Is Santa Claus an elf?

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Is Santa an elf?

Yes
4
27%
No
4
27%
He's something not human, but not an elf either.
7
47%
 
Total votes: 15

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Is Santa Claus an elf?

Post by FaxModem1 »

NPR ran a story on this, discussing whether or not old St. Nick is an elf, or not.
Is Santa An Elf? Discuss
Updated December 24, 20156:49 PM ET
Published December 24, 20154:16 PM ET
Neda Ulaby - Square
NEDA ULABY
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In the 1823 poem "A Visit from St. Nicholas" Clement Clark Moore describes Santa as a "jolly old elf." Above, a 1918 illustration of the poem, by William Roger Snow.i
In the 1823 poem "A Visit from St. Nicholas" Clement Clark Moore describes Santa as a "jolly old elf." Above, a 1918 illustration of the poem, by William Roger Snow.
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Earlier this week, I tried to describe Santa in a story as an elf. But I ran into some serious opposition from my editor, Rose Friedman, who was convinced Santa was definitely not an elf.

"Think about every Christmas movie you've ever seen," she said. "It's always Santa and the elves. He's like twice their size."

I backed up my argument with literature — just look at the famous Clement Clark Moore poem, "A Visit From St Nicholas":

He had a broad face and a little round belly,
That shook when he laughed, like a bowlful of jelly.
He was chubby and plump, a right jolly old elf,
And I laughed when I saw him, in spite of myself ...
But Rose was not convinced, and, as usual, the editor won. Being a good loser, I posted about this disagreement on Facebook — but had no idea it would hit such a nerve. Below is a sampling of the dozens of responses I received (edited slightly for length and clarity). Feel free to weigh in with your take in the comments below.

"The Clement Clark Moore poem mentions him to be an elf, but I'll bet you that was just lazy writing for the rhyme. He does clearly exploit elven capital to bolster his own legend and ego."

"I think you both may be right. I think there are legends where Santa starts out as an elf. He gets an upgrade and becomes the head of the elves."

"I think he's an elf in a different incarnation, like Gandolf. Ultimately, we should let Santa self-identify. The real question is what do you do for second-reference?"

"Now, if you are talking about St. Nicholas, he is a bishop out of Turkey so a man. If you are talking about the character that came from the legend of the Saint he is both a man and an elf depending on which legend you believe in. So, yes, Neda, you are both right."

"He's not a f****** elf. He supervises the elves. Doesn't make him one."

"Any discussion of whether Santa is an elf or not is an unfortunate distraction from the larger issues of Santa's longtime worker exploitation and animal abuse. Much is made of the tremendous effort elves make to assemble fire engines and dolls under Santa's control, but little attention is to given to Santa's shabby production management practices. Why? Why?"

"He's certainly an elf enabler ..."

"As a Jew, I don't have an opinion on this. As an NPR donor, I don't know whether to be amused or slightly concerned. ; )"

"Santa employs elves, but is not one himself. Elves are small; he is big. (But has enough magic about him to fit down chimneys despite his BMI of 30 and insulin-dependent Type 2 diabetes caused by being sponsored for a century by Coca-Cola)."

"Expect a visit from the ombudsman Neda!"

What do you think? Let us know if you are on team Elf or Not-Elf. And either way — Merry Christmas!
So, is Santa an elf, or not?
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Re: Is Santa Claus an elf?

Post by Purple »

Yes and no. He is an elf. But not a regular elf like we know today. Santa is one of the old elves, the fey folk. The traditional old school fairies who liked to eat children and do horribly cruel things for no good reason. You may think him nice, giving presents to all the good children in the world. But that's what he wants you to think. It's all a part of his great master plan to turn our children violent, wicked and make them turn against our ways. Why do you think he only gives presents to "good" children? Music, video games, even toys. All made and designed to twist and corrupt our young in his image.

I am telling you. Santa is the reason why every new generation is worse than the last.
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Re: Is Santa Claus an elf?

Post by Batman »

Santa's an anthropomorphic personification. He exists because people believe he exists. He's as good (or evil) as we imagine him to be.
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Re: Is Santa Claus an elf?

Post by bilateralrope »

Are the Elves really elves ?

