Modern Germany is replaced by WW2 Germany...

[Isolder74]

Modern computers are based on the Colossus that cracked the Nazi codes in an afternoon. A modern computer would have that taken care of in an matter of minutes. Modern encryption keys and data streams would have Nazi's confused beyond reason trying to even figure out that all this garbled noise is actually voice communications!

[Batman]

It would still take at least a week to realise something has happened

Try 5 minutes. The entire country just disappeared off the internet.

[Isolder74]

words

The rest of the world is also unaware of the changes, however, so Germany could literally just invade any country and that country will be wildly confused and for a very long time just assume that they are some strangely-equipped terrorists. So that means that Germany could quickly deploy hundreds of bombers to other European cities and blow them to oblivion and they won't even be aware that they're being attacked by an entire nation, and therefore won't have military response for quite some time. In a few days most European cities would have been bombed into dust, and no one could stop them, although once everyone wakes up the USA could probably take on Germany with assistance.

Listen Birdbrain, the moment the Nazi's invade ANY european country NATO will be activated meaning the USA is in and will be attacking those Nazi invaders. As others have already pointed out, they probably won't get to it as everyone in Europe but the Swiss will be charging in to deal with these unknown invaders. They'd probably not even have time to figure out who these armored attacks are being sent by before they are blasted apart.

Once the dust settles Hitler and the Nazi's are screwed.

[Lord Revan]

It would still take at least a week to realise something has happened

Try 5 minutes. The entire country just disappeared off the internet.

not mention depending what is meant by replace good chunk of western Poland, whole of Austria and Kalingrad region of russia cease to exist for all intents and purposes (as well for parts of Poland and Lithunia that came from East Prussia as pre-WW2 germany was signigantly larger then modern germany in terms of area) either that or those parts are missing from the Nazi Germany and the german is very confused and vary because of that (it took quite an effort from the Nazi regime to have the military leaders consent to the invasion of poland now imagine how hard the resistance would be if huge chunks of the lands essentially just disapeared).

[U.P. Cinnabar]

What happens now? Does Germany conquer the world and complete the holocaust? Or are they effortlessly annihilated? What of the American president?

No. They're pounded even flatter than they were in WWII, because their technology and their infrastructure are almost 80 years behind the rest of the world, and they have neither modern computer technology, the means to build such, nor the time to reverse engineer any they do happen across.

If Germany's civilians are the 21st century Germany's civilians, they'd probably get to Shickelgruber and his goons before the rest of the world does.

Auf widersehen. And, you notice I didn't say "pet."

[U.P. Cinnabar]

What happens to any present-day foreign military forces present in Germany? I think the British Army still has some units based there as part of NATO, and the US might as well. Are they still there? If so, good luck to the Nazi Panzer formations trying to knock out a battalion of Challenger-2s.

Or even LeClercs, if Dolfy is ass enough to push westward. Especially given the Nazis should only have Panzers I-III operable.

[Lord Revan]

What happens now? Does Germany conquer the world and complete the holocaust? Or are they effortlessly annihilated? What of the American president?

No. They're pounded even flatter than they were in WWII, because their technology and their infrastructure are almost 80 years behind the rest of the world, and they have neither modern computer technology, the means to build such, nor the time to reverse engineer any they do happen across.

If Germany's civilians are the 21st century Germany's civilians, they'd probably get to Shickelgruber and his goons before the rest of the world does.

Auf widersehen. And, you notice I didn't say "pet."

I dout we will be seeing them again anytime soon ("auf widersehen" translates as "see you later" or "see you soon") that said I can't say what the german equilevant of "farewell" (or in this case "go to hell") is, I only took few courses of german back in Lukio (more or less the equilevant of high school)

[U.P. Cinnabar]

words

The rest of the world is also unaware of the changes, however, so Germany could literally just invade any country and that country will be wildly confused and for a very long time just assume that they are some strangely-equipped terrorists. So that means that Germany could quickly deploy hundreds of bombers to other European cities and blow them to oblivion and they won't even be aware that they're being attacked by an entire nation, and therefore won't have military response for quite some time. In a few days most European cities would have been bombed into dust, and no one could stop them, although once everyone wakes up the USA could probably take on Germany with assistance.

