You get to make a golem

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madd0ct0r
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You get to make a golem

Postby madd0ct0r » 2016-12-24 08:42am

The art of golem making is rediscovered and quickly spreads around the internet.

In essence, you need: a script and a body.

. This script has a sequence of opening and closing glyphs that seem to be keep to its operation, but are not yet understood. Between the glyphs are written instructions, rules or guidelines. Naturally, the internet copies suggest Asimov's laws and instructions in psuedocode, but long form sentences work just as well. The instructions and glyphs must be written in blood, and the finished golem will only accept instructions from the blood donor. The script may be written on anything by anyone. The golden collapses if the script is destroyed (so a medium immune to wet clay is suggested). Only one script can be used per person.

The body is made out of wet clay, and deforms like someone is pushing it when the golden moves. Any type of clay chemistry works (bentonite, illite, montmorillionite ect) and the clay can also accept up to 50% volume other material such as glass beads, lead, carbon fibres, scaffold pipe ect. The clay must be kept within the plastic and liquid limits (atterberg limits) of the clay. If it is too dry, it will crack as it moves (and the crack will not heal on its own). If it is too liquid, the golden will struggle to maintain its shape, and is likely to collapse during movement. The activated clay remains affected like normal clay to things like heat and acid.


Clay lost from the body after the script is inserted cannot be reattached. You would have to destroy the script, remake the body and write a new script.

What happens?
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Re: You get to make a golem

Postby Alyrium Denryle » 2016-12-24 10:53am

People have some interesting household servants and possibly body guards. Unfortunately we cannot send the Golem of Prague after Nazis, because they would be vulnerable to destruction by modern weapons.
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Re: You get to make a golem

Postby Zixinus » 2016-12-24 11:37am

The creation of the robots, the kind people have dreamed of are made real. To those that can make them, golems are useful servants. What people will use them will naturally be quickly a problem with how different people have good and bad ideas.

Short term: learn all you can about golems. The future is about to be centered around them.

Medium-term consequence is dealing with the bad ideas.

One long-term consequence will be for menial labor, for whom the scenario is nightmarish because they just became unneeded. Golems will not ask for wages and if the scripts can be made complex enough to do a menial labourer's job, why bother with people when you can use tireless golems?
Of course, for the people that can hold unto their jobs the golems are great.

Questions:
- How sentient are the golems? Are they like Practhett's?
- How good a script can they be made? How complicated can you make them?
- Do they have a lifespan? Does it depend on the clay's material properties?
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Re: You get to make a golem

Postby Crossroads Inc. » 2016-12-24 12:05pm

If these are in any way like Pratchetts Golems, not only could they be nigh on invulnerable, but also potentially the most moral life form on the planet.
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Re: You get to make a golem

Postby Crazedwraith » 2016-12-24 12:34pm

Crossroads Inc. wrote:If these are in any way like Pratchetts Golems, not only could they be nigh on invulnerable, but also potentially the most moral life form on the planet.

They are not. Did yo read the bit in the OP about it having to be and stay wet clay? Pratchett's Golems are fully baked.
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Re: You get to make a golem

Postby Crossroads Inc. » 2016-12-24 12:46pm

Yeah, I, well, I kinda evidently missed the "wet" part of :P
So yeah, just sort of a claw "robot" that, it sounds like is rather high maintence then, its cheap...but youdhave to really keep eye on it or it dries out.
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Re: You get to make a golem

Postby madd0ct0r » 2016-12-24 04:08pm

Zixinus wrote:The creation of the robots, the kind people have dreamed of are made real. To those that can make them, golems are useful servants. What people will use them will naturally be quickly a problem with how different people have good and bad ideas.

Short term: learn all you can about golems. The future is about to be centered around them.

Medium-term consequence is dealing with the bad ideas.

One long-term consequence will be for menial labor, for whom the scenario is nightmarish because they just became unneeded. Golems will not ask for wages and if the scripts can be made complex enough to do a menial labourer's job, why bother with people when you can use tireless golems?
Of course, for the people that can hold unto their jobs the golems are great.

Questions:
- How sentient are the golems? Are they like Practhett's?
- How good a script can they be made? How complicated can you make them?
- Do they have a lifespan? Does it depend on the clay's material properties?


