The Shannara Chronicles

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The Shannara Chronicles

Post by mr friendly guy »

Due to be released in Jan 5 with a 2 hour premier.

Now Grace Randolf who runs a youtube channel got a gift from MTV including copies of the first few episodes. She reviews it (non spoiler review) here (link below). Apparently they went all out in special effects for the season opener.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WotB6uyKNvo

Allanon is played by Manu Bennett - ie Deathstroke from the Arrow series
The Elven King, Eventine Elessedil is played by Gimli, er I mean Professor Arturo, er I mean John Rhys Davies.

Looking at the list of characters, it appears to be set at the time of the Elfstones of Shannara. This has got me excited.
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Re: The Shannara Chronicles

Post by The Romulan Republic »

I've seen teasers for this, and its caught my interest, but I know jack about the books.
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Re: The Shannara Chronicles

Post by Knife »

The first book was a... creative nod and wink to LOTR. I personally liked it, a blatant rip off but fun. The second book was Elfstones, which this series is supposed to be about, well that I've heard. It was fairly imaginative and new, as opposed to the original book. I'm actually a bit excited. I never liked the third book, never made much sense to me. He kept writing them too, some good, others really really bad. At some point I don't think he liked his own little universe anymore and kind of just churned out crap. There was a nice prequel book though, and I do believe he tied in some other series he had into the universe, a modern fantasy that described the Great War talked about in the Shannara series.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong

But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
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Re: The Shannara Chronicles

Post by mr friendly guy »

The Romulan Republic wrote:I've seen teasers for this, and its caught my interest, but I know jack about the books.
From memory it is set in our world after 2 nuclear holocaust, although its not always clear (he wrote prequel books which then made this clear). So first we had weapons, then we ended up going backwards and magic makes a come back. In his second world, initially magical creatures predominate. There were two factions, the good creature of faery and the demons. The good won by banishing the demons to another dimension and creating a magical tree called the Ellcrys to guard it. This is important because its the story of the Elfstones of Shannara.

Years past and humankind arose and we developed technology. This was known as the old race of Men. We went to war with the good creatures of faery (some liked to torment us with tricks, but ultimately it was our prejudice and fear that drove us). Not sure how powerful the faery are at this point, but its hinted they are weakened compared to pre banishment times while the demons had grown stronger in that other dimension. Anyway, the magical creatures knew they were losing to our numbers and technology so they hid themselves away. Humans then turned on each other and its hinted we again had nuclear holocaust.

Fast forward to modern times. The remaining good faery creatures became Elves, and had pretty much lost their magic. Humans evolved into dwarves and the current races of humans. Some humans sort to rediscover the ancient knowledge of science and became the Druids. One of them, Brona discovered magic as well and became the Warlock Lord. Another Bremen also discovered magic and forged a magic sword to deal specifically with the magic of Brona. This sword was given to the Elf nobility family called Shannara, hence the name "sword of Shannara." Note the sword works well against Brona's illusionary magic by revealing the truth, and is just another sword against other foes.

Bremen also raised an apprentice, Allanon who is the last of the druids after the Warlock Lord killed everyone but Bremen. Allanon is the adopted son of Bremen.

Anyway, book one is LoTR homage where Allanon discovers that the descendent of Shannara is in a human family called Ohmsford and they beat the big bad Warlock Lord permanently. In book two (which the series covers), the Ellcrys is dying and some demons sneak through. There is lots of battles and also a quest to find a way to rejuvenate the Ellcrys. While Allanon advises the armies of elves, humans and even trolls, the other protagonist Wil Ohmsford must find a way to rejuvenate the Ellcrys.
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Re: The Shannara Chronicles

Post by Tribble »

This sword was given to the Elf nobility family called Shannara, hence the name "sword of Shannara." Note the sword works well against Brona's illusionary magic by revealing the truth, and is just another sword against other foes.
IIRC, Brona's magic was real. The problem for Brona was that magic in this universe is based upon belief. For example, the Sword of Shannara would only work for Shea because Bremen made the mistake of giving it to the King at the time instead of just a common person, and thus it became belief that only a descendant of the King could wield it. Shea was the only one who could wield the sword because he was the only one who could completely believe in his right to use it, even though it was intended to be used by anyone.

