out of the vault doesn't mean they're not hunting fugitives unable to live their live they're all basically Banner in his wandering days now.
Weren't Steve's people given sanctuary by Black Panther (who conveniently runs a sovereign nation) at the end?
In any case, it still feels like nothing that isn't either being patched over by the end of the film, or likely to be resolved off-screen before the next big team-up.
The needs of the film franchise really preclude really dragging out the reconciliation. But we'll just have to see how Infinity Wars actually handles Steve's rogue team and the reconciliation with the government Avengers.
True. Infinity Wars could somewhat salvage it, but given that it has, as I recall, the same directors (and will already have to balance a lot
of different elements), I'm not terribly hopeful.
Which is another reason why their should have been more lasting consequences in Civil War
To be fair saying if they weren't willing to follow through they shouldn't have done the Civil War is fair enough. But it's not criticism of the film itself, because its the following films that need to show the consequences. Not CW itself.
Its not that they shouldn't have done it. Just that they needed to take the subject, and its consequences, more seriously if they were going to.
Now, yes, you could argue that that would make it harder to reconcile the team for the next film, but I don't know how hard it is to say "Thanos is coming, we need to put our personal issues aside against a common enemy." History is full of that kind of thing.
Or, hell, look at how quickly (mainstream white) America forgave the South after the US Civil War.
To be fair, I think Logan has the opposite problem. It's all grim darkness and 'consequences' and compromised morality but it's all really just 'because' it doesn't follow well from the upbeat hopeful ending of DoFP.
Its always difficult to maintain a consistency in a long-running franchise.
No I agree. Doctor Strange really suffered for this from me. Ant-Man felt different with Scott Lang as a hero. But Strange was just a really well polished, well performed, version of a story we've already seen.
GoftG failed for me in that its not nearly progressive or radical as people we saying before it came out. White guy surrounded by CGI. Again, it's not bad but... hype backlash.
It's basically indefensible that DCEU is getting Wonder Woman out before MCU does a heroine film. Black Widow should have had a phase 3 film if nothing else. Assuming they'd planned phase 2 before Avengers showed she was successful. They should have given Captain Marvel a solo film before Infinity Wars at all.
I think she does have a record number of mcu appearences with being a back up character in IM2 and the Cap sequels.
Agreed. Especially reg. Strange. It was the Marvel formula done about as well as I've ever seen it done. If you like the formula, and haven't gotten tired of it, its a good film. But beneath the different coat of paint, it is derivative as hell.
X-Men has starred straight white males exclusively as well. And mostly the same straight white male: Hugh Jackman. The fact they are team films rather than Solo character films does give them the opportunity to have more strong female characters. Just like the Avengers films do.
Crazedwraith wrote:Star Wars has a massive inbuilt fanbase though. They can take that risk.Other films aren't so lucky.
True, and TFA is sort of an outlier in that, as the first new (live action) Star Wars film in a decade and the long-awaited sequel to the OT, it was pretty much guaranteed to be a massive hit no matter what.
Still, Marvel has quite the large established fanbase now, too. X-Men too, to a lesser extent. Its not like they can't afford to take a few risks that shouldn't even be risks now.
I do worry about that the MCU Bubble will burst just as they do Captain Marvel or Black Widow or something. Then the female stars will get the blame. It's like Catwoman and Elektra. A bad film with a male star is just a bad film. A bad film with a female star is suddenly proof you can't make stars with female leads. To studios I mean. Not in actual fact.
That's a very real concern, yes. Wait until the franchise starts to collapse, try to do something new too little too late, and then blame that for the failure.
Let's just hope the Wonder Woman movie does well (although the track record for the DCCU thus far is very
"Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy." - Lincoln.