Luke Cage (spoilers)

[PREDATOR490]

Up to Episode 9 - At this point I am finding increasingly silly Luke Cage is going to be ignored

Walking down the street with a high tech rifle that shoots super bullets - Which are supposed to be made out of Chitauri metal would attract attention extremely fast.

Add that to Luke Cage actively engaging law enforcement on tape that goes viral - That goes well beyond what any decent organisation with SHIELD's resources would ignore. I can even see reason for Tony Stark to be weighing in due to the advanced bullets they are playing with which is coming from a big name weapons company.

Those kind of bullets should end up with an uproar really quickly when they are somehow making it to criminal elements. It was bad enough showing a rocket launcher being fired on the street without bringing in magic bullets that are horrifically powerful. Those rounds should easily be able to shred almost any of the Avengers.

[General Zod]

In Seson 4 Coulson has been put on a very tight leash, so he may not have a choice about ignoring it.

[Tsyroc]

By the end of the show I'm kind of surprised that the Sokovia accords haven't become an issue for Cage.

Maybe that will come up with the Defenders?

[Crazedwraith]

By the end of the show I'm kind of surprised that the Sokovia accords haven't become an issue for Cage.

Maybe that will come up with the Defenders?

He's not an Avenger and doesn't wear a costume?

[PREDATOR490]

Finished it

By the end of this series Luke Cage has attracted so much public attention that being ignored is extremely implausible. Even if Luke Cage is 'low powered' the very public usage of advanced technology should be bringing down a world of attention. SHIELD is supposed to be designed to react to that kind of shit and even if only for the personal interest.

With that final battle, I can see ample reason for even Tony Stark, SHIELD and any Sokovia enforcement agency to be diverting their attention at Hammer Industries for somehow letting this kind of tech get on the street. The only way I can see that flying is if Hammer Industries are doing it with approval but even that would not stop some investigations into what is going on.

Overall, I found the series a really weak entry compared to JJ or DD. I feel it might do better if they actually allow more integration between the series since it allows multiple heroes to play off each other outside their extremely narrow street focus. I am hoping they will actually follow through with the indication that DD might show up to act as a Lawyer for Luke Cage. Not to mention DD can also do the same for JJ since she was directly mentioned 'snapping' someone's neck for 'Mind Control'.

[General Zod]

With Justin Hammer in prison there's not much else they can do with Hammer Industries. Tony had a problem with his weapons ending up on the black market before he decided to get out of the weapons production game.

[Feil]

I just finished the show. My thoughts:

Acting and cinematography were great. The characters own their roles from episode 1 and whoever's handling that camera is a genuine artist.

Action was pretty good - it didn't let the show down, certainly - but it didn't really stand out for its own sake.

Screenplay quality was varied, definitely the weakest part. It meandered badly in episode 1, ran strong from about 2-7 while Cottonmouth and Shades were driving the plot, and then went through varying stages of "forced" after Cottonmouth's death, culminating with the horribly shoehorned-in fistfight between Cage and Diamondback. The screenplay also cemented my opinion about superhero shows: the more sci-fi stuff you inject into the world, the less the real world makes sense alongside it. Superheroes, almost by definition, are sci-fi characters interacting with the real world. Therefore they are best if each character's journey is viewed as its own reboot.

Music and sound design blew my mind. Great doesn't begin to describe it. Possibly the best sound direction I've ever heard in a television show. Sound and music even carries some scenes where the screenplay would otherwise fall flat, like the candy-bar scene where Domingo threatens Cottonmouth in the club.

[Gaidin]

With Justin Hammer in prison there's not much else they can do with Hammer Industries. Tony had a problem with his weapons ending up on the black market before he decided to get out of the weapons production game.

Hammer Industries will have a new CEO and board of directors that they can certainly go after. Nevermind if it was a lackey on the design teams for the bullets and/or the suit that made a deal with Diamondback. There's a lot they can do with Hammer Industries especially if they want to attack it from a SHIELD investigation stance and Hammer Industries has contracts with classified information. There are laws.

This shit, to put it another way, doesn't just fall off the back of trucks. That would be someone's ass.

[General Zod]

With Justin Hammer in prison there's not much else they can do with Hammer Industries. Tony had a problem with his weapons ending up on the black market before he decided to get out of the weapons production game.