IIRC Brona was already long dead, but a part of him continued to exist via magic because it believed that it was still alive. Basically the Sword just revealed the truth to "Brona", which was that for all his power he was in fact quite dead. Without that belief, the magic stopped working, and that remnant of him ceased to exist.
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Re: The Shannara Chronicles

Post by Knife »

Tribble wrote:
IIRC, Brona's magic was real. The problem for Brona was that magic in this universe is based upon belief. For example, the Sword of Shannara would only work for Shea because Bremen made the mistake of giving it to the King at the time instead of just a common person, and thus it became belief that only a descendant of the King could wield it. Shea was the only one who could wield the sword because he was the only one who could completely believe in his right to use it, even though it was intended to be used by anyone.

IIRC Brona was already long dead, but a part of him continued to exist via magic because it believed that it was still alive. Basically the Sword just revealed the truth to "Brona", which was that for all his power he was in fact quite dead. Without that belief, the magic stopped working, and that remnant of him ceased to exist.
Pretty much, as I recall the magic made the user and/or the target see the truth about themselves. It could either be very destructive or could be a transformative experience. Brona was all smoke and mirrors and so a deep look at himself dispelled himself type thing. Shea's experience just made him stronger in accepting his faults and limitations.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong

But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
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Re: The Shannara Chronicles

Post by Simon_Jester »

I always had a problem with the first book, Sword of Shannara.

For one, the 'wise old wizard' guy (I forget his name) was basically THE all time exemplar of the unhelpful, uninformative mentor. I get how he had to keep one critical secret (the precise nature of the Sword's power over the villain). But there were so many other issues where he should have told the hero what was going on, and where failure to do so either had or could have had severe consequences.

The most obvious one I remember is that as I recall, early in the plot he basically gave Our Hero and his Trusty Friend/Sidekick instructions to travel for weeks through a howling wilderness with only the elfstones for protection. Granted that the elfstones' power would work very well against any supernatural monsters they encountered. But what would have happened if they'd been attacked by random bandits, or hungry bears, or something? The elfstones would be totally useless against such a mundane threat.
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Re: The Shannara Chronicles

Post by Ralin »

Simon_Jester wrote: The most obvious one I remember is that as I recall, early in the plot he basically gave Our Hero and his Trusty Friend/Sidekick instructions to travel for weeks through a howling wilderness with only the elfstones for protection. Granted that the elfstones' power would work very well against any supernatural monsters they encountered. But what would have happened if they'd been attacked by random bandits, or hungry bears, or something? The elfstones would be totally useless against such a mundane threat.
Been a very long time since I read the book so I can't remember the context well, but 1) Allanon might have had reason to believe bandits and mundane animals weren't likely to be an issue given that it was a wasteland and IIRC the Ohmsford brothers had a reasonable amount of outdoors experience and 2) Allanon might have just underestimated that danger on account of being a powerful druid and also because it was kind of an emergency.
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Re: The Shannara Chronicles

Post by Simon_Jester »

Yes, but it really isn't a good idea to keep the protagonist so totally ignorant of what his own defensive measures can and cannot do. From what I recall, Allanon basically gave Our Hero the elfstones and said "these will protect you." What would have happened if Our Hero had encountered bandits and tried to use the elfstones instead of, say, running away?
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Re: The Shannara Chronicles

Post by Knife »

Just watched the first two, not to bad. I really appreciate the post apocalyptic bent in the visuals. Makes it a bit different than the standard LOTR rip offs in the 1980's. They changed quite a bit but overall not a bad thing. I'm having some problems with the change to the Dadga Mor being a Druid, kind of missed not having a good look at a castle Paranor.

As far as the Elfstones and hampering our hero, even back in the day reading the books, at the end, I just figured Allannon just really didn't know how to operate the Elfstones and could only give Wil basic vague instructions about how to connect with it's magic.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong

But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
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Re: The Shannara Chronicles

Post by Simon_Jester »

Hm... that's plausible.

Honestly, large portions of the book just seemed to be built in large part around taking the "enigmatic old mentor" stock character and cranking up the "enigmatic" so high that said mentor became nearly useless and was actively endangering the person he was mentoring.