Generals and politicians are not that stupid. They see Nazi war gear rolling over their borders from the direction of Deutschland, they're going to order their guys to shoot first, and then ask questions. And, when Berlin answers those questions with Nazi functionaries(who will act like good Nazis)or with silence, then, that's all she wrote.

See, letting armed, organized groups roll into your country, regardless of the weaponry is cretinous even for world leaders, generals, military officers, and your average grunt.

[The Vortex Empire]

The Nazi armies get shattered in days by wildly superior modern equipment, neighboring nations easily advance into Germany and capture Berlin two weeks later, we re-do the Nuremburg Trials, the end.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

Germany never developed a strategic bomber force, and they certainly didn't have that capability in the early years of the war. Between that and modern aircraft / anti-aircraft capabilities, the Luftwaffe will be blown out of the sky long before they are able to do any serious damage to a country's infrastructure.

Plus, something Dumber Than Parrots failed to take into account. Any aircraft flying in another country's airspace without a filed flight plan is going to be challenged and blown to Kingdom come, in short order. Swarms of aircraft(which this idiot envisions)flying in another country's airspace without a flight plan won't even be challenged.

Certainly not after 9/11.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

The Nazi armies get shattered in days by wildly superior modern equipment, neighboring nations easily advance into Germany and capture Berlin two weeks later, we re-do the Nuremburg Trials, the end.

Except we get Dolfy, Himmler, Fegelein, Dirlewanger, and the rest as well.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

How will the modern world tell the difference from the Luftwaffe and normal civilian planes?

I don't know too many Cessnas that look like these:



you dumb motherfucker.

[Batman]

Auf widersehen. And, you notice I didn't say "pet."

I dout we will be seeing them again anytime soon ("auf widersehen" translates as "see you later" or "see you soon") that said I can't say what the german equilevant of "farewell" (or in this case "go to hell") is, I only took few courses of german back in Lukio (more or less the equilevant of high school)[/quote]
'Go to hell' would be 'Fahr zur Hölle' and the german equivalent of 'Farewell' would be 'Lebwohl' (literally, 'live well'). It should be noted that 'Auf Wiedersehen' (a closer translation would be 'see you again', BTW) is routinely used in situations where you DON't expect to as a form of sarcasm.

[Batman]

Auf widersehen. And, you notice I didn't say "pet."

I dout we will be seeing them again anytime soon ("auf widersehen" translates as "see you later" or "see you soon") that said I can't say what the german equilevant of "farewell" (or in this case "go to hell") is, I only took few courses of german back in Lukio (more or less the equilevant of high school)

'Go to hell' would be 'Fahr zur Hölle' and the german equivalent of 'Farewell' would be 'Lebwohl' (literally, 'live well'). It should be noted that 'Auf Wiedersehen' (a closer translation would be 'see you again', BTW) is routinely used in situations where you DON'T expect to sarcastically.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

TVs existed in the 1940s as well, plus they had radio and modern communications like telephones as we do. The only thing they lacked is the noisy signal tower radios with flashing lights, but those aren't all that useful anyway.

Except their televisions will no longer work outside of Germany. Digital TV, remember?! They ain't got it. Their telephone system is outdated even by 1970s standards, let alone the late 2010s.

Noisy signal tower radios with flashing lights? You mean like the kind which broadcast analog(aka old-timey)radio and TV signals? They have those, they're just useless outside of Germany, because of the rest of the world going off analog and switching to digital.

Or, do you mean cell towers, which are quite useful to the rest of the world.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

Auf widersehen. And, you notice I didn't say "pet."

I dout we will be seeing them again anytime soon ("auf widersehen" translates as "see you later" or "see you soon") that said I can't say what the german equilevant of "farewell" (or in this case "go to hell") is, I only took few courses of german back in Lukio (more or less the equilevant of high school)

'Go to hell' would be 'Fahr zur Hölle' and the german equivalent of 'Farewell' would be 'Lebwohl' (literally, 'live well'). It should be noted that 'Auf Wiedersehen' (a closer translation would be 'see you again', BTW) is routinely used in situations where you DON'T expect to sarcastically.