Hammer Industries will have a new CEO and board of directors that they can certainly go after. Nevermind if it was a lackey on the design teams for the bullets and/or the suit that made a deal with Diamondback. There's a lot they can do with Hammer Industries especially if they want to attack it from a SHIELD investigation stance and Hammer Industries has contracts with classified information. There are laws.

This shit, to put it another way, doesn't just fall off the back of trucks. That would be someone's ass.

If the real world is anything to go by, (hell, if Luke Cage is anything to go by), Hammer Industries might just get nailed with a few massive fines. The only reason that Justin Hammer is in prison is because he was caught red handed deliberately colluding with Ivan Vanko.

[Gaidin]

If I want the real world I'll go to work.

[PREDATOR490]

I would expect any organisation, good or bad, in the world will want to get their hands on those rounds which could hurt the Avengers never mind the 'low powered' category. It is going to be rather silly if someone like Diamondback / Cottonmouth can procure this kind of ammunition yet high tech agencies like SHIELD cannot.

I feel like Luke Cage seriously failed at trying to tell a low-key story when it manages to escalate to the point that another hero popping in is rather likely in a city crawling with them.

[Broomstick]

RAAAAR!

After that ending I want to punch something!
Spoiler

Mariah goes free, that murdering bastard Shades is at large and teamed up with her, Luke is on the way back to Seagate, Creepy Doctor What's-His-Name gets to experiment on Diamondback after recovering all his formerly lost data.

The upside is that this might actually get Matt Murdock off his ass and back to actual lawyering.

[Majin Gojira]

I finished it this morning (though I still have to finish Jessica Jones, that thing plays on my Anxiety issues something fierce) and found it thoroughly enjoyable. While I felt that Cottonmouth was the strongest of the villains presented, I didn't mind any of the weaker elements (though on reflection, yeah, they were there).

I have to agree with a lot of the discussion about the implications of this series. The proliferation of "Supertech" to this level and Luke's public presence has got to bring up some repercussions. Given some comments at NYCC, it could have some SHIELD stuff appear in future Netflix series (Defenders, probably), with a few references in this season of SHIELD.

But it does depend on when this series takes place. It seems, to me at least, to be just before Civil War. But I haven't finished Jessica Jones, so I could be wrong.

[Solauren]

One has to wonder if Hammer Industries wasn't absorbed into Shield, and when Shield fell, they 'broke off', and maybe could be considered a Hydra branch now? It would explain the sudden jump in tech competency....

And the way to deal with Hammer Industries is simple. Seize all assets for possessing alien tech and possibly treason.

[NeoGoomba]

I'm wondering if the Netflix series' are pulling a Cinematic Universe move and ignoring Agents of SHIELD as well. It's probably far easier for them to work in the framework provided by the films than it is the films plus whatever AoS is coming up with. It helps me out, I know, because I don't watch AoS.

And yeah, the Netflix series' really almost have to take place before Age of Ultron, film-verse wise. No SHIELD to swoop in, only whatever corporate entities can evade outright government detection. Diamondback getting swallowed up by whatever corporation owns SeaGate makes perfect sense. The proliferation of Judas ammunition is going to be a huge thing. I hope they touch on it, somehow.

And regarding Justin Hammer, I wouldn't be surprised if he's out, heading up his company again after some Senator Gary Shandling-type figure too afraid of the rise of super humans to hold him accountable for trying to kill Stark when he's an intelligent, morally compromised tech developer. I mean, Hammer did have skills, he just wasn't Tony Stark.

[FaxModem1]

In the Marvel one-shot, All hail the King(the one with the fake Mandarin). Justin Hammer is seen rotting in prison with his prison boyfriend. So unless they changed something, or its non-canon, Justin Hammer is still imprisoned.

Doesn't mean that his company isn't still up to bad things, though.

[Gandalf]

I'm wondering if the Netflix series' are pulling a Cinematic Universe move and ignoring Agents of SHIELD as well. It's probably far easier for them to work in the framework provided by the films than it is the films plus whatever AoS is coming up with. It helps me out, I know, because I don't watch AoS.

Does anyone watch that show any more? Every time I've tried to watch it I marvel at how such a rich universe can be made so dull.

And yeah, the Netflix series' really almost have to take place before Age of Ultron, film-verse wise. No SHIELD to swoop in, only whatever corporate entities can evade outright government detection. Diamondback getting swallowed up by whatever corporation owns SeaGate makes perfect sense. The proliferation of Judas ammunition is going to be a huge thing. I hope they touch on it, somehow.

