Lord Bruce Wayne (Game of Thrones).

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Lord Bruce Wayne (Game of Thrones).

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2016-11-26 05:28am

Another Game of Thrones substitution, because why the hell not?

At the start of Robert's Rebellion, one Bruce Wayne, aka Batman, awakens in Robert Baratheon's body. He retains Robert's memories but his own mind/soul/personality.

Scenario One: Current comics Batman.

Scenario Two: Affleck Batman as of the end of Batman v Superman.

Scenario Three: DCAU Batman prior to the formation of the Justice League.

What does Batman try to do, far from his city and stranded in a land even more corrupt than Gotham? Besides change House Baratheon's emblem to a bat and its motto to "We are Vengeance, we are the Night", obviously? :lol:

Honestly, I think Affleck-man will handle it best. The no killing rule is going to be a really big handicap for a feudal lord. Also, as an older Batman, Affleck-man will have an edge in experience.

That said, any of them have the skills to do very well in this scenario- tactical knowledge, political/business savvy (admittedly in a very different political and economic system), hand-to-hand combat skills, and a measure of technical/engineering knowledge. The big shortcoming is possible lack of diplomatic/people skills, but Bruce Wayne wouldn't be able to run a business or work with the Justice League if he couldn't at least fake it, and their are lots of much bigger assholes among Westrosi nobility.

Edit: The problem is, of course, that he won't want to rule or war. He'll want to get back home to Gotham, and the hopeless crusade he already has going. :wink:
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Re: Lord Bruce Wayne (Game of Thrones).

Postby Raw Shark » 2016-11-26 07:10am

The Romulan Republic wrote:Besides change House Baratheon's emblem to a bat


I imagine House Whent would have a thing or two to say about that.

While we're on that subject, has anybody else ever noticed that House Baratheon's emblem and colors are lifted directly from one of those Caution: Deer road signs? I was driving one day and it just hit me when I passed one.
Last edited by Raw Shark on 2016-11-26 07:12am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Lord Bruce Wayne (Game of Thrones).

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2016-11-26 07:11am

True, true.

'Twas meant as a joke, in any case. Bruce would never flaunt his secret identity like that.
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Re: Lord Bruce Wayne (Game of Thrones).

Postby Gaidin » 2016-11-26 10:13am

The Romulan Republic wrote:Honestly, I think Affleck-man will handle it best. The no killing rule is going to be a really big handicap for a feudal lord. Also, as an older Batman, Affleck-man will have an edge in experience.

They're all just kinda skipping the existence of the talk and die syndrome that can happen when you knock someone out as hard as batman stereotypically knocks people out. Let's be honest. If Batman fights people the way he fights people in a world like the Game of Thrones, a lot of people are going to die. Just, not to the sword. It doesn't matter which Batman you use. Ben Affleck's Batman was just finally the most honest about how amazingly brutal hand to hand combat is going to get when someone like Batman is going to have to be when going 1vX against people armed with guns to have even a small chance. And the same goes likely for the swords they use in the GoT world if Batman wants to end those fights fast enough so he doesn't want to get stabbed before the next person can get at him.

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Re: Lord Bruce Wayne (Game of Thrones).

Postby Ralin » 2016-11-26 10:25am

Robert wasn't exactly a slouch at combat or killing people himself.

At least, not before he became a literal slouch. Which brings us to a pretty big issue: a lot, maybe most, of Batman's combat abilities are going to be neutralized in this scenario. He's in the body of a fat man whose while still pretty damned strong has long since gone to seed physically. Even assuming he can get back into fighting trim he's probably going to have to relearn a lot his fighting skills to adapt them to his new build. Muscle memory is a hell of a thing.

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Re: Lord Bruce Wayne (Game of Thrones).

Postby Zixinus » 2016-11-26 11:39am

A note about Batman knocking out people: Gotham has a modern hospital that can attend injuries that just wouldn't exist in Westeros. His leeway in how much he can hurt to disable is much smaller now.
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Re: Lord Bruce Wayne (Game of Thrones).

