Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find them trailer released.

[The Romulan Republic]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWXUQq7OsKQ

Well, our first trailer for the first Harry Potter film without Harry is out.

I don't like the image at 38 seconds in. Completely wrong. I don't recall pentacles/pentagrams ever being a thing in Harry Potter magic (and its also fuel for the Harry Potter is Satanist crowd). It looks like something out of a different series, like The Dresden Files or Buffy. It honestly gives me a "bad fanfic" vibe.

It might seem like a little thing, but it irritates me. But its just one scene and I don't know the context.

Also, the tone is a bit too dark, visually. I like a bit of flash and colour. Why is their an apparent trend of making films look dark and washed out these days?

And I'm disappointed that we didn't see more locations in this teaser. I'm hoping for a film that was international in scope. Wizarding America is all very well, but I'd like to see more than just that.

However, I'm willing to wait for more information before judging the film too harshly. And at least the casting seems okay.

[Iroscato]

Well, it looks alright. It's still almost a year away from release, so that's probably the bulk of the shots they've finished so far. I'm curious to see an expansion of the HP universe, though I always greatly preferred the books over the films.

[The Romulan Republic]

I too did not care for a lot of the films (the only ones I'd even tentatively rank above mediocre, if I'm feeling generous, are Goblet of Fire and Deathly Hallows Part II).

But their is the distinction that this one actually has Rowling as a screenwriter. Though I'm a bit nervous about that, because to my knowledge its the first time she's written a screenplay. And Rowling screwed up too on occasion.

And I feel the same way about seeing the universe enlarged. The biggest appeal this film has for me might be that it is not set in Britain or the late 20th. Century and has a premise that lends itself to adventures all over the world.

[Crazedwraith]

First trailer so I guess it has to be like this but he general tone that it's epic and has to remind you its more Harry Potter struck a bad note with me. The apparent plot that Newt brings magical creatures to america, strikes me as fun and whimsical but the trailer looks and sounds more like it should be DH part iii or something.

Maybe I'm just trailer out, there seems to be some many comic and sci-fi trailers out recently.

[Starglider]

Well, our first trailer for the first Harry Potter film without Harry is out.
I don't like the image at 38 seconds in. Completely wrong.

This is why I always imagine your posts being read in a quavering whiny agnsty teen voice. Everything always sucks and is awful and is ruined forever.

I don't recall pentacles/pentagrams ever being a thing in Harry Potter magic (and its also fuel for the Harry Potter is Satanist crowd). It looks like something out of a different series, like The Dresden Files or Buffy. It honestly gives me a "bad fanfic" vibe.

It's a different continent in a different century with a magical tradition that probably ran from the English authorities in the 17th/18th century and has a mythology connected to the Salem witchcraft trials etc. Of course the cultural trappings should feel significantly different. If the magic itself looks and works the same way then it's clearly the same universe.

[LadyTevar]

It's interesting that they've set it in the Roaring 20s America.

[The Romulan Republic]

Well, our first trailer for the first Harry Potter film without Harry is out.
I don't like the image at 38 seconds in. Completely wrong.

This is why I always imagine your posts being read in a quavering whiny agnsty teen voice. Everything always sucks and is awful and is ruined forever.

I did not say that. Their is no reasonable interpretation of what I wrote that makes this anything other than hyperbole at best or a lie at worst.

I criticized a few things I didn't like while acknowledging that I don't know the full context, noted some things I do like, and said that I'm not going to judge the film based on just this trailer. Which is... the opposite of what you made up and insulted me over.

You also cherry picked one small part of my post, out of context, that makes it appear more uniformly negative than it is.

Believe me, I've seen plenty of knee-jerk fan whining, and its a lot worse than what I posted.

If you have a grudge against me over some other threads, that has nothing to do with this, and is no excuse to misrepresent what I am saying here. And do you mind not lying about what I posted? If not for the sake of basic decency, then for the sake of not making yourself look like a jackass?

It's a different continent in a different century with a magical tradition that probably ran from the English authorities in the 17th/18th century and has a mythology connected to the Salem witchcraft trials etc. Of course the cultural trappings should feel significantly different.

That sounds reasonable to an extent.

However, its an image which manages to both be generic and carry certain connotations that don't really fit the Harry Potter franchise as previously depicted.

Could it work in context? Maybe. Which I already basically acknowledged.

If the magic itself looks and works the same way then it's clearly the same universe.

Its a bit more complicated than that, of course, but basically yes.

[The Romulan Republic]

It's interesting that they've set it in the Roaring 20s America.

Yes.

The impression I got from this film, between the premise and the setting, is something along the lines of "King Kong with wizards". Not sure if that's how it'll play out, but I can hope.

