Lucifer [Fox, spoilers]

[Elheru Aran]

Remiel and Duma? Remiel didn't Fall as much as he took things a bit too far. Duma... I don't know why Duma didn't intervene. I suspect he thought God would take care of that situation. Shame how that worked out, though.

I don't think there was any specific Lord of Hell after Lucifer left, just a loose coalition of higher Demons. Lilith tried to take over for a while there with her Lilim children, but I don't think the other Demons much cared. Remiel and Duma were more or less observers, and the Demons did pretty much whatever they wanted, at least until Christopher Rudd took charge.

Which reminds me. Have they showed Hell any in this? Because that dimension was a pretty important part of the original story...

[Kojiro]

They haven't shown it yet. Maybe they're saving their CGI budget to do a halfway decent depiction in the finale or something. It seems inevitable that at some point they'll have to show something supernatural for more than a few frames.

On that note, I'm starting to find the Lucifer mortality thing slightly annoying because it's derailed the whole 'I'm the Devil!' thing. I really want Chloe to actually be confronted with something undeniable but it seems now he's mortal he has no other tricks to play on. Surely he has some other power he could use to show her.

EDIT: Tevar, I'll knock up that screen cap for you when I get home from work.

[General Zod]

As for "Devil isn't the bad guy", there's a LOT of grey there. We've seen him casually strangle, drown, or otherwise torture people whenever he feels the need. He is very much into punishing the Guilty, with the punishments matching or exceeding the crime as the case may be. Up until he met Chloe, he was a regular nymphomaniac. But, as he ranted at his shrink, he is NOT the source of Human Evil. The Devil does NOT make you do shit, you do it all by yourselves!
So.... Grey Area. Is he Bad for punishing people (sometimes pre-emptively), or is he walking a thin line of Goodness?

But, then there's the fact that Lucifer did Fall... he all but spits it out while Amenandiel was beating him. "Do it DO IT... FALL, Like I DID!" We've still only got the old Myths to go by on the "why" he Fell (or chose to fall?), but he was really not happy about his new profession. I think part of the taunting was because he knew Amenandiel wasn't going to take that step. Not yet, at any rate. In the comic, the two angels who were made to guard Hell did take a path similar to what we're seeing with Amenandiel. One took the idea of punishment of crimes to the point where he did Fall, and his partner/brother/lover(?) watched helplessly because he couldn't stop it. IIRC, the new Fallen One didn't even realize he'd gone over the edge.

However .... I want someone to put out a screen cap of Lucifer, in front of the wings, declaring "They're My Wings!!" For an instant, we can see him as he was, Fully Angelic, Wings-spread... and it was only a INSTANT of screen time. And FoxTV online is frustrating my ability to stop the playback at JUST THAT MOMENT, dammit. I want to freeze that moment of pure Angelic Wrath, set it as my desktop. Because dammit when they wanted a "devilishly handsome" actor, they got one.

Here you go. Snagged it from Reddit.

[Tsyroc]

They haven't shown it yet. Maybe they're saving their CGI budget to do a halfway decent depiction in the finale or something. It seems inevitable that at some point they'll have to show something supernatural for more than a few frames.

On that note, I'm starting to find the Lucifer mortality thing slightly annoying because it's derailed the whole 'I'm the Devil!' thing. I really want Chloe to actually be confronted with something undeniable but it seems now he's mortal he has no other tricks to play on. Surely he has some other power he could use to show her.

I know what you mean. I was really hoping that his "mortality" would be something unique to Chloe and that he'd be confounded even more after finding out that other people still can't hurt him. I may be reading too much into the aftermath of his brother pummeling him though. It's not much of a threat if nothing can happen. In a previous episode Lucifer said, "Look forward to eating your heart", and seemed to take Amenadiel's wings at his throat as at least some sort of threat. So maybe it's normal that angels can damage each other, but the bleeding and the retained bruises have me leaning more towards the mortality angle since all the supernatural beings have made such a big deal about Lucifer bleeding.