Postby Ziggy Stardust » 2016-11-26 12:07pm

Ralin wrote:Robert wasn't exactly a slouch at combat or killing people himself.

At least, not before he became a literal slouch. Which brings us to a pretty big issue: a lot, maybe most, of Batman's combat abilities are going to be neutralized in this scenario. He's in the body of a fat man whose while still pretty damned strong has long since gone to seed physically. Even assuming he can get back into fighting trim he's probably going to have to relearn a lot his fighting skills to adapt them to his new build. Muscle memory is a hell of a thing.


The scenario says at the START of Robert's Rebellion. That was when Robert was in his physical prime, was it not? He didn't become fat until he became King.

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Re: Lord Bruce Wayne (Game of Thrones).

Postby Captain Seafort » 2016-11-26 12:08pm

Ralin wrote:Robert wasn't exactly a slouch at combat or killing people himself.

At least, not before he became a literal slouch. Which brings us to a pretty big issue: a lot, maybe most, of Batman's combat abilities are going to be neutralized in this scenario. He's in the body of a fat man whose while still pretty damned strong has long since gone to seed physically. Even assuming he can get back into fighting trim he's probably going to have to relearn a lot his fighting skills to adapt them to his new build. Muscle memory is a hell of a thing.


OP wrote:At the start of Robert's Rebellion, one Bruce Wayne, aka Batman, awakens in Robert Baratheon's body. He retains Robert's memories but his own mind/soul/personality.


This isn't King Robert the fat useless lump of GoT that Bats is being dropped into - it's the young, fit, tough and effective fighter who won that crown in the first place.
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Re: Lord Bruce Wayne (Game of Thrones).

Postby Raw Shark » 2016-11-26 12:26pm

Yeah, Rhaegar was no slouch himself, and Robert knocked him down so hard kids are still fishing for his rubies in the river decades later. Batarangs? Fuck you, I have a warhammer. Up against a dedicated swordsman, that not only requires raw power, but precise timing.

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Re: Lord Bruce Wayne (Game of Thrones).

Postby Gaidin » 2016-11-26 01:02pm

Raw Shark wrote:Yeah, Rhaegar was no slouch himself, and Robert knocked him down so hard kids are still fishing for his rubies in the river decades later. Batarangs? Fuck you, I have a warhammer. Up against a dedicated swordsman, that not only requires raw power, but precise timing.

You want to suddenly find Bruce Wayne in Robert's body and learning to live in Westeros somehow with a style of fighting that fits in the world but also that's analogous to the way we normally see him fight? I predict people will be confused by the fact that Robert is now a Water Dancer.

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Re: Lord Bruce Wayne (Game of Thrones).

Postby Raw Shark » 2016-11-26 01:09pm

Gaidin wrote:You want to suddenly find Bruce Wayne in Robert's body and learning to live in Westeros somehow with a style of fighting that fits in the world but also that's analogous to the way we normally see him fight? I predict people will be confused by the fact that Robert is now a Water Dancer.


Like water would actually stop young RB. It's this thing he tells to get the fuck out of his way and then does.

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Re: Lord Bruce Wayne (Game of Thrones).

Postby Gaidin » 2016-11-26 01:25pm

You were commenting on Batman's fighting style. I was commenting on how he'd probably adapt.

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Re: Lord Bruce Wayne (Game of Thrones).

Postby LadyTevar » 2016-11-26 05:45pm

For one thing? He'd not marry
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Re: Lord Bruce Wayne (Game of Thrones).

Postby Elheru Aran » 2016-11-26 06:07pm

LadyTevar wrote:For one thing? He'd not marry

Not only is this characteristic of Batman, it's a fairly sensible move as it gives him options in the future-- he can use the enticement of having a powerful in with the King (assuming he sees his way towards filling Robert's historic role as becoming King of Westeros) as a way to make alliances with the various Houses.

On the other hand, it can hurt him as until he *actually* marries someone, he won't *actually* have that kind of pull, and if he decides to NOT do what Robert did and become King-- I honestly can't see him going that way, it's simply too visible of a position-- he won't have more pull than what House Baratheon normally does. Which, mind you, is pretty generous as it's one of the paramount Houses of Westeros.