The Golems are not sentient. They have no ideas or motivation beyond their script or verbal orders. The script itself will succesfully convey the 'ideas' of the writer. If you want a golem that puts a 30mm long M16 bolt in hole b as part of an assembly process, writing insert the 30mm m16 bolt into hole b is sufficient. For a verbal order, you would need to be more explicit, perhaps defining an m16 bolt by handing it golden

You run the risk of any logical system. Telling a golem to sweep the leaves into a pile might mean it keeps sweeping despite the wind, or might mean it assumes all the leaves include those still on plants and try and sweep those.

In terms of lifespan, it comes down to materials used and decay of the blood written script. Missing words is a bit of a problem, especially when it is a 'not' that gets eaten away by ants.
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Re: You get to make a golem

Postby Sea Skimmer » 2016-12-25 10:58pm

How much power can 7 billion big ones produce? Because it was 3hp that's around 15 terrawatts, which means if everyone made one and told it to turn a crank we could power the entire planet with CO2 neutral power.
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Re: You get to make a golem

Postby madd0ct0r » 2016-12-26 11:35am

3hp seems quite a lot, about the equivalent of thirty people turning cranks per golem. I can't see a single golem hauling a rope to lift a weight having the same output as thirty people hauling a rope, that feels too high.
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It'd represent a major shift in energy production geographically, so I'd guess we'd see the biggest energy users per capita stick with fossil fuels but a lot of use for golems to mitigate poor cheap energy availability in rural developing world.

Assuming wet clay golems can survive the tropics, but maybe that's actually easier then freezing north or arid desert. For the latter, perhaps clingfilm/cellophane?
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Re: You get to make a golem

Postby Zixinus » 2016-12-26 02:27pm

I'd invest in clay. Everyone will want a golem from individuals trough big business to nations. Can clay from expired golems be reused and recycled? Is there a limited amount of supply of clay in the world? Should we worry about clay shortage? Can we make artificial clay?
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Re: You get to make a golem

Postby Solauren » 2016-12-26 02:54pm

Does the automation process increase the physical strength/durability of a golem's base materials?

Cause I have this mental image of golems stacking themselves up to reach the moon now....

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Re: You get to make a golem

Postby Zixinus » 2016-12-26 04:25pm

Would the power/strength of the golem increase with its size? If you make a giant golem, would it be stronger than one half its size? Would the materials of the clay influence the strength of the golem?

Also, must the golem be humanoid? Could you make a golem motor or even an entire car? Could you make a golem that can programmed to respond to electrical signals rather than verbal commands?
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Re: You get to make a golem

Postby Starglider » 2016-12-27 04:59am

The criminal applications are numerous and would cause governments a lot of worry. Since it isn't practical to restrict access to clay, I imagine most countries will fast-track DNA registries, such that at least after a rampaging golem is stopped the blood donor can be identified.
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Re: You get to make a golem

Postby madd0ct0r » 2016-12-27 06:12am

Zixinus wrote:I'd invest in clay. Everyone will want a golem from individuals trough big business to nations. Can clay from expired golems be reused and recycled? Is there a limited amount of supply of clay in the world? Should we worry about clay shortage? Can we make artificial clay?


Clay from expired golems can be reused. There is no shortage of clay as raw material, although mining of it might take a while to step up to meet new demand.

Solauren wrote:Does the automation process increase the physical strength/durability of a golem's base materials?

Cause I have this mental image of golems stacking themselves up to reach the moon now....


The awakening/automation process does not have much effect on the strength durability of the base materials. The same force that animates the golems will help them keep their shape to a point, but unless an skeleton or weight lightening filler is used this process barely compensates for the self weight of the wet clay. Let's assume a human size golem has five times the long term human power output at roughly the strength to scale.

Zixinus wrote:Would the power/strength of the golem increase with its size? If you make a giant golem, would it be stronger than one half its size? Would the materials of the clay influence the strength of the golem?

Also, must the golem be humanoid? Could you make a golem motor or even an entire car? Could you make a golem that can programmed to respond to electrical signals rather than verbal commands?


Materials and size follow the square rule law. So strength increases as volume increases but not at the same speed as self weight does. So there is a theoretical up per limit where a golem can move only its own self weight, even using skeleton tricks and weight reductions in the 50% other materials allowance.
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Re: You get to make a golem

Postby Simon_Jester » 2016-12-27 09:36am

Maddoc, do the golems have to be humanoid?