And, "Auf Wiedersehen, Pet" is the title of an old British sitcom.

[Tribble]

Ugh, ok I'm hijacking this thread and making it at least slightly more interesting than "ww2 Nazis invade modern Europe, get curbstomped".

Scenario 1.1

Nazi Germany's leaders, being at least as smart as parrots, decide that the best course of action is to halt all planned offences, assess the situation, and try to re-open diplomatic ties (at the very least to gather as much info as possible, if not negotiate some kind of peace terms). Knowing that they cannot win against what is obviously superior firepower, the German leadership gives orders to only act in self-defence and not to engage any forces unless attacked first. How would the rest of the world respond? Would they invade Germany, or would try to put enough pressure on it to make it come to terms?

Scenario 2.0: Modern Germany is swapped out by Nazi Germany, but this time they are given equivalent amounts of modern equipment to what they had just prior to the Barbarossa campaign (proportionally a lot more than what the German army has today). They also have modern technological skills / expertise, so that their economy doesn't fall apart due to lack of maintenance. Would a Modern Nazi Germany still try to wage war, or would they realise that doing so is futile given the prevalence of nuclear weapons? Would they perhaps try to grab a few non-nuclear countries before nuclear countries stepped in? How would the rest of the world respond?

Isolder74 wrote:
Germany never developed a strategic bomber force, and they certainly didn't have that capability in the early years of the war. Between that and modern aircraft / anti-aircraft capabilities, the Luftwaffe will be blown out of the sky long before they are able to do any serious damage to a country's infrastructure.

Plus, something Dumber Than Parrots failed to take into account. Any aircraft flying in another country's airspace without a filed flight plan is going to be challenged and blown to Kingdom come, in short order. Swarms of aircraft(which this idiot envisions)flying in another country's airspace without a flight plan won't even be challenged.

Certainly not after 9/11.

Btw, I'm the one who wrote that

[U.P. Cinnabar]

Whoops, Tribble. Long day, sorry.

But to answer the questions you posed in your two more realistic scenarios, I would think the response by the rest of the world, at least by Russia and NATO, and Eastern Europe would be a pre-emptive strike against Germany.

For the same reasons his former opponents didn't wait around for Napoleon to have enough time to re-establish himself as a credible threat, the West, Russia, et al, are not going to give Hitler's Germany time to become a credible threat to world peace again.

Unlike Saddam, the Nazi regime's crimes are a matter of documented historical fact, leaving no room for doubt(except maybe in the thick skulls of Nazi apologists) as to what they've done, and what they most certainly will do if given time to catch up, or, worse, if they already have modern technology and know how to use it from the get-go.

Speaking of Nazi apologists, Holocaust deniers, and similar lower forms of life, if Hitler's Germany does have modern technology, and the know-how necessary to utilize it, they will turn those sympathetic to their cause in other countries into fifth columns working against their societies. Or, at least, they will give it one damn good try.

And, the world's leaders will be aware of that, and will take that into account when deciding on how to deal with a resurgent Hitler.

[Isolder74]

What happens to any present-day foreign military forces present in Germany? I think the British Army still has some units based there as part of NATO, and the US might as well. Are they still there? If so, good luck to the Nazi Panzer formations trying to knock out a battalion of Challenger-2s.

Or even LeClercs, if Dolfy is ass enough to push westward. Especially given the Nazis should only have Panzers I-III operable.

Well Rommel does have 2 divisions of Panzer IV's and I think the other 2 main spearheads had at least one each. Most of the Panzer divisions in the Battle of France were Panzer i's and Panzer II's with Panzer's III's being the main heavy lifters of those armored units.

Of course the attack might get cancelled when the glider troops report that the Belgium Fort is a pile of rubble already due to confusion at best or escalated because they think things are going to go better then already planned at worst.

[NecronLord]

Ugh, ok I'm hijacking this thread and making it at least slightly more interesting than "ww2 Nazis invade modern Europe, get curbstomped".

