Lucifer [Fox, spoilers]

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Lucifer [Fox, spoilers]

Post by Thanas »

Just wondering if anybody has seen it. From wiki it looks as if they turned the comic series into a police procedural...which kinda sucks. Any opinions?
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Re: Lucifer [Fox, spoilers]

Post by Gaidin »

I think it'll turn on what they do with Amenadiel. You can do the kind of "story" a tv show needs and still hit the spirit of the comics I think if they have a five to ten minute slot every episode for the conflict with him with the occasional episode that is that conflict. That's what they did in the pilot anyway. Of course, what remains to be seen is how long Fox bothers to even carry the show.
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Re: Lucifer [Fox, spoilers]

Post by bilateralrope »

The first episode was different enough to be enjoyable. Though I'll admit that I've enjoyed a few police procedurals that most people here didn't like.

I'll see how the second episode plays out.
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Re: Lucifer [Fox, spoilers]

Post by LadyTevar »

Gaimon is hopeful, from what I understand. Unfortunately, I'll have to wait until Fox puts it on their website before I can say more
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Re: Lucifer [Fox, spoilers]

Post by Tsyroc »

I liked it.

It was amusing, and in some way it was what I was hoping for when I first read the description for the comic series.

That being said, I'm a little concerned about how it could maintain itself in that way. Maybe the pilot is the hook and then it will slowly be more like the comic series. Although, considering the bitching going on IMDB about this series I think some people will really lose their shit if the show starts following some of the comic storylines.

I like the comic fine how it is, but it seemed like they didn't make much use of the idea that the Devil quits and opens a bar in L.A. I do like that Lucifer isn't particularly evil, he just doesn't really give a shit about humanity, or like us all that much.
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Re: Lucifer [Fox, spoilers]

Post by LadyTevar »

I finally got to see it, and I have to say I like it.

It's obvious Mazikeen (Maze) is one of Lucifer's demonic companions, although why s/he joined up Above I hope to see play out over the series. Amenadiel and Lucifer have a lot more history behind them, and Amenadiel is shaping up nicely as the perfect Lawful Good. There's RPGers out there that should take note. From the dialogue so far, I think we'll see a couple of Damned and/or Demons up to no good, but I hope they stay focused more on what we Humans do to ourselves without outside help. Free Will is a bitch, after all.

It's also going to be interesting how Chloe and her daughter play on Lucifer's emotions. Doctor Linda is another I hope sticks around, because the Devil going to a shrink is just hilarious in my mind. After all, Lucifer has some serious Daddy Issues. I'm expecting the 'pillow talk' to be classy. I hope it addresses Lucifer's obsession with punishment.

The dialogue was sharp and sassy, the music fit well ("No Rest for the Wicked" is a nice touch, it should become his motif). There's good chemistry between the actors, even the kid. The crime itself was a little cliche, but it was just framework for the characters to meet, so I'll forgive the cheese. They did set Checkov's Gun nicely, with Chloe noting the watch from the start. I'll admit they did a nice job deflecting the suspicion for a while, showing that even the Devil can miss a detail.

Overall, I give the pilot a 4/5.
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Re: Lucifer [Fox, spoilers]

Post by Thanas »

See, the way they handled Mazikeen made me pretty certain this will not be at all like the comic.
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Re: Lucifer [Fox, spoilers]

Post by biostem »

I really enjoyed the 1st episode. It's interesting to see the devil be a little, well, afraid of some other angel - I thought h was supposed to be the most powerful angel, (but I could be misremembering).

I hope they don't turn Lucifer into too much of a good guy - he can do what's ultimately right, but I don't want to see him become too goodie-goodie.
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Re: Lucifer [Fox, spoilers]

Post by Tsyroc »

biostem wrote:I really enjoyed the 1st episode. It's interesting to see the devil be a little, well, afraid of some other angel - I thought h was supposed to be the most powerful angel, (but I could be misremembering).

I hope they don't turn Lucifer into too much of a good guy - he can do what's ultimately right, but I don't want to see him become too goodie-goodie.
In the comics Lucifer and Michael are the most powerful angels. However, for at least part of the comic story LuciferSpoiler
gave up his wings and was greatly depowered without them.
I wouldn't be surprised if that is something that is going to come up in the show.
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Re: Lucifer [Fox, spoilers]

Post by Thanas »

Spoiler tags do not work with a quote in the post.
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Re: Lucifer [Fox, spoilers]

Post by Tsyroc »

Roger that.

I guess the last time I saw anything about it they didn't work at all.

Anyway the potential spoiler, assuming the show goes that route is Spoiler
that in the comics Lucifer gave up his wings and most of his power for a time. I could see that being the case in the show. He hasn't shown that much power, or his wings. and has appeared to be somewhat afraid of the other angel.
I enjoyed the second episode. The humor and perviness were good ("Devil's Three Way" and "Eiffel Tower", who knew the devil was Barney Stinson?) I also liked that some darkness has shown through too. His need to punish people and the long term results of people seeing him for who he really is.