And what would be the most important modifications you'd make to a golem, in order to make it the most powerful crank-turning golem that is reasonably possible? I imagine you'd pack the clay around something with plenty of tensile strength, say steel wire mesh. Weight wouldn't be so much of an issue because all the golem has to do is sit in a chair turning pedals or something.
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Re: You get to make a golem

Postby Solauren » 2016-12-27 10:36am

If the Golem doesn't have to be humanoid, you could literally make a series of self-turning gears to provide power.

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Re: You get to make a golem

Postby Simon_Jester » 2016-12-27 11:11am

Golems are more or less inevitably perpetual motion machines, but that would make them unusually blatant ones, yes.
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Re: You get to make a golem

Postby madd0ct0r » 2016-12-27 11:29am

I like the idea of non-humanoid golems, but they do have to be a continuous mass, a horizontal windlass with a disc shaped golem that grips a vertical axle and walks around on dozens of little legs to drive it, or more nightmarish ideas involving hollow cylinders golems braced into a building with 100 internal arms to grip and twist an axle shaft.

But with o.5 horsepower useful output from a humanoid scale golem per human , I'm not sure we're looking at world changing crank driving
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Re: You get to make a golem

Postby Sea Skimmer » 2016-12-27 01:34pm

.5hp would still be about 2.6 terrawatts maximum, which is about the entire installed electrical generating capacity for the US and China put together. The US consumes 1843 watts per person, but the world average is only 385, not far above the 372.5 watts a half horsepower equals. Though conversion to electrical energy will involve a slight loss. Perpetual motion machines add up fast, and humans are not weak.

So yeah not so radical, but it'd still mean in places in Africa with no grid power at all you could generate enough to have lights and a fridge going for everyone easily. But other labor would probably be more productive initially. In the west we'd probably just have them turn hand cranks when we don't have something more complicated for them to do.
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Re: You get to make a golem

Postby Darth Tanner » 2016-12-27 04:31pm

madd0ct0r wrote:But with o.5 horsepower useful output from a humanoid scale golem per human , I'm not sure we're looking at world changing crank driving


Why would we be limited to 1 per human? If we can extract 0.3KW output from each golem and the golem is literally a simple 'turn this shaft' device there is no reason they can not be mass produced as the blood requirement will be limited... the only issue will be keeping them in conditions to maximise their clay life whilst not impacting the machinery they are powering.

The average blood donor gives around 500ml which should be enough for 20,000 A4 pages (although blood obviously isnt the best ink) more than enough for the crude instructions we will be using at present - we don't need the golem to understand anything other than 'turn this' the original blood donor does not need to be present for further instructions, just turn the axle for eternity. Hell according to google 500ml of blood is like $200!

Even with a simple 100 units a day production line your going to have 36,500 units after a year outputting £3.8m in electricity at UK rates. You can get 10 tonnes of clay for like £400 so the electricity sector is dead under golem axle turning feet. God bless free cheap electricity for all!
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Re: You get to make a golem

Postby Sea Skimmer » 2016-12-27 07:33pm

Because it says so in the OP.
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Re: You get to make a golem

Postby Darth Tanner » 2016-12-28 04:46am

Sea Skimmer wrote:Because it says so in the OP.


Ok sorry that kind of puts a damper on things and starts a rather disturbing trend of the west harvesting the third worlds blood to power its clean energy golems.

What happens to a golem if its blood creator dies?
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Re: You get to make a golem

Postby madd0ct0r » 2016-12-28 06:10am

It stops working.
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Re: You get to make a golem

Postby Simon_Jester » 2016-12-28 01:19pm

Darth Tanner wrote:Ok sorry that kind of puts a damper on things and starts a rather disturbing trend of the west harvesting the third worlds blood to power its clean energy golems.
To be fair, there is literally nothing stopping Third World countries from using their own blood to power clean energy golems for themselves. And it sounds like making a golem isn't actually very hard from an economic or industrial point of view; it doesn't require heavy machinery.

So I'm pretty sure this kind of thing won't be systematically abused very hard on a global level, if only because it's too easy to make a golem yourself and then rent out its services to the highest foreign bidder.
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