The Killing Joke (movie spoilers)

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Re: The Killing Joke (movie spoilers)

Post by Batman »

Because nobody pays for an episode-length movie or DVD?
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Re: The Killing Joke (movie spoilers)

Post by Gandalf »

Odd. I would think that the name alone should be enough to move units.

Anecdotally, a few days ago I was ready to pay $25 to buy this, sight unseen. Owing to trouble with the iTunes store I wound up watching a friend's copy, and... ugh.
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Re: The Killing Joke (movie spoilers)

Post by FaxModem1 »

Napoleon the Clown wrote:
FaxModem1 wrote:While he does say this to Batman, the flashbacks seem to make it that this is Joker's true past, unless somehow Joker is lying to the audience.
It's been implied that not even the Joker is sure of his own past. He could sincerely believe that the origin recounted in The Killing Joke is the real deal one day, and then the next think that it's just something he made up to try and get sympathy. Or both views at the same time. He has a very, very warped view of the world and the nature of reality while still being able to plan things out and manipulate the hell out of people.
That may work for the comic, where we have hundreds, if not thousands of issues of material to draw from. But this is a movie, in which we only have the movie to stand on. This isn't like Mask of the Phantasm or Dark Knight Rises, in which we have build up of these characters, aside from a few basics. He's not the gangster played by Jack Nicholson, or the anarchist terrorist going postal in The Dark Knight, nor even the old catatonic monster from Dark Knight Returns. For this movie, this is all we have. And in this movie, he's a poor widower who snapped because life conspired against him. Heck, you could say his rant about his having a multiple choice past is as relevant to his character as Joker's fear of World War III, it's just as heavily focused in the film.

This is why Gordon's torture falls a bit flat. We don't know this Gordon, aside from 'man who glues clippings to his scrapbook', and may have killed Laura Palmer :wink: . Before Gordon is kidnapped, Barbara's friend at the library had more characterization than him. This is why the 'Day in the Life of Batgirl' story should have had more focus on her relationship with her father.

Honestly, if you cut out the first 30 minutes(Batgirl movie), and replaced it with the story of Shadow of the Bat two parter of BTAS, if you matched the animation style, it would have tied with The Killing Joke a lot better. Or, since I enjoyed the Batgirl stuff, have it be meshed with a longer Batgirl story, focusing on her career as Batgirl and a crime fighter. Or, even better, keep the movie as is, with being absolutely true to the comic, but show more of the consequences of that horrible day for Barbara, Gordon, and Batman. A five to ten minute coda of them recovering would have worked wonders.

The film doesn't delve deep enough, is what I'm saying. With the way things are tied together, the film could also be suggesting that the reason Batman is willing to try and talk Joker down for most of the movie is that he got laid for the first time in years, and wants to try talking instead of hitting people.
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Re: The Killing Joke (movie spoilers)

Post by Majin Gojira »

LadyTevar wrote:This does lead to the scene that has critics and some fans outraged, but fans of "Batman Beyond" know they weren't just partners. Folks are just up in arms that it's so blatant.
That's not quite what I understood of the complaints railed against it. The way I've seen it phrased is that it took the biggest flaw of the original story -- that of reducing Barbara Gordon to a prop to facilitate the pain and anguish of the men in her life -- and doubled down on it.

It's not that they had Bruce and Babs in a relationship (as creepy as that has pretty much always been), it's that it doesn't really help her stand out on her own or have an arc in relation to the overall plot beyond being the distressed damsel.

But that's what I take from the complaints.
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Re: The Killing Joke (movie spoilers)

Post by Q99 »

Majin Gojira wrote: That's not quite what I understood of the complaints railed against it. The way I've seen it phrased is that it took the biggest flaw of the original story -- that of reducing Barbara Gordon to a prop to facilitate the pain and anguish of the men in her life -- and doubled down on it.

It's not that they had Bruce and Babs in a relationship (as creepy as that has pretty much always been), it's that it doesn't really help her stand out on her own or have an arc in relation to the overall plot beyond being the distressed damsel.

But that's what I take from the complaints.

Yes. It's emphasizing the bad, and using it to pad out the runtime.

Showing the Bruce/Babs relationship the Timm shows mentioned and it turning out to be Bruce acting worse in it than assumed is just a vehicle for that/cherry on top.

In short it felt like the creators didn't get what was viewed as the weak points of the original story.
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