SDN Discussion: Population & Social Issues in Harry Potter

[Elheru Aran]

As far as using spells in an offensive manner: you might not be able to Avada Kedavra a wall, but if you knew your opponent was hiding behind the wall, could you attempt to cast AK *through* the wall? Or, more likely, would it be better to use one of the likely variety of higher end destructive spells that are probably available in the HP verse against the wall and hope the shrapnel takes them out?

I'm not sure Voldemort ever really cared enough to dominate the entire world. Wizarding Britain certainly, but mostly his interest was in immortality, and he thought he could achieve that with the Hallows. Repressing the Muggle-borns and by extent the Muggles, and dominating Wizarding Britain's magical society, were largely a sideshow. Being the top dog, less so; he couldn't tolerate threats to his position, and while Harry wasn't a threat by virtue of sheer magical power or ability, he was a threat due to the prophecy. So becoming the de facto strongest wizard in Britain was a priority. Past that... as noted, he didn't want to be Grindelwalded.

[Khaat]

As far as using spells in an offensive manner: you might not be able to Avada Kedavra a wall, but if you knew your opponent was hiding behind the wall, could you attempt to cast AK *through* the wall? Or, more likely, would it be better to use one of the likely variety of higher end destructive spells that are probably available in the HP verse against the wall and hope the shrapnel takes them out?

I'm fairly sure you still have to hit your target with the AK. If they were behind a wall, certainly, a bombada spell would at least be enough to throw them for a spin (and take out their cover), allowing you to set up an AK.

I'm not sure Voldemort ever really cared enough to dominate the entire world. Wizarding Britain certainly, but mostly his interest was in immortality, and he thought he could achieve that with the Hallows. Repressing the Muggle-borns and by extent the Muggles, and dominating Wizarding Britain's magical society, were largely a sideshow. Being the top dog, less so; he couldn't tolerate threats to his position, and while Harry wasn't a threat by virtue of sheer magical power or ability, he was a threat due to the prophecy. So becoming the de facto strongest wizard in Britain was a priority. Past that... as noted, he didn't want to be Grindelwalded.

Tom Riddle did draw Death Eaters from all over. Karkarov was from outside Britain, f'rinstance. If Rowling hadn't short-shrifted Deathly Hallows, we would have seen more in Riddle's long game. I think he was prepared to do one better than Grindlewald, by establishing a "lawful evil" wizarding Britain first, then export it to the rest of the world through his agents (dementors, werewolves, giants, etc.) Instill fear in the plebes first, topple regimes (from within), then show them you alone have the iron fist needed to secure peace through force. Or build a wall and make them pay for it, or something.

Riddle would have learned from Grindlewald's mistakes: he probably wouldn't have moved against the rest of the wizarding world until after unifying Britain, and securing his claim to the Elder Wand. I don't imagine he expended any effort looking for the Stone or the Cloak, he had no business with the dead, and plenty of sneaks among his followers.

[The Romulan Republic]

Hmm, Dolohov was a Death Eater with a name that, like Karkarov, sounds Russian or similar. And Karkarov was able to weasel his way out of responsibility not only in Britain but in wherever Durmstrang is (northern Europe, apparently), despite being an admitted Death Eater.

That suggests that at least part of northern/eastern Europe has some serious problems with Death Eater sympathies.

[Eternal_Freedom]

I think what disturbs me most about Azkaban (and this is just one of many things about the wizarding world that disturb me) is the fact that in the books, plenty of people say how terrible a place it is, they wouldn't wish it on anyone etc.

But no-one argues it shouldn't be used. We get "it shouldn't be used for this" or "you should never have gone their without a trial" but not a single damn character says, outright, "this place is wrong, it should not exist." Even Hermione, possibly the most ethical of the characters we see, doesn't protest against it's existence, and she tries to start a mass social movement to end house elf servitude based solely on the principle.

As for other things, from book-canon at least, the fact that some of theproducts Fred and George sell in their shop are love potions. As in, date-rape drugs that don't create love, but a very strong infatuation. And they sell them. In a joke shop. To schoolchildren. And they are some of the good guys.

Also: giving a 13 year old girl a fucking time machine so she can attend extra classes. What. The. Hell.

[The Romulan Republic]

I think what disturbs me most about Azkaban (and this is just one of many things about the wizarding world that disturb me) is the fact that in the books, plenty of people say how terrible a place it is, they wouldn't wish it on anyone etc.

But no-one argues it shouldn't be used. We get "it shouldn't be used for this" or "you should never have gone their without a trial" but not a single damn character says, outright, "this place is wrong, it should not exist." Even Hermione, possibly the most ethical of the characters we see, doesn't protest against it's existence, and she tries to start a mass social movement to end house elf servitude based solely on the principle.

Actually, Dumbledore does flat-out tell Fudge that he should pull the Dementors out of Azkaban in book four, albeit for strategic rather than moral reasons (i.e. that they would betray the Ministry to Voldemort, which they ultimately did).

Supposedly the use of Dementors in Azkaban was shut down by the Shacklebolt Ministry post-Battle of Hogwarts.

As for other things, from book-canon at least, the fact that some of theproducts Fred and George sell in their shop are love potions. As in, date-rape drugs that don't create love, but a very strong infatuation. And they sell them. In a joke shop. To schoolchildren. And they are some of the good guys.

The love potion thing is all kinds of fucked up, yes. No substance that so influences ones' emotions, and potentially ones' judgement, should be purchasable by minors. And its use at all, by anyone, is dubious at best, given the ease with which it can facilitate rape (one can hardly consent if under mental influence, after all).

Also: giving a 13 year old girl a fucking time machine so she can attend extra classes. What. The. Hell.

I could almost, sort of justify it if we just had PoA to go on for time travel, as it appears to indicate a closed loop- history is unaltered by time travel.

With Cursed Child showing that it is indeed possible to alter history on a massive scale... yeah. The Ministry, and indeed the whole world, got so fucking lucky. If indeed history wasn't changed. We wouldn't necessarily know, would we?

I can only possibly explain it as someone with an agenda pulling strings. Three possibilities come to mind:

1. Dumbledore somehow foresaw that it might be useful for Hermione to have it, and pulled strings.

2. Someone went back in time and said something along the lines of "A catastrophe will happen in the future if you don't give Hermione a time turner".

3. Some nut in the Department of Mysteries was trying to start an apocalypse or something.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Even within PoA there is some indication that it may not be a stable time loop. The insistence by Dumbledore and later Hermione that "you must not be seen" indicates changing the past is indeed possible. Hermione explains this to Harry when he wants to go grab Pettigrew, asking him what he would think if he saw another him burst in; he'd think it was some Dark magic and attack or something. She says "terrible things happen to wizards who mess with time."

If it truly were a stable time loop her reason would be "because you don't remember seeing it happen."