I like that the detective is starting to look into Lucifer. It's kind of funny since he's been telling her straight up who he is and that he's immortal.
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Re: Lucifer [Fox, spoilers]

Post by Thanas »

Have to say they definitely changed so much that the comic is not represented in here except for the basic "devil goes on vacation" premise. Starting from the appearance of Lucifer and Mazikeen.
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Re: Lucifer [Fox, spoilers]

Post by Kojiro »

In the comics, Lucifer says something to the effect of 'Careful, I have given up my wings but none of my power.' If memory serves he was speaking to an angel but it's been a long time. I do recall that Dream explains to one of his minions that Lucifer is 'one of the most powerful being in existence, save perhaps for his creator'. Either way, this show's Lucifer doesn't seem even a fraction as powerful as his comic book self. Certainly not if this is indeed the Vertigo/DC Sandman universe.

I'm curious is they'll keep the current dynamic. It kind of reminds me of Castle (or any other professional+civilian sidekick show). I think perhaps a more interesting path would be to make Lucifer the lead, bringing the cop in on his supernatural investigations as the civilian. The fact that Lucifer seems to be taking no effort whatsoever to conceal his nature or the supernatural world means that the cop will soon start taking his claims seriously, especially if he keeps shrugging off bullets and 'teleporting'.

Regardless I'm enjoying it thus far.
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Re: Lucifer [Fox, spoilers]

Post by Vendetta »

To be fair, most of the time Lucifer doesn't do anything with his immense power (in fact the only time he does it turns out that someone was waiting for that moment to attack), it's mostly force of will, incredible smugness, and being a great manipulator of minds.

Spoiler
In his eventual duel with Amenadiel, where he's actually completely drained of his powers due to previous shenanigans, each has to consume the heart of the other to win. He arranges for Amenadiel to be given a "charm" which will lead him to Lucifer in an apparent betrayal by his second. The charm is Lucifer's heart in a box, the one place Amenadiel will never actually look for it, Lucifer has replaced the one in his chest with one from a particularly virulent monster which paralyses Amenadiel when he eats it.
That said, the story is going to be nothing like the comics, it's too big and fantastical for a TV audience to cope with, and would require far too high an FX budget.

Pity, because the first casualty is the Hell stories and they're all pretty good.
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Re: Lucifer [Fox, spoilers]

Post by Tsyroc »

Vendetta wrote: That said, the story is going to be nothing like the comics, it's too big and fantastical for a TV audience to cope with, and would require far too high an FX budget.

Pity, because the first casualty is the Hell stories and they're all pretty good.

Maybe if it goes on long enough they might feel comfortable enough to try some of the big stuff that is in the books. There's already plenty of bitching about the show just existing from the Bible thumper crowd. Imagine how pissed they'd be about God abandoning heaven or Lucifer creating his own reality?

One blaring change already is that Lucifer (if not all Angels) has genitals and can have sex. His sexuality is one of the more amusing things in the show but really diverges from the book.
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Re: Lucifer [Fox, spoilers]

Post by Dark Hellion »

In the comics Lucifer (and all the other angels) definitely have genitals and can have sex. That's how all the trouble with the Lilim and other things happen in the first place.

Additionally, Lucifer almost always tended to be very subdued about using his power. Often, his power had far more to do with an ability to ignore rules that where iron clad for lesser beings.

So far I have really enjoyed the show. It was obvious they were going to have lots of changes (considering they didn't get a Bowie look a like to play Lucifer) and the highly fantastical and philosophical nature of the original comic. But, many of the characters have charm so far and it seems like there are a lot of interesting things they can do with his relationships.
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Re: Lucifer [Fox, spoilers]

Post by Elheru Aran »

Lucifer and Michael and the other angels are explicitly shown without genitalia in the comics, they look like winged Ken dolls. However they do manage to have sex (somehow) with various characters.

In the comic, Lucifer was a lot more aloof and arrogant. He's also a lot less shy about his power, at least later on-- see destroying an entire dimension by his very existence within there.

I can't help but think it'd be nice if they ran with the whole creating his own universe thing. I also want to see Mazikeen's face come off at some point. I always liked the half-mask thing they had going on in the comics. She doesn't look quite right without it.
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Re: Lucifer [Fox, spoilers]

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Been thinking of watching this, though I haven't read the comic. I can always use a new urban fantasy series. But I'm on the fence about it. Villains as the hero aren't my thing, in general, and you can't get more of that than a show starring Lucifer. So I guess what I'm wondering is: How is Lucifer characterized in this show? How close is he to the Biblical depiction? I gather that their are some significant differences, of course. How sympathetically is he portrayed?

I feel like this is definitely a show that would likely be made or broken on the basis of the characterization.

Also, how much does the show emphasize humour as opposed to drama?

Just trying to get a feel for it. But I think I'll check out the next episode if I have the time.
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Re: Lucifer [Fox, spoilers]

Post by Gaidin »

I think they're doing decent. He's more an anti-hero. Or if not that then he's just a neutral guy who each episode picks a cause or interest, or has picked that cause or interest in following the detective and just sticks to it. And yea, I'm getting the feeling that it's sort of got the story structure of Person of Interest. Where they'll have their case, about 32 minutes dedicated to it in the writing. Another 11 minutes between the characters and the over-arching plot.

