Fantastic Beasts (Spoilers probably.)

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The Romulan Republic
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Re: Fantastic Beasts (Spoilers probably.)

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2016-12-15 04:42pm

Apparently Ron Perlman had a small role, so that's another name I at least recognized.
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Re: Fantastic Beasts (Spoilers probably.)

Postby Crazedwraith » 2016-12-15 04:43pm

He was the voice of the Goblin in the bar scene. The one who wants the Bowtruckle as payment. Thought I recognised him.
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Re: Fantastic Beasts (Spoilers probably.)

Postby Elheru Aran » 2016-12-15 05:26pm

Crap, yeah. Obviously that's not something I would notice, though something did tickle the back of my mind about the Goblin. VA work is different though, much less prominence usually unless it's an entirely animated film. Perlman is what I'd categorize as usually a B-list actor... a supporting role most of the time.

Anyway, yeah, I saw this last night.

Thoughts: Wow, the American wizards are dicks.

I wasn't *hugely* fond of Newt Scamander; guy barely said five words the whole movie, or at least that's how it felt sometimes. Half the time he's just standing there looking awkward. Kowalski stood out pretty well actually compared to Newt. Where Redmayne did steal the show was when he was in Newt's element, dealing with the animals... there he actually became animated and could talk about stuff. I liked that. Especially the little bit where he's doing some kind of mating dance or something with the Erumpent. That was cutely hilarious, seeing the gawky little English dude strutting about and making animal noises to woo this massive rhino-beast...

That said, I can see how he might be a natural enough depiction of a nerd who's most comfortable in his element and awkward socially to a pathological degree, especially in a new environment. It also works thematically as a counterpart to Credence, who is similarly weird and awkward.

Interesting point though. Kowalski apparently didn't get out of the military until fairly recently, IIRC he says he didn't get out until 1924? Did HP-WWI go on for longer, or start at a later date, than RL WWI?

I like that we see some more overt, powerful displays of magic here. Newt rebuilding Kowalski's apartment with ease, the Aurors reassembling the city bit by bit as the magic venom Oblivates all the Muggles... it's a pretty impressive demonstration compared to HP, which makes sense as these are experienced adult wizards in their element rather than a bunch of schoolkids.

I suspect the next few movies (there are five total planned IIRC) will involve Newt going to different continents and showing us the wizarding worlds of those continents. Transylvania, Durmstrang, vampires and werewolves? Africa, ancient Egyptians and native magic? I think there were indications that it could happen given the multi-ethnic character of the council or whatever it was that was meeting in MACUSA-- I definitely saw Chinese (Korean? Japanese?) wizards in there, a Russian in a Cossack coat, and probably more that I simply didn't notice.
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Re: Fantastic Beasts (Spoilers probably.)

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2016-12-15 07:00pm

Kowalski mentioned that he helped in the reconstruction forces? I don't remember entirely...

So... do you think the hot Goldstein girl occlumens restored his memories with her mind powers?
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Re: Fantastic Beasts (Spoilers probably.)

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2016-12-15 07:05pm

Yeah, Kowalski said he left the armed forces later, not at the end of the war.

Interestingly, Newt was apparently a veteran on the Wizarding side (Pottermore mentions that while the Wizarding government in Britain tried to keep wizards out of the war, a lot of wizards got involved illegally). However, it sounds like he had more of a behind the lines role, using his knowledge of magical creatures (he says that he worked with dragons on the Eastern front).
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Re: Fantastic Beasts (Spoilers probably.)

Postby Crazedwraith » 2016-12-15 07:19pm

I wasnt quite clear on whether Newt was supposed to have taken part in the war or whether the iron bellys comment eas what he was doing instead.

His brother was mentioned as a war hero.
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Re: Fantastic Beasts (Spoilers probably.)

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2016-12-15 07:33pm

What wizarding conflict *was* Newt involved beforehand? Or was it the Muggles' war?
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Re: Fantastic Beasts (Spoilers probably.)

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2016-12-16 12:48am

Again, its stated somewhere on Pottermore that a lot of wizards illegally interfered in the Muggle First World War. And, presumably, their were government efforts to contain it.

Probably the same war.
"Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy." - Lincoln.

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Re: Fantastic Beasts (Spoilers probably.)

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2016-12-16 12:55am

Ah I'm presuming by Newt's tendencies he probably relocated rare magical lifeforms that got endangered by the warring.
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Re: Fantastic Beasts (Spoilers probably.)

Postby AniThyng » 2016-12-16 05:26am

Glad that we established senator Shaw and his father were assholes and bigots lest we feel any sadness that the senator died and his father...has..his memory..wiped? Not sure what would happen there...
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Re: Fantastic Beasts (Spoilers probably.)