But it's been a while, and I may be exaggerating in hindsight.
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Re: The Shannara Chronicles

Post by Lord Revan »

IIRC this series is avaible on HBO Nordic (dispite the name it shows series from other networks besides HBO), so a few questions a) is this series worth the try or is it "for fans of the gendre only"? b) How much "this for cable TV" gratious nudity is there, not that I mind that but it can get a bit silly if used too often or just where it was not needed and detrack from the story.
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Re: The Shannara Chronicles

Post by Knife »

Nah, there was a one girl butt shot so far, a couple of the elven dresses are skimpy, but no real gratuitous naked bodies. In a couple of the scenes the acting is... could be better. But overall, they've made a good go at it and I think it's worth watching at this point. You should be able to pick up easily what's going on and they've put enough backstory in the dialogue and visuals so you get the general idea of what's going on. Give it a whorl.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong

But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
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Re: The Shannara Chronicles

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Simon_Jester wrote:Hm... that's plausible.

Honestly, large portions of the book just seemed to be built in large part around taking the "enigmatic old mentor" stock character and cranking up the "enigmatic" so high that said mentor became nearly useless and was actively endangering the person he was mentoring.

But it's been a while, and I may be exaggerating in hindsight.
Well Allanon is supposed to be old and wise, but they also portray him as flawed as well. There are definite gaps in his knowledge, he has to go back to the Druid Keep often to consult the library there (in the books). The Elfstones are ancient Fairy magic well before his years only Elves can use and he's not an Elf.

Your right though, Brooks does play up the secret plan only one can know or else the tender wisps of hope can come crashing down and it only comes together in the end type thing.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong

But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
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Re: The Shannara Chronicles

Post by Ralin »

Knife wrote:
Simon_Jester wrote:Hm... that's plausible.

Honestly, large portions of the book just seemed to be built in large part around taking the "enigmatic old mentor" stock character and cranking up the "enigmatic" so high that said mentor became nearly useless and was actively endangering the person he was mentoring.

But it's been a while, and I may be exaggerating in hindsight.
Well Allanon is supposed to be old and wise, but they also portray him as flawed as well. There are definite gaps in his knowledge, he has to go back to the Druid Keep often to consult the library there (in the books). The Elfstones are ancient Fairy magic well before his years only Elves can use and he's not an Elf.

Your right though, Brooks does play up the secret plan only one can know or else the tender wisps of hope can come crashing down and it only comes together in the end type thing.
Again, it's been a long time since I read any of these books so I'm forgetting lots of details but I remember Allanon being arrogant, impatient and a pretty damned scary person to interrogate. Animals and bandits might just not be on his radar unless he has a specific reason to think they'll be an issue. Like Knife said he might not have known exactly how to activate the Elfstones himself, and really? Normal people in this series just flat out don't seem to think to try unfamiliar magic (which for normal people tends to be all or almost all magic) unless they're faced with something completely outside the pale like whatever the magical threat of the book is. Bandits the Ohmsford brothers know how to deal with because they're just people with weapons and the protagonists are functioning adults who know how to deal with dangerous people, if only by running away or avoiding them. Ditto for wild animals. They're not going to think to break out the Elfstones until a Skull Bearer swoops in because until then they're at best only half-sure Allanon isn't making all this shit up.

If I remember right the first time someone uses the Elfstones usually boils down to them being cornered by something dangerous and magical and the Elfstones reacting partially of their own accord. Given that Allanon can't do a tutorial session and knows that people aren't going to bother trying them against normal things because they're afraid of looking stupid he probably just assumes he should let nature take its course on that one.

I mean, yeah someone who was just really naturally curious about magic might push for more answers or experiment on their own, but most of the protagonists don't seem to fall into that category. Possibly because people who are really gung-ho to learn about and use magic tend to go insane and end up as the villains.
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Re: The Shannara Chronicles

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Knife wrote:Nah, there was a one girl butt shot so far, a couple of the elven dresses are skimpy, but no real gratuitous naked bodies. In a couple of the scenes the acting is... could be better. But overall, they've made a good go at it and I think it's worth watching at this point. You should be able to pick up easily what's going on and they've put enough backstory in the dialogue and visuals so you get the general idea of what's going on. Give it a whorl.
saw it now and it seemed more like regular US TV at the moment, while there's some questionble acting and some of the clothes look too "modern" (for a lack of a better word) but overall it was enjoyble enough and I didn't feel like I was lost about what was going on even if I didn't know all the details.
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Re: The Shannara Chronicles