It'll be annoying if Lucifer loses all or most of his powers and then they try to turn him into one of those oddball know-it-all sidekicks that has all of this experience and knowledge. In his case because he's been around nearly forever. I tend to like those sort of shows but it would be very disappointing for this show to drag their character down where it is just another reworking of The Mentalist/Castle etc... formula with New Amsterdam/Forever elements amped up to the Nth degree.

[General Zod]

They haven't shown it yet. Maybe they're saving their CGI budget to do a halfway decent depiction in the finale or something. It seems inevitable that at some point they'll have to show something supernatural for more than a few frames.

On that note, I'm starting to find the Lucifer mortality thing slightly annoying because it's derailed the whole 'I'm the Devil!' thing. I really want Chloe to actually be confronted with something undeniable but it seems now he's mortal he has no other tricks to play on. Surely he has some other power he could use to show her.

I know what you mean. I was really hoping that his "mortality" would be something unique to Chloe and that he'd be confounded even more after finding out that other people still can't hurt him. I may be reading too much into the aftermath of his brother pummeling him though. It's not much of a threat if nothing can happen. In a previous episode Lucifer said, "Look forward to eating your heart", and seemed to take Amenadiel's wings at his throat as at least some sort of threat. So maybe it's normal that angels can damage each other, but the bleeding and the retained bruises have me leaning more towards the mortality angle since all the supernatural beings have made such a big deal about Lucifer bleeding.

It'll be annoying if Lucifer loses all or most of his powers and then they try to turn him into one of those oddball know-it-all sidekicks that has all of this experience and knowledge. In his case because he's been around nearly forever. I tend to like those sort of shows but it would be very disappointing for this show to drag their character down where it is just another reworking of The Mentalist/Castle etc... formula with New Amsterdam/Forever elements amped up to the Nth degree.

Well, so far we still don't know. The only people that have injured him are Chloe and an incredibly powerful Angel. We need to see if he can still be hurt if a random mortal tries to kill him.

[bilateralrope]

I'm expecting that the mid-season or end of season cliffhanger will involve Lucifer being shot at, so we have to wait until after the break to see that Chloe is the only human that can harm him.

[Tsyroc]

I'm expecting that the mid-season or end of season cliffhanger will involve Lucifer being shot at, so we have to wait until after the break to see that Chloe is the only human that can harm him.

I think they only ordered 13 episodes initially. Hopefully they won't end the season with a cliffhanger like that.


On Facebook a lot of people are speculating that Lucifer burnt the fake wings. Which I think is possible mostly based on two things. The wings are an important part of the books and getting rid of them would really mess with them attempting to adapt some of the book storylines. The other thing is Lucifer stating that they were "good fakes, and only he could tell". I assume that's a small bit of hyperbole but he did torch them without his brother getting too close or touching them.

I saw one person speculate that they were fake and that the feather Maze found was a fake. Could be...but I also think that it could also suggest that Lucifer could get his wings back just from that one feather if he needs to.

[General Zod]

I'm expecting that the mid-season or end of season cliffhanger will involve Lucifer being shot at, so we have to wait until after the break to see that Chloe is the only human that can harm him.

It's only set to run for 13 episodes, so technically we're at the "mid-season" and that kind of makes me sad.

[bilateralrope]

I'm expecting that the mid-season or end of season cliffhanger will involve Lucifer being shot at, so we have to wait until after the break to see that Chloe is the only human that can harm him.

I think they only ordered 13 episodes initially. Hopefully they won't end the season with a cliffhanger like that.

Do they plan to wrap up the storyline in those 13 episodes ?

Or was it that they ordered 13, with the hope for enough viewers to get more ordered later ?

[Tsyroc]

What I read as that they ordered 13 episodes off the bat and were going to show them in early 2016 as a midseason replacement.

I think the intention has always been to have the show continue if it did well enough and from what I've seen it has been doing well enough to get renewed.

