The Secret Fire and Ice (LotR/ASoFaI)

[NecronLord]

1.1 Istari Backstory

You are a senior Maia in Valinor, and you and a group of four serious minded colleagues have volunteered to take on the mantle of journeying to a far-off realm in mortal guise to aid the people there in surviving against an existential magical threat¹. You, the most powerful of the five, are the most capable with magic, while one of your fellows (a grey wizard) is particularly skilled with insight and charisma, another particularly talented as regards birds, beasts and living things (brown robes, naturally), and the other two are generalists (blue).

1.2 Landing, Area of Operations

Your ship lands in Lannisport in -1721 Before Conquest; in a period when the Seven Kingdoms are seven literal kingdoms, and valryia still stands in Essos.

1.3 Personal abilities & equipment

You are limited in form to a single human adult of apparently senior years, although you have blessedly perfect health barring injury.

Equipment consists of magical staves and mundane (if fancy) garments; you can’t bring a palantir or some such with you. For the sake of making the Lord of the Rings abilities consistent, the Grey Wizard has an elven Great Ring similar to Gandalf’s.

You each have the charisma to make people consider your advice seriously; this doesn’t mean that they are obligated to do what you say, but they are inclined to consider you someone of great knowledge; naturally, this may just make them want to stab you more depending on circumstances.

1.4 Lore & Knowledge

You are aware of the world in only general terms; that the Others exist, the Children of the Forest are real, that dragons, in this setting, are not innately hostile or fully sapient, and so on. You do however, have plenty of time to learn. You understand in detail how magic works, and technology up to and including the late 1400s.

1.5 Conduct

Your objective is not to control people, but to aid them. You are not allowed to set yourself up as anyone’s overlord; you can set up a tower such as Isengard, but you can’t just wangle your way into being lord of Winterfell.

You’re not there to destroy the religion of the Seven, or of the Old Gods; the Red God and other Essosi gods that appear to actively grant their priests magical powers, you may attempt to combat if you find it necessary, it may be assumed that these gods are non-interventionist apart from the demonstrable abilities of their priests though, and won’t directly respond to you (though their prests certainly will).

You are not to evangelize the Valar, or Illύvatar; it is probably wise to keep quiet about your origins.

You can make use of any magical items you find or obtain, anything you make, however, should be trivial items; gifts, toys, fireworks and so on, and certainly you should not make weapons though again, you may use those that are found or made by mortals.

You shouldn't advance technology or understanding of magic; people can do that on their own, or not, as they wish, but naturally political effects may change this.

Violating these rules is a failure of your quest, even if it leads to beneficial results.

1.6 Goals

1.6.1 Defend as many people as possible from The Others when they rise.
1.6.2 Secure the existance of all sapient species (except the Others).
1.6.3 Minimize/eliminate slavery, warfare, oppression, etc, without directly imposing your own political systems.

¹ - For our purpouses, assume the Others are indeed as inimical as Westerosi think.

[The Romulan Republic]

Hmm...

I don't know Game of Thrones/Song of Fire and Ice that well (by the way, is this TV version or book version- I'm assuming book for LotR?). However, I think I'll model myself on Gandalf, since he's the most successful of the Istari in canon. Travel around, lending advice and aid to anyone who needs it and is against the Others and isn't an utter monster. Try to avoid getting caught up in local warfare as much as possible, except to urge unity and peaceful solutions, though I will act to preserve innocent life when doing so does not violate my mission, and will of course defend myself against attack.

However, it might be worthwhile to try to establish a secure home base, Isengard-style, as well.

Question: If we die, do we come back, Gandalf-style?

[Elheru Aran]

Well. Before the Conquest? Valyria still stands? That's... interesting.

As Valyria is a dominant power in the world at this point, I suspect the best move is to send either myself or Gandalf there to start trying to extend a bit of influence, soften the Valyrians' mucking about with magic and possibly forestall the Doom and their eventual conquest of the Seven Kingdoms.

