The JLW- Justice League of Westeros (crossover scenario).

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The JLW- Justice League of Westeros (crossover scenario).

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Another little vs. scenario I thought up in my spare time.

Seeing the wretched state of the world of Game of Thrones, a passing demigod takes pity on its people and transports five legendary heroes from another dimension to aid it in its coming battles. This takes place immediately before the first episode of the TV series "Game of Thrones" (since I'm more familiar with it than the books), and immediately after the conclusion of Batman v Superman.

Lois Lane is teleported to just outside the gates of Winterfell. She is unarmed.

Batman and Alfred are deposited in the slums of King's Landing. Alfred is unarmed. Batman has his standard Batsuite complete with grappler, some batarangs, and a number of small explosives, as well as any other gear he would normally carry.

Wonder Woman appears in the middle of Dothraki territory. She has her shield, sword, bracelets, and lasso.

Superman arrives north of the Wall. He is unarmed, not that it really matters in his case. :wink:

Can the Justice League unite in time to save this new world? Will they be victorious? Can they make much of a difference in a setting who's problems are arguably largely social/political without going the Justice Lords route and becoming tyrants?
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Re: The JLW- Justice League of Westeros (crossover scenario).

Post by Batman »

I don't think Lois and Alfred really qualify as 'legendary heroes'.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
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Re: The JLW- Justice League of Westeros (crossover scenario).

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Batman wrote:I don't think Lois and Alfred really qualify as 'legendary heroes'.
Well, I added them because:

a) Batman without Alfred just seems wrong.

b) I wanted to pad out the roster a bit, and the DCCU is still new and not very developed, with the other JLA members hinted at in the films (Cyborg, Aquaman, and Flash as I recall) are almost complete unknowns as far as this continuity is concerned.

Also, they likely couldn't have Spoiler
beaten Doomsday without Lois's help, as she was the one who found the Kryptonite spear and pulled it and Superman out of the water.
While she's not much of a fighter, she is a competent, experienced investigator, and I think that in this continuity, at least, that act ought to earn her a place in the ranks of "legendary" heroes, since it probably saved the Earth as much as anything anyone else did in that fight. You are, of course, free to disagree.
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Re: The JLW- Justice League of Westeros (crossover scenario).

Post by SCRawl »

Isn't Superman mostly dead at the conclusion of Batman v Superman?

And why the spoiler tags? It's been several months now; if you haven't seen the movie, it's likely because you don't want to see it.
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Re: The JLW- Justice League of Westeros (crossover scenario).

Post by Solauren »

if the White Walkers turn Superman, the entire planet (and beyond) is probably screwed.

If he's on a hilltop with a lot of sunlight, he'll heal up in little while, and if he finds out about the White Walker threat, well, White Walker threat is over and done with.

Come on, this is a version of Superman that uses his heat vision consistently in fights, and has some concept of tactics. (I said SOME,not alot).

Superman will annihilate the White Walkers.
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Re: The JLW- Justice League of Westeros (crossover scenario).

Post by The Romulan Republic »

SCRawl wrote:Isn't Superman mostly dead at the conclusion of Batman v Superman?
Yes, although it is heavily hinted (as if one couldn't have guessed it) that he will be coming back.

Like Solauren said, I expect sufficient exposure to Sun light would restore him in time.
And why the spoiler tags? It's been several months now; if you haven't seen the movie, it's likely because you don't want to see it.
Well, I was getting into some pretty specific details about the conclusion there, so I guess I felt better safe than sorry.

As to the White Walkers... yeah, if they turn Superman the world is fucked, unless WW or the Bat can take him down. Although their is the fact that at least some iterations of Superman are vulnerable to magic. I think to keep Superman's presence from being too much of a game breaker, as it were, we should probably assume that that is in effect for the purposes of this thread, though I don't think its yet been confirmed in the DCCU (unless the effectiveness of WW's weapons against Doomsday, who originated on Krypton from a Kryptonian, is indicative).
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Re: The JLW- Justice League of Westeros (crossover scenario).