A theme I took from the Netflix shows was that nobody cares about the streets, much like real life. Some Judas stuff got loose and is being used to fight a black superhero? Free weapon testing on a live target.

And regarding Justin Hammer, I wouldn't be surprised if he's out, heading up his company again after some Senator Gary Shandling-type figure too afraid of the rise of super humans to hold him accountable for trying to kill Stark when he's an intelligent, morally compromised tech developer. I mean, Hammer did have skills, he just wasn't Tony Stark.

Maybe he was pardoned after Avengers 2, so that if another of Stark's pet projects goes on a rampage someone could be there to help. If you ignore the hacking, the Hammer drones worked pretty well.

[Tsyroc]

Does anyone watch that show any more? Every time I've tried to watch it I marvel at how such a rich universe can be made so dull.

I do, but I think your opinion of the show is pretty accurate. I'm reminded of my obsessive comic book reading/collecting days when I would keep buying/reading books when they had actually become rather flat. Agents of SHIELD has its moments but it is surprising how few and far between they can be. I've liked the introduction of Ghost Rider this season but the rest of the show is meh, at best.

I think they really need a fairly significant tie-in to the MCU or to start putting out some outstanding stuff themselves.

I don't mind the three different elements of Marvel's staying mostly separate since during the heyday of my comic reading big chunks of the Marvel Universe tended to stay separate and only crossover occasionally or in passing, but there are times when it just didn't make sense that all of these NYC based heroes didn't interact with each other more. Luckily it looks like Netflix' side of things will deal with that in the Defenders, even if they aren't likely to see other NYC Marvel characters like Spiderman and Dr. Strange.

[Elheru Aran]

Agents of Shield got lucky early on when they pulled out one of their characters in Winter Soldier... but since then it sounds like they've gone a long way aside from the MCU. I agree, they need a serious tie-in soon or it'll be obvious that they're just trying to ape the MCU's success.

[PREDATOR490]

The way AoS is going I think it should have just stuck to being 1 season since they managed to ride out the Avengers film all the way to Winter Soldier with a fairly good flow going. Clearly because the movies were not coming out as much and the series had ample time to integrate with the films.
Now AoS is barely treading water with no real interactions the films or any of the movies which nukes the whole premise of what AoS started out as.

It gets really fucking stupid when you make the next season plot about rebuilding SHIELD with Fury passing the torch to Coulson only for the next Avengers film to introduce the MOVIE SHIELD back with Fury at the head. Brilliant way to make your series look pathetic and undermine any relevance it had.

Alternatively, AoS could have been broken up in to Mini-Seasons between the bigger movies so as to make tie-ins and cover up loose threads to keep interest in the Marvel Universe going between the films. As it is, it has been years now and the Avengers STILL do not know Coulson is alive... because fuck knows why.

[Vendetta]

As it is, it has been years now and the Avengers STILL do not know Coulson is alive... because fuck knows why.

Because as far as Joss Whedon is concerned he isn't.

The strength of the Marvel TV series is that they've kept the link between them and the films so distant.

[Crazedwraith]

It gets really fucking stupid when you make the next season plot about rebuilding SHIELD with Fury passing the torch to Coulson only for the next Avengers film to introduce the MOVIE SHIELD back with Fury at the head. Brilliant way to make your series look pathetic and undermine any relevance it had.

There was no revived movie Shield with Fury. No films after AoU have remotely implied such a thing. And AoU only implied he'd brought a helicarrier to this one specific event. Not that Shield was back.

If you ever thought the movies were going to reference a TV show that 99% of their intended audience hasn't seen you were not being in anyway realistic. Coulson's return for example barely worked as a season long subplot. Bring him back in an movie with minimal explanation is just going to confuse and annoy people. It's continuity lock out. Which is exactly why the movies only reference other movies.

How about we talk about Luke Fucking Cage? I'm up to the end of episode 12 and the series really lost it's way near the end. The early representation of Diamonback was a Fisk like figure pulling strings. When he actually appears he acts so recklessly and violently that you wonder how he managed things behind the scenes. Ep 12 was good in that it all last examined more of the public reaction to Cage as a street hero and actually had him doing street hero stuff. Too often it quickly becomes just a grudge match between hero and villain.