And he won't have the same hang-up over Lyanna Stark that OTL Robert did. It's quite possible that without him flying into a rage over Rhaegar kidnapping her and only pursuing formal inquiries with Aegon Targaryen's court, the war that topples the Targaryens may not happen or will happen in a different form.
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Re: Lord Bruce Wayne (Game of Thrones).

Postby Ralin » 2016-11-26 07:59pm

Ziggy Stardust wrote:The scenario says at the START of Robert's Rebellion. That was when Robert was in his physical prime, was it not? He didn't become fat until he became King.


Oh, doh. Totally missed that. Thought it was during Game of Thrones for some reason.

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Re: Lord Bruce Wayne (Game of Thrones).

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2016-11-27 03:13am

Elheru Aran wrote:
LadyTevar wrote:For one thing? He'd not marry

Not only is this characteristic of Batman, it's a fairly sensible move as it gives him options in the future-- he can use the enticement of having a powerful in with the King (assuming he sees his way towards filling Robert's historic role as becoming King of Westeros) as a way to make alliances with the various Houses.


That and that marriage in a pseudo-medieval shit hole like Westeros is basically legally sanctioned sexual slavery (often with girls below the age of consent). Bruce's morals would rebel at such a match.

That leaves the problem of heirs, though.

Could he adopt some noble kid he considers suitable into his house? Which, come to think of it, is basically what he did with Robin (aside from the nobility). :lol:

On the other hand, it can hurt him as until he *actually* marries someone, he won't *actually* have that kind of pull, and if he decides to NOT do what Robert did and become King-- I honestly can't see him going that way, it's simply too visible of a position-- he won't have more pull than what House Baratheon normally does. Which, mind you, is pretty generous as it's one of the paramount Houses of Westeros.


While actual political office is something that Bruce, to my knowledge, has never held or shown interest in holding, he is, of course, no stranger to juggling a high-profile public persona with his secret vigilante crusade. Playboy CEO of one of the world's great corporations (with a tragic backstory for the media to latch onto) is not a low-profile position.

But a king may have less freedom to come and go as he pleases unnoticed, since he'll be constantly surrounded by the usual feudal retinue.

On the other hand, a lot of the things that could potentially expose him in our/his world (an independent judiciary, the paparazzi, voice/facial recognition software, etc.) is not going to exist in Westeros or any of its neighbours.

Still, I don't think Bruce could operate as Batman for long while sitting on the Iron Throne without Varys figuring out something was up. Nor do I think that he would want to sit on the Iron Throne. His life is entirely about his crusade against crime, especially to save Gotham, aside from occasional interruptions by what personal attachments he has. Its likely (depending on the version, anyway) that he fears taking on the role of judge/executioner, which he'd have to if he was a king or even a lord.

Perhaps he could be convinced to sit on the throne if he believed it was the only way to bring justice to Westeros, but I think it would change him- and that's presuming he could even break out of his usual patterns enough to do it.

Although, all this raises an interesting question: If he were removed from Gotham, and had no immediate way to get back, and if this situation persisted for a prolonged period of time, what would Bruce do with himself? Would he even continue his crusade now that such a huge part of his motivation was gone? Most likely he'd devote all his energies to getting back home, and failing that... I don't know.

Probably he'd stay Batman though. He probably doesn't have a clue how to be anything else at this point.

And he won't have the same hang-up over Lyanna Stark that OTL Robert did. It's quite possible that without him flying into a rage over Rhaegar kidnapping her and only pursuing formal inquiries with Aegon Targaryen's court, the war that topples the Targaryens may not happen or will happen in a different form.


I can't see the Starks letting it go regardless, especially after Ned's kin got offed by the Mad King.

Bruce could just say he's sitting it out (probably earning the life-long enmity of House Stark, although I doubt they'd win without his assistance), but its a hell of a choice for him, because either way, people will die because of him.

Either he fights at Ned's side, and people die, if not by his hand, then as a consequence of his orders. Or he backs down, and the Starks probably get crushed in a lopsided war while the Mad King keeps killing people.