[General Zod]

What I read as that they ordered 13 episodes off the bat and were going to show them in early 2016 as a midseason replacement.

I think the intention has always been to have the show continue if it did well enough and from what I've seen it has been doing well enough to get renewed.

I'm just really worried it's going to turn out like Constantine.

[LadyTevar]

Here you go. Snagged it from Reddit.

I love you forever and always.

[Tsyroc]

They sure don't seem to be against stirring up the pot on this show and changing things from the status quo. Except for the part where Chloe doesn't believe he's the devil.

I also wished that the guy holding the knife to Lucifer's throat had tried a little harder to cut him so we'd know for certain whether he is really turning mortal or if it's just Chloe and Angels who can harm him.

Still not crazy about the cases of the week. They are the reason for the character interactions, which is good, but as cases they haven't been that great. That was one of the complaints about New Amsterdam and I often get a later season Castle vibe from the show when it pertains to how the cases go.

Loved the Chloe/Lucifer/Dr. Linda Martin (Lucifer's shrink) interactions. Lucifer banging the judge to get Dr. Linda on the case was also pretty funny.


I am hopeful that there is a decent explanation for what appears to have been going on with "Detective Douche" (ie. Dan). I've been kind of liking him of late so I hope that this new revelation doesn't turn into a worst case scenario.

What the hell is Maze going to do, and when Lucifer says "They're done" does that mean she isn't running Lux (and everything else) for him? If so, I think he's going to be in for a rude awakening, which could be funny. Change his vacation into something more like one of those immersion getaways where you get to live the life of the locals, or how it was in "the Old West" etc...

[General Zod]

I think they want us to stay in suspense over Lucifer's mortality. I'm a little disappointed by Detective Douche turning out to be an apparent bad guy though.

What the hell is Maze going to do, and when Lucifer says "They're done" does that mean she isn't running Lux (and everything else) for him? If so, I think he's going to be in for a rude awakening, which could be funny. Change his vacation into something more like one of those immersion getaways where you get to live the life of the locals, or how it was in "the Old West" etc...

Going to Amenadiel with the feather she saved, is my guess.

[FaxModem1]

So, are we really going with the whole "Cop's ex/superior is the bad guy all along" cliche? Honestly, this show just seems to waste its premise on being a boring case of the week cop show.

[LadyTevar]

What I'm wondering is far deeper: Was the "coma cop" like this before? He's going out of his way to push buttons. He's talking about being dead, and coming back. We know Amenandiel had something to do with it. We know Amenandiel has been "patrolling the Gates" and keeping things in. We know Amenandiel is hating that assignment, and wants Lucifer back doing the job.
But, Amenandiel allowed a soul to come back.

How do we know it was the Right Soul?

[biostem]

What I'm wondering is far deeper: Was the "coma cop" like this before? He's going out of his way to push buttons. He's talking about being dead, and coming back. We know Amenandiel had something to do with it. We know Amenandiel has been "patrolling the Gates" and keeping things in. We know Amenandiel is hating that assignment, and wants Lucifer back doing the job.
But, Amenandiel allowed a soul to come back.

How do we know it was the Right Soul?

Well, he seems to know details about Chloe's husband, so I don't think it's another soul or something. I'm wondering if Chloe's husband, (detective douchebag), actually had a legitimate reason for following him there and shooting him.

I'm interested to see what happens with Maze, now that Lucifer has basically "fired her"... get it - "fired her"!!!

I'm also wondering if Lucifer will confront Amendial about his little "Dr. Canaan" ploy - it'd be hilarious if Lucifer scheduled an appointment with him under an alias, (or called in a favor to have someone else go on his behalf).

I realize this is a show and all that, but I can't imagine that, after living for so long, Lucifer is so lacking in self awareness...

[LadyTevar]

I realize this is a show and all that, but I can't imagine that, after living for so long, Lucifer is so lacking in self awareness...