Post by Solauren »

Even with a magic vulnerability, Superman is still going to dictate how this goes.

Why? We haven't seen any offensive magic from the White Walkers in GOT/SOIAF yet.

Yeah, the White Walkers are obviously magic. As are their reanimated corpse soldiers. But that's it. They can make dead people stand back up and work for them, and can turn babies via touch.

Superman can just stay at range and vaporize the entire White Walker army.

We've seen offensive magic from the Children of the Forest, but I doubt they'll be wiping fireballs at the guy dealing with the White Walker problem....

.

Now, for the others:

Lois Lane at Winterfell: Assuming they believe her story, I can see the Starks taking her in, and Catelyn refusing to let her near Sansa and Arya. "Bad influence" and all that. However, if she ends up helping with the Stark kids, Bran might not climb the tower and get tossed off.

Unless she goes to King's Landing with Ned Stark, and takes up the investigation for him, I can't see her making a lick of difference in the overall timeline.

Wonder Woman with the Dothraki: Bit of a Wild Card here. IF she ends up working with the Dothraki, when Danny comes to Westros, she's got a nice bit of punch added to her armies. Not that she needs it... If she doesn't, then in the end, unless she kills Danny or the dragons, I can't see much of a difference.

Batman + Alfred in King's Landing:
Oh god, this is funny.
First, Alfred is an old man in a city full of filth and disease, and will likely get sick very quickly.

So, w'ere left with a 40+ year old man, dressing up as a Bat, in a middle ages kingdom, without resources or knowledge of the city. He's going to run out of gadet's pretty quickly, and need to actually work. He has no marketable skills besides beating people up.

I would not be surprised if Vaerys figures out who he is, and sends a bunch of gold cloaks to deal with this obvious mad-man.

Batman is not going to make a lick of difference to Westros beyond beating people up in King's Landing.

Realistically, for Batman to make any difference, he's got to take over Littlefinger's business empire to he has money and access to information. (Mind you, do that, and convert his tech to middle ages level stuff, and we've got something to work with. Not much, but still, enough he could be a point of concern in King's Landing).
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Re: The JLW- Justice League of Westeros (crossover scenario).

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Solauren wrote:Even with a magic vulnerability, Superman is still going to dictate how this goes.

Why? We haven't seen any offensive magic from the White Walkers in GOT/SOIAF yet.

Yeah, the White Walkers are obviously magic. As are their reanimated corpse soldiers. But that's it. They can make dead people stand back up and work for them, and can turn babies via touch.

Superman can just stay at range and vaporize the entire White Walker army.

We've seen offensive magic from the Children of the Forest, but I doubt they'll be wiping fireballs at the guy dealing with the White Walker problem....
What about Melisandra?
Now, for the others:

Lois Lane at Winterfell: Assuming they believe her story, I can see the Starks taking her in, and Catelyn refusing to let her near Sansa and Arya. "Bad influence" and all that. However, if she ends up helping with the Stark kids, Bran might not climb the tower and get tossed off.

Unless she goes to King's Landing with Ned Stark, and takes up the investigation for him, I can't see her making a lick of difference in the overall timeline.
That sounds about right.

Probably better for her if she doesn't get too involved in the investigation, at least until she reconnects with the others. She's competent, but she has a bit of a tendency to get in over her head (see her first scene in Batman v Superman), and she's in an unfamiliar world that isn't particularly female-friendly to boot.
Wonder Woman with the Dothraki: Bit of a Wild Card here. IF she ends up working with the Dothraki, when Danny comes to Westros, she's got a nice bit of punch added to her armies. Not that she needs it... If she doesn't, then in the end, unless she kills Danny or the dragons, I can't see much of a difference.
I wonder if she might just largely sit things out. She seemed to be pretty much retired in Batman v Superman, and it took an apocalyptic threat (Doomsday) to get her back in action.