Though, dealing with the Mad King would probably be something he'd do regardless. With the insanity, dragon fetish, huge fortress, and stash of wildfyre, Aerys could reasonably be considered the medieval equivalent of a super villain.

But I doubt Bruce would handle it the way Robert did, leading an army against Aerys. More likely he'd try to employ his tried and true methods: Acting alone, or with a small group of trusted, capable confederates, he'd try to take down Aerys's regime with surgical strikes. He'd probably go after Lyanna first (save the innocent victim) and take our the King's Guards protecting her, and Rhaegar if he's their. Disable the King's Guards (though given the points raised about realism and mediaeval health care, unintended deaths are likely), free Lyanna, bring Raegar to Ned's camp trussed up like a turkey to face the closest thing their is to legitimate Justice in Westeros.

Strike two would be infiltrating King's Landing and trying to capture Aerys and spirit him out of the city as a captive. With him as a hostage, they could demand the Targaryens negotiate terms.

Not a realistic strategy in real life, I suppose, but that's how Batman operates, and how it would likely go down if it were a Batman story.
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Re: Lord Bruce Wayne (Game of Thrones).

Postby Raw Shark » 2016-11-27 05:56am

The Romulan Republic wrote:That and that marriage in a pseudo-medieval shit hole like Westeros is basically legally sanctioned sexual slavery (often with girls below the age of consent).


In fairness to Tyrek "Wet Nurse" Lannister, he didn't have a lot of choice in the matter, and (as far we know) he never boned Ermesande Hayford. ;)

Personal theory about his disappearance in that riot: He found himself a mistress of a similar age who he could actually have sex with, and used the confusion as an opportunity to say, "Fuck this Lannister / Political Football shit," and run off with her and a bag of money to start over with the pseudonym Ty Hill on a remote farm or someplace crowded but more-or-less quiet where he could easily be overlooked like Pentos or Oldtown. Somebody in this story has to get a happy ending, right?

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Re: Lord Bruce Wayne (Game of Thrones).

Postby Solauren » 2016-11-27 09:03am

Okay, so Bruce wakes up as Robert....
First question, because it's Batman. has he read the books? (He's apparently read Sailor Moon, so....)

Bruce is smart. Odds are, he'd figured out this is a 'must survive to finish' scenario to escape from it. He'd go out, win the rebellion, and not whore around along the way.

OR

He'll sit down, do some deducing, and figure out that Lyanna ran off willingly, and the way to handle this is go deal with the Mad King so Rhaegar can take the throne.

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Re: Lord Bruce Wayne (Game of Thrones).

Postby Ziggy Stardust » 2016-11-27 09:31am

Is there any reason why Bruce would actually make any effort to fulfill the roles of the head of House Baratheon, as opposed to just handing it over to Stannis or Renly and buggering off to pursue his own agenda? Of course, that begs the question of what exactly his agenda would BE in Westeros. I imagine (assuming for now that the question of returning to Gotham is off the table) that he would still try to become something of a vigilante figure. But who precisely would he target, in a world that makes some of his traditional villains look like saints by comparison? How long until he finds out about the White Walkers?

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Re: Lord Bruce Wayne (Game of Thrones).

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2016-11-27 09:48am

Ziggy Stardust wrote:Is there any reason why Bruce would actually make any effort to fulfill the roles of the head of House Baratheon, as opposed to just handing it over to Stannis or Renly and buggering off to pursue his own agenda? Of course, that begs the question of what exactly his agenda would BE in Westeros. I imagine (assuming for now that the question of returning to Gotham is off the table) that he would still try to become something of a vigilante figure. But who precisely would he target, in a world that makes some of his traditional villains look like saints by comparison? How long until he finds out about the White Walkers?


I figure he'd try to get home, and he'd probably never really give up, but failing that, yes, he'd continue his crusade against crime. And he'd need resources to do that. Since being the owner of Wayne Enterprises isn't an option here, that might persuade him to continue in the role of Robert, if only to have access to funds and a base of operations.

As to targets...