My big worry is Fox. How much will it take to stick to it. Because, with the overarching plot they seem to be doing, I don't think it'll be hard to hit the spirit of the comics but still hit the episodic nature that some tv shows may need.
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Re: Lucifer [Fox, spoilers]

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Watched the new episode tonight.

Like I said, the premise doesn't appeal to me (though the idea of the Devil talking to a therapist is pure gold and I'd like them to do more with it). Also, the show was a bit too mired in police procedural tropes/cliches, it was fairly predictable, and the resolution struck me as decidedly implausible.

However, Tom Ellis (I had to look up his name because I wasn't familiar with his work until now) is quite good in the title role- at times his expression and demeanour nailed just the right mix of charming, sinister, sleazy, and mad for the part of the Devil as a protagonist. And he can deliver that sense of intense menace when the script calls for it.

The opening scene where he appears to be trying to tempt a girl to kill herself, only for it to turn out that he's just trying to get her to jump in a pool, was an effective twist.

Pity the rest of the cast is nothing special from what I've seen. Not bad. Just not great.

The show doesn't have quite the emotional impact or depth of themes and characterization to be truly great, in my opinion, at least based off this one episode. Its light fluff so far. But I dare say it can qualify as entertaining fluff as long as you can accept the basic premise of the Devil as a sympathetic protagonist, and it has the potential to go further.

One thing I do very much like is that the cop lady is figuring out already that Lucifer is, in fact, supernatural. Too often, the "skeptic" character is kept in the dark/in denial far past the point of plausibility (Scully in The X-Files is a particularly bad example), and it gets tiresome. Looks like that'll be coming to a head next episode, based on the teaser, and I hope they follow through and don't revert to the status quo.

So, tentatively giving this show a thumbs up, at least conditionally. I'll need to watch it a bit more to see if it can grow into something better.

Edits: Some of the humour is quite good too. At times, it was almost reaching for that Buffy vibe of supernatural plus snarky wit.

I particularly liked Lucifer's crack about finally understanding his Dad's beef with graven images. :lol:

Also, added spoiler warnings just in case, even though their's one in the thread title. Then removed them because they screwed up the formatting of the post. Apologies.
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Re: Lucifer [Fox, spoilers]

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Oh, and speaking of Buffy, given the LA setting and all, someone really needs to write a good crossover fanfic with "Angel".
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Re: Lucifer [Fox, spoilers]

Post by General Zod »

The Romulan Republic wrote: One thing I do very much like is that the cop lady is figuring out already that Lucifer is, in fact, supernatural. Too often, the "skeptic" character is kept in the dark/in denial far past the point of plausibility (Scully in The X-Files is a particularly bad example), and it gets tiresome. Looks like that'll be coming to a head next episode, based on the teaser, and I hope they follow through and don't revert to the status quo.
I really like how they're handling it so far. Unlike a lot of other shows Lucifer's really not making any sort of effort to hide anything and he's almost going out of his way to be pretty blatant about it and convince her. I'm hoping for some breakthrough on the whole plot of hell being without a ruler by the mid season, because that's what's really going to drive it forward.
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Re: Lucifer [Fox, spoilers]

Post by biostem »

Yeah, I'm enjoying the series so far.
Spoiler
The little side-plot of Lucifer getting his identity stolen was hilarious, IMO
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Re: Lucifer [Fox, spoilers]

Post by The Romulan Republic »

General Zod wrote:
The Romulan Republic wrote: One thing I do very much like is that the cop lady is figuring out already that Lucifer is, in fact, supernatural. Too often, the "skeptic" character is kept in the dark/in denial far past the point of plausibility (Scully in The X-Files is a particularly bad example), and it gets tiresome. Looks like that'll be coming to a head next episode, based on the teaser, and I hope they follow through and don't revert to the status quo.
I really like how they're handling it so far. Unlike a lot of other shows Lucifer's really not making any sort of effort to hide anything and he's almost going out of his way to be pretty blatant about it and convince her. I'm hoping for some breakthrough on the whole plot of hell being without a ruler by the mid season, because that's what's really going to drive it forward.
It wouldn't really make sense otherwise, would it? Its not like anyone (barring God and maybe angels) can do anything to Lucifer if they do find out who he is, right? Besides, he's clearly a bit of an attention whore. He wants people to know how awesome he is.

Edit: I mean, he actually introduces himself as Lucifer Morningstar.
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Re: Lucifer [Fox, spoilers]

Post by Darth Nostril »

General Zod wrote: I really like how they're handling it so far. Unlike a lot of other shows Lucifer's really not making any sort of effort to hide anything and he's almost going out of his way to be pretty blatant about it and convince her. I'm hoping for some breakthrough on the whole plot of hell being without a ruler by the mid season, because that's what's really going to drive it forward.
Depends on how closely they stick to the comics. Comics-wise hell isn't just without a ruler, it's completely empty. Lucifer booted everyone out, demons and damned souls alike, locked the whole place up and gave the key to Morpheus. Then buggered off to a beach in Australia to enjoy the sunset.
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