Every depiction of elves I can think of are tall. Except for Santa's Elves which are rather short. That doesn't seem to fit, unless Santa is making use of child labour.
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Re: Is Santa Claus an elf?

Post by Batman »

Actually D&D elves are shorter than humans and from what I can tell at least where Santa's Little Helpers are concerned the terms pixie and elf are used pretty much intechangeably.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
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Re: Is Santa Claus an elf?

Post by Purple »

bilateralrope wrote:Are the Elves really elves ?

Every depiction of elves I can think of are tall. Except for Santa's Elves which are rather short. That doesn't seem to fit, unless Santa is making use of child labour.
Ever wondered what happens to all the children who go missing one day and are newer found?
It has become clear to me in the previous days that any attempts at reconciliation and explanation with the community here has failed. I have tried my best. I really have. I pored my heart out trying. But it was all for nothing.

You win. There, I have said it.

Now there is only one thing left to do. Let us see if I can sum up the strength needed to end things once and for all.
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Re: Is Santa Claus an elf?

Post by Borgholio »

Yeah he's always been referred to as an Elf in the old literature. The fact he appears to be twice their size is because he was crafted by the same magic that created the Uruk-hai...who are also orcs, but about twice their size.
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Re: Is Santa Claus an elf?

Post by Solauren »

Old Fey Folk Elf, but probably with Human ancestory.

He's also a speedster from DC. He's got to have the Speedforce.
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Re: Is Santa Claus an elf?

Post by Batman »

Not necessarily. The sleigh could merely be FTL capable.
Did I just use the terms 'merely' and 'FTL' in the same sentence?

Oh, wait, I'm from DC. To me that's no big deal.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
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Re: Is Santa Claus an elf?

Post by The Romulan Republic »

He's a Time Lord. He regenerates into different forms, some elf and some human, he distorts time to travel around the world in one night, and his sack is bigger on the inside. :D
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Re: Is Santa Claus an elf?

Post by Broomstick »

The problem with defining "elf" is that the definition changes depending on where and when you are. Sometimes they're human sized, sometimes they're larger, and sometimes they're smaller. They get conflated with fairies a lot, which only adds to the confusion, because fairies might be conflated with the likes of the Irish Tuatha de Danaan which were usually depicted human-sized or larger or in Germany with dwarves which, as the name implies where usually shorter than humans, and from Shakespearean England onward "fairy" or "elf" might be insect-sized like Disney's Tinkerbell.

This sort of thing might be why quite a few modern fantasy writers depict "the fey" as ranging in size from butterfly to giant, with the implication that there are different species within the larger grouping (although species may not be the right word, either). The human or near-human sized ones tend to be the ones in charge.

So... Santa's helper elves are clearly some sort of elf, perhaps a "typical" elf. Santa himself is either a human that wound up in Elfland with considerable influence and a job to do, essentially adopted by the elves or a "naturalized" citizen of a fey group or nation, or he, too, is an elf but of a different sort. It's also possible he's a changeling, half human, half elf.

There seem to be a number of tales of a human being becoming Santa Claus.

And for an additional thing in the mix - there's the notion that Santa is a benign form of Odin (who could be quite nasty as times) so he's really a god, which would explain things like being in charge of the elves, flying reindeer, and time manipulation.

Conclusion: status is ambiguous and does not fit into neat human categories.
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Re: Is Santa Claus an elf?

Post by Purple »

The only thing we can be certain off is that he is evil. And that every day his worships labor to produce music that makes teenagers rebellious, video games and toys that turn our children violent and against god and proper values and generally strives to subvert all the good work parents are doing to bring their children up properly as mini copies of them self.
It has become clear to me in the previous days that any attempts at reconciliation and explanation with the community here has failed. I have tried my best. I really have. I pored my heart out trying. But it was all for nothing.

You win. There, I have said it.

Now there is only one thing left to do. Let us see if I can sum up the strength needed to end things once and for all.
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Re: Is Santa Claus an elf?

Post by LadyTevar »

New jobs for Old Gods, as T. Prtachett puts it. There are stories of yule-tide gift givers in every European nation -- Santa Claus/St. Nicholas is just the latest name for that entity to asume. So, it could be said that the role of Santa is just a mantle, a mask wore every Yule-tide by a chosen individual, who then has to complete the tasks the mantle brings with it.
You might know this idea as "The Santa Clause". :grin:
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Re: Is Santa Claus an elf?