[biostem]

I realize this is being very nitpicky, but it just bugs me to no end that, given just what kind of things magic can accomplish in this setting, that wizards can get away with such ridiculously irresponsible acts involving magic, and that there are seemingly little if any organizations in place to prevent this kind of stuff. I man, it's a good thing that no one just uses one of those portal/fireplace/shoe spell thingies to unleash tons and tons of monsters/dementers/magical animals on a city they don't like...

[The Romulan Republic]

Actually, that sort of stuff does happen quite a bit in the series- its just that probably the single biggest function of the Ministry of Magic (or whatever its counterpart is in other countries like America) is covering that stuff up.

Edit: They do so through a combination of regulation, prosecuting offenders of the Statute of Secrecy, anti-Muggle/concealment spells on stuff like Hogwarts, and mass mind wiping (that last one in particular raises some serious ethical issues).

[Gandalf]

When you look at their ability (and willingness) to mindrape people en masse, as well as their own Room 101 in the form of Azkaban prison, the Ministry of Magic is essentially presiding over a dystopian hellhole.

[The Romulan Republic]

The Ministry was corrupt (and incompetent) even before Voldemort took over.

Of course, its possible America's magical government isn't quite as shitty, but the secrecy thing seems to be more or less universally agreed on. The problem is, there's no easy way out of it, because if they undid it suddenly, it would be a chaotic clusterfuck beyond belief.

I mean, can you imagine the global response?

[Lord Revan]

I wonder if it's the reason why the obviously corrupt and incompentent Ministry of Magic is allowed to remain as people are too scared of the removal the secrecy rule that conservatives have near absolute control in the wizarding world and thus reforms are near (if not outright) impossible to impliment.

[Gandalf]

The Ministry was corrupt (and incompetent) even before Voldemort took over.

Of course Azkaban and mass brainwashing aren't Voldemort things. They're the status quo. That's what makes it all so troubling.

I wonder if it's the reason why the obviously corrupt and incompentent Ministry of Magic is allowed to remain as people are too scared of the removal the secrecy rule that conservatives have near absolute control in the wizarding world and thus reforms are near (if not outright) impossible to impliment.

Over the course of the books, does anyone ever bring up some sort of integration with the proles muggles?

[LaCroix]

So the wizarding US flag has only 30 stars... I wonder if the southern states managed to secede in their world, or if they count states differently...

[The Romulan Republic]

So the wizarding US flag has only 30 stars... I wonder if the southern states managed to secede in their world, or if they count states differently...

I don't have an exact quote, but as I recall, Rowling has been quoted talking about how Muggle and wizard wars are often interconnected, so its entirely possible that their was a wizarding counterpart to the American Civil War. The books, after all, heavily imply that the Grindelwald war was the wizarding counterpart of World War II (Grindelwald was a dark wizard who rose to power in continental Europe, held some racist views, and was defeated in 1945).

The Ministry was corrupt (and incompetent) even before Voldemort took over.

Of course Azkaban and mass brainwashing aren't Voldemort things. They're the status quo. That's what makes it all so troubling.

I wonder if it's the reason why the obviously corrupt and incompentent Ministry of Magic is allowed to remain as people are too scared of the removal the secrecy rule that conservatives have near absolute control in the wizarding world and thus reforms are near (if not outright) impossible to impliment.

Over the course of the books, does anyone ever bring up some sort of integration with the proles muggles?

Not really. The closest they generally come is people who feel Muggle born wizards and their families should be tolerated, and that Muggles shouldn't be tortured or killed for no reason. Though we do have Arthur Weasley (who borderline-illegally tinkers with Muggle technology as a hobby) and the Muggle Studies course at Hogwarts (the Muggle Studies teacher is offed in book seven by Voldemort for her pro-Muggle political views).

Their is some contact between the upper levels of government (at the very least, the Muggle PM knows about magic), but it isn't very in-depth. Basically amounts to the Minister for Magic giving his Muggle counterpart a heads up about things he can't really do anything about when something major happens, and providing a wizard bodyguard for him when Voldemort came back. Though as I recall they did cooperate a bit on the hunt for Sirius Black (he was listed as wanted in the Muggle world, though to maintain the cover they claimed he was just a nut with a gun, which is rather downplaying the threat).

[Crazedwraith]

When you look at their ability (and willingness) to mindrape people en masse, as well as their own Room 101 in the form of Azkaban prison, the Ministry of Magic is essentially presiding over a dystopian hellhole.

Random questions. Do the MIB's neuralisers produce this same reaction in you?