[NeoGoomba]

I was honestly hoping for some kind of swerve where Diamondback WAS Fisk, looking to consolidate the city. Diamondback being Stryker seemed like it was shoehorned in. The brothers' quarrel would have been an excellent season-long plot for Season Two if it was given more time to develop organically. Erik Harvey is an awesome actor, and I wish they gave him more quality screentime.

For that matter, there was really no weak link, cast-wise IMO. Everyone fucking nailed their parts, and their performances really helped push through any weak scenes.

Also, the warden of SeaGate looked like a gods damned Joffery Baratheon all grown up. It was terrifying.

[Cykeisme]

The way AoS is going I think it should have just stuck to being 1 season since they managed to ride out the Avengers film all the way to Winter Soldier with a fairly good flow going. Clearly because the movies were not coming out as much and the series had ample time to integrate with the films.
Now AoS is barely treading water with no real interactions the films or any of the movies which nukes the whole premise of what AoS started out as.

It gets really fucking stupid when you make the next season plot about rebuilding SHIELD with Fury passing the torch to Coulson only for the next Avengers film to introduce the MOVIE SHIELD back with Fury at the head. Brilliant way to make your series look pathetic and undermine any relevance it had.

Alternatively, AoS could have been broken up in to Mini-Seasons between the bigger movies so as to make tie-ins and cover up loose threads to keep interest in the Marvel Universe going between the films. As it is, it has been years now and the Avengers STILL do not know Coulson is alive... because fuck knows why.

The idea of the TV serials and movies all being part of one single overarching universe was pretty cool, but I think they could only keep it up for so long, and real-world practical considerations eventually caught up with 'em.
Frankly, the way I see it, AoS is now in a completely separate continuity from the movies. For one thing, there's too many instances to excuse where threats were so serious that at least some Avengers should have shown up, but didn't.. and conversely, the TV serials occasionally upping the ability power levels to the point where they should at least be mentioned as upcoming players in the movies, or even getting poached the way Stark signed up Spidey.
And then there's also outright discontinuity, which may increase even more with each new movie script that ignores the serials entirely.

It's now in a peculiar state of having "one-way" crossovers, where things only trickle down but not back up.. and even then, only some things.
For example, all the serials have the big events of the movie (the Chitauri Incident especially) happening in their timeline, but Avengers never appear in the serials. And it's one-way, because TV stuff isn't going to appear, or even ever be mentioned, in the movies.

It's obvious how this stuff works out-of-universe (the main movie stars are too expensive and busy for TV shows, although I thought at least getting Sif into AoS was pretty cool), but is there a consistent logic to explain all this in-universe?
ALSO, why can't they have more TV guys just show up, even briefly, as supporting characters in the movies? This should be pretty easy from the real-world standpoint, right?

ALSO ALSO, are all the various Marvel TV serials even integrated into the same continuity, or only some? Like, DD/Punisher and JJ/LC?

Edit: Back when AoS was in its first season, I thought that we'd see some big-name Avengers showing up, for at least 15 minutes per season, every now and then. Like, maybe the big stars would even do it for fun (i.e. nominal wage). But either that was never the plan, or it turns out the stars weren't anywhere nearly as willing as the TV guys thought.

[Crazedwraith]

All the netflix series are connected. Mostly by the Character of Claire Temple.

One thing that does annoy me crossover wise is that no-one eever ever uses the Avengers code names. Resorting to the most absurd descriptive terms instead of the Code names. Even when the MCU the code names are generally the result of the in-universe media inventing terms for them. The Hulk and Captain America are much easier and more causal terms to say than 'the big green angry dude' and 'the old dude with the shield.'

Edit: Back when AoS was in its first season, I thought that we'd see some big-name Avengers showing up, for at least 15 minutes per season, every now and then. Like, maybe the big stars would even do it for fun (i.e. nominal wage). But either that was never the plan, or it turns out the stars weren't anywhere nearly as willing as the TV guys thought.

Yeah all we got was SLJ. I though the Avengers stars said they would when doing the rounds for AoU and Clark Gregg was there but that could be for appearances. You'd think they could bundle guest slots for AoS in with movie budgets or something but that might be logistically difficult.

The appearence would have to be pretty limited. You could do hulk or thor or an iron suit on a TV budget with any accuracy. Widow or Hawkeye would have been ideal S1.