Post by Zeropoint »

Yes and no. He is an elf. But not a regular elf like we know today. Santa is one of the old elves, the fey folk.
I was thinking about this the other day . . . it implies that an iron grate in the chimney would probably keep him out.

I voted for "not an elf as we normally think of them, but not a human, either". At least, not pure human . . . not any more. You could spin a good story around the actual Nicholas of Myra, ascended into something a bit beyond mortality. I also like the idea of an old god with a new job: Santa Claus may not get a lot of belief (well, from adults) but he certainly gets of a lot of what could be considered a form of worship.
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Re: Is Santa Claus an elf?

Post by Enigma »

He's Santa to the good kids and Krampus to the bad. He purposely has slave elf labor create passable forgeries of popular children's toys so he can ensnare the impressionable minds in order to create an army for his new world order.
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Re: Is Santa Claus an elf?

Post by Zeropoint »

See, I figured the elves made perfect replicas of toys because the fey tend to be obsessive-compulsive about things. You know, Santa says something like "Come on, the kids aren't going to care if the UPC on the package isn't right, and no one is ever going to ring this up at a cash register. Just make up some random numbers."

And then the elves just stare at him, until he finally gives in.
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Re: Is Santa Claus an elf?

Post by Darth Nostril »

Zeropoint wrote:
Yes and no. He is an elf. But not a regular elf like we know today. Santa is one of the old elves, the fey folk.
I was thinking about this the other day . . . it implies that an iron grate in the chimney would probably keep him out.
Santa is a human working with the fey because he can go where they cannot.

Hmmm brings new light to changelings, human babies exchanged for fey children. The fey folk need humans to interact with the human world with its prevalence of iron.
Take them young enough and they know of no other life but serving the fey. But in doing so they bring happiness to untold others.
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Re: Is Santa Claus an elf?

Post by Purple »

Darth Nostril wrote:Take them young enough and they know of no other life but serving the fey. But in doing so they bring happiness to untold others.
That's just a marketing ploy to get the humans to give up their children on the off chance that they catch the fey in the act of kidnapping. Fact is it's just to produce brainwashing agents to turn young people evil.
It has become clear to me in the previous days that any attempts at reconciliation and explanation with the community here has failed. I have tried my best. I really have. I pored my heart out trying. But it was all for nothing.

You win. There, I have said it.

Now there is only one thing left to do. Let us see if I can sum up the strength needed to end things once and for all.
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Re: Is Santa Claus an elf?

Post by Guardsman Bass »

Santa Claus is a small-d deity, like a god of gift-giving, celebration, and the season - he's like a family-friendly, tame version of Dionysius crossed with Odin. That also explains why the Elves put so much work into making toys for him - to them, he's essentially a God-King whom they worship.
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Re: Is Santa Claus an elf?

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Except nobody worships Santa. But otherwise, that fits pretty well.

Edit: Although people do believe in him. And I suppose you could treat laying out treats for him as a form of sacrifice.
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Re: Is Santa Claus an elf?

Post by libertyjim »

I've always kinda thought of him as literally Odin. He was pretty nasty during Norse Mythology's prime time period but that was a long time ago. He's modernised since then.
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Re: Is Santa Claus an elf?

Post by The Romulan Republic »

If you've read the Dresden Files series of fantasy novels, that's heavily implied if not outright confirmed to be the case, I believe. He also runs a private security/mercenary firm, because its that kind of series.
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Re: Is Santa Claus an elf?

Post by Me2005 »

bilateralrope wrote:Are the Elves really elves ?

Every depiction of elves I can think of are tall. Except for Santa's Elves which are rather short. That doesn't seem to fit, unless Santa is making use of child labour.
Grimm's Elves are generally short. Santa's are probably of that sort.

The poem that ascribes most of the attributes we know Santa for calls him "A right jolly old Elf," and some depictions show him shorter than a human but taller than worker-elves. Personally, I feel that description is more of his features and less of his race, so I consider him a human.
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