Aerys, obviously, for the reasons already stated. I doubt he'd be interested in overthrowing the entire Targaryen dynasty, though.

So he'd probably try to get a result where one of the younger Targaryens is on the throne. Then maybe turn House Baratheon into a merchant empire/trade hub to fund his other enterprises? Work on improving local infrastructure as his public agenda while playing vigilante on the side?

Day-to-day operations can be left to Stannis, who's sense of justice and duty might not be entirely incompatible with Bruce's, as long as Bruce is their to reign him in when needed.

After that... their are any number of lords who deserve to be brought down (the Freys and Boltons come to mind, as does Tywin Lannister). See if he can uncover anything they've done to cause them to fall afoul of the king, since short of waging war, that's the only legitimate political/legal authority that can really hold them accountable. Or just kill them, in Affleck Batman's case. Melisandre could qualify as a super villain for his new rogues gallery as well.

King's Landing, of course, is a cesspit to rival Gotham, so he should feel right at home their. :D

The Walkers... well, Batman has dealt with enough supernatural apocalyptic threats in any of the continuities in the OP for him to take reports of the Walkers seriously.
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Re: Lord Bruce Wayne (Game of Thrones).

Postby Ralin » 2016-11-27 01:07pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
And he won't have the same hang-up over Lyanna Stark that OTL Robert did. It's quite possible that without him flying into a rage over Rhaegar kidnapping her and only pursuing formal inquiries with Aegon Targaryen's court, the war that topples the Targaryens may not happen or will happen in a different form.


I can't see the Starks letting it go regardless, especially after Ned's kin got offed by the Mad King.

Bruce could just say he's sitting it out (probably earning the life-long enmity of House Stark, although I doubt they'd win without his assistance), but its a hell of a choice for him, because either way, people will die because of him.


Sitting the war out is not an option unless he abandons Robert's identity entirely and flees. Robert did not start Robert's Rebellion. The war was kicked off by Aerys ordering Jon Arryn to send him Ned and Robert's heads and Lord Arryn raising his banners rather than obey by murdering two wards who were guests in his household.

Strike two would be infiltrating King's Landing and trying to capture Aerys and spirit him out of the city as a captive. With him as a hostage, they could demand the Targaryens negotiate terms.


Well I mean, that's more or less what Ser Barristan did at Duskendale.

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Re: Lord Bruce Wayne (Game of Thrones).

Postby Simon_Jester » 2016-11-27 01:37pm

If anyone could infiltrate King's Landing, kidnap the king, and spirit him away, it'd be the Batman.

I am sincerely unsure that anyone could do that.

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Re: Lord Bruce Wayne (Game of Thrones).

Postby Gaidin » 2016-11-27 02:07pm

Simon_Jester wrote:If anyone could infiltrate King's Landing, kidnap the king, and spirit him away, it'd be the Batman.

I am sincerely unsure that anyone could do that.

Except he couldn't. He's no longer the Batman. He's a huge brute with the muscle memory of the fighting skills of a brute, but the memory of fighting like a ninja. He no longer has the precision machinery to make the tools he usually has as the Batman. At best he has a god damn rope. He can probably con his way in? And that's assuming he's not recognized right away as Robert the guy whom the King wants to take possession of his head with a distinct separation from the body. He's rethinking his game from the ground up because he's no longer in modern Gotham. He's no longer Batman. He's in the functional equivalent of medieval Europe with a spattering of magic thrown in for good measure.

You sir, have some issues to work out with your scenario.

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Re: Lord Bruce Wayne (Game of Thrones).

Postby madd0ct0r » 2016-11-27 04:10pm

I think Robert Baratheon can request custom armour to be made, and I'm sure could impart a thing or two about metallurgy and stress design: probably look like this: https://www.wired.com/2010/08/batman-knight-squire/
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Re: Lord Bruce Wayne (Game of Thrones).

Postby Gaidin » 2016-11-27 04:14pm

Armor, maybe. Utility belt is where you're going to have your problems. Better impart some knowledge of a machine shop while you're at it and downright turn people into full blown engineers.


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