On the other hand, I dare say she'll have the easiest time fitting into a pre-industrial society, given her origins.
Batman + Alfred in King's Landing:
Oh god, this is funny.
First, Alfred is an old man in a city full of filth and disease, and will likely get sick very quickly.
I suppose that's a valid concern, although Batman and Alfred will at least have knowledge of modern hygiene that I doubt the locals possess.
So, w'ere left with a 40+ year old man, dressing up as a Bat, in a middle ages kingdom, without resources or knowledge of the city. He's going to run out of gadet's pretty quickly, and need to actually work. He has no marketable skills besides beating people up.
Well, ability to beat people up is always in high demand. :wink: Although while Affleck Batman is willing to kill, I very much doubt that he would do so for money, which severely limits his utility as hired muscle.

However, recall that Batman has no real compunctions about breaking the law to further his crusade against crime, ironically enough. I wouldn't put it past him to simply rob for a living for a while if he had to. Particularly the Affleck Batman, who's ruthless streak goes beyond that of a number of other incarnations and who acknowledges to Alfred that they're criminals in the film.
I would not be surprised if Vaerys figures out who he is, and sends a bunch of gold cloaks to deal with this obvious mad-man.
I know Vaerys is supposed to be good at his job, but this is Batman we're talking about. He's not exactly new at covering his tracks. And for that matter, since he has no Bruce Wayne public persona to maintain here, I wonder if he might just take on the mantel of the Bat full time, relying on a trusted proxy like Alfred to handle any public business he might have.

Also, up until Batman starts interfering in politics, why would Vaerys care? I may be wrong, but I'd think some guy beating up crooks in back alleys isn't really his top concern. If anything, it might be seen as beneficial by some authorities, if it keeps the criminal element in line.

I mean, if Batman starts unmasking the Lannisters' plots or something, sure. Then he's a political problem. But up until that point, is the Bat likely to be a big concern for Vaerys?
Batman is not going to make a lick of difference to Westros beyond beating people up in King's Landing.
Depends on a lot of factors, I think. But yes, this scenario, in which he is benefit of his Wayne assets and most of his tech., doesn't really play to his strengths.
Realistically, for Batman to make any difference, he's got to take over Littlefinger's business empire to he has money and access to information. (Mind you, do that, and convert his tech to middle ages level stuff, and we've got something to work with. Not much, but still, enough he could be a point of concern in King's Landing).
What are Littlefinger's assets? I know he deals in prostitution, but I have a hard time seeing Batman running brothels.

From the Xanatos in Game of Thrones thread, I gather that the best place for a businessman of no noble family to set up is probably Braavos. I could see the Bat relocating (or sending an emissary, Alfred or otherwise, to act on his behalf), using crime to acquire the beginnings of a fortune, and then trying to rebuild the Wayne business empire to fund his activities.

But really, I think the Bat's first priority is going to be to try to figure out how he got to another reality and weather he can get home. His loyalty is to Gotham, that's where his mission is. He'll probably step in to save innocents if he happens to encounter a threat, but I expect he'll spend a lot of time acquiring resources and then using them to research magic to see if he can figure out how the hell he got to Westeros and how to go back to his reality. Even if it turns out to be a dead end.
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Re: The JLW- Justice League of Westeros (crossover scenario).

Post by Solauren »

We haven't seen any offensive magic from the priests of the Lord of Light, yet. (Wouldn't surprise me).

Besides, Melissandre would see Superman flying around, big red cape 'like fire', and fire coming out of his eyes, destroying the enemies of her god...

She'd be wondering if he WAS the Lord of Light.
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Re: The JLW- Justice League of Westeros (crossover scenario).

Post by Simon_Jester »

Offensive magic? Do Melisandre's shadow-babies qualify? They can stab through plate armor, walk through walls, and they kill people. That sounds pretty 'offensive' to me.
The Romulan Republic wrote:That sounds about right.