If the Doom is a sure thing and we can't prevent it, then perhaps the best thing to do is redirect the Valyrian migration towards Essos rather than Westeros, but the unification of Westeros *could* be a good thing. Or it could be an absolute bloody massacre (as, from the sound of it, it pretty much was anyway). I haven't really studied it that much in depth. How fractious were the Seven Kingdoms? Did they get along?

If the Valyrians do take Westeros and unify it, then the priority becomes trying to guide the Targaryen Dynasty along a more... shall we say... stable path. A bit less incest, for starters. Being less shitty to bastard sons.

Whatever the future lays, the very first thing that needs to be done is to gather information about the state of the world. Lannisport is probably as good a place as any to start-- ports will naturally have lots of news floating around, and it's a primary city of Westeros, so the news will be a bit better than in some bumfuck village.

[NecronLord]

Books for both.

Preventing the Doom of Valyria is of course a smart idea, but I don't know if it'd be possible. I always got the image that it was something like a magical meteor impact or volcanic explosion, so it may not be preventable.

Question: If we die, do we come back, Gandalf-style?

You certainly wouldn't expect to or plan to, but then, neither did Gandalf.

[Ralin]

I think it would be more interesting if the scenario was "Right before the Doom hits Valyria" and part of it was necessarily dealing with the aftermath

[NecronLord]

Perhaps. The date was picked to emulate the time the Istari arrived in advance of the War of the Ring in LotR, some two thousand years before. They spent a thousand years learning. You can naturally lie low and research the world until that point if you like.

[Dass.Kapital]

Not a big fan of the later writings of George but isn't the madness that over comes the former King and their/his line and later the Lannisters because of the *Iocane powder* stuff that the assassin group is spreading about?

Dealing with some of the shadier/weirder groups in the setting would be a good thing as well.

[Ralin]

but isn't the madness that over comes the former King and their/his line and later the Lannisters because of the *Iocane powder* stuff that the assassin group is spreading about?

What?

I have no idea what you're referencing (other than Princess Bride).

[Crazedwraith]

Yeah, I was wondering that.

Also Ice and Fire. Ice And Fire, not Fire and Ice.

I wonder if trying to prevent the Doom of Valyria is worth while for our Grey Wizard, that would preserve a lot of dragons and tech to fight the others if nothing else.

[Lord Revan]

Yeah, I was wondering that.

Also Ice and Fire. Ice And Fire, not Fire and Ice.

I wonder if trying to prevent the Doom of Valyria is worth while for our Grey Wizard, that would preserve a lot of dragons and tech to fight the others if nothing else.

I wonder if that's something that's not possible to prevent or if it's the lesser of two evils.

[Raw Shark]

This pretty much all comes down to charisma guy, so I detail the rest as his bodyguards, do the best I can to suppress hostile magic, get charisma guy to convince Valyria to evacuate, and then go to Westeros and instill so much dread of the others into the population, particularly the wealthy in places like Highgarden, that the Night's Watch is well-stocked with men and provisions and the people are united against the common threat by the time winter comes.

[Ralin]

Yeah, I was wondering that.

Also Ice and Fire. Ice And Fire, not Fire and Ice.

I wonder if trying to prevent the Doom of Valyria is worth while for our Grey Wizard, that would preserve a lot of dragons and tech to fight the others if nothing else.

I wonder if that's something that's not possible to prevent or if it's the lesser of two evils.

The Valyrians were slavers and necromancers on a pretty massive scale. I'm not at all convinced that the Istari wouldn't consider them something that needs to be thrown down.

A charismatic Istari who decided to work with them and use their magic and technology is probably starting down the path that ends with them adopting a shiny prismatic robe, if you catch my meaning.

[NecronLord]

For what it's worth, any of the Istari you want to be is going to be charismatic enough to be taken seriously by people in power, by dint of being able to do things of this nature:

In the wavering firelight Gandalf seemed suddenly to grow: he rose up, a great menacing shape like the monument of some ancient king of stone set upon a hill.

And of course, you get the Voice of Saruman, if you want to influence people, but the Gandalf-expy is better at handling people, knowing what they want, what appeals to them, nonetheless.