Scenario 1.1

Nazi Germany's leaders, being at least as smart as parrots, decide that the best course of action is to halt all planned offences, assess the situation, and try to re-open diplomatic ties (at the very least to gather as much info as possible, if not negotiate some kind of peace terms). Knowing that they cannot win against what is obviously superior firepower, the German leadership gives orders to only act in self-defence and not to engage any forces unless attacked first. How would the rest of the world respond? Would they invade Germany, or would try to put enough pressure on it to make it come to terms?

Scenario 2.0: Modern Germany is swapped out by Nazi Germany, but this time they are given equivalent amounts of modern equipment to what they had just prior to the Barbarossa campaign (proportionally a lot more than what the German army has today). They also have modern technological skills / expertise, so that their economy doesn't fall apart due to lack of maintenance. Would a Modern Nazi Germany still try to wage war, or would they realise that doing so is futile given the prevalence of nuclear weapons? Would they perhaps try to grab a few non-nuclear countries before nuclear countries stepped in? How would the rest of the world respond?

In Scenario 1 either Russia or Israel (or both) will mount immediate airborne offensives to seize the concentration camps and ghettos and to capture Nazi leaders. Both nations have combat aircraft that can engage with absolute impunity from above the Nazi flight ceiling and attack both aircraft and ground vehicles. They can intercept and destroy radio transmitters and telegraph lines, and generally break down communications at will. Can you imagine being the Russian leader who got to drag Hitler and Himmler through Red Square in chains? Remember, they're not prepared to kill themselves at this point and your guys can move faster than they will get news they have neither radar nor a means to engage your aircraft on their terms. Your information gathering equipment is vastly superior to theirs.

In Scenario 2 the United Nations (military alliance) of WW2 gets the band back together immediately and starts issuing serious demands. Might smooth relations with China and Russia for the duration, too.

[NecronLord]

What happens to any present-day foreign military forces present in Germany? I think the British Army still has some units based there as part of NATO, and the US might as well. Are they still there? If so, good luck to the Nazi Panzer formations trying to knock out a battalion of Challenger-2s.

Or even LeClercs, if Dolfy is ass enough to push westward. Especially given the Nazis should only have Panzers I-III operable.

Well Rommel does have 2 divisions of Panzer IV's

He did. Now he doesn't, because his enemies can hit his fuel and ammunition depots from above the flight ceiling of his aircraft and there's no conceivable response. They're fighting on foot after the first few days at best.

[Elheru Aran]

Yeah... I agree with whomever it was, the Israelis are *not* going to take the Nazis returning very well at ALL. Once the initial confusion and 'what just fucking happened' is over within ~3-4 hours (which is probably about as long as it'll take for the world to notice that Germany just dropped off the Internet map, local news services from neighboring countries running up to the border to talk to the new guards in funny uniforms, freaking *airliners* passing over the country noticing that suddenly there's a whole bunch of vintage aircraft with swastikas in the air...), I would expect that within a few days there would be some high-speed bomber aircraft headed in that general direction and a demand to surrender a laundry list of politicians and generals immediately.

The military disparity is simply ridiculous. There's a certain value in surprise-- that always has *some* effect-- but the value will be far less than it ever was in WWII. A few French, Italian, British and Russian soldiers might die in the opening salvos of the fight... but the curbstomping would be absolutely ludicrous.

[Batman]

I don't know about 'ludicrous' given in the past some people have posted 'Legends Wars vs the real world' scenarios but yeah, that's one pretty damned one-sided scenario.
Oh wait, those were ludicrously one-sided too. Nevermind.

[NecronLord]

Honestly, we saw in actual World War Two a power capitulate after a couple of nuclear weapons being deployed. I wonder if Putin wouldn't fire off a few just for the sake of getting a bloodless victory. And adding for the benefit of the German military that he wants the Fuhrer alive.

[Solauren]

This gets down to how fast everyone realizes that Nazi Germany is back, and how quickly they decide to teach them lessons.

My earlier diplomatic thoughts aside, how long until a Israel opens fire with a nuke on Germany?