Probably better for her if she doesn't get too involved in the investigation, at least until she reconnects with the others. She's competent, but she has a bit of a tendency to get in over her head (see her first scene in Batman v Superman), and she's in an unfamiliar world that isn't particularly female-friendly to boot.
Actually, the investigation aspect of this is... fairly safe, at first. Remember, Ned Stark put it together from knowing how Robert's bastards look (which is something anyone can find out without any particular risk), knowing how Cersei's children look (public knowledge), and reading a book about the appearance and heredity of crossovers between the royal houses (which nearly anyone can do).

Now the catch is, Lois hasn't seen half a dozen or however many of Robert's bastards, and wouldn't know what books to look up. But if Ned told her to look into this and she actually did think of it as her 'assignment,' so to speak, I think she'd figure it out a hell of a lot faster than Ned would. Meanwhile, I'm fairly sure Cersei herself doesn't really understand the exact nature of the threat, she just knows to lash out at political figures who are her enemies. So it's entirely possible that by separating her political target (Ned) and the investigation (Lois), things might get resolved quickly enough that the evidence can be presented to Robert before he dies.
I wonder if she might just largely sit things out. She seemed to be pretty much retired in Batman v Superman, and it took an apocalyptic threat (Doomsday) to get her back in action.

On the other hand, I dare say she'll have the easiest time fitting into a pre-industrial society, given her origins.
True. She might be motivated to come out of retirement if she perceives something worth fighting for, but I'm not sure she'd run into anything along those lines except, of course, the possibility of becoming an anti-slavery crusader. How much she'd be into that, I don't know.
Batman + Alfred in King's Landing:
Oh god, this is funny.
First, Alfred is an old man in a city full of filth and disease, and will likely get sick very quickly.
I suppose that's a valid concern, although Batman and Alfred will at least have knowledge of modern hygiene that I doubt the locals possess.
While Alfred is old, he's not decrepit. I'd bet on him to last a few years even in a place like King's Landing.
So, w'ere left with a 40+ year old man, dressing up as a Bat, in a middle ages kingdom, without resources or knowledge of the city. He's going to run out of gadet's pretty quickly, and need to actually work. He has no marketable skills besides beating people up.
Well, ability to beat people up is always in high demand. :wink: Although while Affleck Batman is willing to kill, I very much doubt that he would do so for money, which severely limits his utility as hired muscle.

However, recall that Batman has no real compunctions about breaking the law to further his crusade against crime, ironically enough. I wouldn't put it past him to simply rob for a living for a while if he had to. Particularly the Affleck Batman, who's ruthless streak goes beyond that of a number of other incarnations and who acknowledges to Alfred that they're criminals in the film.
Part of the problem here is that whereas Superman or Wonder Woman have "powers" that are entirely abilities of their body, or specific objects they carry on their person. One of Batman's key "powers" is his great wealth, which gives him the resources to do the things he does despite being a mere mortal. By taking away his resources, you depower him, in a way just as profound as you'd be depowering Superman by taking away his ability to fly, or Wonder Woman by taking away her magic lasso.

I'd say that to make this interesting you'd want to drop Batman in with significant seed money.
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Re: The JLW- Justice League of Westeros (crossover scenario).

Post by Crown »

With the exception of mind control I can't recall magic against Superman being an 'I Win' button; Shazam's/Black Adam's lightning is magic. It certainly hurts the Man of Steel, but it doesn't actually insta-gimp him.

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Re: The JLW- Justice League of Westeros (crossover scenario).

Post by Simon_Jester »

Yeah; it really depends on what magic, and how powerful, and what it does.

Magical fire that burns Superman won't necessarily stop him, and the fact that the fire is magical doesn't necessarily negate his toughness.

If he's stabbed in the chest with a magic blade, meanwhile... the result probably depends heavily on just how magical the blade is.
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Re: The JLW- Justice League of Westeros (crossover scenario).