Post by Imperial Overlord »

In the book they do assign badass soldiers to help with more mundane threats and demons who react poorly to getting stabbed, but Will and the Elfstones are there to protect against less mundane foes since Allanon can't be in two places at once. Everything goes entirely to plan, of course. :wink:
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Re: The Shannara Chronicles

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Imperial Overlord wrote:In the book they do assign badass soldiers to help with more mundane threats and demons who react poorly to getting stabbed, but Will and the Elfstones are there to protect against less mundane foes since Allanon can't be in two places at once. Everything goes entirely to plan, of course. :wink:
Yeah, they assign the Redshirt brigade to protect them who get picked off one at a time.

The quest itself wasn't that long geographically. The largest bit was Wil going from Storlock way in the east to the West where the Elves are. That is one thing they changed in the show, IIRC Allannon found Wil at the Storlock camp already training to be a healer, Amberle had already left the West in was in a small village in the South not to far from Storlock. I don't mind that they changed that but I think the original would have been smoother than what they portrayed.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong

But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
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Re: The Shannara Chronicles

Post by Ralin »

Imperial Overlord wrote:In the book they do assign badass soldiers to help with more mundane threats and demons who react poorly to getting stabbed, but Will and the Elfstones are there to protect against less mundane foes since Allanon can't be in two places at once. Everything goes entirely to plan, of course. :wink:
I believe Simon was talking about stuff that happened in the first book though.
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Re: The Shannara Chronicles

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Ralin wrote:
I believe Simon was talking about stuff that happened in the first book though.

Fair enough. The early parts of the Sword of Shannara too closely parallels The Fellowship of the Ring (lets send some hobbits into the wilderness with no protection but a guy with a broken sword). The book's strengths are when Brooks breaks away and does his own stuff. As a side note, if Nazgul are coming for my ass, I'll totally take those Elfstones.
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Re: The Shannara Chronicles

Post by Lord Revan »

Lord Revan wrote:
Knife wrote:Nah, there was a one girl butt shot so far, a couple of the elven dresses are skimpy, but no real gratuitous naked bodies. In a couple of the scenes the acting is... could be better. But overall, they've made a good go at it and I think it's worth watching at this point. You should be able to pick up easily what's going on and they've put enough backstory in the dialogue and visuals so you get the general idea of what's going on. Give it a whorl.
saw it now and it seemed more like regular US TV at the moment, while there's some questionble acting and some of the clothes look too "modern" (for a lack of a better word) but overall it was enjoyble enough and I didn't feel like I was lost about what was going on even if I didn't know all the details.
just to clarify what I meant by this, the little nudity there was in the pilot seemed like it could almost pass the censors in US network TV.

as for the clothes at least the elven "running" clothes looked too much like modern computer designed sports gear (especially the fabric) rather something that a essentially late medevil tech base would make.

though these are more minor nitpicks then anything that really bothered me.
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Re: The Shannara Chronicles

Post by TithonusSyndrome »

I don't have a lot to say about this, but Allanon as a Welsh hipster is so wrong it's actually right. Bravo, MTV, albeit for all the wrong reasons.
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Re: The Shannara Chronicles

Post by xerex »

Knife wrote:. They changed quite a bit but overall not a bad thing. I'm having some problems with the change to the Dadga Mor being a Druid, kind of missed not having a good look at a castle Paranor.
I suspect theyre combining villains for continuity purposes.
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Re: The Shannara Chronicles

Post by FaxModem1 »

I just watched the two free episodes on youtube. It seemed okay, but I was more curious about what the rest of the world was like. Quick question, the contest at the beginning, for those who are going to become the Chosen. I had one question that made me wonder about one of the main characters. Is the elven princess using her privilege to know the course of the race while everyone else doesn't, or is there opportunity for all contestants to try and memorize their path to the finish line?

Because it kind of seems that she's a cheater who used her family connections to stack the race in her favor.
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Re: The Shannara Chronicles

Post by mr friendly guy »

I don't even remember the race in the books to be honest. I suspect this was something the television producers added to make the characters seem more round.
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