Steve Rogers is now a Nazi

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Sidewinder
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Re: Steve Rogers is now a Nazi

Post by Sidewinder »

jwl wrote:
Majin Gojira wrote:
jwl wrote:Oh come on, of course this isn't going to be real. If this wasn't over the internet, I'd bet a lot more than 50p on that. Even if it was intended to be real originally, the next writer is going to retcon it into being mind control or whatever.

I mean, look at those two other examples I gave from DC. Batgirl was drugged by Deathstroke and Green Lantern was possessed by the yellow lantern Parallax entity.
Well, to Originality, the Red Skull brainwashed Steve to be a Nazi back in Tales of Suspense #66-68 in a story by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby no less, back when multi-part stories were rare.

And yeah, if you read Avengers Standoff, it's deep/sublte Mind Control done by the Red Skull (because he has the powers of Charles Xavier thanks to a combination of grave robing and brain surgery). It's definitely temporary and for a deliberate reason.

But that Batgirl incident is a terrible example to use. Deathstroke was NOT the "Plan" in that incident. Not by a longshot. And the writing by comparison was far, far worse.
My point was "even if it was intended to be real originally, the next writer is going to retcon it into being mind control or whatever". Green Lantern wasn't originally supposed to be possessed by the Parallax entity either.
Ah, the infamous "reset button" which Chuck Sonnenburg REPEATEDLY criticized in his reviews of 'Star Trek: Voyager'. This will ensure NOTHING GETS RESOLVED, NO ONE LEARNS ANYTHING, and the TRAGEDY WILL BE REPEATED.

I'm morbidly certain that, after the "Steve Rogers is a Nazi" storyline is resolved, another talentless hack will do a "Steve Rogers is a Communist" story- just to be "edgy," rousing controversy for its own sake- followed by ANOTHER reset, followed by a "Steve Rogers is a Communist Nazi" story, followed by...
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They have more WMD than there are monsters for us to fight. (More insanity here.)
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Majin Gojira
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Re: Steve Rogers is now a Nazi

Post by Majin Gojira »

jwl wrote:
Majin Gojira wrote:
jwl wrote:Oh come on, of course this isn't going to be real. If this wasn't over the internet, I'd bet a lot more than 50p on that. Even if it was intended to be real originally, the next writer is going to retcon it into being mind control or whatever.

I mean, look at those two other examples I gave from DC. Batgirl was drugged by Deathstroke and Green Lantern was possessed by the yellow lantern Parallax entity.
Well, to Originality, the Red Skull brainwashed Steve to be a Nazi back in Tales of Suspense #66-68 in a story by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby no less, back when multi-part stories were rare.

And yeah, if you read Avengers Standoff, it's deep/sublte Mind Control done by the Red Skull (because he has the powers of Charles Xavier thanks to a combination of grave robing and brain surgery). It's definitely temporary and for a deliberate reason.

But that Batgirl incident is a terrible example to use. Deathstroke was NOT the "Plan" in that incident. Not by a longshot. And the writing by comparison was far, far worse.
My point was "even if it was intended to be real originally, the next writer is going to retcon it into being mind control or whatever". Green Lantern wasn't originally supposed to be possessed by the Parallax entity either.
And my point was that such a thing is already in the works without a writer change, at least as near as I can tell.

I could be wrong, Marvel has pulled off similar BS moves before.
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Re: Steve Rogers is now a Nazi

Post by SAMAS »

Well, that was quick. :mrgreen:

I figured we'd get another two or three issues of Marvel seeing if it'll turn around, but they backed off on the very next issue.

Also, when and how did we get a Korean Hulk?

Oh, it's Cho. Nevermind. I totally see that happening. I figure that'll get changed back sooner or later, but I hope Amadeus gets to keep some Gamma by the time it's over.
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Re: Steve Rogers is now a Nazi

Post by Joun_Lord »

Even though I and everyone else already knew they were going to change it back, the question was really how long they run with it, I'm still making a slightly wheezy sigh of relief.

I'm fine with characters changing, getting new traits, even having new people step into the roles. Not a problems with the Miles Morales Spiderman save the fact I get annoyed when he's referred to as the "black" Spiderman both because thats insultingly stupid and he's not black anyway (the "one drop rule" thing annoys the shit out of me, by its logic I'm black and while I wouldn't mind be black considering I'm the palest white bread person ever I'm clearly not black but thats whole other tangent). Female Thor is fine if weird considering the fact Thor is the name of a person and not really a superhero name really, it would be like Miles taking the name of Peter Parker. Hulk that is asian is cool even if I hate his stupid hair.

But a Nazi Steve Rogers is stupid and insulting. Also stupid. Did I mention stupid? It might be vaguely interesting as a "what if" side story or something, Cap so disgusted by the modern world and its chaos that he sees Hydra as the only solution to save the world.

But actual Cap as a Nazi? Nah, that stupid. And it was done stupidly. Despite the fact they said it wasn't mind control, that this was the really Cap and he's been this all along, nope it was just mind control, sorry FALSE MEMORIES by a Cosmic Cube.........that turned into a woman.......what? Well thats stupid.

How is the Marvel cinematic universe and tv shows knocking it our of the park but the comics sucking so terribly? Did like all the talent in the comics be drained vampire style to animate the unholy but entertaining creature that is the MCU?
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Re: Steve Rogers is now a Nazi

Post by Lord Revan »

Nah the talent from comics seemed to been drained long before MCU was a thing or more correctly it's not that don't got good writers but things like these reek of editorial mandate, where some executive said "wouldn't this be a cool idea" without thinking at all about if it's was a good idea.

The funny thing is that "cap is duped into thinking he was a hydra sleeper agent" isn't a bad idea per say but you need to plan and execute it carefully or backlash will be massive and will cost you more then you gained by a rather large margin and everything about this reads like it wasn't planned at all, and execution rather sub par.
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Re: Steve Rogers is now a Nazi

Post by Eulogy »

Marvel, your audience isn't that stupid. You say it isn't mind-control, but nobody has to believe you. Word of God isn't absolute; even gods can lie. Even Stan Lee can have bad ideas.
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