Postby General Zod » 2016-12-16 03:29pm

AniThyng wrote:Glad that we established senator Shaw and his father were assholes and bigots lest we feel any sadness that the senator died and his father...has..his memory..wiped? Not sure what would happen there...


Given Kowalski was still having dreams about the events he saw and they took the form of his bakery creations, I can only assume those gaps in senator's daddy's memory would be filled in somehow.
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Re: Fantastic Beasts (Spoilers probably.)

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2016-12-16 04:15pm

AniThyng wrote:Glad that we established senator Shaw and his father were assholes and bigots lest we feel any sadness that the senator died and his father...has..his memory..wiped? Not sure what would happen there...


I actually felt a little bad for the Senator and his family.

I think the significance of them being dicks, in part at least, is that the Obscurus was a manifestation of Credence's mind/emotions, going after the people who were dicks towards him (first the Senator, then his mother, then the Wizarding government.
"Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy." - Lincoln.

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Re: Fantastic Beasts (Spoilers probably.)

Postby Elheru Aran » 2016-12-16 05:09pm

General Zod wrote:
AniThyng wrote:Glad that we established senator Shaw and his father were assholes and bigots lest we feel any sadness that the senator died and his father...has..his memory..wiped? Not sure what would happen there...


Given Kowalski was still having dreams about the events he saw and they took the form of his bakery creations, I can only assume those gaps in senator's daddy's memory would be filled in somehow.


Of course, what do you think they'd go without putting a sequel hook in?
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Re: Fantastic Beasts (Spoilers probably.)

Postby Alyrium Denryle » 2016-12-19 02:14am

Elheru Aran wrote:I wasn't *hugely* fond of Newt Scamander; guy barely said five words the whole movie, or at least that's how it felt sometimes. Half the time he's just standing there looking awkward. Kowalski stood out pretty well actually compared to Newt. Where Redmayne did steal the show was when he was in Newt's element, dealing with the animals... there he actually became animated and could talk about stuff. I liked that. Especially the little bit where he's doing some kind of mating dance or something with the Erumpent. That was cutely hilarious, seeing the gawky little English dude strutting about and making animal noises to woo this massive rhino-beast...


Newt is, as far as I can tell, courtship-dancing along the autism spectrum, and that is awesome.

The Romulan Republic wrote: Okay, so, seen the film.


Spoiler
I actually kinda like heroes who dont have notable character failings. There actually are good decent people and they don't need to have anger management issues or bigotries or strange insecurities. In this case, you have a wildly intelligent autistic hufflepuff, and some of his newfound friends one of whom is somewhat...well fixated on doing her old job while terrified of losing the one she has to the point that she wont assert herself. The actress could have done a better job (she fell a bit flat for me), Newt is just pure awesome as far as I am concerned.

As for the movie's structural issues... I am not sure that--given the concept--there was much of a choice. Newt came to New York and ends up having a problem, while being pulled into something bigger (which is presumably the thrust of the next few films) while still having to deal with that problem and having no clue what is going on for a while. I personally cannot think of a better way to handle that, and perhaps it is a flaw in the base concept but I think it was dealt with about as well as could be expected.

"Also, anyone else pissed that that cunt running MACUSA never really got called out for her horse shit? She not only got hoodwinked by Grindelwald posing as her right-hand man (marginally forgivable), she runs a regime that enforces strict apartheid laws (which she seems quite willing and indeed determined to uphold) and where its apparently okay to sentence someone to summary execution without trial or appeal, and shows not a flicker of remorse over her men killing an abuse victim who Newt and Porpentina probably could have talked down.

What a scumbag."

Honestly, I dont think she does run such a government. "Graves" is Grindelwald, afterall. The Imperious Curse is something he can and likely would do rather trivially. And you dont have to give real-time commands. Running commands are possible. So hit the executioners (and you will have some... this is America...) with an Imperious Curse and the command to "Obey my orders without question because I act with MACUSA authority, and tell no one", and there you go. Hit-Wizards.

As for the muggle thing... there is a history there. Imagine the inquisition if there actually were witches who were known? How nasty would that get? The muggles cannot really threaten the existence of wizards (what with the ability to fold space time and break entropy), but imagine just a single wizard needing to defend themselves? Talk about body count. In the modern world we could probably accept wizards among us without going all torch-happy. However, that society has wizards walking among them, and all kinds of strange shit happening. There are probably little leaks all over the fucking place (like what happened to Newt early in the film) that just cannot be proven or corroborated. So the muggle world in the 1920s still probably has a more superstitious culture that is saturated with negative folklore about witches and the like. The "New Salemers" draw crowds who are not throwing vegetables at them, for instance.

That could get nasty fast. Apartheid is probably best for everyone under those conditions.
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