Post by Solauren »

I'm not sure the Shadow-baby was a spell so much as a summoned creature. It's more utility with offensive capabilities.

However, like I said. Flying man with fire from his eyes smiting White Walkers. She probably would think he's the Lord of Light.


...

Now back to King's Landing and Bruce/Alfred.

King's Landing, as a typical middle ages city, is a shit hole. Literally. We also don't see alot of evidence of soap or other stuff. That means lots of diseases, on surfaces, in the food, in the air, etc.

Bruce and Alfred have never been exposed to any of them, and there are lots of diseases you get as a child on Earth that are dangerous as you get older (Chicken Pox and the Measels come to mind). They'd have to be very careful to avoid catching anything.

Now, if you turn to Bruce's gear....

It's going to wear down, or run out of power. Yeah, the standard suit from BvS can stop gunfire and knives, but for how long? How much damage can it take before it's actually hindering him from lack of protection, lack of mobility due to lack of replacement parts/repairs?

Also, Bruce's fighting style in BvS seems to be a mix of evasion, and taking the hits. A 40+, without his armor, he's going to have problems acting the part of hired muscle. He could still do it, but still, compared to a 20 year old, he's not going to be as effective.

Also, no Batmobile limits Bruce's mobility down to how fast he can move about.

Next, as for Varys finding him....

King's landing is overrun with Orphans, and those are Varys little birds. If he wants to find someone, he's going to find them. The kids watch, and people ignore them. Bruce probably won't even think to pay attention to the orphans, and probably won't notice them.

Now, I admit, unless Bruce starts causing problems that could affect Varys plans (i.e the Targerean restoration), he's probably a none issue.

But without support, Bruce is about as dangerous to the overall story as your average street thug. Unless he's connected to a main character, he's not important.
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Re: The JLW- Justice League of Westeros (crossover scenario).

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Admittedly, Varys using orphans is potentially particularly problematic for Bruce. Correct me if I'm wrong, but at least some iterations of Batman show a soft spot towards children, and particularly orphans? Understandable given his own history, but it might make him just a little more careless, a little more open and a little less wary, than he otherwise would be.
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Re: The JLW- Justice League of Westeros (crossover scenario).

Post by GuppyShark »

I find Diana's scenario to be an interesting one. She's probably going to have to fight her way out of Dothraki territory, which may require a showdown with Khal Drogo.

I like to imagine Wonder Woman creating an amazon tribe of liberated slaves and warrior women, and she would probably join Daenary's cause as an ally, although I can't imagine her tolerating the dothraki.
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Re: The JLW- Justice League of Westeros (crossover scenario).

Post by Solauren »

That would really depend WHEN and IF she encountered the Dothraki.

If he avoided them until she heard about Danny and the Dragons, no problem.

However, if she encountered them prior to that, and decided she didn't like them, yeah, Khal Drogo is going to have problems.
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Re: The JLW- Justice League of Westeros (crossover scenario).

Post by The Romulan Republic »

WW is almost as much a game changer as Superman power-wise, and arguably more so socially, at least if she chooses to play an active role.

Batman v Superman's Wonder Woman does not have the power range of Superman (no flight, no laser vision, etc.) and relies more on equipment to make up for certain shortcomings in her innate powers, but in terms of pure strength and durability, she appears to be roughly on par with him, able to shrug off hits from Doomsday and actually somewhat immobilize him with the lasso. She also has God knows how many centuries of experience. And to my knowledge, she doesn't have the same magic vulnerability. They may very well be nothing in this world that can hurt her or stand up to her in a fight.

I seriously would not be surprised if she could single-handedly solo the entire Dothraki horde in hand to hand combat if it came down to it.

And then their's the fact that she is a woman who absolutely cannot be made anyone's subordinate entering a highly sexist society, and is unlikely to tolerate the rape/forced marriage/subjugation/etc. of others if she becomes actively involved.
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