Balrog's analysis of Saruman, Gandalf and Radagast, who may be of some use in Westeros if you want to take a look at ravens' messages, if/when that system is set up.

[LadyTevar]

We've seen that Dragon's Eggs are capable of going into 'stasis' until a proper level of heat is applied. Starting when we are, if even one egg is put into safekeeping per generation, that could add up to a much larger army against the Others when Winter comes.

[Ralin]

We've seen that Dragon's Eggs are capable of going into 'stasis' until a proper level of heat is applied. Starting when we are, if even one egg is put into safekeeping per generation, that could add up to a much larger army against the Others when Winter comes.

I'm not sure that is an accurate description of what happened with Dany's dragons. I don't think they were in any sort of magical stasis or whatever, or that that's a natural trait of dragons outside of the improvised blood magic ritual Dany performed to hatch/create her dragons.

Before that, I'm pretty sure they really were just pretty rocks.

[Ralin]

Additionally, we do have evidence that the eggs really were petrified to stone. Quite a few people have tried to hatch dragon eggs since the last Targ dragons died and they all failed. If there were some sort of, I dunno, preserved dragon fetus inside of them it would have been mentioned afterward. It is possible that the specific eggs Dany got were special somehow, but we don't have any evidence of they were that couldn't be explained at least as well by impromptu untrained blood magic.

[Esquire]

Until I read the OP more closely, I was going to advise waiting until the turning point of the War of the Roses Five Kings and taking over Westeros with out knowledge of 14th-century siege artillery. That being forbidden.. hmm.

Not-Gandalf and Not-Saruman wait - Saruman is absolutely not allowed an independent power base - until the first Targaryen heir shows signs of madness, arrange for him/her to be either healed or replaced, and continue this policy, all the while subtly subverting the social pressure to incest, until 'present' day. They can be the hereditary wise-men of House Targaryen, taking generations in shift if anybody notices that the house wizard never seems to get any older, with suitable aid from magical manipulation and disguise. If the Tagaryens remain sane and under the direct influence and protection of overtly magical beings, maybe there will be enough dragons around to make the White Walkers a non-issue?

[Ralin]

all the while subtly subverting the social pressure to incest, until 'present' day.

The Targaryens were under substantial social pressure to not incest. They defied that pressure because they wanted to do it and because they were powerful enough to give anyone who objected the finger. It's not a coincidence that they stopped practicing it within a generation or so of losing their last dragons.

[Lord Revan]

all the while subtly subverting the social pressure to incest, until 'present' day.

The Targaryens were under substantial social pressure to not incest. They defied that pressure because they wanted to do it and because they were powerful enough to give anyone who objected the finger. It's not a coincidence that they stopped practicing it within a generation or so of losing their last dragons.

Tbh I highly dout the Targaryens practiced incest because they were bored and had tried everything else. I suspect that the practice was due social pressure to keep the Bloodline "pure" and the power of the dragons in the hands of the very few so even of the society objected to incest officially they created a situation where the Targaryens though incest was the only way to keep in power.

[Esquire]

That was more-or-less my thinking as well; it would have to be approached mostly from within the royal family itself. Encourage intermarriage with the other great houses over internal ones within the family, that sort of thing. Which, come to think of it, might have the added benefit of fostering a friendlier political climate for when/if the Targaryens eventually lose power.

[Simon_Jester]

all the while subtly subverting the social pressure to incest, until 'present' day.

The Targaryens were under substantial social pressure to not incest. They defied that pressure because they wanted to do it and because they were powerful enough to give anyone who objected the finger. It's not a coincidence that they stopped practicing it within a generation or so of losing their last dragons.

No they didn't.

Aerys II, for all intents and purposes the last Targaryen king, married his sister.

His parents, Jaehaerys II and Shaera, were brother and sister.

Then you go up the royal family tree for two generations of non-incest marriages. The king before that (of the same generation as Jaehaerys's grandfather) married a cousin.

The generation up from that was Daeron II, styled "the Good," who married someone outside the royal line...

But his father, Aegon IV the Unworthy, married his sister, and there was a massive tangle of incestuous relationships in the family tree associated with both Aegon IV's generation and the one right before it. And you have to go back a generation or two before that before you get to the last Targaryen king who actually had their own dragons.