Remember, while he has lived a long time, he's been rather stuck in one place for the majority of that time.

[Tsyroc]

I realize this is a show and all that, but I can't imagine that, after living for so long, Lucifer is so lacking in self awareness...

Remember, while he has lived a long time, he's been rather stuck in one place for the majority of that time.

I also think that part of the point is supposed to be that Lucifer is going to learn things from being around humans because we don't live forever. Angels don't have children (so far that we've seen in the show) but god does have children and maybe god's plan is to have Lucifer learn, eventually replace him, and/or move on and create his own reality. I mean, based on the time frame god and the angels work from it should take a very long time for them to reach the same point in a parent/child relationship that humans do in what would be less than a blink of an eye to someone as immortal as god.

The most recent episodes A Priest Walks Into a Bar suggests that god has very, very long term plans and perhaps the angels aren't really equipped to recognize or deal with this. Especially, if the impression I get is correct, that Lucifer is the only angel who might currently have had some hint of free will for however many thousands/millions of years things have been going on.

I also look at it in the sense of god being the owner of some family business. His favorite son helped set things up but then he was turfed to the shittiest job possible, but he was in charge of it, on his own. People have been known to have their heirs learn the business from the ground up so they have better understanding of the entire business. So, either god plans on Lucifer taking over for him at some point or he's trying to teach Lucifer so he can move on and do his own thing. It's kind of what human parents do so why not the "divine" but on a larger scale and gigantic time scale?

Humans are supposedly created in god's image, then the fact that we have children and try to teach them so they can replace us or do better than us, might be the basis for Lucifer's what's going on with Lucifer. Maybe the show is Lucifer's "college years" where he has been partying his way through dad's money for the last 5 years and now crossing paths with Detective Decker is slowly pulling him out of that. At least a bit.

Spoiler

Now, some of my basis for what I'm thinking is that in the comics Lucifer does create his own reality, god does leave our reality, and an angel does have a child.

[LadyTevar]

Tsyroc, I can see your points, and I think you may have something there.

[General Zod]

Preacher is supposed to air in May. Considering the tie-in between the comics, I'm wondering if the two shows are going to see a lot of crossover; considering that Lucifer's doing better than Gotham in terms of ratings I'm banking on the show being picked up for a second season.

[biostem]

So Lucifer *can* be injured by any mundane source, as per the latest episode.

The plan to have back-from-the-dead-cop kill Lucifer doesn't quite make sense to me, though - let's say he manages to kill Lucifer - what's to say Lucifer wouldn't simply be a resident/subject in hell, as opposed to its ruler?

[General Zod]

I don't think Amenadiel really cares as long as he's back in hell at this point.

[LadyTevar]

I think Amenandiel believes that if Lucifer *is* back in Hell, then ergo he will be ruling and Amenandiel can go back to the Heavenly Host and chill.
*smirk* But I don't think God will be real pleased with fraticide, even by proxy.

It kinda sucks that I have to wait and watch online, especially when I'm away from my computer like I was last week and only just got caught up. Last week's, with the priest, pushed Lucifer into a lot of soul-searching. In the comics, we know that Father Frank was right, God's plan isn't over for Lucifer, but it's going to be interesting how the show will spin it. The last scene, screaming at Heaven was intense.

But, the last scene of "Pops" was hilarious... "Oh GOD!"... and the musical answer "AAAAAMMMMEEEENNNNN!!" It almost made up for the fact we don't know if Det. Douche is alive or not. Either way, the last three episodes this season are going to be fast and furious to wrap this up. At least Mazeen made a couple new friends. I have to wonder if she even knows what a Shirley Temple is.

[Tsyroc]

I think Malcom said, "go to sleep" when he was choking Dan, so I think Dan is still alive. I hope so, other than one of his comments in one of the early episodes I kind of like him. It's fun watching him play off of Lucifer and I like him with Trixie.

Amenadiel better be careful or he could find himself as the new Devil and not just it's fill-in gate guardian.