U.P. Cinnabar wrote:
Simon_Jester wrote:, it will not take them five minutes to break into a garage.
Because firefighters and EMTs carry axes, which can chop through garage doors(most are thin sheet metal at best). I don't know if the police do on a regular basis.
The police have clubs, tire irons, and the like.
Emergency personnel have the authority to do what is necessary to save a life, including ramming a garage door with one of their vehicles. They will get in, don't worry about that, and do it very quickly.
Archinist wrote:They still have to get all their own equipment ready, so they don't die/get harmed from exposure from the gases, amonsty other precautions.
Police can hold their breath if necessary, run in, smash the door, then run away. CO will dissapate rapidly with open air venting. Fire trucks will have self-contained breathing apparatus.
When my sister committed suicide via running car in a garage the police just smashed in the door, waited a minute or two, then went in after her. No one hurt but the dead woman. So please don't come back with more bullshit.
Lord Revan wrote:Just don't.
You're still not getting Simon's point, which is that military hardware is so heavily restricted and expensive that pretty much anyone who can afford them will not act like a bunch of chavs. Also any responce to "rogue bird" will be to confront them and if they don't stand down or submit a flight plan, shoot them down, oh and before anyone brings up 9/11 those planes did submit a flightplan, it's just that terrorist didn't follow that flightplan and it took time for the autorities to react.
I should also point out that response procedures to “rogues” since 9/11 have been updated. For example, intercept airplanes now have the option to be armed. This is a case where weapons will
be on board and usable.
Just ask Broomstick what would happen in Air Traffic Controller detected a "rogue bird" (aka a plane with no known flight plan), she would know as she used to fly planes.
Actually, in the US it is in fact legal to fly without filing a flight plan under many circumstances. Part of what tipped off authorities that there was a problem on 9/11 was that not only did the airliners deviate from their flight plan, but also turned off their transponders which makes them largely invisible to secondary radar (that's the mode ATC usually uses). Much harder to track them with primary radar, but it is certainly possible and the civilian FAA can call on the military for assistance in doing just that, with people trained in doing that.
Lord Revan wrote:You know there's this thing called Radio Detection and Ranging, more commonly called Radar, there's very few places in USA or Europe that aren't under radar coverage and once a plane pops into those radars with identification or flight plan it will be challenged By the closes Air Traffic Control centre. It doesn't matter if you took of from an airfield or you parents basement once you're airborne you MUST submit a flightplan or be shot down it's as simple as that.
Again, while the flightplan requirement you mention is the case in many parts of the world it is not the case in the US (and, I believe, parts of Canada but I'm not as familiar with their regulations as the US ones, and in any case, as a foreign pilot in Canada I'd have to be extra careful about my activities).
However, if someone spots an aircraft firing bullets or whatever, though, be sure the FAA will be trying to contact that aircraft over the radio, and sending a couple of fighters to intercept. You better have a damn good reason for doing that. “Drunken lark” is not a good reason. Intercept pilots have zero sense of humor.
Archinist wrote:It is still very difficult to smash open a car window, especially in a panicky situation with your mental and physical strength diminished.
I could do it.
How will you force the pilot to land the helicopter? He could shoot you or toss you out of the aircraft or crash the helicopter intentionally. FYI let's say he's a stereotypical drunken Russian man with a thick beard.
Oh? Drunken Russian man with a thick beard?
Given it's a life or death situation, I display cleavage and offer him various promises of physical gratification if he lands the helicopter and follows me outside. Whereupon, once we are safely on the ground, I beat the fucking shit out of him.
Yeah, I'll play the woman card if I have to. Remember, I only look
Although I must object to the Russia stereotype, being half Russian myself.
Who said the Pave is taking off from a runway? It's not. It was delivered to someone's back yard in a isolated house worth dozens of millions in the middle of nowhere. The back yard is certified by (???) for safe take offs and landings, but there are sure no ATCs within range. Then they all met there, all the friends, synced their position with the guards's APCs and took off, heading for some equally isolated mountains with magical spirits in them.
Oddly enough, I would be able to determine, based on a map location, the extent of radar coverage and at what altitude it kicks in (pro-tip – 18,000 feet and above over North America there is radar coverage everywhere to facilitate commercial traffic. How low it goes otherwise varies on location.)
While it is possible to escape radar coverage it's not a trivial problem. Forgive me if I do not go into details on a public message board, I see no reason to make public information that would make it easier for the bad guys to do something in real life if they stumble across it.
I mean, I know how to hotwire an airplane, too, but I'm not discussing that on line, either.
But it's not an attack helicopter, designed primarily for actually directly engaging enemy targets. The guns are probably only their for defense, not to directly attack things.
If it has guns, those are used to attack things what fuck did you think they were used for, to shoot down missles or bullets?! there's no "you have to have this big guns to be restricted" all military hardware is restricted and if it has mounted weapons it's military hardware and thus resticted.
I've been in a lot of former military aircraft. NONE contain weapons. NONE. Zero. Zip. This will not happen. Weapons are stripped from any military aircraft being turned over the civilian hands.
The only weapons you'd get on something like that would be guns you carry on board yourself, and/or something illegal. Good luck with that. Unless you're discussing a very well-funded criminal operation (think Mexican drug lords) it's not going to happen.
Archinist wrote:`Wait, what? Why is there no flight plan? Okay, let's say there is one, which perfectly ties in with them flying up to the mountains and landing there. There are also flight plans for the helicopter to fly around the mountains and the MH-6 to buzz around and shoot things if required.
That's not how flightplans work. Flightplans are from point A to point B (sometimes with intermediate points along the way). There is no “flightplan to fly around the mountains”.
Let's be generous and assume this was a daytime VFR flight by civilians operating under FAR Part 91 and therefore no flight plan is required. We can drop that part of the scenario.
Archinist wrote:The guns are not used to aggressively attack something, nor would they be adequate for a attack aircraft. They are mainly there just to shoot at random groups of rag-tag people who might run at your chopper with knives and baseball bats when you're depositing troops or something like that.
NO military aircraft is handed over the civilians still containing weapons. IT DOES NOT HAPPEN. Period. Stop tying to make it happen. The stupid hurts.
Lord Revan wrote:Broom correct me if I'm wrong but don't Helos need pretty much constant attention from the pilot or very bad things (tm) happen?
Absolutely. Constant attention. They require more skill and attention than fixed wing aircraft. Also, autopilots in choppers of any sort are rare. Not even sure the military would let you keep a military-grade helicopter autopilot, they'll remove some types of avionics before handing them over to civilians.
The notion of even mildly
buzzed pilot successfully piloting a helicopter is pretty ridiculous. I'm not saying it's never been done, but it would be incredibly fucking stupid and dangerous. Drunk pilots are rare these days and getting rarer. Darwinian selection in action.