[Elheru Aran]

Arguably the long history of Targaryen incest, while certainly not the only reason (centuries of tyranny, oppression, and general shitty ruling anybody?) definitely contributed in a big way to their eventual overthrow. It was almost certainly a strong factor in their hereditary propensity towards insanity. Averting this would go a very long way towards stabilizing their regime and thickening their contaminated Valyrian blood with stronger Andal genes, which would also tie the various noble families in Westeros more strongly with the ruling dynasty and help dampen the odds of conflict later on.

EDIT:

I mean, imagine if for example Robert Baratheon and Rhaegar Targaryen were half-brothers, with a history of Baratheons marrying Targaryens, Targaryens marrying into the Starks, and so forth. They might still have competed for Lyanna Stark, it might still have driven a wedge between them (hell it WOULD have) but they would have been less likely to turn it into a rationale for open war. A schism between the families, certainly, like what happened with the Starks and Karstarks, but war, less probably so.

[Ralin]

]No they didn't.

Aerys II, for all intents and purposes the last Targaryen king, married his sister.

His parents, Jaehaerys II and Shaera, were brother and sister.

Then you go up the royal family tree for two generations of non-incest marriages. The king before that (of the same generation as Jaehaerys's grandfather) married a cousin.

The generation up from that was Daeron II, styled "the Good," who married someone outside the royal line...

But his father, Aegon IV the Unworthy, married his sister, and there was a massive tangle of incestuous relationships in the family tree associated with both Aegon IV's generation and the one right before it. And you have to go back a generation or two before that before you get to the last Targaryen king who actually had their own dragons.

Yeah...I think I got mixed up thinking about how they ditched polygamy after their last dragons died, which was probably an unofficial concession to appease the Faith.

[Simon_Jester]

Arguably the long history of Targaryen incest, while certainly not the only reason (centuries of tyranny, oppression, and general shitty ruling anybody?) definitely contributed in a big way to their eventual overthrow. It was almost certainly a strong factor in their hereditary propensity towards insanity. Averting this would go a very long way towards stabilizing their regime and thickening their contaminated Valyrian blood with stronger Andal genes, which would also tie the various noble families in Westeros more strongly with the ruling dynasty and help dampen the odds of conflict later on.

Roughly half the later Targaryens did marry noble families outside the dynasty. I didn't try to count the earlier ones.

The fact that it brought out the insanity and arrogance in figures like Aegon IV, Aerys II, and Viserys probably had more to do with the downfall of the dynasty

I mean, imagine if for example Robert Baratheon and Rhaegar Targaryen were half-brothers, with a history of Baratheons marrying Targaryens, Targaryens marrying into the Starks, and so forth. They might still have competed for Lyanna Stark, it might still have driven a wedge between them (hell it WOULD have) but they would have been less likely to turn it into a rationale for open war. A schism between the families, certainly, like what happened with the Starks and Karstarks, but war, less probably so.

Robert and Rhaegar were cousins as it was; Robert's paternal grandmother was Aerys II's aunt and Rhaegar's great-aunt.

Interlocking networks of royal marriages never stopped kings from going to war in real life. In some ways it can make matters worse because it means that after a dozen generations of intermarriage, everyone has some kind of hereditary claim on everyone else's land.

[Knife]

I would put my efforts in the North. Have one or two of my mages in the Watch, take the Black as it were, and over decades cycle through as new peeps. Use that influence to get another north of the wall to wander and gain influence with the Wildings and another with Winterfell to get influence. Solidify a better powerbase in the Watch, increase the magical defenses, get a better relationship with the Wildings, even to the point where they are your early warning system of the Others have arrived.

I would also probably send one Wizard east and make contact with the Red Priests as stuff come more to a head, brief them and get more of them involved in a direct way instead of them coming late to the party with subtly. If I can get in good with Winterfell, start getting the Lords to come north themselves on occassion and do recon north of the wall, keep the Wildings from being 'brigands' and the 'enemy' and rather a resource for the realm.