[The Romulan Republic]

I wonder if it's the reason why the obviously corrupt and incompentent Ministry of Magic is allowed to remain as people are too scared of the removal the secrecy rule that conservatives have near absolute control in the wizarding world and thus reforms are near (if not outright) impossible to impliment.

I don't know. Maybe. Repealing or reforming the Statute of Secrecy doesn't seem to be a real issue even. Its simply not even on the radar, even for the reformers (although I wouldn't be terribly surprised if a faction in favour of doing so appears post-Voldemort). Although Voldemort, while not openly ending it, didn't seem to give a shit about preserving it, given that he ordered large scale attacks on Muggles. He was probably too arrogant and bigoted to think Muggles might be a real threat.

This wasn't always the case though. As I recall, Grindlewald and young Dumbledore wanted to abolish it, and have Muggles ruled by wizards.

Essentially, I would argue that late 20th. Century Wizarding Britain has three significant informal political factions:

1. Pure Blood Radicals. Support subjugation or killing of Muggles/Muggleborns, and aren't too fond of other non-wizarding creatures either. Actively want to make their society a more intolerant place. Defacto leader: Voldemort, Lucius Malfoy while Voldemort was incommunicado. Grindelwald and young Dumbledore were a variant who wanted to rule the Muggles "For the Greater Good".

2. Conservatives/traditionalists. Tend to favour wizards/pure blood wizards, but more in a "preserve the status quo" way than a full-on "ethnic cleansing" way. Basically just want to keep things going as they are, by the looks of things. Defacto leader: Cornelius Fudge, maybe Scrimgeour after he replaced Fudge.

3. Reformers. Tend to support greater tolerance and reforms of the justice system, but not to the point of actually openly coexisting with Muggles and ending the mass mind control (though at least some of them are prepared to boot the Dementors from Azkaban). Defacto leader: Albus Dumbledore, Kingsley Shacklebolt towards the end of the series.

[The Romulan Republic]

I'd like to add that the politics of the setting, outside of the war with Voldemort, is something I really wish had been developed more.

I'm really interested in knowing more about political differences between America and Britain too. Is blood purity/bigotry the main issue their too, or is it something else? How do the Justice Systems compare in terms of the level of individual rights?

[Agent Fisher]

How do the Justice Systems compare in terms of the level of individual rights?

We know in Wizard Britain that individual rights are a fucking joke for the justice system. Chamber of Secrets had Fudge detain Hagrid and ship him off to Azkaban so they 'could be seen doing something'. Azkaban, the fucking hellhole prison of the Wizarding World. No trail, no due process, just alright, here you go, off to prison. Sirius Black, heir to a Pureblood house, shipped off to Azkaban with no trail, simply because everyone 'knew' that he was a dark wizard.

[The Romulan Republic]

Yeah, I know.

What I'm wondering is how Wizarding America (or other nations for that matter) compare? Is Britain's approach standard? Or worse, unusually progressive by the standards of their world? Or have other countries done better?

Edit: To be fair, I think the Sirius Black thing was atypical. It was done immediately following the first war with Voldemort, when the government had resorted to unusually harsh measure to defeat Voldemort. Under normal circumstances, I'm prepared to be he would have been tried (and without Pettigrew being located, likely convicted, because let's be fair- the evidence was pretty strong).

[Crazedwraith]

Sirius Black's case is weird. He claims he never had a trail. But Fudge claims there were eyewitnesses that testified. And Dumbledore says he gave evidence on the matter that Sirius had been the Potter's secret keeper. So there was something at least. A hearing, a show trail that Sirius wasn't present for.... But yes, still very dubiously done.

Regardless, how did this devolve so quickly from 'yay trailer' to the same old worldbuilding complaints?

[The Romulan Republic]

biostem brought up the issue of wizards abusing their power and the effects, based on the trailer. Which started off a conversation about the Statute of Secrecy, and from their the general political issues of the Wizarding World.

But to me, a main part of the appeal for this film is that it could develop the larger Wizarding World more beyond Britain.

Edit: As to Black's trial, their was obviously an investigation of some kind, but apparently he never had a chance to defend himself before the Wizengamot. Basically, they took statements and then Crouch chucked him in Azkaban on his own authority or something like that.

[Crazedwraith]

Yes, that was rhetorical question really.

I can understand the desire for more world building, but I think it'd be hard to do without bring the film's plot to a standstill to accomplish it. It's supposed to be Newt's story, not the textbook itself But I do hope they manage a good balance between plot and worldbuilding and don't neglect either.

[The Romulan Republic]

World building doesn't have to get in the way. Its just their, in the background. As long as its detailed and consistent, we're good.